EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XLV
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Holyflare
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Holyflare
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Holyflare
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Holyflare
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On July 31 2013 07:33 RDaneelOlivaw wrote: I spend my day erasing bugs in code...time to do the same thing at night! Mwahaha While I'm all for the odd joke, when somebody posts something like this they come accross as incredibly scummy and warrant further inspection. | ||
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Holyflare
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Umasi, your reads for the last games are extremely helpful, thank you! | ||
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Holyflare
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i.e : Who are the people you find most suspicious? Any notes you have on other peoples play styles Any links you have found between people; eg. people defending others that arouse suspicion. Most commonly scum tend to bandwagon with the rest of the town when they do not know what to say, watch out for these people. It is within the interest of townies to play incredibly pro town so as to eliminate suspicion from themselves and make the mafia play super pro town to blend in. When the mafia is forced to do this they are actually helping town further their search, and if they do not, well you have found the scum to lynch! | ||
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Then there are also the people that draw suspicion to themselves via apologetic acts about how they can't post as much today or how it is their first game, not saying that you are suspicious to me reps (yet?) but that is generally how people will try and pass under your radar. | ||
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On July 31 2013 11:02 DeusXmachina wrote: I am going to take a stance. Reps is scummy. He is going completely overboard with the noobie innocence routine. He already let us know before the game started that he was new to mafia. Why does he have to keep reminding us. Furthermore, he says, "Trying not to be a hated lurker is kind-of hard". Why is it hard for you? Are you constantly reminded that you need to post but you are fearful of sticking your neck out. How scummy of you reps. Who else is with me? Hold up there skippy, while yes, he has been somewhat repetitive, the day is young; he is after all new. I AM interested to hear his replies to the questions you have raised though. | ||
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Holyflare
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These posts from you all specify how we should move the game forward and yet your input to doing that was minimal, until now. On July 31 2013 11:02 DeusXmachina wrote: I am going to take a stance. Reps is scummy. He is going completely overboard with the noobie innocence routine. He already let us know before the game started that he was new to mafia. Why does he have to keep reminding us. Furthermore, he says, "Trying not to be a hated lurker is kind-of hard". Why is it hard for you? Are you constantly reminded that you need to post but you are fearful of sticking your neck out. How scummy of you reps. Who else is with me? The way you have phrased this post implies complete knowledge that he is a scum and are trying to get people to bandwagon with you. With the little amount that we have seen making a call this early with the small amount of imformation that you do have is something a scum themself would do to eliminate a townsperson. | ||
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On July 31 2013 11:43 StiMaDDict wrote: Logic flaw. Also why are you defending Reps? I am not defending him, if anything his reply to Deus' post made me more suspicious of him. What I AM trying to avoid is a first few hour bandwagon that would deviate from discussions that we could potentially be having to determine who else is town. | ||
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On July 31 2013 11:50 StiMaDDict wrote: @Holyflare: Your thought on Reps' response, please sir. @Deus: If you are gonna joke, joke. If you are gonna be serious, be serious. Don't mix those two. Also I know that mafia has flavor but use common language if you would be kind, such as town, scum, and lynch. Lastly, if you are voting, announce it in this thread as well. My thoughts on reps are still undertemined, the posts Deus is referring to are generally all pre-game. IF anything reps has progressed the discussion of the town through this post: On July 31 2013 07:59 reps)squishy wrote: So I have read a few TL Mafia games to try to get a grasp of the game. People love lynching people who don't post. What do you guys think of non-posters? Should we lynch them and hang them in the entrance of the town to let them all see that scums are not allowed here? That was actually a somewhat productive post. It got people talking, a pro-town move if any. He has mentioned being new once in this day so to call that into the open so soon is beyond me, I would have personally waited for another one or asked some leading questions. | ||
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On July 31 2013 12:05 DeusXmachina wrote: Reps is in no serious danger. If he is town he should be able to defend himself. The discussion is opening up. We can look at several important factors: 1. Is anyone trying to defend reps? 2. Who is not posting their opinion? 3. What does reps have to say in his defense? 4. I am sure you guys have more to add. Hopefully we can expose more than just reps intentions. While I know what your intentions 'are', you have gone about it in the wrong way. You falsely accused someone of repetition when it has happened once, that is not a way to determine peoples alliances unless you mistakingly thought his post-game posts were in the day. It is also 4-5am in Europe so half the people won't reply for another few hours. I will also be off to bed shortly so if anyone has anything to ask me before I go, say it now please. | ||
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On July 31 2013 12:08 StiMaDDict wrote: Contradiction? Only discussion that Reps's post brought up was this. Nothing particular useful, in my humble opinion. You stated your opinion and Umasi kind of dismissed it in joking manner. If you think this particular topic was a good starting point for a discussion which is evidence from the fact that you answered it and brought it in your 'defense' of Reps, why did you not keep this on the table and press others to voice their opinion on lurkers? I have seen reps post only a few times and so my overall suspicion of him is still undertermined, if you can make a call off of 2 posts then go ahead. His reply to Deus increased my suspicion but that only makes me wonder if he is truly just a newbie bad town or a scum, not for certain, hence undertermined. His post asking about peoples views on lurkers is more productive in terms of getting the ball rolling than Deus' posts that Umasi has highlighted previously. However, I do not feel that talking about people's opinions on lurker votes was a good topic to get the ball rolling and so did not follow up on it. Let me just reiterate this for you, I am not on the defence of anyone here, I am pointing out the facts of what is occurring. | ||
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Holyflare
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On July 31 2013 12:15 StiMaDDict wrote: It seems as if you know Reps' alliance, hmm.. Also if you read Deus' accusation, he did differentiate Reps' pre-game post and in-game post. Falsely accusing someone of repetion does not equal falsely accused of being scum. While he did say that he mentioned being a noob in pre-game that has no relevance to here as he did not receive his role then. Saying that he is a noob within the game can be taken both ways (as a scum move or newbie move) and so when Deus' did his bold accusation it shocked me how he could be so forward so soon. However, the more I see reps posts the more I become confused. On July 31 2013 12:21 reps)squishy wrote: Well taking that DeusXmachina has already posted to lynch me Here I am going to remain neutral and NOT lynch him he may be town and, the more town the better right? It is day one and despite him going against me there is no evidence that he scum or an aggressive townsman or something else. This gives me the impression that he wants to be on the good side of the town and not potentially lynch off one of the townies. Just a read though. | ||
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On July 31 2013 14:53 Umasi wrote: reps, I'll tell you two useful things~ A: If you post and want to edit the post, you can use the handy acronym EBWOP (edit by way of post) and add/rephrase whatever you want to. B: there's a handy quote button, use it. Regardless~ fuck I'm not sold on that response at all, reps. Maybe Deus actually fucking nailed you early on. Who are your top scum reads and who are your top town reads? I'm not sure we should be discussing peoples town reads this early on, it can be left to a later day. It tells mafia who to kill, if they eliminate the people that people are leaning towards in town then we are still back to square one. Mafia reads on the other hand are the things we do need to discuss; On July 31 2013 15:53 reps)squishy wrote: Stuff like this when the guy was under suspicion to begin with makes me think that he thinks he's clear after the Deus accusation and thus can afford to not fully contribute and mess around. Reps I want to hear some analysis; 1. Who do you think is mafia? 2. Are there any people that seem in collaboration? I want some actual analysis please, not some half hearted responses. