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I would like to preface this case with "I want to lynch Onegu first but if you can't settle on lynching him, here is an alternate lynch". Mocsta looks a lot scummier with the inevitable Onegu flip (I call it inevitable because Onegu is scum and I've proven it 5 times this game) and I will prove to you guys why.
Thesis (TL;DR in paragraph form)
+ Show Spoiler +Mocsta is scum due to his actions completely matching a scum Mocsta (lynches/nightkills) and his interactions within an Onegu/HF/Mocsta scum team. His D1 agenda was to attempt to take out either Rayn or Aqua (both strong town players, which he tried to do by sheeping on the Aqua wagon and was successful by manipulating Rayn's tempermental personality to blow up and have him basically self-claim scum). He sheeped on the JJD lynch to take out a townie. The night kill on Aqua was because he is a strong town player and the night kill on Thrawn was because Thrawn was buddying him and having a town read on Mocsta (an attempt to gain town cred). His interactions with HF and Onegu (especially with his reluctance to lynch Onegu) is an attempt for him to save his buddies and win today.
Part 1: Mocsta's actions this game and how they work from a scum prespective
This part assumes that: - Mocsta is good at scum (which is not much of a stretch)
- Mocsta knows the playstyles of others and know who are strong townies (not much of a stretch either)
Mocsta's votes and the nightkills make complete sense from Mocsta's perspective. Any scum player would go into this game and ask themselves "Who are the strongest town players here?". The answers from scum Mocsta would be simple: Rayn and Aqua. His goal would be to take those two out as quickly as possible. He jumps on the Aqua lynch really easily and for no reason:
On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Quote of the day. + Show Spoiler +Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive  I gotta get some credit mason man Choo-Choo !!
Mocsta saw this lynch as a stupidly easy way to get Aquanim lynched D1 and jumped at the chance. He just +1s Thrawn and gives absolutely no reason for an Aqua lynch. This just screams of scum trying to get a good town player lynched without having to nightkill him.
We then move onto the Rayn lynch, which I don't really need quotes for. Mocsta knows Rayn's personality. Rayn can be a real big asset to town but can also make everyone think he is scum when he is agitated enough. What did Mocsta do? He sat there and waited for an opening to prod Rayn. Once he did that, the 12-hour shitfight that was the conclusion of D1 happened and Rayn basically scum claimed as town. That was "directly" caused by Mocsta and it's ridiculously scummy.
D2 was really scummy for Mocsta. He says that:
On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh
you huysbare playing like rayn.
looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.
thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time
need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.
avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.
conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.
if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.
people like onegu, holy, rwan [rean] are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,
cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.
good lcuk
Yet does absolutely nothing to get these 3 lynched. I tried to get a wagon started on Onegu and he said that he would vote for Onegu, yet:
On November 25 2013 10:40 Mocsta wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback.
I feel as frantic with the rayyn lynch.
Whereas two cycles in a row he diesnt care.
Why is it that it's all the same people talking at this pivotal time.
I'm confident we are all town, and scum are letting us in fight with each other.
Yes, wagon of justice.
##vote: jarjardrinks
He gives no reason for lynching JJD. He didn't say he wanted to consolidate and he didn't say that JJD is scum for X reason. He's just trying to steer the lynch off of Holyflare/Onegu. That is why he lied about planning on voting for Onegu, even though he said multiple times that he though Onegu was scum and that he wanted to lynch Onegu. Why wasn't he pushing his reads? He spent D2 jumping targets and trying to lynch outside of yourself/Onegu (who I proved was scum)/HF (who was pretty scummy). It screams of survival for the team over actually trying to lynch scum. The JJD wagon was a great excuse to coast his way into MYLO.
The nightkills N2 also make sense from Mocsta's perspective. He got rid of Aquanim, the other strong town player, and Thrawn, someone who had buddied him. He thought that we would take Thrawn's strong town read on Mocsta and take it as true words from a dead VT. This is the part where Mocsta should have died. If Aqua/Rayn/Mocsta/myself are all dead, the thread comes to a standstill. We saw this from D2 when Mocsta was strapped for time and it was just Aqua and I pushing the thread with Mocsta chiming in. The fact that scum did not want to take this huge advantage and kill town Mocsta makes me really suspicious as to why he is still around.
Warning: This section contains some WIFOM
Not only does the above make Mocsta look bad, his interactions between Onegu and Holylfare have been suspicious as well. Mocsta has been really reluctant to push or vote both of them and my reads on them make my scum read on Mocsta that much stronger.
In the middle of D2, Onegu came up with his weaksauce case on Mocsta. What would a scum team need in that situation?
- Mocsta needs towncred to survive MYLO
- Onegu needs to do something to make a case and get towncred in order to not get lynched
Why does this make sense? Onegu makes a bad case and gets everyone to think it is a desperation scum move to throw a case on a townie. Mocsta uses this to survive MYLO and win the game after Onegu flips red.
