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On December 02 2013 09:16 Bereft wrote:
the issue is that you don't sound like a paranoid, confused townie. you sound like you are pushing an agenda. I believe you referred to scib as licking my balls and cuddling up to me. the word choice seems to me more indicative of someone trying to plant doubt than someone questioning assumptions and generating discussion. it raises a red flag is all.
do you still think onegu is irrefutably scum? do you think scib is more likely to be scum than slam?
(2)
Yes, I am confident Onegu is scum. My vote has not waivered either??
My main issue with Slam is the timing of his votes/posts. They are quite opportune in hindsight.
My main issue with Scibs is the lack of drive he is injecting into the thread + the NKs. I can't fathom how he thinks the NKs implicate me.. especially when considering that Corazon had a strong enough town read on Sciberbia to warrant a fake-claim town read. Scib should have been shot instead of Thrawn, and certainly instead of Chezinu.
I am leaning Sciberbia over Slam.. but need to see Slam respond to the two questions asked of him recently as well.
(1)
How is using colour language raising a red flag?
The important thing is whether you can understand my PoV - not necessarily whether you agree.
If you can understand my PoV then I am certainly not planting doubt and am in fact generating discussion.
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On December 02 2013 09:16 Bereft wrote:
the issue is that you don't sound like a paranoid, confused townie. you sound like you are pushing an agenda. I believe you referred to scib as licking my balls and cuddling up to me. the word choice seems to me more indicative of someone trying to plant doubt than someone questioning assumptions and generating discussion. it raises a red flag is all.
do you still think onegu is irrefutably scum? do you think scib is more likely to be scum than slam?
To piggyback a bit on this point, it is MYLO. You should not be acting like a paranoid townie. You should have enough confidence in one lynch and push it. Being a strong town player Moc, you should know this more than anyone. So why is it that you refuse to lynch Onegu again?
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On December 02 2013 09:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
So why is it that you refuse to lynch Onegu again?
On December 01 2013 21:59 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 16:58 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count Onegu (2): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, cDgCorazon (2): Onegu, Mocsta Not Voting (2): Bereft, sciberbia
No one is currently set to be lynched.
6 players alive means 4 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.
Day 4 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00) (1) My final scum team is: Holyflare, Onegu, Sciberbia (2) ##Vote: OneguI am voting Onegu as we need consolidation. (3) Bereft We need you on Onegu I even ask Bereft to consolidate
I don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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On December 02 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 09:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
So why is it that you refuse to lynch Onegu again? Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 21:59 Mocsta wrote:On December 01 2013 16:58 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count Onegu (2): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, cDgCorazon (2): Onegu, Mocsta Not Voting (2): Bereft, sciberbia
No one is currently set to be lynched.
6 players alive means 4 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.
Day 4 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00) (1) My final scum team is: Holyflare, Onegu, Sciberbia (2) ##Vote: OneguI am voting Onegu as we need consolidation. (3) Bereft We need you on Onegu I even ask Bereft to consolidate I don't have a clue what you are talking about.
You're still reluctant to lynch him. You're only doing it for consolidation. Why are Sciberia/Slam/myself scummier than Onegu?
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On December 02 2013 10:01 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:On December 02 2013 09:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
So why is it that you refuse to lynch Onegu again? On December 01 2013 21:59 Mocsta wrote:On December 01 2013 16:58 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count Onegu (2): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, cDgCorazon (2): Onegu, Mocsta Not Voting (2): Bereft, sciberbia
No one is currently set to be lynched.
6 players alive means 4 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.
Day 4 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00) (1) My final scum team is: Holyflare, Onegu, Sciberbia (2) ##Vote: OneguI am voting Onegu as we need consolidation. (3) Bereft We need you on Onegu I even ask Bereft to consolidate I don't have a clue what you are talking about. You're still reluctant to lynch him. You're only doing it for consolidation. Why are Sciberia/Slam/ myself scummier than Onegu? I am happy to go into detail about this, *if* you have read my filter and are uncertain.
But if you think that *I* consider you scum.. then clearly you havent read my filter.