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 20:14 Zyrre wrote: Reading through filters this morning trying to make some sense of the DeusX->reps->Umasi/alakaslam exchanges. reps: This post seems to be very town at first to me, however, following this post is 2.5h of posts where suspicion is aimed at DeusX instead. Then reps decides anyway to post this: If he was going to point by point defend himself, why not do it right away? Seems overly defensivve too me since people did not jump on the wagon with DeusX and instead was questioning him at the time. Later, he posts this: To me it seems Alakaslam was saying that there was evidence DeusX was scummy. Even if he misread this as there being evidence that he(reps) was scummy, why would he as a proclaimed newbie claim his role when there was even talk about how very situational it was in the pregame? All this together seems very scummy to me, confused to bad townie at best. DeusX: His aggresion so early might seem scummy, but I think his strategy if he was scum is terrible. Yes as pointed out you can be vocal scum, but not in the way he is doing it. You would need to be much more neutral but still post a lot. Going all out and be the first guy to accuse someone first day, when chances are we will accidentaly lynch a town anyway, just why? No reason at all to do this. The only reason to start a new lynch would be if a mafia was already targeted which wasnt the case. In conclusion: he might be over-aggresive and his arguments may be weak, but not a mafia read from me so far. I disagree that reps post seems townie at first, although I do agree with your later point on him trying to absolve himself after he was seemingly cleared makes him super scummy. I also think that Umasi has been somewhat linked to reps which may prove to be a possible mafia connection (I will explain further if you read down). Deus' posts although pretty aggressive were in the interest of furthering discussion, however, he could just be forcing any old lynch just as equally; for now he seems to be a townie or a neutral, unlikely to be mafia in my opinion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Show Spoiler + Umasi/alakaslam: A bit hard to make sense of some of their chatter. However, just on the point they are also starting their own lynch and generally being friendly like that in the thread would make me lean town on them. I dont see why mafia would make such a strong connection between themselves for no reason (if one of them turns out mafia the other would be instantly lynched at next opportunity). Conclusion: Pretty much neutral atm for me. On the obvious Umasi/alakasam circle: I'm not sure about these two, they have a strong connection yes but they also had that in the pre-game chatter. This can pose as a deceiving thing when it comes to determining who is town and who is scum. For now I'm not sure this link poses valuable information other than both of them haven't really contributed much analysis although they have posted a lot, which is a scummy move. They have also bandwagoned onto the Deus vote together which seems a bit abrupt. There is however another circle that I'd like to point out for you: On July 31 2013 11:57 Umasi wrote: I don't think that his talking about being newbie is a scum tell, since town do it too. it, like, could very well be, but calling him scum only because of this is hasty. I've made the same mistake before (see superfluous in last game) and turned out to be totally wrong, but I don't think it was a stretch. That said, pressuring him is a double edged sword, snce it could just scare him out of the game if he's town, and that LOOKS scummy, because people don't normally think that far ahead. This is the only thing Umasi has written on in length (other than the accusation on Deus) defending the person that was under direct scrutiny at the time. If this post contained similar content to his previous posts it wouldn't have raised suspicion, however, this is out of character for what he has been writing so far. His accusation of deus now leads me to believe that Umasi is in fact defending a fellow scum (reps), although this is purely circumstantial. If anything I argue that reps would be a good lynch for the town progression to see his flip and piece together parts of the puzzle. ##vote reps)squishy | ||
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Holyflare
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On July 31 2013 23:15 Zyrre wrote: Reading that Umasi post I remember it stuck out to me as well, forgot to mention it in my previous post. He did post this also however: (later on he goes back to saying reps is confused townie again) Asking reps to do some actual pro-town work there seems odd if he is indeed defending fellow scum, although I believe it was during his spam fest so maybe can't put too much weight on it. I agree about a possible weak mafia connection there, and probably will be voting reps to lynch. I'll hold off voting until the other guys start posting again though. I do agree with you that asking for him to post reads is seemingly a town move, although any scum can obviously do the same, it is a weakish pro town move. I, however, did initially assume Umasi was town, it was just his interactions with Alakaslam and then further with reps that has put me off him a bit further. I am interested to hear other peoples views on these connections though. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On July 31 2013 23:34 Nightcat99 wrote: I will give some opinion. Alakaslam: I have played with him one whole game, and 95% of the time i still have no idea what he is saying. Dont ask me read about him, Lynch him before LYLO. Umasi is a little strange to, especiallyy at the middle of the night with slam, but he recovers in the morning, i am not getting alot of scum tell from him. Gotard is being scumy, Infil made 1 post on day 1 and call a bunch of ppl netural, thats pretty much how you shall feel on day 1 and the throws a vote on him, kind of strange. I am off rep for now, there was quiet a bit of scum tell imo, but the chance of him actually just being new is quiet high as well, but i would like to ask Rep to point some fingers and tell us what you feel about people instead of responding nonsense. I would much lynch a lurker then any one thats posting at the moment, but there are still time, every one shall give some opinion on what is going on. I agree with your Gotard read, he straight out voted for infii mid discussion about other peoples suspicious activities after infii posted some reasonable claims. He is either trying to draw the conversation away from other people who are suspicious (ie. scum move) or he is playing very bad town. Gotard, I'd like to hear your defence for this action by the way, and I also want to know your suspicions on everyone else to this point. Your posts have been slightly lacking in the evidence basis and your straight up call out on infii raises you to the top of my suspicions list right now. On a side note, lynching a lurker now might not be the best idea if there are obvious slip-ups in peoples comments. Day 2 maybe think about lynching the lurkers - sc_a.M and RDaneelOlivaw have said nothing so far bar the On July 31 2013 07:33 RDaneelOlivaw wrote: scummy helpless post.I spend my day erasing bugs in code...time to do the same thing at night! Mwahaha | ||
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Holyflare
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On August 01 2013 02:44 reps)squishy wrote: I was about to vote RDaneelOlivaw, But people think Umasi and I have a alliance and to assure you I think it's kind of scummy for bandwagoning with me. So I decided ##vote Umasi On August 01 2013 02:45 reps)squishy wrote: sc_a.M has not posted since the game has started. RDaneelOlivaw posted one fluff since the game started. Just going to say he copied exactly what I have said and has no insight into anything, I am keeping my vote on reps for obvious reasons now. | ||
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On August 01 2013 03:35 Umasi wrote: hey I'm around. I still like deus for scum, and by transition not sold on reps being scum. Infii, why do you leave a backdoor for yourself? Why is neutrality a good thing? It's actually good to stir up discussion. I dislike the formatting of your list, but that can wait for another day. What's wrong with discussing town reads early on? The more opinions there are out there the better. And why do you say "townreads this early are silly" and then IMMEDIATELY ask him for possible scum teams? That felt like you were telling me my question was stupid, and immediately asking the same question. That didn't contribute anything, but it sure as shit looked like he did. And remember, general noncontributions are scummy, that's why everyone hates reps~he hasn't actually talked at all. Town reads and scum reads are two totally different kettle of fish. If you have a solid scum read that scum is forced to behave more and more like a pro town or face the eventual lynch, this is 100% pro town as a mafia that acts pro town is more likely to slip up as he has information that we do not. A pro town mafia is better than a dodgy town especially on day 1. As the game progresses you can garner information with your potential town reads, if you announce who your town reads are this early they will either be targets for the mafia to frame you as suspicious or narrow your circle of trust down and thus make it harder to progress with the elimination of scum. | ||
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Holyflare
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Having a verbal waterfall while it can be useful in the early stages at getting the ball rolling does not contribute as much as you may think. It is hard to determine if someone who says everything on their mind is just doing it to fit into a town perspective and seem like a town or if they are doing it to throw people off their scum trail. I would much rather believe someone who has done a thought out analytical filtered post than somebody who is just saying what is on their mind. This is why both you and alakaslam seemed suspicious to both me and a few others earlier on. A town read can give people a false perspective, especially post day 1 lynching, if you have posted one of your town reads that gets lynched and it flips to a scum who do you think the suspicion is drawn to? If you are a town it is better to keep these things to yourself and later on in the game you can announce who you think would be in your town circle as well as who is scum. This video WATCH THIS TOWNIES explains some of the reasoning that I am getting behind (only 30 mins) and is also helpful for newer players who want to know how to play town. | ||