Mocsta and Onegu basically proceed to avoid each other to make it not obvious that it is a bus. Mocsta tries to steer the lynch off of Onegu (what he has done the last few pages) and Onegu has been trying to keep a scum read on me.
The proof that the scum team is Mocsta/HF/Onegu is in these two posts by Holyflare:
On November 27 2013 13:48 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 13:47 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:46 Alakaslam wrote:On November 27 2013 13:44 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:43 Alakaslam wrote:On November 27 2013 13:39 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 27 2013 13:26 Mocsta wrote:
This is a fucking farce.
Corazon fake claimed... Is this for fucking real?
Holy.. u compared my role pm to Cora to show Cora fake claimed.
Why are you still assuming I'm scum?? I don't like this post. It looks scummy That is how people get their points across (Though I don't red stuff) It's a FoS, it isn't a ihu No, they did it multiple times and didn't follow up on it at all. Btw Moc: Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Sergei Mikhailov a Mobster (Vanilla Townie) . You so dislike the term mobster, you prefer to consider yourself a business man. You've never been implicated by the police, despite the dozen or so murders your family stands accused of. You are very much a neo-capitalist, having abandoned the old comunist regime at the height of the cold war, your ancient KGB connections still serve you well, allowing you to operate in the gray area between law and crime that is oh so difficult to pin down. Crush those who would bring down your "business" This is my real role That always happens. That probably means they dropped them. If not maybe they are just as scummy. Mocsta told me one of my posts was "too constructed" and then continued to not talk about me. He just chimed in to say that post was scummy and then went onto other things. cz he [Mocsta] is scum <3
On November 27 2013 14:35 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta, we've been had by the bereft/cora/slam trio!
Why does HF refuse to think that Onegu is scum and then flip-flop on his Mocsta read? It's because HF wants everyone to think his Mocsta scum read was just desperation attacks on a townie. However, his inability to keep his story straight means that he is trying to hide the fact that he is scum buddies with Mocsta. He wants to have the Mocsta scum read for proof of scumhunting but HF doesn't want us to remember Mocsta's scumminess. It screams of a bus to me as well, simply as an excuse for activity.
In conclusion, this game makes sense from scum Mocsta's perspective. I am very confident for the above reasons that the scum team is Mocsta/Onegu/HF. Mocsta isn't a bad player. He's not going to contradict himself and calling him scum has to be more complicated than finding something scummy in his writing. I didn't figure this out until I thought about the game and what scum would try and do. Mocsta's actions fit the bill for what scum would do this game.
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+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +On December 02 2013 01:52 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:31 sciberbia wrote:
So the most pressing question is: should we lynch Onegu today? He has 3 votes if I'm not mistaken.
The sad thing is that unless we are going to lynch Cora instead I'm not sure we have much choice. There are 4 townies alive right now, and we need 4 votes to lynch. So if Cora is town, even assuming that we could get the other 3 townies on a scum, we wouldn't end up getting them lynched. If we NL, then scum just delays and we are in a strictly worse position tomorrow.
I'm 100% sure that I'd rather lynch Onegu than Cora, but I'm really not too confident that Onegu is a better lynch than Slam. Onegu has been trying really hard recently, and I dunno it just makes me feel uneasy. On the other hand, Rean's slot was fairly scummy and Alakaslam is hard to read/understand.
@Bereft
If it was all up to you, who would you rather lynch today between Slam and Onegu? in response to this, i think an onegu lynch is the right move. i agree with mocsta's post here: + Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 14:22 Onegu wrote:Can people read my cora case please?+ Show Spoiler [Boring!!!!!] +Cora plays very anti town, doesnt have a town PoV, contridicts himself multiple times. His day one lynch target 24hours in is aqua, his case is 2 points, first aqua goes from null to scum on cora with no reason, 2 aquas case and points on rean is wrong. Aqua responds, cora says his reason on point 1 is smoke and mirrors, and accepts aquas points on rean are legit. So cora has 2 points against aqua and one is completely shattered and cora accepts it is. So cora unvotes amd moves on. WRONG!!! Cora says nothing has changed and aqua should still be lynched. Rayn and mocsta shit start, aqua still who he wants to lynch. But does he push his lynch, other than saying he still wants to lynch him, he doesnt mention him. Doesnt say hey guys really aqua is scum check out my case, or bring up new points at all. His first case is BS, its scum attemptimg to look active. - In my head I was thinking: I'm bored, how about I give Onegu some courtesy and give it a full read over. - Then I realised "WOW!" Onegu has an 11page filter, maybe... *just* MAYBE he could be town. BAH-BAM !!!!! - Then I realised something else. You see Onegu: Its impossible for Holyflare and Corazon to be on a scum team. (1) Thread sentiment wanted an Onegu lynch (2) Corazon wanted a Onegu lynch (3) Its MYLO (4) Corazon fake-claimed to get you lynched (5) Holyflare Opposed the lynch as hard as he could.. even getting Corazon to admit the fake-claim Whats the problem?The problem is that scum want to win. As quickly as possible.Give that it is MYLO, if Corazon was scum -- there was no need for Holyflare to battle him, put pressure on him.. heck even get Corazon to admit fake-claiming. Further, if Corazon was *WRONG* about Onegu... Holy woulda just sat by idly and let scum mislynch to finish the game. Onegu, we already knew you were scum before all this. Now its proven and irrefutableYou *will* be lynched tomorrow. The only decision this town has to make is between Chezinu and Alakaslam. Considering Chezinu flipflopped his vote, and Slam stayed true. Nothing has changed. Holyflare, Onegu, ChezinuIts just a matter of waiting out the required cycles. *TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK* HF writes this when we're full steam ahead on onegu (post-cora's "night check"): Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?