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On December 02 2013 03:06 cDgCorazon wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Case] +I would like to preface this case with "I want to lynch Onegu first but if you can't settle on lynching him, here is an alternate lynch". Mocsta looks a lot scummier with the inevitable Onegu flip (I call it inevitable because Onegu is scum and I've proven it 5 times this game) and I will prove to you guys why. Thesis (TL;DR in paragraph form) + Show Spoiler +Mocsta is scum due to his actions completely matching a scum Mocsta (lynches/nightkills) and his interactions within an Onegu/HF/Mocsta scum team. His D1 agenda was to attempt to take out either Rayn or Aqua (both strong town players, which he tried to do by sheeping on the Aqua wagon and was successful by manipulating Rayn's tempermental personality to blow up and have him basically self-claim scum). He sheeped on the JJD lynch to take out a townie. The night kill on Aqua was because he is a strong town player and the night kill on Thrawn was because Thrawn was buddying him and having a town read on Mocsta (an attempt to gain town cred). His interactions with HF and Onegu (especially with his reluctance to lynch Onegu) is an attempt for him to save his buddies and win today. Part 1: Mocsta's actions this game and how they work from a scum prespective This part assumes that: - Mocsta is good at scum (which is not much of a stretch)
- Mocsta knows the playstyles of others and know who are strong townies (not much of a stretch either)
Mocsta's votes and the nightkills make complete sense from Mocsta's perspective. Any scum player would go into this game and ask themselves "Who are the strongest town players here?". The answers from scum Mocsta would be simple: Rayn and Aqua. His goal would be to take those two out as quickly as possible. He jumps on the Aqua lynch really easily and for no reason: On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Quote of the day. + Show Spoiler +Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive  I gotta get some credit mason man Choo-Choo !! Mocsta saw this lynch as a stupidly easy way to get Aquanim lynched D1 and jumped at the chance. He just +1s Thrawn and gives absolutely no reason for an Aqua lynch. This just screams of scum trying to get a good town player lynched without having to nightkill him. We then move onto the Rayn lynch, which I don't really need quotes for. Mocsta knows Rayn's personality. Rayn can be a real big asset to town but can also make everyone think he is scum when he is agitated enough. What did Mocsta do? He sat there and waited for an opening to prod Rayn. Once he did that, the 12-hour shitfight that was the conclusion of D1 happened and Rayn basically scum claimed as town. That was "directly" caused by Mocsta and it's ridiculously scummy. D2 was really scummy for Mocsta. He says that: On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh
you huysbare playing like rayn.
looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.
thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time
need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.
avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.
conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.
if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.
people like onegu, holy, rwan [rean] are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,
cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.
good lcuk Yet does absolutely nothing to get these 3 lynched. I tried to get a wagon started on Onegu and he said that he would vote for Onegu, yet: On November 25 2013 10:40 Mocsta wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback.
I feel as frantic with the rayyn lynch.
Whereas two cycles in a row he diesnt care.
Why is it that it's all the same people talking at this pivotal time.
I'm confident we are all town, and scum are letting us in fight with each other.
Yes, wagon of justice.
##vote: jarjardrinks
He gives no reason for lynching JJD. He didn't say he wanted to consolidate and he didn't say that JJD is scum for X reason. He's just trying to steer the lynch off of Holyflare/Onegu. That is why he lied about planning on voting for Onegu, even though he said multiple times that he though Onegu was scum and that he wanted to lynch Onegu. Why wasn't he pushing his reads? He spent D2 jumping targets and trying to lynch outside of yourself/Onegu (who I proved was scum)/HF (who was pretty scummy). It screams of survival for the team over actually trying to lynch scum. The JJD wagon was a great excuse to coast his way into MYLO. The nightkills N2 also make sense from Mocsta's perspective. He got rid of Aquanim, the other strong town player, and Thrawn, someone who had buddied him. He thought that we would take Thrawn's strong town read on Mocsta and take it as true words from a dead VT. This is the part where Mocsta should have died. If Aqua/Rayn/Mocsta/myself are all dead, the thread comes to a standstill. We saw this from D2 when Mocsta was strapped for time and it was just Aqua and I pushing the thread with Mocsta chiming in. The fact that scum did not want to take this huge advantage and kill town Mocsta makes me really suspicious as to why he is still around. Warning: This section contains some WIFOMNot only does the above make Mocsta look bad, his interactions between Onegu and Holylfare have been suspicious as well. Mocsta has been really reluctant to push or vote both of them and my reads on them make my scum read on Mocsta that much stronger. In the middle of D2, Onegu came up with his weaksauce case on Mocsta. What would a scum team need in that situation? - Mocsta needs towncred to survive MYLO
- Onegu needs to do something to make a case and get towncred in order to not get lynched
Why does this make sense? Onegu makes a bad case and gets everyone to think it is a desperation scum move to throw a case on a townie. Mocsta uses this to survive MYLO and win the game after Onegu flips red. Mocsta and Onegu basically proceed to avoid each other to make it not obvious that it is a bus. Mocsta tries to steer the lynch off of Onegu (what he has done the last few pages) and Onegu has been trying to keep a scum read on me. The proof that the scum team is Mocsta/HF/Onegu is in these two posts by Holyflare: On November 27 2013 13:48 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 13:47 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:46 Alakaslam wrote:On November 27 2013 13:44 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:43 Alakaslam wrote:On November 27 2013 13:39 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:26 Mocsta wrote:
This is a fucking farce.
