II Titanic Mini Mafia - Page 2

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 02:16 GMT

#346

On December 10 2013 09:55 Corazon wrote:
I caught up to the thread and took notes. I must go for an hour and then I will be back with Xatalos case.

I dunno kinda like to believe when people give time frames.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 02:20 GMT

#349

Sidesprang my aprehension isn't with you talking about cora it's the way you have gone about it. It isn't really bringing up new points that haven't been talked about, it is a summary of things that have been said. You spent pretty much 1/3 of your post on him to come to the conclusion "I will watch him"! That is not a genuine approach to a view on a player.

You then point out exactly what the last page or two was about in regards to spammers, everyone had already mentioned it, it isn't a contribution at all.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:05 GMT

#352

I understand your reasoning but I'd like to question your point 3. Why would scum jump on a bandwagon within the first page of the game? By your own logic votes and accusations don't really mean anything at the start of the game so why do you think it is a scum tactic to further aggression onto a person? Like you say that is quite clearly not proper aggression if that person is then willing to switch their votes later on, so why is it contributing to a 1/3 of your case points?

Why, if you say so many times, that votes are meaningless at the start of the game have you thrown out a vote only 6ish hours into the game?

-----------------------------

I also would like your opinions on other people within the game too. What do you think of artanis' posting style so far? Do you think the points I wrote here are valid? :

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 10 2013 08:01 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:

On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:

On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.

That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch

Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.

So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.

The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.

I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.

In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it.

This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie

I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information.

On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:
Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more?

On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.

Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit.

Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is?

I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further.

Show nested quote +

Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question.

_____________________________

In regards to the point that you made about cora, I don't think he's "putting himself out there" like you suggest, he said that he couldn't dedicate some time towards the game but would still post actively and got picked up on it and was like OMGNUUWRONGRAWRRR!!!!!! and then didn't discuss why with people further or indicate that he had reads on other people because of what happened. He left the thread and then returned when people started mentioning Xatalos and piggybacked upon that with no new reasoning other than what people had said before. He mentions how people in the thread were piggybacking previously (me, etc.) and had qualms with them but then does the same thing here:

Show nested quote +

This is contradictary with his previous approach of disliking people that piggybacking and is essentially +1ing another players points.

Take this in B2B for example, people had a bad read on him and he DISCUSSED why it was bad:

Show nested quote +

He mentions WHY the case was bad etc etc, discusses it and outlines why he thinks it was bad croming from X player. Where is that here? It was a dissmissal of a case from me and a sheep onto townish consesus Xatalos.

__________________________________________

I don't like how these things are most definitely brushed off for simplicity that "I don't think scum do this" when there is a body of evidence that suggests a player does not play like this. Vote Cora for best lynch.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:34 GMT

#357

On December 10 2013 12:15 Pandain wrote:
Quick quedtion Holy do you think early game votes are pretty meaningless as well

What possible use is this to any conversation present in this game?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:40 GMT

#359

Also, cora, your opinion on meaningless votes was from THIS GAME. I don't see how you can shun it off as a non-valid point. You are doing something contradictary to an already established mindset only a few hours ago.

On December 10 2013 06:53 Corazon wrote:
Lol can I go one game without being the first one voted.

Do you guys really think I'm more scummy at this point than Spag and Slam? I'm being open and honest with all of you. I'm not hiding anything. I've always tried to be genuine and not put up façades or wear masks. I'm telling you that I was going to be busy and I told you how I felt coming into this game. If you guys want to call me scum for that, go ahead. But just know that it is really silly to call me scum when Slam and Spag made one post and peaced out. Spag had to be coerced back into the thread and Slam still hasn't come back.

Plutarch wasn't trying to prod me for discussion; he was trying to twist my words and call me scum. Holyflare is just piggybacking off of everyone else's arguments to take town credit.

If you guys would look into the game, you would see that I am far from the scummiest player here. Also, it is good to know that you are all down for pressure voting so now I don't have to take your votes seriously until very close to the deadline. Sweet.

I asked for your opinion on people and asked you to further elaborate on artanis based on what i've said, this is how I play mafia, there is no need whatsoever to. I didn't intend for you to only comment on him.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:42 GMT

#360

no need whatsoever to get sarcastic or annoyed*

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:45 GMT

#362

I want to understand more about artanis. Why do you think it is confirmation biased compared to the alternative assumption of being correct? What mindset could someone have to discuss one person based on meta but then ignore another person based on meta without discussion?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:47 GMT

#365

I never talked about any possibility of relationships based on unflipped players thank you.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 03:49 GMT

#367

Now, if you would kindly answer my previous question without the "confirmation biased" spiel.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 04:39 GMT

#394

On December 10 2013 13:38 bumatlarge wrote:

Show nested quote +

The best scum hunters aren't good early. Talkative scum have to be brilliant to not make mistakes early. They would only benefit if they are a lot quicker/smarter then us. I'd like I not think that.

I disagree.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 04:52 GMT

#401

Well I totally hit post instead of preview.