If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?
If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.
Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?
Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.
Tl:dr
Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu. i think this post is pretty damning because he writes it at a time when he didn't think he'd be on the chopping block. HF realized cora's cop claim was fake (probably because the "town" in (town investigator) didn't match the scum team's own fake cop claim). if onegu was town, there was absolutely no reason for him to defend onegu, because if we mislynched onegu, scum would have won. and if somehow the game lasted another day, corazon would be in hot water for his fake claim and scum would be set up to push another mislynch. so really there was zero incentive for HF to prove cora's claim was fake. i also don't put much stake in onegu's pages of written notes (sorry onegu  ). to be quite frank, i think i'd be more inclined to take notes as scum than town to keep track of all my running lies!! as mocsta has said, BAM BAM!! i think we are over thinking this one. what we need to focus on is if we are sure mocsta is town and slam is the last scum.
Also, you've sold me on Onegu. Let's make it happen.
##Vote: Onegu
I agree that, given Onegu flips town, finding the last scum between Mocsta and Slam is nontrivial. I'm having a hard time deciding what to base that call on.
Slam hasn't really done anything to establish his towniness, whereas at least Mocsta has been quite active and has ostensibly been playing 'pro-town'. And Rean's play has been covered.
On the other hand, the night kills point towards Mocsta being scum than Slam. Also, ever since Cora and I voiced suspicions of him today, he went even more spazztic than usual, jumping around from person to person, calling nearly everybody scum except you. It's suspicious to me.
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On December 02 2013 02:46 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 02:35 cDgCorazon wrote:On December 02 2013 02:31 Onegu wrote:On December 02 2013 01:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
Onegu, if you weren't scum I would call you a hypocrite. You spent 3 days promising a case on me before making it. There is this thing called sleep that is really lovely.
Mocsta case coming soon, 1-2 hours. I have to make it look all pretty for y'all. I got it in before deadline, you are waiting until after deadline. If you make it before deadline like you say you are then great. The deadline is in 10 hours. Can you please give up, scum? You're looking really pathetic. Ggnore. Im out no more posts until post game. This game has been very fustrateing, like I put a bunch of effort into this game as evidenced by my notes, and I understand people thinking I am scum and not wanting to listen to me, but saying even after I flip they wont take a look. And I never let people get under my skin but cora has done it this game, I guess gratz to him...
Onegu if you are VT we deserve to lose the game and you need to drastically reinvent your play. If you are scum, carry on.
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On December 02 2013 03:02 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 20:53 Bereft wrote:
I can't think of a reason why a mocsta scum team would make this move. all it does is cast doubt on the town read almost the entire thread has on him. the only pairing where this move would make sense is if it were a moc/scib scum team. which is not impossible but pretty much gg if so.
@Bereft What if Mocsta/Onegu is scumteam and Mocsta figured that he would be able to get a mislynch on Slam, but was worried for whatever reason that Chez was blue and would be able to confirm Slam as town or Mocsta as scum? Seems very plausible to me. This is why I think the Chez kill points towards Moc being scum (or possibly even you/cora) over both Slam and Onegu.
i've spent some time thinking about this [off the thread], and i think it's difficult to say which pairings over other pairings would be inclined to kill chezinu over you or mocsta.
regardless of an onegu/slam or onegu/mocsta scum team, the chezinu NK speaks to the scum team being paranoid of chezinu's claim and chezinu solving the game. i think this could be applicable for both pairings, but potentially a riskier move for onegu/mocsta. say the NK was someone unsurprising, such as yourself. mocsta has more town cred than chezinu, so if it came down to mocsta's word vs. chezinu's word, i would almost undoubtedly believe mocsta over chezinu. if it were chezinu's word vs. slam's word, it's pretty fair game.
either way, i think the NK is useful to evaluate in conjunction to existing reads, but by itself it's somewhat pointless.
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On December 02 2013 03:07 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +On December 02 2013 01:52 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:31 sciberbia wrote:
So the most pressing question is: should we lynch Onegu today? He has 3 votes if I'm not mistaken.
The sad thing is that unless we are going to lynch Cora instead I'm not sure we have much choice. There are 4 townies alive right now, and we need 4 votes to lynch. So if Cora is town, even assuming that we could get the other 3 townies on a scum, we wouldn't end up getting them lynched. If we NL, then scum just delays and we are in a strictly worse position tomorrow.