Corazon fake claimed... Is this for fucking real?
Holy.. u compared my role pm to Cora to show Cora fake claimed.
Why are you still assuming I'm scum?? I don't like this post. It looks scummy That is how people get their points across (Though I don't red stuff) It's a FoS, it isn't a ihu No, they did it multiple times and didn't follow up on it at all. Btw Moc: Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Sergei Mikhailov a Mobster (Vanilla Townie) . You so dislike the term mobster, you prefer to consider yourself a business man. You've never been implicated by the police, despite the dozen or so murders your family stands accused of. You are very much a neo-capitalist, having abandoned the old comunist regime at the height of the cold war, your ancient KGB connections still serve you well, allowing you to operate in the gray area between law and crime that is oh so difficult to pin down. Crush those who would bring down your "business" This is my real role That always happens. That probably means they dropped them. If not maybe they are just as scummy. Mocsta told me one of my posts was "too constructed" and then continued to not talk about me. He just chimed in to say that post was scummy and then went onto other things. cz he [Mocsta] is scum <3 On November 27 2013 14:35 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta, we've been had by the bereft/cora/slam trio! Why does HF refuse to think that Onegu is scum and then flip-flop on his Mocsta read? It's because HF wants everyone to think his Mocsta scum read was just desperation attacks on a townie. However, his inability to keep his story straight means that he is trying to hide the fact that he is scum buddies with Mocsta. He wants to have the Mocsta scum read for proof of scumhunting but HF doesn't want us to remember Mocsta's scumminess. It screams of a bus to me as well, simply as an excuse for activity. In conclusion, this game makes sense from scum Mocsta's perspective. I am very confident for the above reasons that the scum team is Mocsta/Onegu/HF. Mocsta isn't a bad player. He's not going to contradict himself and calling him scum has to be more complicated than finding something scummy in his writing. I didn't figure this out until I thought about the game and what scum would try and do. Mocsta's actions fit the bill for what scum would do this game. Lets break this down.
(1) TL;DR
Mocsta is scum due to his actions completely matching a scum Mocsta (lynches/nightkills) and his interactions within an Onegu/HF/Mocsta scum team. His D1 agenda was to attempt to take out either Rayn or Aqua (both strong town players, which he tried to do by sheeping on the Aqua wagon and was successful by manipulating Rayn's tempermental personality to blow up and have him basically self-claim scum). He sheeped on the JJD lynch to take out a townie. The night kill on Aqua was because he is a strong town player and the night kill on Thrawn was because Thrawn was buddying him and having a town read on Mocsta (an attempt to gain town cred). His interactions with HF and Onegu (especially with his reluctance to lynch Onegu) is an attempt for him to save his buddies and win today.
I don't even know how to respond to this because its such a biased snap-shot of the thread?
(a) Sheep Voted "strong town player Aqua: How is this difference to other players in the thread that did this? My vote didnt even remain on Aqua and I convinced Thrawn to remove the vote.. like WTF?
(b) Manipulated Rayn into imploding: How? Rayn and I had town reads on each other until I disagreed with him regarding Rean/Slam. He was already chucking the shits at anyone voting Rean before I came back to the thread... like WTF?
