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Yes, I know I'm playing like crap for the past 72 hrs.
OK, you are biased against Onegu the other way; maybe what I am interpreting and positive signs are actually null.
What do you make of Onegu followups with me? I mean, of course either alignment will follow up a case; but he actually almost seems too excited to provide "evidence" to support his thoughts - to be faking it.
As in, hes not harping on the same point and banging the same drum. Hes readjusting his position as I readjust mine.
I just find in general to be a tell more applicable to town, as scum usually just want to discredit so are happy the point is being discussed in the first place.
Thoughts?
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On November 25 2013 12:21 Mocsta wrote:
Yes, I know I'm playing like crap for the past 72 hrs.
OK, you are biased against Onegu the other way; maybe what I am interpreting and positive signs are actually null.
What do you make of Onegu followups with me? I mean, of course either alignment will follow up a case; but he actually almost seems too excited to provide "evidence" to support his thoughts - to be faking it.
As in, hes not harping on the same point and banging the same drum. Hes readjusting his position as I readjust mine.
I just find in general to be a tell more applicable to town, as scum usually just want to discredit so are happy the point is being discussed in the first place.
Thoughts?
Why did it take 119 hours for Onegu to finally be cooperative? It's only after we've poked and prodded him to death that he finally decided to talk.
Scum Onegu could see that town JJD was getting lynched and just used it as an opportunity to score free town cred while discussion wasn't really going anywhere?
When it comes down to it, his shitty vote was still on you. You know being right too much about which wagon to choose is a scum tell as well?
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Corazon, I think Onegu is town.
After a filter dive this post *really* sticks out to me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=38#756
Below are highlights to re enforce my point:
On November 22 2013 04:33 Onegu wrote:
Rean
-When responding to the wishy washy post he made being called out gives another wishy washy post saying Im very scummy but I could just be stupid, then says I am a distraction.
-Says if Aqua flips town Im a good lynch the next day. How are me and Aqua connected how am I not a good lynch reguardless of aquas flip
JarJarDrinks
-Agree with almost all of his thoughts, we think almost the same things
-Defends me to sciberia
Rayn
-Calls out posts not needed to be called out like aqua not voteing his top scum read
-Rayn calling me scum but not looking at past mini games, his meta reads on me are so bad
-Doesnt look like he believes his case on aqua, harping the same point over and over when that point isnt scummy --> Oriignally Onegu "felt" Rayn was scummy, this is most likely why
-The post where rayn calls out aqua for his spicydinosaur post was really good --> This is the turning point where he considers Rayn town, and then changes his perspective on people that still think Rayn is scummy
-Then he somewhat defemds me, but uses correct meta
-Unless is trying to do what I did in WC as scum which I dont see he really is town
-Rayn saying those are scumclaims, wrong, but from a town rayn
Mocsta
-Randomly flips his read on me but its for a BS reason as the reason he gives I am perfectly capable of doing as scum
-Not sure how he thinks my atk on marv could be different if I was scum this game and atkd him
-Dont like his atk on rayn.
Sciberia
-Makes a case on me when everyone elae was calling me scummy but not doing anything about it \townie
-His defense of aquas spicydino post looks bad
-His tunnel on me still looks good though
-Calls out Reans wishy washy post on me being scummy but not likeing my wagon\ town poimts
-Continues to call me scum even though thread thoughts habe somewhat changed and everything going on around him\ townie
-His case on mocsta is ok but not greadt
These "highlights" mainly relate to happenings around Onegu. His filter also indicates he originally had a scum gutfeel on rayn and then suddenly changed his mind. I believe the development is within this list post.
The importance is how he gives credit to people treating him as a suspect/town; its very self-centered/focus approach which I find to be extremely indicative of a townie mindset.
I know scum are always looking for who supports them, and who doesn't; but they typically evaluate all information (as they have the knowledge advantage). Whereas, this is written in a selfish/C.B. manner that I thinks aligns with town (i.e. blinkers are on)
Its obvious he is clearly evaluating his thread presence and monitoring how people respond to him based on thread presence (e.g sciberbia). Again, scum monitor this too; but I don't think they write about how every single person treats them.
Of note as well JJD "thinks almost the same things... <as I do>"
Look how he takes offense to Rean thinking Onegu should be flipped if Aqua is town.
If Onegu was scum, I would expect a discredit here instead of observation. *I find this to be very townie too*
Whether my interpretations align with Onegu doesnt matter (ultimately we are different people that think differently)
What is essential, is that how he is structuring his thoughts is similar to me -- and I know I am town and also treating the game in that type of self-centered way.
Corazon, I appreciate the effort that went into that case; however, I think in this instance you are incorrect.
If Onegu is scum I will take back all I have said about being useless; because after looking throught he above I just can't swallow him being scum.