I'm 100% sure that I'd rather lynch Onegu than Cora, but I'm really not too confident that Onegu is a better lynch than Slam. Onegu has been trying really hard recently, and I dunno it just makes me feel uneasy. On the other hand, Rean's slot was fairly scummy and Alakaslam is hard to read/understand.
@Bereft
If it was all up to you, who would you rather lynch today between Slam and Onegu? in response to this, i think an onegu lynch is the right move. i agree with mocsta's post here: + Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 14:22 Onegu wrote:Can people read my cora case please?+ Show Spoiler [Boring!!!!!] +Cora plays very anti town, doesnt have a town PoV, contridicts himself multiple times. His day one lynch target 24hours in is aqua, his case is 2 points, first aqua goes from null to scum on cora with no reason, 2 aquas case and points on rean is wrong. Aqua responds, cora says his reason on point 1 is smoke and mirrors, and accepts aquas points on rean are legit. So cora has 2 points against aqua and one is completely shattered and cora accepts it is. So cora unvotes amd moves on. WRONG!!! Cora says nothing has changed and aqua should still be lynched. Rayn and mocsta shit start, aqua still who he wants to lynch. But does he push his lynch, other than saying he still wants to lynch him, he doesnt mention him. Doesnt say hey guys really aqua is scum check out my case, or bring up new points at all. His first case is BS, its scum attemptimg to look active. - In my head I was thinking: I'm bored, how about I give Onegu some courtesy and give it a full read over. - Then I realised "WOW!" Onegu has an 11page filter, maybe... *just* MAYBE he could be town. BAH-BAM !!!!! - Then I realised something else. You see Onegu: Its impossible for Holyflare and Corazon to be on a scum team. (1) Thread sentiment wanted an Onegu lynch (2) Corazon wanted a Onegu lynch (3) Its MYLO (4) Corazon fake-claimed to get you lynched (5) Holyflare Opposed the lynch as hard as he could.. even getting Corazon to admit the fake-claim Whats the problem?The problem is that scum want to win. As quickly as possible.Give that it is MYLO, if Corazon was scum -- there was no need for Holyflare to battle him, put pressure on him.. heck even get Corazon to admit fake-claiming. Further, if Corazon was *WRONG* about Onegu... Holy woulda just sat by idly and let scum mislynch to finish the game. Onegu, we already knew you were scum before all this. Now its proven and irrefutableYou *will* be lynched tomorrow. The only decision this town has to make is between Chezinu and Alakaslam. Considering Chezinu flipflopped his vote, and Slam stayed true. Nothing has changed. Holyflare, Onegu, ChezinuIts just a matter of waiting out the required cycles. *TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK* HF writes this when we're full steam ahead on onegu (post-cora's "night check"): Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?
If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?
If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.
Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?
Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.
Tl:dr
Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu. i think this post is pretty damning because he writes it at a time when he didn't think he'd be on the chopping block. HF realized cora's cop claim was fake (probably because the "town" in (town investigator) didn't match the scum team's own fake cop claim). if onegu was town, there was absolutely no reason for him to defend onegu, because if we mislynched onegu, scum would have won. and if somehow the game lasted another day, corazon would be in hot water for his fake claim and scum would be set up to push another mislynch. so really there was zero incentive for HF to prove cora's claim was fake. i also don't put much stake in onegu's pages of written notes (sorry onegu ). to be quite frank, i think i'd be more inclined to take notes as scum than town to keep track of all my running lies!! as mocsta has said, BAM BAM!! i think we are over thinking this one. what we need to focus on is if we are sure mocsta is town and slam is the last scum. Also, you've sold me on Onegu. Let's make it happen. ##Vote: OneguI agree that, given Onegu flips town, finding the last scum between Mocsta and Slam is nontrivial. I'm having a hard time deciding what to base that call on. Slam hasn't really done anything to establish his towniness, whereas at least Mocsta has been quite active and has ostensibly been playing 'pro-town'. And Rean's play has been covered. On the other hand, the night kills point towards Mocsta being scum than Slam. Also, ever since Cora and I voiced suspicions of him today, he went even more spazztic than usual, jumping around from person to person, calling nearly everybody scum except you. It's suspicious to me.
I agree (also I assume you mean "given Onegu flips scum"). as I said a while ago:
On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote:
i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts.
basically it comes down to a very pro-town looking player with small red flags everywhere vs. one huge question mark. at the moment i'm inclined to think mocsta is town, but he's making me a bit nervous with his posting today. who we really need to hear from is slam right now. where are you dude? you've done zero scum hunting and just echoed thread sentiment since you joined. it's hard to tell if this is because you're uninvested / uninterested due to replacing in or just plain scum. did you bother reading the thread for what happened before you replaced in? (this is a serious question.) let's hear what you're thinking.
p.s. don't worry cora i'll read your case now.
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Yea that reminds me
On December 02 2013 00:31 Alakaslam wrote:
I was gonna Unvote but now we are consolidating...