(c) He sheeped onto JJD lynch to take out a townie... again, why is this scummy for me and not for anyone else?... like WTF?
(d) Reluctance to lynch Onegu... again.. why is this scummy from me, yet Sciberbia who made multiple cases on Onegu was also reluctant... like WTF?
(e) Interactions with HF... again I dont even comprehend how my interactions with HF look scum-scum (nor do you explain it)
Maybe these things * DO * make me scum... but Corazon has not gone to any effort to infer why these actions make *ME* scum, and *OTHERS* town. The confirmation bias is evident already.
(2) Scum Perspective
Part 1: Mocsta's actions this game and how they work from a scum prespective This part assumes that: - Mocsta is good at scum (which is not much of a stretch)
- Mocsta knows the playstyles of others and know who are strong townies (not much of a stretch either)
Mocsta's votes and the nightkills make complete sense from Mocsta's perspective. Any scum player would go into this game and ask themselves "Who are the strongest town players here?". The answers from scum Mocsta would be simple: Rayn and Aqua. His goal would be to take those two out as quickly as possible. He jumps on the Aqua lynch really easily and for no reason: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Quote of the day. + Show Spoiler +Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive I gotta get some credit mason man Choo-Choo !! Mocsta saw this lynch as a stupidly easy way to get Aquanim lynched D1 and jumped at the chance. He just +1s Thrawn and gives absolutely no reason for an Aqua lynch. This just screams of scum trying to get a good town player lynched without having to nightkill him.
Secondly. Yes, I jumped onto the Aquanim lynch.. I already had issues with him earlier in the game, and again, how is this different to others that jumped on board as well? And if I wanted to get Aqua lynched because he is such a strong town player.. then why did I convince Thrawn to jump off Aquanim?
You are reading one post and creating fables to suit the story you want to tell.
We then move onto the Rayn lynch, which I don't really need quotes for. Mocsta knows Rayn's personality. Rayn can be a real big asset to town but can also make everyone think he is scum when he is agitated enough. What did Mocsta do? He sat there and waited for an opening to prod Rayn. Once he did that, the 12-hour shitfight that was the conclusion of D1 happened and Rayn basically scum claimed as town. That was "directly" caused by Mocsta and it's ridiculously scummy. You do need quotes because this is flat-out wrong. Rayn referred to anyone that disagreed with him as scum. My prodding didn't come about until he started calling me scum. We actually had town reads on each other until that point.
If you are going to have the tenanacity to state that this is "ridiculously scummy" then explain NOW how this was "directly" caused by me.
D2 was really scummy for Mocsta. He says that: Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh
you huysbare playing like rayn.
looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.
thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time
need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.
avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.
conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.
if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.
people like onegu, holy, rwan [rean] are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,
cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.
good lcuk Yet does absolutely nothing to get these 3 lynched. I tried to get a wagon started on Onegu and he said that he would vote for Onegu, yet: Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:40 Mocsta wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback.
I feel as frantic with the rayyn lynch.
Whereas two cycles in a row he diesnt care.
Why is it that it's all the same people talking at this pivotal time.
I'm confident we are all town, and scum are letting us in fight with each other.
Yes, wagon of justice.
##vote: jarjardrinks
He gives no reason for lynching JJD. He didn't say he wanted to consolidate and he didn't say that JJD is scum for X reason. He's just trying to steer the lynch off of Holyflare/Onegu. That is why he lied about planning on voting for Onegu, even though he said multiple times that he though Onegu was scum and that he wanted to lynch Onegu. Why wasn't he pushing his reads? He spent D2 jumping targets and trying to lynch outside of yourself/Onegu (who I proved was scum)/HF (who was pretty scummy). It screams of survival for the team over actually trying to lynch scum. The JJD wagon was a great excuse to coast his way into MYLO. The nightkills N2 also make sense from Mocsta's perspective. He got rid of Aquanim, the other strong town player, and Thrawn, someone who had buddied him. He thought that we would take Thrawn's strong town read on Mocsta and take it as true words from a dead VT. This is the part where Mocsta should have died. If Aqua/Rayn/Mocsta/myself are all dead, the thread comes to a standstill. We saw this from D2 when Mocsta was strapped for time and it was just Aqua and I pushing the thread with Mocsta chiming in. The fact that scum did not want to take this huge advantage and kill town Mocsta makes me really suspicious as to why he is still around.