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On July 31 2013 17:47 infii wrote: Unfortunately I can't be as active as I would like to be, but I'll try to post as often as I can. So I'll go ahead and tell you my thoughts up until now after reading all the posts. Umasi is at the top of my suspicious-list right now, because it seems he tries to stir things up and doesn't act neutral in any way. (e.g. anti deus - pro reps). However that is not enough for me to vote on him... it's still the first day, right? DeusXmachina took an early stance which backfired at him so now he tries to get clear of it. Seems legit aka town. Holyflare is pretty neutral until now, which is good. reps)squishy has stirred up some suspicion but that seemed to be unintentional, also I liked his defense. Nightcat99 is nr. 2 on the suspicious-list. Not many posts but the few ones have a chaotic flavor to them as in trying to confuse people. StiMaDDict acts generally neutral, seems like town. Alakaslam's last posts were totally bonkers. No idea what he is up to. Again, this were just my thoughts about everyone active in this discussion up until now, there are no facts that I can claim to be true or false. This is his only noteworthy contribution so far, it is weak at best and is somewhere on my radar, however, it is more contribution than others have put forward. It is hard to get a read on him and I'd like some more indepth analysis from him before I make my decision. I am also very interested to hear from Deus right now on his opinion of things. | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:22 DeusXmachina wrote: I am back. A lot has gone on, and there is a lot I want to talk about so this is going to be a long post. The focus of this post will still be on reps, however I wanted to address a couple things first. Alakaslam votes me because of the Kenpachi rule. Lol. That is just stupid. I never attacked a VT claim. Asking if Alakaslam can be trusted because he claimed VT super early is hardly an attack. There is some talk on people who are being neutral and others who are not contributing that much. Honestly, I think we should wait to target these people. If they are persistently neutral or lurking throughout multiple days then we have more reason to be suspicious. That being said, why would you even want to stay neutral? Being a vocal townie is not a bad thing. Just imagine if every legit townie was trying to be extremely pro town. Scum couldn't target one specific individual, and town would have a great basis for analyzing potential scum posts, i.e. a post that was trying to appear pro town. Okay, I still want to focus on reps. If reps is scum and he gets lynched, WOOT good job townies. If reps is a bad townie and he gets lynched, WOOT good job townies. Has anyone actually disagreed that reps is either scum or a bad townie? Honestly this didn't contribute much at all. In fact most of his posts are pointless. But here is what Interests me. Reps says he has been reading up on a few TL Mafia games and expresses his interest in non posters. He hasn't posted that much, at time he has been a complete lurker, and again non of his posts are actually that meaningful. For someone who has been reading TL Mafia games your doing a really shitty job so far reps, no offense. Furthermore, if he has been reading TL Mafia games why the hell does he appear so newbie still? Evidence of pointless posts: (I am not going to quote them because there is a lot) 1. Welcome Nightcat you have missed just about nothing. 2. Yeah just use the edit button and that thing. 3. Quotes me and says, "Meaningless fluff is awesome! But I guess that is not something to do." 4. oh (are you kidding me reps....) 5. Quotes and then says, "Happy?" (seriously............) 6. sc_a.M has not posted since the game has started. RDaneelOlivaw posted one fluff since the game started. 7. A picture (my favorite) Okay a lot of pointless posts there. He has not contributed much. That seems scummy to me. Furthermore, his defense of my accusation was poor. He doesn't even thwart any suspicion here, instead he actually claims his actions were scummy, which means that accusation was warranted. Couple more things. Ill be brief. Why would he vote Umasi? That makes little sense. He votes Umasi because Umasi came under recent suspicion. That seem like he is trying to blend in to me. Furthermore he presses his attack against Umasi, saying that anyone who defends him, like Umasi did, should appear suspicious? WAT? Yeah maybe if you are scum than anyone who defends you should appear suspicious. But if your townie why do you care? Furthermore, that is certanly not a reason to vote Umasi. In conclusion, At best he is a bad townie and we should lynch him. However, he seems very scummy to me. This is much of what I was saying about reps and that's why I voted for him. I'm interested to hear your reads on infii and gotard though. | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:44 reps)squishy wrote: The fact that he thinks I am hurting the town. The feelings are not hurt if I am lynched. But this is a Salem Witch hunt he was first to point I guess I am going to be first to die. "Even if he is not scum he is only hurting us at this point." This shows how little he cares if a townie is lynched. If he does not care that a townie is lynched now why do you think he is going to change in the future? You have not driven any of your insights into us at all so we cannot be certain whether you are just playing a bad town or not. The mafia meta video that you claimed to watch explains that you have to prove to town beyond all reasonable doubt that you are a townie otherwise you just become a bad person to read and can be scum or detremental to town. As we can afford to mislynch people a few times in a row it is often best to get rid of the people that would hinder you in the later stages of the game off early; lurkers, obvious scum, bad towns. If you truly want to reconcile your town worthyness now I want you to go through every filter and point out to me who you think are the most suspicious people so far. I want you to quote your reasoning and explain logically your choices. Only then will I believe that lynching you MAY be the wrong idea. Click this for the list of player names - click each name for a filter of their typing only | ||
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On August 01 2013 09:27 reps)squishy wrote: My vote against Usami was to insure that we did not have an alliance now that he has voted against me I will unvote him. and vote for ##Vote infii It's like you've ignored every attempt we've tried to save you....... just vote this guy out. | ||
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On August 01 2013 10:03 Nightcat99 wrote: Infil voting for you would prove absolutely NOTHING, at this point i wont be surprise if everyone votes for you. You can not put a vote on someone and expect them to vote you back , and if they did it wont be a read. Gotard needs to explain the vote on infil. @infil, neutral is not pro town, as a town you need to push everyone, go after every lead because that is the only way we can get reads. If we are netural and shakes hands the only thing that happens is someone dies each night, if you find anyone scummy, push them and ask them to defend themselves. Well i guess, i can see why you got a lot of fingers point at you now. he already did here although somewhat lackingly: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 03:00 Gotard wrote: Look at his 1st post. This is a useless list. Almost everyone is neutral. His argumentation is super weak. Zero quotes. Nothing. If you think someone is scummy put some effort into it. Posting like that is an easy way to fake some contribution which is scumy. Because it doesn't make much sense to lynch people randomly... Do you really expect that you will be 100% sure that someone is mafia before lynching that person? | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:50 Holyflare wrote: You have not driven any of your insights into us at all so we cannot be certain whether you are just playing a bad town or not. The mafia meta video that you claimed to watch explains that you have to prove to town beyond all reasonable doubt that you are a townie otherwise you just become a bad person to read and can be scum or detremental to town. As we can afford to mislynch people a few times in a row it is often best to get rid of the people that would hinder you in the later stages of the game off early; lurkers, obvious scum, bad towns. If you truly want to reconcile your town worthyness now I want you to go through every filter and point out to me who you think are the most suspicious people so far. I want you to quote your reasoning and explain logically your choices. Only then will I believe that lynching you MAY be the wrong idea. Click this for the list of player names - click each name for a filter of their typing only I don't know why people are ignoring how many times I've given reps the chance to redeem himself and he replies with one accusation on infii that people are already talking about or some random. I even tell him how to go about the analysis, but no he doesn't do it. Don't be stupid town and just lynch him off. | ||
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On August 02 2013 01:12 Alakaslam wrote: Holy flare you have caused me to expect better from you before this. So bandwagoning isn't scummy anymore I read. I wanted to get my 2 cents in before the night begins in case I was killed off and yes I am ashamed that the post is nothing like my usual well thought out replies, however, my phone is shit and I cannot quote more than one person at a time. Bandwagoning at this point of time is the only logical town move, you just agreed with me how obvious the lynch on reps is, so why did infii not just do the same? There is no point to leaving your vote on the person who won't get lynched. Obviously bandwagons in the course of the game can ve detrimental but this one is all about information and alliance revealing. He may have left his vote off knowingpy as mafia so it also looks like he was the one defending him. Slam there are also things that I want to quote you on when I get back to my computer later that you said last night while i was asleep about your apprehension to lynching reps. | ||
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Mega analysis post coming up by the way, I shall also try and vindicate myself within it for your peace of mind slam. | ||
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Yeh, hopefully it'll summarise everything so far and open up some new alleyways for discussion tomorrow so that even if I die the information is not in vain. On a lighter note....bbcode is a bitch, and alakaslams post count is also a bitch........ | ||
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I am going to assume for balance reasons that there is a serial killer. That's 2KP.... with at least 4 total scum players that's 7 townies left. There could however be more than 4 scum... | ||
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On August 02 2013 11:37 Alakaslam wrote: HWOAOAH!! A town ish post becomes scummy! DO NOT DISCUSS TOWNREADS AT NIGHT My giant post has a list of everyone, if I leave out people then aren't the town reads obvious from that anyway? Do you want me to cut out chunks of it or just leave it as it is for more information? | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:00 Umasi wrote: tbth, I don't know what to think of gotard, since he's always kinda scummy to me, but never REALLY scummy. He goes through times of not scum and very scummy, but at the moment I'm leading only kinda scummy. I actually liked how he picked up on infiis posts, and I heavily agree with him on a lot of points. The way he preformed his pressure is the only issue, but I think he's done more for town than infii. ~I still don't know why slam and stim think infii is town, if you want to enlighten me, go for it, unless I missed a post, in which case, point it out to me~ my thoughts on alakaslam~ upon rereading him, he "felt town". It's hard to understand what he's saying a lot of the time, but I've kind of gotten the hang of it, I think. He has six pages of gameplay in his filter, and there's no reason for scum to be as active as he has been, and he's thrown himself around with reckless abandon. I'm willing to overlook him till later in the game, I don't think he's who we should target lynch wise. This just reads a slightly bit scummy to me under the assumptions that I am going on. | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:05 Umasi wrote: feel free to elaborate. It will be in my big post don't worry | ||