Cora, old Mocsta looks bad enough but so do I. I dislike looking at people from the perspective that they are scum, it's like purposely getting confirmation bias.
Couple that with new Mocsta and I say, don't. I think he is on the right track, I also admit I was generally ignoring sciberia as established town (much like ignoring bereft; I mean not filter diving looking for scum). May be time to do that!
@Slam
Why were you gonna unvote? Is there somebody you would seriously consider lynching today besides Onegu? In the same vein, given that onegu flips scum (got it right this time), who do you want to lynch tomorrow?
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Like you guys really think coras case and push on aqua day one was real? Read my case!!! sad pandas
/end rant
No more posts
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On December 02 2013 06:08 Onegu wrote:
Like you guys really think coras case and push on aqua day one was real? Read my case!!! sad pandas
/end rant
No more posts
Why is your case on me limited to D1? Why haven't you analyzed my play for the whole game?
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On December 01 2013 20:08 Mocsta wrote:
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.
Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.
The bold is a complete lie. I voted for JJD. Why did you blatantly lie Mocsta? Were you expecting town not to look at the votecounts? Why are you throwing lies and shit accusations everywhere?
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On December 02 2013 02:56 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Mocsta] +On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count DAY 1 cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu, thrawn2112, sciberbia, HolyflareAquanim (2): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneetRean (0): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneetOnegu (0): sciberbia, thrawn2112Bereft (0): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneetMocsta (0): raynpelikoneetraynpelikoneet (8): thrawn2112, Mocsta. Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Bereft, raynpelikoneet, cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet, thrawn2112, Holyflare, sciberbia, raynpelikoneetjampidampi (0): raynpelikoneetMocsta (1): Onegu, raynpelikoneetJarJarDrinks (0): raynpelikoneetNo-Lynch (1): cDgCorazon What stands out to me here is:(1) Rean/Slam: Useless vote; but was AFK the 2nd half of the cycle (2) Sciberbia: Helped to consolidate on Rayn; votes Corazon but is a dead vote as Rayn already had 6 votes. His votes are consistent with his cases though. (3) Holyflare: Dead vote on Corazon is odd. Need to check if Corazon chucked the shits at this vote (4) Onegu: Dead votes
Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count DAY 2 Bereft (0): thrawn2112Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, MocstaChezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, ChezinuJarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta sciberbia (0): Mocsta, ChezinuHolyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, ChezinuMocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, HolyflareThrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon What stands out to me here is:(1) Slam jumping onto JJD at a very opportune moment. (2) Onegu again throwing his vote away again (but I know I am town) (3) Holyflare throwing his vote away again.. this makes Corazon look slightly better due to the Day1 vote (4) Scibs with only 1 vote. Need to re-check his position on Onegu/Corazon (his Day 1 votes)
Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 11:51 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count DAY 3 Onegu (1): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Bereft, Alakaslam, Mocsta, sciberbia, Holyflare, cDgCorazon Mocsta (0): Mocsta, Chezinu, cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, HolyflarecDgCorazon (0): Onegu, Holyflare, cDgCorazon, HolyflareHolyflare (7): Bereft, sciberbia, Holyflare, Mocsta, Alakaslam, Chezinu, Onegu, Holyflare, Onegu sciberbia (0): cDgCorazonChezinu (0): cDgCorazonBereft (0): cDgCorazon, Holyflare, Onegu What stands out to me here is:(1) Corazon jumps around as much as Holyflare. From memory this was him chucking the shits. The key point is that he had a dead vote. (2) Onegu doesn't vote me for the first time. Instead follows Holy onto Bereft. His vote on Holy was a hammer in the sense it prevented HF from jumping ship. (3) Slam is in the middle of both Onegu and HF.
(1) Without a re-read, Scibs Day2 vote looks bad as he came on board before consolidation time. The firm vote on HF isn't worth any points as Bereft essentially nailed HF forcing consolidation. (2) Slams voting looks really bad. His play is quite far removed and he shows none of urge to improve his play like in other recent games. Reans filter also reads on the verge of scummy/useless town. (3) Corazon's dead vote on Onegu is a *BOLD* play Day3. Its possible to argue he was asleep - hence was never present to consolidate; but, jeez this looks really bad next cycle and considering HF went down early-ish into the cycle, Im tending to think this is too dumb a move to perform as scum. (4) Onegu and HF have some voting synergism. As I said before, I find it unlikely that scum would follow suit so closely, but its not impossible.
I think the best lynch for this cycle based on VCA is Slam (who I thought one of Chez/Slam was scum anyways).Then need to consider one of {Onegu, Sciberbia, Corazon}. To which, I am still probably leaning Onegu -- His sudden retrenchment of scum read on me seems unusual even given MYLO. Going to read HF now. ##Unvote
##Vote: Alakaslam @Mocsta Why do you keep drawing attention to 'dead votes' after every vote count? I don't understand your conclusions in this VCA. Seeing as there was really only one main wagon at the end of every day, you can call any vote not on the lynchee a dead vote. Is there anything necessarily scummy about that? Furthermore, I really don't understand how you can think this On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:
Scibs Day2 vote looks bad as he came on board before consolidation time.