We couldnt lynch Holy based on the doctor claim.. how is this a relevant point?
I tried to lynch Onegu several times and struggled to get buy in. I even have the first vote on him ffs.
Why is me not joining you on Onegu scummy? Its not explained, and why is it different from others not joining?
Again, double standards where the same tell are not relevant to others, but magically are scum if applied to me.
My whole position this game has been about the mechanic of majority to lynch. This should be clear.. and explains why I did not join the vote on Onegu. It was a dead vote and there were 3 scum in the game. It didnt matter whether he died first or last.
(3) Interactions
Warning: This section contains some WIFOMNot only does the above make Mocsta look bad, his interactions between Onegu and Holylfare have been suspicious as well. Mocsta has been really reluctant to push or vote both of them and my reads on them make my scum read on Mocsta that much stronger. In the middle of D2, Onegu came up with his weaksauce case on Mocsta. What would a scum team need in that situation? - Mocsta needs towncred to survive MYLO
- Onegu needs to do something to make a case and get towncred in order to not get lynched
Why does this make sense? Onegu makes a bad case and gets everyone to think it is a desperation scum move to throw a case on a townie. Mocsta uses this to survive MYLO and win the game after Onegu flips red. Mocsta and Onegu basically proceed to avoid each other to make it not obvious that it is a bus. Mocsta tries to steer the lynch off of Onegu (what he has done the last few pages) and Onegu has been trying to keep a scum read on me. So you are admitting to making association reads. I am scum because of an unflipped Onegu.
This aside: I have never pushed that Onegu made weak cases on me to assert I am town. The insinuation that Onegu made these actions for town cred is proven false already.
The proof that the scum team is Mocsta/HF/Onegu is in these two posts by Holyflare: Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 13:48 Holyflare wrote:On November 27 2013 13:47 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:46 Alakaslam wrote:On November 27 2013 13:44 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:43 Alakaslam wrote:On November 27 2013 13:39 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:26 Mocsta wrote:
This is a fucking farce.
Corazon fake claimed... Is this for fucking real?
Holy.. u compared my role pm to Cora to show Cora fake claimed.
Why are you still assuming I'm scum?? I don't like this post. It looks scummy That is how people get their points across (Though I don't red stuff) It's a FoS, it isn't a ihu No, they did it multiple times and didn't follow up on it at all. Btw Moc: Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Sergei Mikhailov a Mobster (Vanilla Townie) . You so dislike the term mobster, you prefer to consider yourself a business man. You've never been implicated by the police, despite the dozen or so murders your family stands accused of. You are very much a neo-capitalist, having abandoned the old comunist regime at the height of the cold war, your ancient KGB connections still serve you well, allowing you to operate in the gray area between law and crime that is oh so difficult to pin down. Crush those who would bring down your "business" This is my real role That always happens. That probably means they dropped them. If not maybe they are just as scummy. Mocsta told me one of my posts was "too constructed" and then continued to not talk about me. He just chimed in to say that post was scummy and then went onto other things. cz he [Mocsta] is scum <3 Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 14:35 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta, we've been had by the bereft/cora/slam trio! Why does HF refuse to think that Onegu is scum and then flip-flop on his Mocsta read? It's because HF wants everyone to think his Mocsta scum read was just desperation attacks on a townie. However, his inability to keep his story straight means that he is trying to hide the fact that he is scum buddies with Mocsta. He wants to have the Mocsta scum read for proof of scumhunting but HF doesn't want us to remember Mocsta's scumminess. It screams of a bus to me as well, simply as an excuse for activity.
Why is his inability to keep a story straight mean he is hiding the fact I am a scum buddy?
Why can't he be caving under the pressure that *I* put him under.
Why can't he be desperate enough to appeal to my ego.
Why can't he be throwing WIFOM bombs around before death.
Why can't he be doing <insert other>
How you jump to your conclusion makes no sense.