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Umasi, gotard and nightcat99 as mafia and sc_am as a neutral (don't know about role he may just be survivor or sk) | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:19 Alakaslam wrote: HolyFlare, do you think Indio is scum? Not so much to be honest, that's why I'm asking about the umasi gotard nightcat link, specifically umasi and gotard on infii is what sparks my interest | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:23 Alakaslam wrote: Huh! My scenario is Gotard, scam and ???. Yours should be posted as late a you can And is feasible to me but surprised me. Probably because of my strong, unhealthy Umasi bias This is just a theory it isn't actually in my post yet, I just wanted to see your reply. I also have other theories. | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:00 Umasi wrote: tbth, I don't know what to think of gotard, since he's always kinda scummy to me, but never REALLY scummy. He goes through times of not scum and very scummy, but at the moment I'm leading only kinda scummy. I actually liked how he picked up on infiis posts, and I heavily agree with him on a lot of points. The way he preformed his pressure is the only issue, but I think he's done more for town than infii. ~I still don't know why slam and stim think infii is town, if you want to enlighten me, go for it, unless I missed a post, in which case, point it out to me~ my thoughts on alakaslam~ upon rereading him, he "felt town". It's hard to understand what he's saying a lot of the time, but I've kind of gotten the hang of it, I think. He has six pages of gameplay in his filter, and there's no reason for scum to be as active as he has been, and he's thrown himself around with reckless abandon. I'm willing to overlook him till later in the game, I don't think he's who we should target lynch wise. reading this is what just added to the theory I asked you about, if you read it in the sense that those 2 are in fact mafia then the link just seems all too obvious | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:34 Nightcat99 wrote: I am a little confused about this scenario. cause i am not seeing either oUmasi or gotard as scum and obviously not myself..... and the netural read on sc_am, i dont understand how any one can get a read on Sc-am with the limited amount htat he has posted. Nightcat you are only a possibility at this moment not definitive, I do think that Umasi and Gotard do have a link though. My neutral (3rd party) read on sc_am is because I think sc_am is scummy but I don't think that he is mafia because he all out gave up on everything yesterday and voted a no_lynch (Presumably what he thought was a beyond neutral move) so that maybe we would not look at him suspiciously. He has been absent from discussions because his neutral role does not involve doing anything till night times OR he is a survivor and so wants to sit on a fence and be ignored | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:42 Umasi wrote: Holy, are you going to try to post it all right before the night ends, or... like what's the eta on your post? I am not going to reveal a time. | ||
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On August 02 2013 12:49 Alakaslam wrote: Oh yeah, UK Sorry man it's only 8:50 pm where I am Duuuuuude you are in tomorrow Anyway sorry for big img, I should have spoilered I am from the future that's why I know all the answers | ||
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On August 03 2013 00:47 Blazinghand wrote: Night 1 ends at Saturday, Aug 03 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 20:00 GMT (+00:00). This game will follow a 24 hour night/48-hour day cycle. The day lasts for 48 hours. Who-ever has the majority of votes at the end of the day is lynched. If at the end of 48 hours, there is no majority, it is a no-lynch. Night lasts for 24 hours, and you can post at night. Shouldn't it be today or am I going mental? | ||
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 So it's just the time for England which is useful for me! | ||
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Note: These are purely for conjecture and what I have picked up so far from the time I have trawled through your filters and the voting pages. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zyrre I initially had a very strong town read for Zyrre, his posts were analytical yet not accusatory: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 20:14 Zyrre wrote: Reading through filters this morning trying to make some sense of the DeusX->reps->Umasi/alakaslam exchanges. reps: This post seems to be very town at first to me, however, following this post is 2.5h of posts where suspicion is aimed at DeusX instead. Then reps decides anyway to post this: If he was going to point by point defend himself, why not do it right away? Seems overly defensivve too me since people did not jump on the wagon with DeusX and instead was questioning him at the time. Later, he posts this: To me it seems Alakaslam was saying that there was evidence DeusX was scummy. Even if he misread this as there being evidence that he(reps) was scummy, why would he as a proclaimed newbie claim his role when there was even talk about how very situational it was in the pregame? All this together seems very scummy to me, confused to bad townie at best. DeusX: His aggresion so early might seem scummy, but I think his strategy if he was scum is terrible. Yes as pointed out you can be vocal scum, but not in the way he is doing it. You would need to be much more neutral but still post a lot. Going all out and be the first guy to accuse someone first day, when chances are we will accidentaly lynch a town anyway, just why? No reason at all to do this. The only reason to start a new lynch would be if a mafia was already targeted which wasnt the case. In conclusion: he might be over-aggresive and his arguments may be weak, but not a mafia read from me so far. Umasi/alakasam: A bit hard to make sense of some of their chatter. However, just on the point they are also starting their own lynch and generally being friendly like that in the thread would make me lean town on them. I dont see why mafia would make such a strong connection between themselves for no reason (if one of them turns out mafia the other would be instantly lynched at next opportunity). Conclusion: Pretty much neutral atm for me. He's read filters, he has inputted his thoughts and done some sound reads. What kind of set off alarm bells was the fact that later he started jumping on top of what I was saying and agreeing with everything I said. Although what I was saying made sense and it was apt for him to agree it just made me a bit more cautious, however, I still think he is town just not as strongly as the start. Read: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 23:15 Zyrre wrote: Reading that Umasi post I remember it stuck out to me as well, forgot to mention it in my previous post. He did post this also however: (later on he goes back to saying reps is confused townie again) Asking reps to do some actual pro-town work there seems odd if he is indeed defending fellow scum, although I believe it was during his spam fest so maybe can't put too much weight on it. I agree about a possible weak mafia connection there, and probably will be voting reps to lynch. I'll hold off voting until the other guys start posting again though. and then On August 01 2013 04:31 Zyrre wrote: Was just about the post the same thoughts holy. Noting every single thought in the thread is a terrible idea if you are town. As you say holy, its a simple way for scum to fit in since you dont really have to commit to any single post. But also its not very productive. If you have a thought you should first pursue it yourself and compare against filters/other posts/votes etc and develop it in to an idea or theory, thats the work you are supposed to do as town. Spamming single thoughts and nitpicking on a single post is largely useless. He also jumped on the infii train here: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 23:18 Zyrre wrote: I had infli as pretty much neutral until his last post. This is what he states when deciding who he will vote on: - scam and reps are both useless at best, but reps posting is also potentially scummy - he will vote for scam, but switch to reps if necessary(im assuming to avoid no lynch) Seems odd to me to choose scam over reps when he says essentially the same thing about them except add some scum reads on reps. Next on Umasi Doesn't make sense at all, most are against reps atm and it would be so much easier as mafia just to go along and go "yep, hes scummy alright" then to be the most aggressive one. On Alakaslam This sounds quite random at first but reasoning is sound I think. If Alakaslam is town he might want to give reps some pointers in the event reps is actually town. If Alakaslam is mafia the only reason he would want to do this would be if reps was mafia, dont think he would establish that connection so publicly though when chances are very high reps will get lynched this night anyway. In summation, leaning slightly towards mafia for infli right now. However, if infli is mafia I would say there is a very strong chance that reps is it too. No real reason for infli NOT to vote reps if reps is town, its just so much easier for him to blend in that way. So either way: ##vote reps)squishy On to DeusX Firstly he started up discussions by voting reps early on, I saw that as a town move. He might have been overly aggressive on him, but that seems to me as a bad scum move also. His latest post makes me not worry about him so much. He didnt contribute much analysis himself, but gave a lot of sound town advice. For instance, lets keep analyzing all players even if we are gonna lynch reps since we can gain more info. Also pressuring someone is good way to get info and townies should be fearless. So even if he is playing a kind of mafia leading the town, he is still giving good advice and not keeping everyone focused only on reps. His read on infii at that point was IMO spot on as infii was acting suspiciously at this point in time. I also like his other reads within that post. His posts after these weren't analytical but I get a stronger town read from him at this point. Conclusion: town read -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alakaslam All I can say is that I started as a wtf (His posts start page 3). Page 3 to the end of 4 are pretty much just spam. I also think the kenpachi approach is not a good start in a newbie game as if I was a total noob I would be crazy suspicious of anyone that said they were VT in their first post and then just spammed later. There are some noticeable things to point out within here though: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 