EPTWorld Heavyweight Championship mafia - Page 2
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
slOosh at least started asking questions when he initially joined into the discussion although has not really contributed since then at least he read up to date or so it seems. He's not too into meta but is alright saying that oats' play is just like his meta view of him though which was a little odd. Need to hear more on that side of things. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 02 2013 18:38 Dirkzor wrote: I believe BH's rng post was meant to be what it turned out to be. Discussion starter. It worked. Great. Now lets move on and find scum. Shit I don't even know what to write... Been so looong. Oats seem either weird, confused or scummy. Not sure which yet. The first sentence still doesnt make sense to me after reading it 5 times (Hungover so might be my fault). it also baffles me that he seems so sure about who to lynch so early. There are other examples: This whole posts is nonsense aswell. But through all this I somewhat still think he is town... hmm... HF's rambling about meta and being weak is rubbish. Him jumping the rng wagon, as pointed out by Risen, without any good reason is rubbish. After this, despite that BH think he have been posting better, he havent really done anything. He has sheeping BH and using BH arguments to push oats. ##Vote Holyflare Really? I have plenty of reasons for doing it and I've explained them about a million times now. There is an entirety of posts between my first post and then that are not "rubbish". Despite the fact that I've seemingly used someone's arguements do you not still think the points that have arisen are apt in this context? Surely, in a game with no cop you do your utmost to seem the most towny and discover who is also a townsperson. How do you do that? Asking that person questions, finding connections between that person and others for later, has oats done any of this? No. Has risen done any of that? No. Sheeping a vote and giving weak reasoning yourself is in my opinion poor play, coming to the conclusion that someone is still town after all of the points made and the fact that you think his posts are nonsense is also just more poor decision making. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:15 Dirkzor wrote: Not different reasoning. He hasn't done anything. I said the in the first post and I stand by that. Add that to supporting rng "because BH said so" and him walking around BH's shadow is a great reason for me to vote him. I still dont get how it can be opportunistic? Had it been oppurtinistic if I had voted someone else or is it onle because it was HF? Do I have to say it again?? I've given reasons why I supported rng from my point of view not because BH said it so it must be good. Either way, I understand that you read town on oats but what reason did he have to ignore the points about other people in the game? Couple that with his inability to check up on me before determining I am actually scum what are the reasons that you lean town on oats?? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:16 slOosh wrote: I still think Risen is lame, but he hasn't posted yet. As for Dirkzor ... I'm leaning town on him. The thing reads like he came into thread while still developing thoughts, got called out and is all frazzled out for it. I disagree that voting HF is the easy way to go, because at the time three people (me then BH then clarity) had given town reads on him. Scum willingly voting HF after seeing three people give town reads means that they are ready to engage attention. So I don't think it was an easy "park my vote move along". Firstly this doesn't even make sense. Dirkzor just coming into the thread with a straight up single paragraph on me and then voting me over the guy he wrote the rest of the post on was outwright confusing to say the least. Why specifically would he even mention that much on oats compared to say, risen and ray (who nobody has so far even mentioned despite his ridiculous 2 posts)? What you imply is that he actually had read the thread in its entirety to know that 3 people had given town reads on me. When you see his next post: On October 02 2013 19:15 Dirkzor wrote: Not different reasoning. He hasn't done anything. I said the in the first post and I stand by that. Add that to supporting rng "because BH said so" and him walking around BH's shadow is a great reason for me to vote him. I still dont get how it can be opportunistic? Had it been oppurtinistic if I had voted someone else or is it onle because it was HF? Followed by: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 20:11 Dirkzor wrote: Thank you. Ok. So I went back to find evidence that HF have been sheeping BH. Not much was found... Only little thing was this (and it's not really worth noting in the sheeping department): Other then that HF have been more original then I said he had been. Hmm.. That clashes with my previous belief. After re reading I'm also leaning more scum on oats. But I'm not sure it is entirely because of re-reading or just because I now think HF looks less scum. The problem with oats is that he have done some wierd shit as I pointed out earlier. But the feel I get when reading his filter is of someone who cares... It clearly shows that he in fact did not read the thread and only the beginning/my filter. He doesn't value his vote, he doesn't read the thread before posting a conclusion and then backtracks when people call him out on it claiming to have 'reread'? Lastly, On October 02 2013 22:38 Dirkzor wrote: Maybe I didn't value that vote so highly. Maybe I did just want to stir up things to see what fell