I disagree. This is a game of information, that information is gathered by lynching people. Wagons formed, wagons abandoned, interactions etc etc. What benefit do we have to determining the alignment of other players when we lynch into a pool of inactive players? There are vig's for things like that. The entire mention of lynching into lurkers promotes a stability to the players that can post the bare minimum as they won't get lynched, while we still gather nothing.

I find it odd that, rather than wait to get to a pc and contribute, bumatlarge defaults to phone posting and has intent to guide people on how to perform in this game, talking about policy and strategy rather than waiting and contributing on things that have happened. Phone's aren't limited to policy talk, yet he has neglected to give any insight into what he thinks.

__________________________

LSB, I likez your style. Want to wait for his replies though.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 05:04 GMT

#405

On December 10 2013 13:57 bumatlarge wrote:
Facts>Analysis>information.

Information is subjectively valued. In standard setups, information is massively overshadowed by conclusions drawn from all information. Information is a too insubstantial this early.

I'd be more then happy to keep filling up the thread with this gentleman talk if you'll oblige.

1) What benefit to our fact and analysis tracking does talking about policy have?
2) What facts do we retrieve from lynching a lurker over someone that is actively participating?

I think you are misreading information as information. Analysis and facts are made from information that we gather, what analsyis can we create from lynching off a "modkillable" player compared to the wealth of analsysis that can be created from a scummy, active player.

_________________

Either way, I would much rather you talk about people in this game than further this discussion. What have you gathered so far? Were you able to fully catch up on your phone?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 06:52 GMT

#430

On December 10 2013 15:36 xigxag wrote:

Show nested quote +

I wanted this in another post.

A message to Holyflare and Xatalos: do not direct vig shots which you neither know exist nor know how to direct. You have both entered onto my radar for your directives and, to any vigis which may exist please do not listen to the above named posters. I have an early town read on kush and am interested in Alak but do not believe either is a good shot at this time in the game.

Have you even read the game? Vig's are guarenteed in the setup and it's not "directing" vig shots. Threat of vig shot = threat of dying and if they are town they will stop trolling/step it up as I assume people enter this game to win. I think you're mistaking direction with pressure.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 07:15 GMT

#442

So, xigxag is there any reason your first entry into the game is used to justify a kush read?

Compare the quote you just linked:

On September 21 2013 12:39 kushm4sta wrote:

Show nested quote +

how the fuck do i make a case on someone when it's like an hour into the game??

to this from this game:

On December 10 2013 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:

Show nested quote +

dude you need to chillax. it's like hours into the game.

Where is the difference apart from the complete lack of anything this game? He has like 4 posts and they all distinguish nada. It is impossible to get a "town read" on anyone with that lack of content so to enter the thread as that being the only information you bring to the table is something that is highly questionable. Now as someone who was scum and spammed and wrote things like that do you not think one would evolve scum play to avoid the things that people saw as questionable (in this case the spam from noir)?

I don't like how you have addressed Xatalos and cora - the main contention points in this thread as a side note, talking about vig's and telling him to cool down. Was there a reason you decided to do that rather than elaborate on things that have been said?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 07:29 GMT

#447

So, then what do you think on the points that I/LSB raised on sidesprang's introduction to the thread?

Also, just because they are not good lynches does not mean you can't elaborate on your reads on them, especially as they were both mentioned on your entry and are part of current events. You've given the information now so why was it that it needed to be dug for rather than your free kush town read and your need to look at alak more read?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 07:40 GMT

#461

On December 10 2013 16:32 xigxag wrote:

Show nested quote +

I found them unimportant. Noting I had to say had been unsaid by the thread on the subjects of those two players. Things I had to say on Kush had been left unsaid.

So you found the two players who have the most votes in the game at the moment unimportant to comment on at all? Are you just intentionally wanting to play oblivious to current events or what?

You also mention in your entry post that Slam was "needed to be looked at more" and now you discredit that he could actually be scum too? Why is lynching slam not an attempt to lynch scum?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 07:42 GMT

#464

It was rhetoric, I know what it meant

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 07:51 GMT

#469

I'm not doing any suggesting, I'm questioning your thought process. Nothing that you just stated in regards to Xant and Cora has been said in the thread at all so I don't think you understand my confusion. To downplay something as "embarrassing" when someone is trying to discern information from someone else is funny though.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 07:59 GMT

#474

On December 10 2013 16:53 xigxag wrote:

Show nested quote +

LSB already said it: both talky muchy neither swingy soony. Clear? That is all which was useful that I had to say about them.

So why do you insinuate that you don't talk about anything unless it is vital to the thread that hasn't been said already but then you raise points about slam that he shouldn't be lynched and needs to be looked at. Why Slam over anyone else and how does that fit into this playstyle that you have created for yourself? He has been talked about quite a bit after all.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30775 Posts

December 10 2013 08:52 GMT

#494

I think you're mistaking tossing shit for discerning what you were thinking. Glad somebody got all that information out of you though

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