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On November 23 2013 18:04 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game? Why is this relevant? My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer: (A) you won't believe me; (B) you will still think I am scummy. Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch. You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution. I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles. I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game. In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town. I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch. Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that. Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid. You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply. I was stating that the same response in is my filter. You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia. Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs? I actually believe you : / need to think if that is something you would say as scum though.
This post makes me feel *REALLY* good about Bereft.
Following from this discussion:
On November 24 2013 13:12 Bereft wrote:*confident, not confidant i'm not saying this is damning, but this is quite interesting... mocsta to onegu: Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game? Why is this relevant? My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer: (A) you won't believe me; (B) you will still think I am scummy. Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch. You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution. I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles. I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game. In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town. I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch. Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that. Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid. You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply. I was stating that the same response in is my filter. You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia. Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs? mocsta to artanis in marv's game: Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 09:53 Mocsta wrote:
Running behind schedule, works a bitch today and Im only up to p124.
Things I want to say before deadline.
(1) Artanis: You are tunneled.
Your issues with me are because I do not play the game the same way you choose to.
That is not an indicator of scum. Everyone that has played with me many times realises this is how I play town.
Further, all your reads on other players hinge upon their thought process on me. You should know association reads are terribad.
You are obsessed beyond reason.
Unfortunately, the way you walk people through your mindset makes me lean town.
You need to drop this; or if you can't, fine -- Accept there are other players in the game that *must* be scum and look there.
Look reading filters is clearly not-alignment indicative. Some ppl just love to do it.
But, that Bereft was reading the filter in consideration of this back/forth with Onegu is pretty surprising if scum.
To me it indicates that I said something that triggered Bereft to think I am scummy enough to warrant a filter dive in a previous game. Hence the fixation on that phrasing. To me this is *very townie*
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So Mocsta, does that mean all of the scum (in your opinion) is in Cheinzu/Slam/HF/sciberia?
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Corazon
You are correct.
I'm completely 50/50 on holy. He loves to play protown scum, whereas here he is really brazen. Unless he's trying to actively adjust his meta I'm. It sure why he would play this was as scum -- even with time restraints. Plus self confirming so I'm. It trying to put time into him.
I'm reading scibs with a fine tooth now. I can't help feel his early game was to shit the thread. It's been a consistent feeling of mine all game for each reread. Ohh well more to go.
How does what I write about onegu influence your scum read?
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Scibs
Is definitely in my good books.
I realise now that my issues with him have been frequency of posting; however, when his thoughts are read as a sequence (i.e. filter) its damn consistent.
Asks good questions overall and had a really townie approach to dealing with the rayn situation.
I know we discussed scum might want Rayn saved, but scibs seemed pretty genuine in his efforts to push Onegu/Rean as a counter. If hes faking trying to solve the game, hes doing a good job.
Q for you Scibs.
My interpretation of that list post from Onegu. Do you think that is flawed logic.
I have to admit, reading your cases on Onegu made me doubt my read -- which is concerning to me.
+ the whole act of sole tunnel on me is reminding me of how i played scum in personality 2 (where I tunneled Corazon into infinity and let the thread believe i was just that C.B.)
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On November 25 2013 13:31 Mocsta wrote:
Corazon
You are correct.
I'm completely 50/50 on holy. He loves to play protown scum, whereas here he is really brazen. Unless he's trying to actively adjust his meta I'm. It sure why he would play this was as scum -- even with time restraints. Plus self confirming so I'm. It trying to put time into him.
I'm reading scibs with a fine tooth now. I can't help feel his early game was to shit the thread. It's been a consistent feeling of mine all game for each reread. Ohh well more to go.
How does what I write about onegu influence your scum read?
I don't know, I'll look at other targets.
I want to ask you two questions that sound weird but I promise I have a method behind my madness.
How strong is your town read on Aqua?
Is there anyone else you potentially have a strong town read on?
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On November 25 2013 14:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
How strong is your town read on Aqua?
Is there anyone else you potentially have a strong town read on?
I havent filtered aqua; but in the two filters I have read (Onegu/Scibs) Aqua comes up a lot so I have kinda read his filter indirectly.
My current reads:
Town (Tier 1): {Aquanim, Sciberbia} - Definitely not interested in lynching. If HF is scum, both will prob be shot.
Town (Tier 2): {Bereft} - Unlikely to consider
Null: {Thrawn, Slam (rean), Corazon, Holyflare (LoneMeow), Onegu*} - * I kinda like Onegu as a Tier 2 town, but I want some feedback from Aqua/Scibs on my list interpretation first.
PoE Scum: {Chezinu (jampi)}
I actually like the idea of the scum team being the lurker trifecta of {LM / Jampi / Rean } = {Holy, Chez, Slam}
Just stuff like this
On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.
On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.
I'm struggling with this post to understand the message.
He spends 4 lines discussing how corazon *could* be scum.