14:52 Alakaslam wrote: Use the term "EBWOP" or Edited By Way Of Posting, and then just put your edit. Will appreciate this. Also check your posts using the preview function, and KEEP YOUR BBCODE CLEAN!! {hand waves to FirmTofu with a tsundere-ish smile and facepalm} And of course... IM BACK FOOS WASSUP and also On July 31 2013 15:56 Alakaslam wrote: Hey dude read up on mafia. There are some links in the OP our illustrious host compiled. Imma go ahead and be a hypocrite and tell u to read them. I don wanna see you quite this new whence u return, because it's getting WIFOM-ish. Actually you are becoming a huge compilation of WIFOM hell for me, on the level of Reps Wat r u doin Reps Stahp On August 01 2013 07:45 Alakaslam wrote: O.O Watching reps is like watching myself See this is why I am reluctant to vote him. Reps much of this straight up comes with experience. But believe me, the most important thing you can do is care 0% about staying alive and 100% about finding out who is scum and voting them immediately. This will be very hard. Also, keep talking. The more you say about why you think what you do will be more likely to show those who see it your alignment. But read (NOT SKIM) those guides, they are actually really good. Heck I fail them often enough but who can remember 100% of what they read. Just... If you're here ask questions and give answers, read filters and keep up on the thread. You seem to be doing ok but you are drawing conclusions exactly as I did back when. BE CARELESS! You are town? Prove it with truth! Just spout honesty! But don't role claim unles you are vanilla town. He actively tries to help reps through his god awful defenses and this made me settle on him as a more helpful player which is arguably town orientated, he was also asking Deus for his reasonings etc. to try and get better reads. One theory that I am working on though is that the alakaspamfest led to reps thinking that smaller less coherent posts were O.K. and so that led to reps posting his meme picture and continuing with the less analytical posts (more on that later). The contradictions from slam coupled with his fluff are what get on my nerves, refer to these posts: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 08:59 Alakaslam wrote: This is weaker than I thought, but do not forget it. Regardless, reading the game I feel they are both town. Was this a mafia play? Of course if you were mafia you would want to hop on the vote reps train, it's a free town lynch as you know he would be town. You also conveniently wash your hands of any of your suspicion when he did flip town and place the blame onto the two people (there were many more to be honest) that were hard on him. Couple this with: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 09:02 Alakaslam wrote: Although this is true in theory, the way they stuck their necks out looks town motivated to me. And flare wasn't with deus initially. Following the same line of conjecture this would just make it seem like you are now on our side and for us to trust you. Then there are also these posts that I feel are a bit mismatched: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 07:47 Alakaslam wrote: On bandwagon ing: you have emphasis backwards. Not ppl who bandwagon are mafia; mafia tend to join bandwagons. I do too, as town! Just make sure you ACTUALLY agree with the wagon before voting. and then compare it to this post that he called me up on: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 01:12 Alakaslam wrote: Holy flare you have caused me to expect better from you before this. So bandwagoning isn't scummy anymore I read. These reads made me so confused about Alakaslam that I wasn't sure what to think and had a crazy null read on him. This was however until pages 8 and onwards in his filter where he pressures the lurkers like crazy and wants to hear every bit of inormation possible. His 8 onwards leads me to believe he is in fact town, however, all his comments are directed at the lurkers who could also be his fellow mafia. If he isn't mafia then he is pro town anyway which is good enough for now. His defending of reps while suspicious is because he felt a connection of a similar train of thought from his first game. He also tried to counter bandwagon which I feel is a pro town move considering even I thought reps was leaning towards town near the end of the lynch but it was too late by then and he switched his vote back to confirm the kill. Conclusion: Pro town, undetermined alignment -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nightcat99 Nightcat99 is an odd read for me, I read some of his posts from his last game where he was SK and they all seemed fairly similar to this game, that being semi pro town moves. He did have some lies within his last game though that people should have picked up on. So it is my thoughts that when he plays something other than town you have to look out for the minute details in his posts and fact check them, that being said here is what I'm looking at: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 12:34 Nightcat99 wrote: I am a little confused about this scenario. cause i am not seeing either oUmasi or gotard as scum and obviously not myself..... and the netural read on sc_am, i dont understand how any one can get a read on Sc-am with the limited amount htat he has posted. At first in this scenario that he is linking, I posted Nightcat as an optional third person purely to try and get a read on his reply. There are several things I glean from this post: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 04:16 Nightcat99 wrote: and Umasi you better explain now, cause this is a super scummy move to switch on the last hour and then On August 02 2013 04:18 Nightcat99 wrote: If we get a no Lynch because you move your vote on the last minute, you and rep is both going to be voted as scum team. and also On August 02 2013 04:22 Nightcat99 wrote: If Umasi posted something like this 5 to 6 hour ahead i would have been happy to consider a switch , because rep although scummy is no way on top of my radar, and i have stated before that a scum will have a scum team with coach and there is no way they would play like this. But this is too late, there is no switching at this point. This confused the shit out of me, how can you NOT think Umasi is scum after his crazy lynch switch RIGHT at the end of the voting. You even called him out as performing scummy moves and now you have backed off of him! Why? Defending a fellow scum or what? I'm not sure. This is the first tell that set off alarm bells and actually sort of reinforces the scenario I was trying to make. He then continues to say that his read on Gotard is also not as a scum, he's pointed out Gotard once: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 12:14 Nightcat99 wrote: I guess every one is going to sleep, so i will leave this for every one to think about. Since rep's death is pretty secure. Stim has not elaborate. Infill needs to defend himself. I am not happy with Gotard's reason to vote infill. sc_a.M is lurking hard. and then dropped it + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 22:36 Nightcat99 wrote: Thank you for the reply gotard, i am currently satisfy on your reasoning for the vote, i still dont think its strong enough but its fine for now. I think we can drop the rep discussion , hes either a scum or the VT he claims , either way i wont feel bad lynching him. There is absolutely no reason to claim VT(looking at you slam) Please explain why you decide to claim VT Slam. Zyrre has been out for a while now, can i get your new input on infill and deux. sc_a.M looks like hes going to get the Blazing hammer. RDaneelOlivaw you have not post a single personal opinion, only agreeing and disagreeing with people's post is a scum move, please voice your opinion. His read on Sc_am? sc_am's lack of posting in itself is a LOT of information but that was totally contradictary with what he said here: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 10:39 Nightcat99 wrote: The thing is i through he was town too but no one can be sure, and there is no way to ensure a lynch on any one else. I know i might be stubborn but i just cant agree with a peaceful no lynch. I will be honest through, i dont think Sc_am is scum at all. First of all, hes obviously lurking and not busy. In that case, hes scum team would pressure him to play and give advice. I think you are much likely to do something, if you are 2 other scum and a coach on another forum pressuring you. And his lack of motivation is a tell of a horrible town. i need to form a opinion on scums through, i will go dive filter for a bit. His vote on reps was also questionable. It is obvious that mafias know who is town or not and so when a lynch is being put on a town some mafia will inevitably vote for the person to get a free mislynch, this is what I think Nightcat's intentions were here: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 00:10 Nightcat99 wrote: Rep voted on infil when hes about dead, you cant read into it too much. it might just be a play. and i guess i will ##vote reps)squishy He hasn't posted any proper reasoning for voting reps in his entire filter, that's why this has raised suspicion for me. He just joined the reps bandwagon, see also: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 04:22 Nightcat99 wrote: If Umasi posted something like this 5 to 6 hour ahead i would have been happy to consider a switch , because rep although scummy is no way on top of my radar, and i have stated before that a scum will have a scum team with coach and there is no way they would play like this. But this is too late, there is no switching at this point. Why didn't he join the Alakaslam counter bandwagon or even raise these points himself before the lynch was less than an hour away? This is a pro scum read from me. Similarly; + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 10:30 Nightcat99 wrote: This is a very active night. I want to point out that slam and umasi bounded too quickly, i am not saying any of you two is scum. What i am saying is that if one of you is scum, the other would never seen it coming and that would in turn confuse us. You two are not keeping an watchful eye on each other. @Umasi that was a total dick move to switch last hour with no explination then afk, frankly at that hour since he claimed a VT and not a Blue, i would be happy to lynch him to test reaction. It has been stated several times by me that calling out your town reads on day 1 and especially night 1 would be a bad move and yet he asks people to post them anyway. Albeit he asks for them an hour before the end of the night and gives a good reason for that. I am extremely suspicious of him. I'm not sure if both him and umasi could flip scum though that is the thing that is concerning me, I think they are both scum but Nightcats posts make it hard to think both of them can be together. I encourage peoples inputs for this. Conclusion: Scum read, but contestable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Holyflare