(4) Conclusion
In conclusion, this game makes sense from scum Mocsta's perspective. I am very confident for the above reasons that the scum team is Mocsta/Onegu/HF. Mocsta isn't a bad player. He's not going to contradict himself and calling him scum has to be more complicated than finding something scummy in his writing. I didn't figure this out until I thought about the game and what scum would try and do. Mocsta's actions fit the bill for what scum would do this game. I contradict myself all the time as town. Even Aquanim pointed this out.
Him and Thrawn were my two strongest advocates. There is no town cred to be had by eliminating them. If I wanted to coast to victory I would have shot thoses agianst me.. My actions certainly do not fit the bill for what scum would do this game.
The crux of your case is summated as:
"I wanted Onegu lynched, and Mocsta has flipflopped about his vote with Onegu ... Therefore he is scum by ASSOCIATION"
Yet, others in the thread have also waivered around Onegu (e.g. Bereft + Sciberbia).
Why do identical actions apply town to others, and scum to me.
This case does nothing to prove I could be scum.
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On December 01 2013 14:09 Mocsta wrote:
I'm down with a Corazon lynch
I think I'm alive because I have a strong town read in someone I shouldn't.
I will be home in about 6hrs and am will filter dive from there.
Scibs has voiced my concern pretty well. Oddly enough he didn't seem concerned I called him out. This game is just odd and my care factor has sunk to zilch.
That's courtesy if Corazon. I'm happy to lynch hun for funsies.
##unvote
##vote:Corazon
So this post is from an alternate universe or something?
You write on sentence about how I could be town due to a post by HF but then you say I'm still suspicious. If that one point is enough to give you a town read on me, why did you vote for me in the first place?
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Mocsta, half of your defense is "those things are scummy but they don't make me scummy"...what?
Look, I'm going to make this simple. You started the Rayn bandwagon. You prodded him until he blew up. You KNEW that he would blow up if provoked and you did that. It's ridiculously anti-town to get Rayn to blow up and you should have known that there were better lynches D1.
If you are saying that my case is based off of Onegu being scum, why are you so afraid so lynch Onegu? You said he is scum (in red letters) D2 and you decided to lynch both JJD and HF over him? You don't even want to lynch him now. Hell, I don't even know who you WANT to lynch today. You're just reluctantly going on the Onegu wagon. It just reads to me like you are afraid of what will happen when Onegu flips red.
The game makes sense with you being scum, Mocsta. Do you understand that? HF and Onegu have waffled on their reads on you and it looks really suspicious. Please, tell me how you would have played and who you would have nightkilled first if you were scum.
There are 3 strong town players and 1 active town player in this group:
Rayn
Aqua
You
Me
These 4 people have driven the thread the entire game. Without them, the scum would have a really easy time directing the lynches. I'm town, so there is a good chance that you are scum. If we are both town, we would not be here right now.
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On December 02 2013 10:15 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 14:09 Mocsta wrote:
I'm down with a Corazon lynch
I think I'm alive because I have a strong town read in someone I shouldn't.
I will be home in about 6hrs and am will filter dive from there.
Scibs has voiced my concern pretty well. Oddly enough he didn't seem concerned I called him out. This game is just odd and my care factor has sunk to zilch.
That's courtesy if Corazon. I'm happy to lynch hun for funsies.
##unvote
##vote:Corazon So this post is from an alternate universe or something? You write on sentence about how I could be town due to a post by HF but then you say I'm still suspicious. If that one point is enough to give you a town read on me, why did you vote for me in the first place?
I'm happy to lynch hun for funsies.
You've been pissing me late game. There are no spare townies left, so we all have to vote together. And the *ONLY* reason we got a lynch through on HF was because a scum bussed.
This isn't acceptable in my opinion.
Whats ya point?
I came back 6 hrs later, filter dived and voted Onegu.
You're accusing me as scum for being the most transparent person in the thread.... jeez
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Why has it taken you since N1 (almost 140 hours) to get from the conclusion that Onegu is scum to keeping your vote on him for more than 3 hours?