out. That's a complete 180 from what he was expressing before. It seems like a fishy way, as people have mentioned, to try and appear like he was doing it all on purpose all along. ------------------------------------------------------- Also, sloosh, you have still not answered our posts about: On October 02 2013 18:37 Holyflare wrote: slOosh at least started asking questions when he initially joined into the discussion although has not really contributed since then at least he read up to date or so it seems. He's not too into meta but is alright saying that oats' play is just like his meta view of him though which was a little odd. Need to hear more on that side of things. Why is oats not portraying scum traits to you, especially after his unvote just today? Why have you not even mentioned it, and why are you basing off meta you aren't into? ---------------------------- As for oats, On October 02 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm. Ok so another reason why I think HF is town. If marv is scum with him, then Marv wont call him town. If marv is town, marv is probably right. So both ways, HF is town I think. I think that marv is null, he hasnt shown much of anything either way. That's ridiculous wifom and adds nothing to the entire topic. I don't like it one bit. Especially coupled with, On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote: I read/detunneled. ##vote Dirkzor also sheeping marv is cool. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont understand how you equate having a extreme stance on someone from their first post = scummy. Both me and Risen explained reasons to think that Holyflare is scum and you seem to think that Holyflare is scummy too. WHAT THE FUCK IS THERE TO CONVINCE YOU ABOUT ?? ? ? ?? ? I dont know if you are bad or if you are scum BH. Dirkzor had "an extreme stance on a first post" but it's ok to vote him now for it? Especially as you now say: On October 03 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Man both Marv and Clarity are saying the exact same things. If you agree with Marv on his vote, why is it such a factor to you that someone else agrees with it so openly? At least he has put forth reasoning into his voting, even if it is similar to marvs. Yours just straight up changed until you were pressured to post why you switched and even then you haven't told us why you are voting dirk? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
Firstly, I understand that people are finding scumreads/slips, however, most of them seem to be circumstantial. (i.e. Why would town "x" do this compared to scum "x", eg. Risen case.) What I would most like to see in a day 1 lynch is who is being the LEAST useful/scummy and who is just sliding by. In my eyes, the people under the main focus at the moment; Dirkzor, Risen, Sloosh, Rayn and Oats (clarity has been mentioned too) should be eliminated 1 by 1 in terms of rating of their overall posting to determine who is the optimal lynch for day 1 and ultimately who will be most useful in an endgame lylo scenario. So, Dirkzor I made my case on him HERE. Since this post, (bear in mind his vote was on me for a long time even though he supposedly "didn't think HF was scum anymore") he's had to defend himself a myriad of times, against the same points that I originally brought up in my linked case. Why has he had to do this? (+ Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 19:58 Oatsmaster wrote: LIES. So here I would assume you have a scumread on him. Then And now you think hes townie. After reading the same exact filter. Or saying you had. Which is the same thing. On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote: I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put... If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh... So, what reason do I have to vote/not vote him? Cons 1. His feel reads/lack of analysis at start 2. His contradictary statements (doesn't matter what he says, they were) Pros 1. Since the whole first post debacle, he's been pressured and I think responded fairly well. 2. He's been scumhunting (or somewhat following peoples scumhunts, classic sheeping?) 2.1 + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 15:38 Dirkzor wrote: Wat? Explain how you went from "Nothing to compelling" to then add some wiffle-waffle and suddenly you feel good about it? 2.2 + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 16:09 Dirkzor wrote: When readin Rayn's fillter he seems to be scooting by without trying to make to much trace or impact. From what he have done so far is thinking real long and hard about BH/oats interaction without ever coming to a conclusion. He don't want to comment on anything else in the game because "it have been said" and "i agree". What? Are you 100% in agreement? You don't have anything to add to any case or any resservations about any case or reaction thereof? This is the worst: BH is in the thread and want to talk about something that rayn have pondering. Instead of asking BH questions about the things he slides of and does nothing... Rayn looks like a good lynch actually. But I would still like to hear from Sloosh too. On October 03 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote: Okay, doing some thinking and reading. I'll also say that I'm suspicious of clarity for the fact that he's been talking a lot but most of it has been asking questions or sheeping. His vote of Dirk is scummy imo. Now that I've had time to think about it, I don't award him any credit for explaining my thoughts. this is something scum can and does easily do to look like a contribution. It wasn't worthless though so it's not a scumtell. That being said, I