I am including myself in here because what better way to prove that you are pro town than by eliminating all doubt from peoples minds. So, looking objectively at myself here is what I can see: My page 1 filter: As we all know reps did in fact turn out to be town. With this knowledge in hand the posts on page 1 of my filter show my aprehension of bandwagoning reps without valid reasoning. I also called out Deus and wanted to hear his reasons why he picked him out all of a sudden. I was satisfied with his answers though. + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 11:55 Holyflare wrote: My thoughts on reps are still undertemined, the posts Deus is referring to are generally all pre-game. IF anything reps has progressed the discussion of the town through this post: That was actually a somewhat productive post. It got people talking, a pro-town move if any. He has mentioned being new once in this day so to call that into the open so soon is beyond me, I would have personally waited for another one or asked some leading questions. and here On July 31 2013 12:25 Holyflare wrote: I have seen reps post only a few times and so my overall suspicion of him is still undertermined, if you can make a call off of 2 posts then go ahead. His reply to Deus increased my suspicion but that only makes me wonder if he is truly just a newbie bad town or a scum, not for certain, hence undertermined. His post asking about peoples views on lurkers is more productive in terms of getting the ball rolling than Deus' posts that Umasi has highlighted previously. However, I do not feel that talking about people's opinions on lurker votes was a good topic to get the ball rolling and so did not follow up on it. Let me just reiterate this for you, I am not on the defence of anyone here, I am pointing out the facts of what is occurring. My next move was to determine some of the other relationships in the game. I voted reps because he was suspicious as fuck at this point, his meme posts and one line defences, really..? + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 22:54 Holyflare wrote: On the reps/deus situation: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 20:14 Zyrre wrote: Reading through filters this morning trying to make some sense of the DeusX->reps->Umasi/alakaslam exchanges. reps: This post seems to be very town at first to me, however, following this post is 2.5h of posts where suspicion is aimed at DeusX instead. Then reps decides anyway to post this: If he was going to point by point defend himself, why not do it right away? Seems overly defensivve too me since people did not jump on the wagon with DeusX and instead was questioning him at the time. Later, he posts this: To me it seems Alakaslam was saying that there was evidence DeusX was scummy. Even if he misread this as there being evidence that he(reps) was scummy, why would he as a proclaimed newbie claim his role when there was even talk about how very situational it was in the pregame? All this together seems very scummy to me, confused to bad townie at best. DeusX: His aggresion so early might seem scummy, but I think his strategy if he was scum is terrible. Yes as pointed out you can be vocal scum, but not in the way he is doing it. You would need to be much more neutral but still post a lot. Going all out and be the first guy to accuse someone first day, when chances are we will accidentaly lynch a town anyway, just why? No reason at all to do this. The only reason to start a new lynch would be if a mafia was already targeted which wasnt the case. In conclusion: he might be over-aggresive and his arguments may be weak, but not a mafia read from me so far. I disagree that reps post seems townie at first, although I do agree with your later point on him trying to absolve himself after he was seemingly cleared makes him super scummy. I also think that Umasi has been somewhat linked to reps which may prove to be a possible mafia connection (I will explain further if you read down). Deus' posts although pretty aggressive were in the interest of furthering discussion, however, he could just be forcing any old lynch just as equally; for now he seems to be a townie or a neutral, unlikely to be mafia in my opinion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Show Spoiler + Umasi/alakaslam: A bit hard to make sense of some of their chatter. However, just on the point they are also starting their own lynch and generally being friendly like that in the thread would make me lean town on them. I dont see why mafia would make such a strong connection between themselves for no reason (if one of them turns out mafia the other would be instantly lynched at next opportunity). Conclusion: Pretty much neutral atm for me. On the obvious Umasi/alakasam circle: I'm not sure about these two, they have a strong connection yes but they also had that in the pre-game chatter. This can pose as a deceiving thing when it comes to determining who is town and who is scum. For now I'm not sure this link poses valuable information other than both of them haven't really contributed much analysis although they have posted a lot, which is a scummy move. They have also bandwagoned onto the Deus vote together which seems a bit abrupt. There is however another circle that I'd like to point out for you: This is the only thing Umasi has written on in length (other than the accusation on Deus) defending the person that was under direct scrutiny at the time. If this post contained similar content to his previous posts it wouldn't have raised suspicion, however, this is out of character for what he has been writing so far. His accusation of deus now leads me to believe that Umasi is in fact defending a fellow scum (reps), although this is purely circumstantial. If anything I argue that reps would be a good lynch for the town progression to see his flip and piece together parts of the puzzle. ##vote reps)squishy My early early gut read on Umasi has evolved over the course of the day/night. I now am heavily suspicious of him. His clairvoyance seems all too conveniant now, this was so early that it becomes scummy. I initially thought that Umasi and reps were both scum together but now we know that reps is town. I feel that Umasi knew that he was town because he was scum and made this defence so early to avoid looking suspicious later. I then got into a contested argument with Umasi about hiding town reads here: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 03:57 Holyflare wrote: Town reads and scum reads are two totally different kettle of fish. If you have a solid scum read that scum is forced to behave more and more like a pro town or face the eventual lynch, this is 100% pro town as a mafia that acts pro town is more likely to slip up as he has information that we do not. A pro town mafia is better than a dodgy town especially on day 1. As the game progresses you can garner information with your potential town reads, if you announce who your town reads are this early they will either be targets for the mafia to frame you as suspicious or narrow your circle of trust down and thus make it harder to progress with the elimination of scum. This would not be a pro scum move to do as obviously scum want to know town reads as I explained. (Umasi was pushing for town reads......just saying). I don't know how many opportunities I gave reps to try and prove he was town and he failed to do so in a total pathetic way that made me feel bad for his weak town. Here: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 08:50 Holyflare wrote: You have not driven any of your insights into us at all so we cannot be certain whether you are just playing a bad town or not. The mafia meta video that you claimed to watch explains that you have to prove to town beyond all reasonable doubt that you are a townie otherwise you just become a bad person to read and can be scum or detremental to town. As we can afford to mislynch people a few times in a row it is often best to get rid of the people that would hinder you in the later stages of the game off early; lurkers, obvious scum, bad towns. If you truly want to reconcile your town worthyness now I want you to go through every filter and point out to me who you think are the most suspicious people so far. I want you to quote your reasoning and explain logically your choices. Only then will I believe that lynching you MAY be the wrong idea. Click this for the list of player names - click each name for a filter of their typing only I understand this was a noob game and he was actually trying to contribute in the only way he knew how but it was actually becoming a hinderance to the town to the point where it was inevitable that I'd have to lynch him off. The rest of my filter just explains that I was making this post really and throwing out a scenario to see replies from some of the people I was suspicious of. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DeusXmachina Initially his posts seemed... strange, but it is his first game and he was just getting into the roleplay of the whole thing which is now seemingly understandable. His flat out claim on reps was crazy and I got really suspicious of him at that point, however, he cleared all suspicion from himself with these two posts: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 12:05 DeusXmachina wrote: Reps is in no serious danger. If he is town he should be able to defend himself. The discussion is opening up. We can look at several important factors: 1. Is anyone trying to defend reps? 2. Who is not posting their opinion? 3. What does reps have to say in his defense? 4. I am sure you guys have more to add. Hopefully we can expose more than just reps intentions. and this one On July 31 2013 12:22 DeusXmachina wrote: Umasi before I called out reps there was hardly any valuable information that we could use so far. Putting myself under so much attention is NOT a scum thing to do. Furthermore, my accusation of reps has prompted a lot of discussion. I agree my first posts could have been more meaningful, however that is hardly scum worthy. I even express my disdain of scum in my first post. Furthermore, why is fishing for responses a bad thing? It gets people talking that that is what we want. Finally, I was a little alarmed by Alakaslam announcing his role so quickly. Biggest pro town move since the beginning of the game, IMO. Then we have this: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 06:22 DeusXmachina wrote: I am back. A lot has gone on, and there is a lot I want to talk about so this is going to be a long post. The focus of this post will still be on reps, however I wanted to address a couple things first. Alakaslam votes me because of the Kenpachi rule. Lol. That is just stupid. I never attacked a VT claim. Asking if Alakaslam can be trusted because he claimed VT super early is hardly an attack. There is some talk on people who are being neutral and others who are not contributing that much. Honestly, I think we should wait to target these people. If they are persistently neutral or lurking throughout multiple days then we have more reason to be suspicious. That being said, why would you even want to stay neutral? Being a vocal townie is not a bad thing. Just imagine if every legit townie was trying to be extremely pro town. Scum couldn't target one specific individual, and town would have a great basis for analyzing potential scum posts, i.e. a post that was trying to appear pro town. Okay, I still want to focus on reps. If reps is scum and he gets lynched, WOOT good job townies. If reps is a bad townie and he gets lynched, WOOT good job townies. Has anyone actually disagreed that reps is either scum or a bad townie? Honestly this didn't contribute much at all. In fact most of his posts are pointless. But here is what Interests me. Reps says he has been reading up on a few TL Mafia games and expresses his interest in non posters. He hasn't posted that much, at time he has been a complete lurker, and again non of his posts are actually that meaningful. For someone who has been reading TL Mafia games your doing a really shitty job so far reps, no offense. Furthermore, if he has been reading TL Mafia games why the hell does he appear so newbie still? Evidence of pointless posts: (I am not going to quote them because there is a lot) 1. Welcome Nightcat you have missed just about nothing. 