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On November 22 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote:Btw, I think Thrawn is town. I did very much 24hrs ago; and his compulsion to keep swapping votes is towny to me. It could put him heavily under suspicion when rayn flipped town, and frankly, was unnecessary as scum play. I thought Aqua was town from 24hrs ago as well. Holy states that aqua is ignoring everything, but that is not my opinion. If anything, Aqua can't stop bantering back with Rayn. Again, this is over done knowing it is a town flip. Aqua could have easily nested on his read - but he did not. I have a town lean on him, but wiill still be reading his cases carefully (and with Rayn gone I expect more output like cases from him) Me: I was transparent about policy. You want to call that mafia, whatever. I knwo this game is 100% different to my recent scum game. Nothing more needs to be said + I dont knwo why you keep insinuating I am intimate with Rayns meta. I have expectations of his play, but I am not a connoiseur of him at all. Onegu: Looks pretty bad I agree regardless of AFK. Show nested quote +Anyway mocsta is my biggest scumread now. Also Rayn is a terrible lynch today please change, ill try to be up for deadline but no promises. This in particular. Nothing to do with the AFK its got to do with how he went about the situation. He gives rayn a town read, and forces town to consider Rayns thread opposition (me) Compare this to Corazon who is trying to avoid continuing this ego battle - Onegu instead fans the flames. Onegu *is* scum
The post I am referencing. This was about 9 days ago (216 hours).
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On December 02 2013 10:27 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, half of your defense is "those things are scummy but they don't make me scummy"...what? No its not. I stated that you look at actions that I do and call it scum. And then when others do the same actions, you are not calling it scum.
I am stating you are double standard.
Look, I'm going to make this simple. You started the Rayn bandwagon. You prodded him until he blew up. You KNEW that he would blow up if provoked and you did that. It's ridiculously anti-town to get Rayn to blow up and you should have known that there were better lynches D1. Bring up the quotes then because he "blew up" before I came back to the thread.
If you are saying that my case is based off of Onegu being scum, why are you so afraid so lynch Onegu? You said he is scum (in red letters) D2 and you decided to lynch both JJD and HF over him? You don't even want to lynch him now. Hell, I don't even know who you WANT to lynch today. You're just reluctantly going on the Onegu wagon. It just reads to me like you are afraid of what will happen when Onegu flips red. Onegu is hard to read because hes useless, and I misread him in Hogwarts. Again, others have been reluctant to vote Onegu.
Heck, Bereft *just* voted Onegu.
Why is this scummy for me, and OK for everyone else?
The game makes sense with you being scum, Mocsta. Do you understand that? HF and Onegu have waffled on their reads on you and it looks really suspicious. Please, tell me how you would have played and who you would have nightkilled first if you were scum. The game makes zero sense with me as scum.
D2: Bereft / Sciberbia / Onegu / Holyflare / ?Corazon? were considering me scummy.
Bereft even made a case I think.
Why would I shoot my two only advocates (Thrawn + Aquanim) to be lumped with people that want me lynched... This is absolutely stupid scum play.
And then you come up with town cred; but not once have I insinuated those kills were made to frame me. Your whole story falls apart. There is no sense to me being scum.
Who would I NK based on a Rayn flip? I can't answer that because I dont know who is scum.
There are 3 strong town players and 1 active town player in this group:
Rayn
Aqua
You
Me
These 4 people have driven the thread the entire game. Without them, the scum would have a really easy time directing the lynches. I'm town, so there is a good chance that you are scum. If we are both town, we would not be here right now. Why is there a good chance I am scum.
Why does 3 strong town players and 1 active town player equate to 1 compulsory scum?
You state "if we are both town, we would not be here right now"
Yet previously you stated that Onegu kept us alive because with either of us dead he has nothing left to push....
I already said before. I think I am alive because either:
(1) Scum think I dont have enough town cred and could be mislynched - I doubt this
(2) I have a town read on a scummer - I think this is likely
(3) Scum want to frame me not via NK, but that I am still alive - this is a remote possibility but pretty weak play
Frankly. based on my games as town in MYLO (of which there are several): (2) is very likely.
I am known for being extremely confirmation biased in particular to my strong town reads.
Its all WIFOM though. The point being that with the amount of information at our disposal, there is no way you can come to such a certain conclusion. Even now I am not 100% on Onegu being scum; nor was I with a HF lynch.
If you can honestly say you are 100% certain that Onegu is scum.. either you are bussing him; or extremely tunneled and not willing to improve.