Then he gives consideration to his scum reads (corazon) scum target (sciberbia) and indicates he could be scum.
Somehow, he concludes its he doesnt think they are both scum.
The last line is important to me because I see nothing in the writing to suggest why its unlikely they are bussing.
You could argue that he has a much stronger scum read on Corazon, and thus does see Sciberbia as unlikely scum -- he just can't get over the weirdness of the early tunnel.
However, why has he belittled his read on Corazon by stating "I could agree".
Either way, this is pretty useless based on the doctor claim I suppose.
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I've cooled off some and I'm back. Got any questions?
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The entire scumteam replacing out seems ridiculous though >.<
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On November 25 2013 14:55 Aquanim wrote:
The entire scumteam replacing out seems ridiculous though >.<
I kinda need to see if HF is doctor or not before deciding whom out of the actives COULD be scum.
Since you want some questions, please read through my points on onegu list post and see if you agree.
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Mocsta, did you just go from having sci as one of the possible 4 candidates for being scum to your top town read?
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On November 25 2013 15:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, did you just go from having sci as one of the possible 4 candidates for being scum to your top town read?
Did you have a point?
If you want to outline the sequence as a simplistic A -> B.
Then the answer to your question is: Yes.
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I don't see how being self-centred makes him town.
"I know scum are always looking for who supports them, and who doesn't; but they typically evaluate all information (as they have the knowledge advantage). Whereas, this is written in a selfish/C.B. manner that I thinks aligns with town (i.e. blinkers are on)"
I don't even know what you're talking about here.
"Its obvious he is clearly evaluating his thread presence and monitoring how people respond to him based on thread presence (e.g sciberbia). Again, scum monitor this too; but I don't think they write about how every single person treats them."
I don't see why scum wouldn't do this, especially if they feel like they're required to update the thread on what they think about everyone.
"Look how he takes offense to Rean thinking Onegu should be flipped if Aqua is town.
If Onegu was scum, I would expect a discredit here instead of observation."
I wouldn't be suprised at a 'discredit' if he was scum but I don't think he would necessarily always do it if he was scum.
Summary: I'm unconvinced and what's more I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. It might help if you rephrased your arguments.
I don't know that all of the scum is in Holy/Chez/Alak but I think one has to be and likely two are. For the purpose of evaluating Onegu's alignment I intend to look at how much any of those three were pushing for a JJD lynch over Onegu, particularly during the time period(s) where many people were voting for Onegu. If they were all wasting their time with other irrelevant shit other than pushing JJD, as IIRC they generally were, then that would indicate to me that Onegu might well be town.
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The question is:
Did day 2 look like a 1-scum and 1-town wagon day, or a 2-town wagon day?"
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Ok, I'm just going to throw my idea out there.
In my opinion, the biggest problem of Day 2 was the lack of thread movement in the first 20 hours. This was frustrating for me and for a lot of other active players. It obviously wasn't ideal and I think we need a way to fix that and force people to lurk less; we had to choose between 4-5 lurkers and they had no reason or motivation to delurk. This is bad.
What is my suggestion to counter this? We form a town circle with Me, Aqua, Mocsta, and Bereft/Sciberia (one or possibly both).
These five have been the most active players in the game and I think we can all put our heads together and force the others to de-lurk.
How do we accomplish this? We should all talk for the rest of N2 and the beginning of D3. We should decide on a lynch within the first part of D3 and all pack our votes on that one player. This would force that person to delurk and we can change our vote or not based on their responses.
I think we need to work closer together and form a temporary alliance for at least D3 and hopefully D4 if enough of the players are still around. If we can get 5 people in our circle, we can force scum to kill either two people in the circle (and either force HF to protect someone in the circle or out him as scum with a fake claim) or we can have 4 people in our circle and bully one other player into voting with us (if HF is town and gets shot).
Let me know if this is a good idea or if I'm just dumb.
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Onegu didnt receive that much pressure; Corazon was just very outspoken about this push.
On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Mocsta
Chezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, Chezinu
JarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta
sciberbia (0): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, Chezinu
Mocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon
This is the the most even vote count before JarJar gets 7
On November 25 2013 07:20 ObviousOne wrote:
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
ReanAlakaslam (1): Aquanim
jampidampiChezinu (0): Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon
JarJarDrinks (3): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta
sciberbia (1): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (0): Bereft, Aquanim
Mocsta (3): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (1): cDgCorazon
Not Voting (2): Alakaslam, thrawn2112
I dunno what to make of this.
Having just read jampidampi filter, I actually like the tone of his posts.
*sigh* need a break.
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I'm not against the idea Corazon.
Def need more discussion.
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On November 25 2013 15:43 Mocsta wrote:
I'm not against the idea Corazon.
Def need more discussion.
Would you be ok with that group of 5? It only works if we all think we are town at least a little bit.
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EPT