2. Yeah just use the edit button and that thing. 3. Quotes me and says, "Meaningless fluff is awesome! But I guess that is not something to do." 4. oh (are you kidding me reps....) 5. Quotes and then says, "Happy?" (seriously............) 6. sc_a.M has not posted since the game has started. RDaneelOlivaw posted one fluff since the game started. 7. A picture (my favorite) Okay a lot of pointless posts there. He has not contributed much. That seems scummy to me. Furthermore, his defense of my accusation was poor. He doesn't even thwart any suspicion here, instead he actually claims his actions were scummy, which means that accusation was warranted. Couple more things. Ill be brief. Why would he vote Umasi? That makes little sense. He votes Umasi because Umasi came under recent suspicion. That seem like he is trying to blend in to me. Furthermore he presses his attack against Umasi, saying that anyone who defends him, like Umasi did, should appear suspicious? WAT? Yeah maybe if you are scum than anyone who defends you should appear suspicious. But if your townie why do you care? Furthermore, that is certanly not a reason to vote Umasi. In conclusion, At best he is a bad townie and we should lynch him. However, he seems very scummy to me. A big analytical post, only on reps though. This in my opinion was warranted because of reps ridiculous replies and voting shifts. However, then he starts to push the vote for reps a bit extremely for the rest of his posts on page 1. Page 2 he starts to pick up a bit with this post: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 14:35 DeusXmachina wrote: Last post before I go to bed. Good to see more people are taking a stance against reps. Reps, don't defend yourself by making a case of your innocence, defend yourself by contributing. This is a start. Q1 is good. If you're town you should be able to offer a lot more. You still seem scummy to me. Umasi, this is directed at you: You said that depending on the reps flip you would still consider me as scum. Hhooookayy can we get past my first posts please. Haven't I already said several times that they were shit? That is your grounds for suspicion? I invite everyone to filter my posts and look them over. I am one of the most townie people in this game, and my later posts have definitely proved that. Umasi for this reason you are going on my notes list under suspicions. If reps flips town the most scummy individuals will be the ones who voted against reps last. The ones who vote reps at the end are the ones who vote to fit in. They don't vote someone else because they would be expected to make a case against the person they are voting against. Furthermore, they don't jump in early on and take an active stance because of the fear of unwanted attention. We should be suspicious of anyone who lurks and votes reps after this post, unless they can offer an in depth explanation of why they are voting against him. I am aware that if reps is town there is probably a talented scum that has been able to work there way into this argument in a way that appears pro town. We can work on them later. However, scum play with the fear of being noticed. They play with the fear of attention. Although it may be extremely subtle, the fear shows itself in their posts i.e a late vote like I talked about above. He is supporting reps actions and in an attempt to get him to talk more he asks for more information, this is what I think makes him less suspicious. The part about the people that voted reps last is a bit weird though as I don't think I agree with that and I agree with Umasi that his defending of himself was a bit suspect. What I do want to point out that all of his posts were about reps and defending himself from Umasi (until reps died). He then moved onto 2 obvious targets Rdaneel and Sc_am, other obvious targets. He notes that: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 05:20 DeusXmachina wrote: Well town we got what we wanted. Getting rid of reps is still a victory, just not as big as if he were scum. I have a hunch that one of them is scum. I plan on spending a lot of time looking into those two. On August 02 2013 16:03 DeusXmachina wrote: Hey guys. Seems like a productive night phase so far. I would like to say briefly that I am surprised at how time consuming this game can be. It is hard to formulate a well thought out opinion on everyone. With that in mind I will start small. Scam and RDO There has been a lot of suspicion directed towards these two. Ill start with Scam. Is his hardcore lurking indicative of scum? No, I don't think so. I agree with Nightcat in this regard and have additional thoughts to add. Can't agree with this more. Scum want to try and hide right? Well scam is not hiding that is for damn sure. His over the top lurking has put him in the spot light yet he doesn't seem to care. He only has a few posts. Seems to me like this is a town with lack of motivation. Furthermore, a vote to no-lynch is NOT indicative of scum. Scum know who their fellow scum are right. By process of elimination they know who is not scum. When it came down to lynching reps a scum would want to vote against him, because they know he is not scum. Boom! Scum vote to lynch reps and chalk it up as a small victory. Yet, scam voted a no-lynch. Why would he do that if he was scum? There are a lot of differences between Scam and RDO. For starters RDO posts a lot more than Scam. Let me elaborate on some of the other differences and move my train of thought onto RDO. To me RDO seems to be scummy. He was lurking hard at the beginning of the game. When people became suspicious of RDO he kicked up his game and started posting a lot right? Well that is why I get a scummy read off of him. He definitely seems like he is trying to blend at this point. Furthermore, he definitely seems like he is jumping on the opportunity to defend himself. Granted that is what is being asked of him, by people like Slam, yet nevertheless he seems like he is aiming to clear his name. This is a great example of that: You could argue that RDO seems pro town as of late. He has posted about his scum suspicions. However, to me this seems like another attempt at blending in. To this I would simply ask, why was he not doing that before? That concludes my suspicion of RDO. That is not enough to go on for now but I think it is a start. If anyone else wants to add to this, I want to hear what you have to say. A lot of us are suspicious of RDO at the moment so I think we should press the mater. Final thoughts on some other players: I am okay with infii right now. I don't have a solid read on him either way. I would rather spend my efforts focusing on other people. Nightcat could definitely be scummy, although I can't say for sure yet. Above I agreed with what he had to say on Scam, but I won't let that in anyway cloud my opinion of him. A lot of you are looking into nightcat so I will try to help out. There is definitely other noteworthy candidates at this point. Ill do my best to check into them all. If you guys have anything specific you would like me to address let me know. Ill be up for a little while longer. This is a little confusing and put with his aggression on reps early leaves me at a null read. Conclusion: Null read, want to hear a lot more about other people from him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Umasi I totally thought he was town at the beginning of the game, he was trying to get people to talk and other things like that, however, now that reps flipped town I am more suspicious of him, probably the most at the moment? + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 07:06 Umasi wrote: Also, here is what I know about the people in this game StiM has variable activity levels and likes martyring for some reason, which I don't really like but whatever :3, he's normally more on the lurker side Gotard is pretty scummy always forever and ever and ever, and doesn't post a lot. Wham bam Alakaslam is super awesome, and posts a lot, but seems to be wrong a lot of the time like I am haha Nightcat played the part of newb town really well last game, and honestly blew my mind he was the serial killer, so I don't know what his town playstyle is like. I felt this was helpful but I honestly think there's a link between gotard and Umasi and with that in mind it looks like his gotard information was lacking because they are allies. Either way, umasi started off with small posts and as soon as the accusation on reps was started his post style changed completely to : + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 07:06 Umasi wrote: Also, here is what I know about the people in this game StiM has variable activity levels and likes martyring for some reason, which I don't really like but whatever :3, he's normally more on the lurker side Gotard is pretty scummy always forever and ever and ever, and doesn't post a lot. Wham bam Alakaslam is super awesome, and posts a lot, but seems to be wrong a lot of the time like I am haha Nightcat played the part of newb town really well last game, and honestly blew my mind he was the serial killer, so I don't know what his town playstyle is like. He jumped on Deus here: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 12:14 Umasi wrote: That said, I'm not a fan of this post at all, because it specifically says "let's get the ball rolling" and then like, doesn't get the ball rolling? Don't command us to do what you want, try to start it up if you are legitimately invested in it. Moreover, You just like, lightly finger of suspicion alakaslam, post a lot of irrelevant fluff, and tell me you appreciate my enthusiasm. What did any of that accomplish? It's done even less than reps, from what I can tell. Why are you like, fishing