You are essentially calling me scum because I was wrong. But how can you think that given the two immediately subsequent votes were Aquanim and yourself (who is also, assuming you are town, confirmed town to you). + Show Spoiler [start of JJD wagon] +On November 24 2013 17:28 sciberbia wrote:Lurking through the rayn lynch is by far the single scummiest thing anybody has done this entire game. I can't even imagine myself, as town, reading the 100 posts between pages 50 and 55 (the hour leading up to the lynch), and not posting my thoughts. That's crunch time. That's when the game is won or lost. It's when all the drama happens. The lynch was in question and everybody else online was vehemently discussing it, but JJD was just sitting there passing the time. On the other hand, I can easily see scum doing it. Rayn looked likely to be lynched so scum probably didn't feel much pressure. There's no reason for scum to be posting with a townie lynch coming down the pipeline. Furthermore here JJD expresses his opinion that Onegu is town and HF is scum, but says he will reread. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 22:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Gonna reread Onegu but I haven't thought he was scum @ all this game so I doubt that's gonna change. Not crazy about Holyflare so gonna look close @ him.
He never posts the results of this reread. He hasn't been defending Onegu today even though he's looked like the most likely lynch candidate. He hasn't been pushing an HF lynch either. As thrawn says he's too content doing nothing. Combined with what aquanim and thrawn have posted, this feels really right to me. Better than every other lynch.
##Vote: JarJarDrinks On November 24 2013 17:40 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 17:28 sciberbia wrote:
Lurking through the rayn lynch is by far the single scummiest thing anybody has done this entire game. I can't even imagine myself, as town, reading the 100 posts between pages 50 and 55 (the hour leading up to the lynch), and not posting my thoughts. That's crunch time. That's when the game is won or lost. It's when all the drama happens. The lynch was in question and everybody else online was vehemently discussing it, but JJD was just sitting there passing the time.
On the other hand, I can easily see scum doing it. Rayn looked likely to be lynched so scum probably didn't feel much pressure. There's no reason for scum to be posting with a townie lynch coming down the pipeline.
...
Dunno why it didn't quite reach my brain until this repetition, but yeah this is damning. ##Vote: JarJarDrinks On November 24 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote:
##vote: jarjardrinks*
Lets get a majority people !!! So what exactly is it about my vote that is scummy? + Show Spoiler +On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:Basic Vote Count DAY 2 Bereft (0): thrawn2112Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, MocstaChezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, ChezinuJarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta sciberbia (0): Mocsta, ChezinuHolyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, ChezinuMocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, HolyflareThrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon What stands out to me here is:(1) Slam jumping onto JJD at a very opportune moment. And here Slam is scummy for being on the 'consolidating portion' of the JJD wagon, right next to yourself. Basically I don't understand this VCA at all and would like you to expand on your thought process so I can see how genuine you're being. You point out pople for starting a wagon, consolodating on a wagon, and leaving their votes 'dead', but call all 3 types of voting behavior scummy. What would you consider to be townie voting behavior?
(1) Instant Majority is an important aspect of this game. Maybe I over-value it, but regardless, I was trying to consider who went against the grain in a non-committal way. Thats why I looked at Dead-Votes. Its not necessarily scummy. It was trying to find out avenues to pursue.
(2) It was clear. You had votes on Corazon/Onegu D1, and then are one of the first onto JJD. I said pretty clearly in the diatribe that I have to double check how you came onboard; but from that information solely - it looks bad.
(3) Slam is scummy based on having a +1 vote in the middle which seals the wagon.
(4) Townie voting behaviuor would be tied into the rationale behind the vote. I don't have time to do this for everyone. You are welcome to step in though.
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On December 01 2013 20:08 Mocsta wrote:
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.
Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.
On December 02 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The bold is a complete lie. I voted for JJD. Why did you blatantly lie Mocsta? Were you expecting town not to look at the votecounts? Why are you throwing lies and shit accusations everywhere? Someone is confirmation biased.
*I* pasted the votecounts for all 3 days. Did I comment on this in the VCA which followed after this.
*No* Because double-check showed it was wrong. Jesus Christ.. this game is lost because after Onegu you are just going to tunnel me and listen to no one. And because its majority lynch, you have all the power.
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On December 02 2013 03:02 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 20:53 Bereft wrote:
I can't think of a reason why a mocsta scum team would make this move. all it does is cast doubt on the town read almost the entire thread has on him. the only pairing where this move would make sense is if it were a moc/scib scum team. which is not impossible but pretty much gg if so.
@Bereft What if Mocsta/Onegu is scumteam and Mocsta figured that he would be able to get a mislynch on Slam, but was worried for whatever reason that Chez was blue and would be able to confirm Slam as town or Mocsta as scum? Seems very plausible to me. This is why I think the Chez kill points towards Moc being scum (or possibly even you/cora) over both Slam and Onegu.