don't think clarity is actively disrupting the thread. In his questions an attempts to interact, although they can be incoherent, they look like he's trying to develop reads and interact with other players in a constructive way. I don't like that he doesn't have any serious long posts with analysis. His conversation is good, but he hasn't seriously followed it up. That being said, Clarity is generally active and in the thread. Like Dirk, he hasn't posted enough analysis, but at least he's around. I think his alignment will become more clear one way or another as the game goes forwards. I am not willing to lynch Clarity today. I don't like Dirk's entrance into the thread either. It doesn't make a huge amount of sense. he hasn't played amazingly, but this post in particular (LINK) gives him a little bit of credit in my eyes. He's willing to admit he is wrong later, but ultimately his contributions today are lacking. His filter is short and his only serious posts (link) (link) are summary or backtracked. Due to the fact that he hasn't produced serious analysis or things he has been held to, I am willing to lynch Dirk today. He is not my top option however. I don't like sloosh's reasoning for voting clarity. scummy, but not oats tier. I swing around now to Rayne. He is normally a big poster and interacts a lot. He writes cases, he pushes, he and I usually have serious interactions by this point in the game. This game, though, he seems quiet and subdued. I don't like this. His entire filter is questions, insinuations, questioning insinuations, and weird one-liners where he seems not to understand things. This is really not what I'd expect from rayne. His stances are all soft and fluffy, and he's really not contributing and maing his opinions and stances known. Rayne isn't afraid of that kind of thing. Rayne isn't afraid to lead. Not normally, at least. ##unvote Oatsmaster ##vote Rayne http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498&user=raynpelikoneet&view=all LOOK AT RAYN'S FILTER. It's not the filter of a town rayne. I know it's majority lynch, so I am currently willing to shenannie onto Oats or Dirk, but please, take a look at what i've liked and at rayne's overall filter. He's revealed nothing. He's pushed nothing seriously. He is all smoke and mirrors and no substance. 2.3 + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 19:47 Dirkzor wrote: Why was/is sloosh so sure I'm town? I'm having a hard time to figure this out. His reasoning and the way he see my timeline fit rather good with reality, but why did he come to that conclusion when no one else did/have? I know I'm town, but I also know that my first post wasn't stellar... Why was he defending me? Maybe it only looks weird to me since I know my alignment is town, but it looks preemptive if I was lynched. Anyone agree? I'm not sure I can just get over the first few posts no matter how he defends himself, he had "opinions" based on reading the thread/filters but then apparently didn't read. Apparently it was then all just a tactic to mess shit up? No, I don't think so. Dikzor is still one of my top lynches, although, I like his somewhat scumhuntyness too. Risen Risen has 1 page of filter, however, I haven't checked up on him to determine what his normal play is like. From the get go he was aggressive and put a vote on me. Which as I've pointed out previously, I liked. I found this to be a townlike attitude and after I responded he subsequently unvoted, although with no explanation. After that he kind of fell away for a bit and I felt that he seemed somewhat uninterested in the whole affairs of the game. When he returned he posted an entire case on clarity which I felt was somewhat lacking. His points can work both ways for town clarity and scum clarity and there were much more viable candidates at the time that were worth a lot more attention, especially as this is day 1 after all! I don't mind the case, at least it was some content and aggressive, in line with his nature that I've seen so far. What does strike me as suspicious was after people started critiquing it he just fell completely timid, something I would not expect him to do. He was shot down and did not push, he just asked people for their thoughts. He didn't fight his case. After that he's just disappeared. In conclusion, there isn't much to go by but the stuff that's there is aggressive and although seemingly confirmation biasy it got people talking about another potential person rather than beating the dead horse that other people were doing for a while. I like his aggressive nature, to the point where he would not be my first vote choice, but I want to see him defend himself a bit more. Sloosh He entered the thread with an opposite view to thread sentiment which people have taken in 2 ways: Scum with knowledge or town because of boldness. Obviously you can't really determine which but I like the fact that it got people talking about other areas. I mentioned the meta thing in my post addressed to him and he responded but also was questioning meta again after here: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 00:02 slOosh wrote: Scum marv would call scumbuddy HF scum? He then starts boldly defending Dirk out of nowhere despite dirks posts being obviously lackluster. He says that he follows Dirks thought process etc etc but it all seems to me to be too convenient. If you actually read sloosh's filter it reads like how dirk thought I posted - a whole lot of stuff but no meat. Is it not a scum tactic to repeatedly ask people for their reads and not do much in the way of scum hunting? This is what he is doing. + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 