for responses here? All of this combined with your hard stance on someone so early that's really not backed up with a lot of facts makes me vote you. You're owning up to your thoughts, but your thoughts are over the top. ##VOTE DeusXmachina I find this odd because just a few posts later he mentioned this + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 12:45 Umasi wrote: Why does it bug you, StiM? I'm not sold either way on Holy, leaning town, I guess. Him being the first person to try to jump into dialogue with me was nice~because why would scum bother talking because no one else had at that point and they'd rather see discussion fall flat~ And although the things he's said specifically I can't read either way, like, whatever. He's posted a lot. I don't mind his passive defending of anyone either, I do that too. So in the end, slightly townie. If it is his play style to passive defend people then why the sudden accusatory nature? If anything it means that he knows that if reps flips town it will look like he is right about Deus? These are my theories. He further persues deus here: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 10:06 Umasi wrote: yeah, I think that infii is number two after reps atm. I'd still consider deus depending on reps flip. Despite absolving him of being mafia in a few posts before and unvoting him: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 07:20 Umasi wrote: ##UNVOTE DEUS alright, that case sold me on you not being scum atm. Specifically, the way your brought up your points and your mentality is very pro-town, in a way that your earlier posts were not. Reps is just so out there uninformed/bad/pick your word that I have a hard time believing he's scum, despite everything. Him randomly throwing a vote on me with THAT logic is just stupid. Most of the things he does are stupid, not scum. I guess I don't mind lynching him, because some of it is scum. Deus, what do you think about people that aren't reps? Specifically infii. And reps, what do you think of people that aren't me? Specifically infii, again. conceptually, I prefer to always lynch no matter what forever. Totally policy "we could be lynching one of our own though" well lynch the scummiest or second scummiest, there's always the possibility of lynching one of our own. The thing is, if you take away the lynch, town has literally nothing concrete left. This IS our power in the game. This is all half of the people in this game can DO. So by nature, voting to no lynch is wasting that power. He also wants our town reads, what?: + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2013 04:07 Umasi wrote: I disagree, it's good to know who town reads are. I don't know how to convince you, but it's certainly more useful than looking at fucking scum teams not even a full 24 hours into the first day. You shouldn't only have to work with your town reads, you should be working with EVERY TOWNIE. So having your town reads killed is not a huge friggen deal. A lot that people seem to misunderstand, and I don't necessarily know if I'm correct, but this is certainly how I operate, is that people are town until proven scum, not scum until proven town. A natural byproduct of listing your scum reads is going to be listing your town reads, because if they aren't scum, THEY'RE TOWN. ~well you know until the serial killer but we don't talk about him. Like, I guess the point of all this is, I really promote the way Alakaslam and I play, which is to keep a log of your thoughts like you have diarrhea of the brain. The more clear people are with what they're thinking, the better! That said, reps, you never really listed scum reads (or town reads) did you, and then you pointed out lurkers, without saying anything about them, just like "dey lurkin" I want to believe you're just an idiotic newbie townie man, I really REALLY do. You are sure as shit are not making it easy though. Despite all this the real contention comes down to his voting pattern: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 03:44 Umasi wrote: That specific line helps a lot. I want you to scum hunt reps, don't go back on your word here. Just because you're off my personal chopping block (dunno about everyone elses) doesn't mean you can go goof around again. This entire push feels wrong, because the tone of your typing feels like you're legitimately trying, and legitimately confused. You've been a detriment to town, but if we can work through that, it may turn out better in the end, and I don't want to lynch you anymore. I'd rather just lynch the scummiest, and you are no longer the scummiest. I am going out to lunch in fifteen ish minutes, going to reread and decide who to vote on. I don't think reps is our lynch. That said, I do want to see a lynch through though. ##UNVOTE REPS He unvotes reps with a reason, however, he later says: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 03:53 Umasi wrote: Don't do thaaaaaaaaat. No lynching is stupid t.t Also, don't preemptively martyr when it's the end of day one and you have a single vote on you. It's a far better idea to start scumhunting. We won't get clues from the nighttime, all we'll know is if there is a serial killer or not. The only revealing thing is the nightkill, but even then, what would you learn from that? Like, if deus died and flipped town. What happens then? Nothing is really revealed. In fact, it might just be more confusing. No lynching is bad. We aren't random lynching, we're legitimately putting thought into who we're voting, that's the entire POINT. I'll give you a small grace period as per reps, get your ass in gear, and by that I specifically mean go filter dive people and see what you can come up with. This applies to you Rdaneel, don't just mildly comment on things, bring up things we haven't talked about and discuss it all, or discuss old things to death, as long as it's not about reps. We've beaten reps to death. For the point of argument sakes he is pressing Deus extremely hard after the town flip: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 05:39 Umasi wrote: No matter how you cut it, miss lynching is not a good thing. I don't even know why you CARE what I think about the miss lynch, and calling it a bad thing. The reason I care about what your opinions on it are is because you post a meaningless statement that feels like you're trying to include yourself. And deus, he did show motivation to improve, you actually responded to it yourself. "this is a good start" implying he'd started to improve. The more you respond, the worse a feeling I get about you. As my suspicion of Deus is also questionable it leaves many scenarios to be explored. I do think there is a connection between Umasi and Gotard though: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2013 12:00 Umasi wrote: tbth, I don't know what to think of gotard, since he's always kinda scummy to me, but never REALLY scummy. He goes through times of not scum and very scummy, but at the moment I'm leading only kinda scummy. I actually liked how he picked up on infiis posts, and I heavily agree with him on a lot of points. The way he preformed his pressure is the only issue, but I think he's done more for town than infii. ~I still don't know why slam and stim think infii is town, if you want to enlighten me, go for it, unless I missed a post, in which case, point it out to me~ my thoughts on alakaslam~ upon rereading him, he "felt town". It's hard to understand what he's saying a lot of the time, but I've kind of gotten the hang of it, I think. He has six pages of gameplay in his filter, and there's no reason for scum to be as active as he has been, and he's thrown himself around with reckless abandon. I'm willing to overlook him till later in the game, I don't think he's who we should target lynch wise. This is wish washy and he has no real opinion on Gotard, coupled with the beginning read post and then the voting post: Click me! He voted infii as well as Gotard despite it having no real effect on the outcome of the lynch, why? I think Gotard and Umasi have a serious link and I want people to explore this and discuss it further. Conclusion: Scum with Gotard or town (masons with gotard? dont really think so). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gotard Gotard was overly aggressive on infii early, (I actually think infii might be town). Here: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 20:28 Gotard wrote: This game will be hard. A lot of lurkers and two of the most confusing people in the whole universe: Umasi and Alakaslam. reps)squishy - He's posting isn't pro town whatsoever. Hue huehuehue. Really? If you are newbie better start posting reads/thought/analysis infii - My first post in my last game was pretty similar to what you have written right here. I was mafia. HE HAS SLEPT ON REPS THE ENTIRE TIME, probably because he knew he was town? reps defense was shit and he just agreed with it outwright no matter what and kept his vote on infii without changing it even towards the later stages of the day when the vote looked like it wasn't going through. His posts have been somewhat lacking and when questioned on his opinion on Umasi his reply was: + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On August 02 2013 22:28 Gotard wrote: [QUOTE]On August 02 2013 22:03 Holyflare wrote: Gotard what is your opinion of Umasi? I don't really know what to think about him for now. He doesn't seem pro town. More like happy spamming. I need to dive his filter to say something more. I should be able to post about him later today. (I don't have much time to post right now) There is no later on today the night ends right now, probably before he gets to post his responses properly too, waiting for Umasi to get back and chat in qt about what to say about each other? I know this isn't much but he doesn't have much to go on.~ Conclusion: Scummy with Umasi? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The rest: I am so sorry I couldn't finish this in time I got called out earlier than I expected but a quick summary of my thoughts on the rest of the people: 7) RDaneelOlivaw 8) StiMaDDict 10) sc_a.M 12) infii Rdaneel I got a strong town read from him from his first post, and then when slam got him to elaborate on things it increased my notion of him being town. Stim I am not sure on, he pressed me early which I liked and then kind of went to work or whatever, I haven't properly checked up on him yet  sc_am I think is neutral SK or survivor or whatever the other neutrals are or a VT who is unhappy he got that role and is afking so as not to get modkilled not sure about scum though... Infii I like as town. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I want you all to discuss these things the next day, and I will elaborate on the rest of the people if I do survive. Bear in mind these are ONLY theories not concrete evidence, I have pushed some people as mafia more than others for the point of conjecture and discussion. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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