Lol. this is ridiculous.
I have been pushing for a Onegu/Chezinu lynch for multiple cycles. I most certainly did not have a blue read on Chezinu.
Chezinu points towards *you* but somehow this is completely ignored in your analysis.
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On December 02 2013 03:07 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +On December 02 2013 01:52 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:31 sciberbia wrote:
So the most pressing question is: should we lynch Onegu today? He has 3 votes if I'm not mistaken.
The sad thing is that unless we are going to lynch Cora instead I'm not sure we have much choice. There are 4 townies alive right now, and we need 4 votes to lynch. So if Cora is town, even assuming that we could get the other 3 townies on a scum, we wouldn't end up getting them lynched. If we NL, then scum just delays and we are in a strictly worse position tomorrow.
I'm 100% sure that I'd rather lynch Onegu than Cora, but I'm really not too confident that Onegu is a better lynch than Slam. Onegu has been trying really hard recently, and I dunno it just makes me feel uneasy. On the other hand, Rean's slot was fairly scummy and Alakaslam is hard to read/understand.
@Bereft
If it was all up to you, who would you rather lynch today between Slam and Onegu? in response to this, i think an onegu lynch is the right move. i agree with mocsta's post here: + Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 14:22 Onegu wrote:Can people read my cora case please?+ Show Spoiler [Boring!!!!!] +Cora plays very anti town, doesnt have a town PoV, contridicts himself multiple times. His day one lynch target 24hours in is aqua, his case is 2 points, first aqua goes from null to scum on cora with no reason, 2 aquas case and points on rean is wrong. Aqua responds, cora says his reason on point 1 is smoke and mirrors, and accepts aquas points on rean are legit. So cora has 2 points against aqua and one is completely shattered and cora accepts it is. So cora unvotes amd moves on. WRONG!!! Cora says nothing has changed and aqua should still be lynched. Rayn and mocsta shit start, aqua still who he wants to lynch. But does he push his lynch, other than saying he still wants to lynch him, he doesnt mention him. Doesnt say hey guys really aqua is scum check out my case, or bring up new points at all. His first case is BS, its scum attemptimg to look active. - In my head I was thinking: I'm bored, how about I give Onegu some courtesy and give it a full read over. - Then I realised "WOW!" Onegu has an 11page filter, maybe... *just* MAYBE he could be town. BAH-BAM !!!!! - Then I realised something else. You see Onegu: Its impossible for Holyflare and Corazon to be on a scum team. (1) Thread sentiment wanted an Onegu lynch (2) Corazon wanted a Onegu lynch (3) Its MYLO (4) Corazon fake-claimed to get you lynched (5) Holyflare Opposed the lynch as hard as he could.. even getting Corazon to admit the fake-claim Whats the problem?The problem is that scum want to win. As quickly as possible.Give that it is MYLO, if Corazon was scum -- there was no need for Holyflare to battle him, put pressure on him.. heck even get Corazon to admit fake-claiming. Further, if Corazon was *WRONG* about Onegu... Holy woulda just sat by idly and let scum mislynch to finish the game. Onegu, we already knew you were scum before all this. Now its proven and irrefutableYou *will* be lynched tomorrow. The only decision this town has to make is between Chezinu and Alakaslam. Considering Chezinu flipflopped his vote, and Slam stayed true. Nothing has changed. Holyflare, Onegu, ChezinuIts just a matter of waiting out the required cycles. *TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK* HF writes this when we're full steam ahead on onegu (post-cora's "night check"): Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?
If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?
If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.
Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?
Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.
Tl:dr
Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu. i think this post is pretty damning because he writes it at a time when he didn't think he'd be on the chopping block. HF realized cora's cop claim was fake (probably because the "town" in (town investigator) didn't match the scum team's own fake cop claim). if onegu was town, there was absolutely no reason for him to defend onegu, because if we mislynched onegu, scum would have won. and if somehow the game lasted another day, corazon would be in hot water for his fake claim and scum would be set up to push another mislynch. so really there was zero incentive for HF to prove cora's claim was fake. i also don't put much stake in onegu's pages of written notes (sorry onegu ). to be quite frank, i think i'd be more inclined to take notes as scum than town to keep track of all my running lies!! as mocsta has said, BAM BAM!! i think we are over thinking this one. what we need to focus on is if we are sure mocsta is town and slam is the last scum. Also, you've sold me on Onegu. Let's make it happen. ##Vote: OneguI agree that, given Onegu flips town, finding the last scum between Mocsta and Slam is nontrivial. I'm having a hard time deciding what to base that call on. Slam hasn't really done anything to establish his towniness, whereas at least Mocsta has been quite active and has ostensibly been playing 'pro-town'. And Rean's play has been covered. On the other hand, the night kills point towards Mocsta being scum than Slam. Also, ever since Cora and I voiced suspicions of him today, he went even more spazztic than usual, jumping around from person to person, calling nearly everybody scum except you. It's suspicious to me. LOL. I am only looking at 3 people.