08:00 slOosh wrote: rayn, what parts of Risen's post do you find townish? + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 11:10 slOosh wrote: Ohh BH, thoughts on clarity? + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 13:47 slOosh wrote: You and clarity. Does he have a history of "beeing on your dick"? His overall posting style if you read his filter is non-stop defence on everyone that is being attacked. There is only one accusatory part and that is his vote on clarity, which did not make sense from what he was posting. He goes from nothing compelling: here to: One piece of wiffle-waffle and then I change my mind This was totally out of line from what he was previously posting. His defence on Dirk despite his posting, his defence on others in the thread to straight out accusing someone he just said a case wasn't too compelling on makes him stand out like a sore thumb. He is probably my highest priority for lynching right now. Rayn What can I say but mirror other peoples thoughts? BH, Dirk etc. have all pointed out that his posts are shit. BH mentions his meta and I've done some reading, he makes cases, he participates. So far he's posted NOTHING that is helpful at all, literally one liners etc saying that he's read the thread and is contemplating what the fuck was happening between BH/Oats etc. I don't really need to explain anymore as you can just read his filter. He is my joint top lynch with Sloosh. Oats He starts out with his vote on me, convinced I am scum etc etc. He has the whole debacle with BH in which nothing really happens, he defend the fact that his vote is still on me, however, does not try and question it or contemplate that anyone else could be scum. I attribute this to the fact that it was early on in the game and there was no total alternative but it still seemed a bit tunnely to me (Which he actually addressed later on when he unvoted). + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote: All those words. That dont mean anything. I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? He tells me to stop posting long posts, and that the points had no merit but then unvoted me after he re-read the next day. Which I also like about him. He's not afraid to admit that he was wrong and tunnel visioned. He's posted a lot of bs about how people can be scum if someone else is scum which seemed a bit like he was foreshadowing future events ie. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm. Ok so another reason why I think HF is town. If marv is scum with him, then Marv wont call him town. If marv is town, marv is probably right. So both ways, HF is town I think. I think that marv is null, he hasnt shown much of anything either way. I think Oats is making points about people that were original (ie. risen, although they work both ways) and he has stuck to Dirkzor, which I think was good seeing as people seemingly dismissed everything about him. I honestly think a lynch on oats would be a bad thing at this current point in time. I know my vote was/is on him but that was because I had been called out urgently yesterday and I apologise. However, for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: Sloosh | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holyflare. First of all, this is bullshit: Why would you say this? Also why did you hide your vote on Oats behind RNG as it was not RNG for you? I did not hide it on Oats, I've explained this countless times. I do not know anyone here, so I would rather sit on an RNG determined vote, barring anything obviously striking. Which it turns out has happened and now I've switched my vote. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you understand when Blazinghand says "RNG = Oats" it's no more a random lynch. It's a lynch on Oats that Blazinghand randomized? That's the same fucking thing?? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: So what did you expect Oats to do when people in thread were you, BH and him (and to some extent Risen)? How was his play tunneled? Have you read this shit? I've made at least 1-2 cases on oats that explained all this. You aren't helping my view of you. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: No it's not. It is not. If you know the target before you say if you agree/not with a random lynch it's no more a random lynch. Oh, now I know where you're coming from. While, yes, that makes sense for other people. However, since I do not know anybody here it is in fact random for me. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Your cases were bad. Now, again, how was Oats' play tunneled and what he should have done instead of trying to figure out people's alignment that were actually posting at that time? Then you've read jack shit. On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote: Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? On October 02 2013 14:08 Holyflare wrote: The fact you can't just click my profile (you can even see my post count??) and see that I've only been in newbie games is just more testament to your alignment. Shouldn't you be discerning these answers before you know that "He's surely scum".? My case before all these things said things similar to all this. Please don't insult things you haven't been bothered to actually read. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:52 marvellosity wrote: Play nice, Holyflare, or I'll have to spank you. It would be different if a guy that said he has read the thread and then made a list post only to question things that have already been answered didn't say these things. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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