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On December 02 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote:Btw, I think Thrawn is town. I did very much 24hrs ago; and his compulsion to keep swapping votes is towny to me. It could put him heavily under suspicion when rayn flipped town, and frankly, was unnecessary as scum play. I thought Aqua was town from 24hrs ago as well. Holy states that aqua is ignoring everything, but that is not my opinion. If anything, Aqua can't stop bantering back with Rayn. Again, this is over done knowing it is a town flip. Aqua could have easily nested on his read - but he did not. I have a town lean on him, but wiill still be reading his cases carefully (and with Rayn gone I expect more output like cases from him) Me: I was transparent about policy. You want to call that mafia, whatever. I knwo this game is 100% different to my recent scum game. Nothing more needs to be said + I dont knwo why you keep insinuating I am intimate with Rayns meta. I have expectations of his play, but I am not a connoiseur of him at all. Onegu: Looks pretty bad I agree regardless of AFK. Anyway mocsta is my biggest scumread now. Also Rayn is a terrible lynch today please change, ill try to be up for deadline but no promises. This in particular. Nothing to do with the AFK its got to do with how he went about the situation. He gives rayn a town read, and forces town to consider Rayns thread opposition (me) Compare this to Corazon who is trying to avoid continuing this ego battle - Onegu instead fans the flames. Onegu *is* scum The post I am referencing. This was about 9 days ago (216 hours).
I already explain this. Why are you refusing to read?
I was the first vote on Onegu D2.
People opposed the vote.
There were 3 scum in the game.. why do I have to force a Onegu vote?
Again, your entire issue is based on an unflipped Onegu. If you want to be making these plays, you should be doing it post-Onegu flip assuming the game continues.
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"I AM 100% CERTAIN THAT ONEGU IS SCUM"
-Corazon, 2013
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On November 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town. Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him. Wild theory #1(stated previously) Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town. Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting Wild Theory #2Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT. After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team. backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday.
This post started the Rayn craziness. What was the purpose of this? To provoke Rayn
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Also, no one was suspicious enough to lynch you D3 except for the two scum players HF and Onegu. HF didn't even want to lynch anyone and Onegu made a weak-ass case on you. I didn't want to lynch you D3. That leaves 2 possible people suspicious of you.
You were not going to be lynched anytime soon so it actually does makes sense to get rid of people who would be better at finding townies. All you had to do was lynch one townie and you would have won the game. Your point is not valid there.
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On December 02 2013 10:50 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town. Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him. Wild theory #1(stated previously) Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town. Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting Wild Theory #2Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT. After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team. backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday. This post started the Rayn craziness. What was the purpose of this? To provoke Rayn
Yeah OK, I provoked him and what? Why is it scummy to provoke people Corazon?
I had a town read on Aquanim and a scum read on Rean. Rayn was swapping from Rean to Aqua suddenly. Again, why can't I prod.
Even with the above, you completely neglect that Thrawn threw out several points against Rayn long before the quote above.
Be consistent dude.
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On December 02 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also, no one was suspicious enough to lynch you D3 except for the two scum players HF and Onegu. HF didn't even want to lynch anyone and Onegu made a weak-ass case on you. I didn't want to lynch you D3. That leaves 2 possible people suspicious of you.
You were not going to be lynched anytime soon so it actually does makes sense to get rid of people who would be better at finding townies. All you had to do was lynch one townie and you would have won the game. Your point is not valid there.
Why even make this post?
I put 3 scenarios I can think off the top of my head, and the one I felt was most likely wasnt even the one you are talking about here.
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On December 02 2013 11:00 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 10:50 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town. Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him. Wild theory #1(stated previously) Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town. Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting Wild Theory #2Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT. After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team. backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday. This post started the Rayn craziness. What was the purpose of this? To provoke Rayn Yeah OK, I provoked him and what? Why is it scummy to provoke people Corazon? I had a town read on Aquanim and a scum read on Rean. Rayn was swapping from Rean to Aqua suddenly. Again, why can't I prod. Even with the above, you completely neglect that Thrawn threw out several points against Rayn long before the quote above. Be consistent dude.
You should have known that Rayn has a limit and that if that limit is pushed, what happened D1 happens. He voted you so obviously you were the one who provoked him too much.
It's one thing to prod him with logical questions but to make a post like that has only one intention: to push Rayn past the limit.
It's scummy cause you got Rayn lynched with it.
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EPT