{Onegu, Slam, Sciberbia}.. Far from going spazztic.
Bereft
How are you buying this bullcrap? He says he agrees with you when both posts you quoted are items *I* put forth for discussion.
He thinks I am scum, yet blatantly agrees with your posts -- where you agree with me.
Its clear he is cuddling up to you.
If Sciberbia thinks Slam hasnt done anything to establish his townieness, why isnt he questioning him and pushing the thread?
Why is the thread dead when I am not here; yet, when I try and move the thread forward... lurkers like him that should have been posting content then want to call me scum.
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You're looking at Onegu/Slam/Sciberia but you don't want to lynch Onegu and you wanted to lynch me earlier?
You think Onegu is scum, you've said it at least 3 times. Now an Onegu lynch is on a silver platter and you don't want to take it? Why?
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On December 02 2013 08:07 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 20:08 Mocsta wrote:
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.
Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.
Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The bold is a complete lie. I voted for JJD. Why did you blatantly lie Mocsta? Were you expecting town not to look at the votecounts? Why are you throwing lies and shit accusations everywhere? Someone is confirmation biased. *I* pasted the votecounts for all 3 days. Did I comment on this in the VCA which followed after this. *No* Because double-check showed it was wrong. Jesus Christ.. this game is lost because after Onegu you are just going to tunnel me and listen to no one. And because its majority lynch, you have all the power.
You said your double check was about the Rayn lynch and then made a statement that conveniently had nothing to do with the JJD lynch.
The second sentence has the first part a true fact (that I no-lynched D1) followed up by a conclusion that was a blatant lie. If you had said that you were going to check the JJD lynch, then it would've been alright. But since you didn't, it is you throwing lies around.
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On December 02 2013 08:14 cDgCorazon wrote:
You're looking at Onegu/Slam/Sciberia but you don't want to lynch Onegu and you wanted to lynch me earlier?
You think Onegu is scum, you've said it at least 3 times. Now an Onegu lynch is on a silver platter and you don't want to take it? Why?
My vote is on onegu.
After speaking with him yesterday I firmed my read. What's the problem.
Bereft and me are the only two that are paranoid if losing the game. How the fuck is that scummy.
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I'm sorry moc, but I'm unwilling to consider that cora or scib are scum. so that leaves the final scum between you and slam. I've questioned my town read on cora and scib over the past 24 hours and I just do not think it's possible.
->whether intentional or unintentional, the fiasco surrounding cora's cop claim has made him a near confirmed town
->I struggle to find a single scummy thing in scib' s filter. if scum, he's managed to echo my thoughts and sentiments near precisely throughout the entire game thus far
it's true that the points which have convinced scib to vote onegu were initially raised by you. but what I don't understand is if you arrived at the same conclusion I did from the same event (that being HF's reaction to cora's cop claim), why did you doubt cora and waffle on the onegu lynch earlier today?
@cora I think you make a strong case. but some points you raised I'm unsure about. in particular, how the night kills make sense coming from a mocsta scum team. the thrawn and aqua night kills actually strengthened my mocsta town read. don't you think he put himself in quite a precarious position by getting rid of his 2 strongest town advocates? you, aqua, and thrawn were incredibly confident he was town, while scib and I had reservations. and if he was around for the deadline during your cop claim, why do you think he left you alive?
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On December 02 2013 08:18 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 08:07 Mocsta wrote:On December 01 2013 20:08 Mocsta wrote:
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.
Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.
On December 02 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The bold is a complete lie. I voted for JJD. Why did you blatantly lie Mocsta? Were you expecting town not to look at the votecounts? Why are you throwing lies and shit accusations everywhere? Someone is confirmation biased. *I* pasted the votecounts for all 3 days. Did I comment on this in the VCA which followed after this. *No* Because double-check showed it was wrong. Jesus Christ.. this game is lost because after Onegu you are just going to tunnel me and listen to no one. And because its majority lynch, you have all the power. You said your double check was about the Rayn lynch and then made a statement that conveniently had nothing to do with the JJD lynch. The second sentence has the first part a true fact (that I no-lynched D1) followed up by a conclusion that was a blatant lie. If you had said that you were going to check the JJD lynch, then it would've been alright. But since you didn't, it is you throwing lies around.
Lol. I didn't even remember you were on the jjd lynch. I thought you were against it.
What's the point.
Ultimately when thebfacts were presented by vca it wasn't discussed anymore.
Anything else was musings.
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Bereft
I was away for 2 days.
My original thoughts coming back were why the fuck is no one talking
So I injected musings
As I firm up my thoughts via vca and looking at holy I became firm on onegu.
What's the issue here?
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the issue is that you don't sound like a paranoid, confused townie. you sound like you are pushing an agenda. I believe you referred to scib as licking my balls and cuddling up to me. the word choice seems to me more indicative of someone trying to plant doubt than someone questioning assumptions and generating discussion. it raises a red flag is all.
do you still think onegu is irrefutably scum? do you think scib is more likely to be scum than slam?
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EPT
