|
On June 24 2013 14:11 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 13:22 hzflank wrote:On June 24 2013 13:00 Chromatically wrote:
hz, do you have any scumreads? At the moment I am looking at FirmTofu. His chain of attack and defense looks like: Attack Chromatically Attack Xzavier Attack Hurricane Attack Spicy Defend Hurricane Defend Xzavier Attack Spicy For some reason the defenses seem a little out of place to me, especially the defense on Xzavier. On the other hand I believe Hurricane to be town as if he were scum then he is very brave to make the first post that he did. I am also very aware that I made an slightly extended attack on Spicy, who now seems to be FirmTofu's main target. I am wondering if he thinks Spicy is a good lynch target because he can count on my vote. He has also said twice that we should only use information from this game and not previous games. I think town should have access to as much information as possible in order to lynch scum. Therefore to me, FirmTofu is currently the scummiest player. Doesn't town want to make lots of scum reads early and get people to defend themselves? Proving innocence is a great goal for us, and helps to narrow down the scum list so that no-lynch is less likely to happen. Then again, good point regarding spicy and whatnot. Hopefully, cases will flesh out and things will become clearer. Personally I don't have any reads yet, still reading thread.
Here he says town wants to make lots of scum reads and make people defend themselves, yet he never not once makes a serious scum read.
Ebwop (man I miss edit feature) @onegu- and his expletive messed up your post too didnt it?@hzflank: yet, so far I can only make town reads.+ Show Spoiler +TL;DR: FirmTofu explain what happened with your bbcode that messed up onegu and my posts.It's pissing me off, I pride myself on being able to manage bbcode from my iPhone, a stressful quad-post in my early days produced that. + Show Spoiler +Anyone willing to run a search on Ace and see if he has done anything like that before?Crap, I can see the hole this makes. If we find that's scum play then MAN, we will have to be careful this game as it's really creative.OMGIS! I fell for a bbcode error?!??
This is is only scum read a messed up bbcode and the scum coach has done it before in a different game.
As Scum, does it make ANY sense to point out that we should be accusing each other? Yet I did this. This just does not fall in the category of things it makes sense for scum to do.I do agree that much of what I have posted has been odd. You know where a lot of that comes from?+ Show Spoiler +Which I appreciate but late at night it was killing my confidence. Don't worry about doing that further though. I have nothing to hide.Show me some substantial posts so far! I don't want to drop a deuce on everyone but what HAS been very useful so far? Chromatically has been attacked, hasn't really defended himself yet, but others have defended for him. Odd. Then he came in and kind of defended himself.I have attacked FirmTofu, mostly out of bitterness due to the bbcode. Aqua has been attacked, almost for attacking chromatically and for the same reason you have been and I have been- "inactivity". Note I am bound to be bad town this first game. I have learned much from you my good man. If it helps, you guide my vote until you look scummy.
Here is his defense from my poke earlier, and alakaslam you are just posting basic scum hunting tactics and then saying I am not scum because I am posting we should look for scum. He also says there arent any useful posts at all out there so why does it matter he hasnt posted any, but it does matter if no one posts useful information go out of your way to do so not just hide behind the fact everyone else isnt doing anything that is what scum wants. Also you shouldnt sheep anyone that is almost the worst thing you can do, if you like what someone says that is fine but you should do your own investigation and add to thier points if possible not just blindly sheep.
I see I must post quality!Well Define: quality. Senseless accusations? No, there are people who have done that that there is suspicion toward. I don't see how that helps.Accusing, from me, is going to require more evidence. I'm sorry, I just don't read people very well (yet), and I don't want to do what I have been doing. Well then, does aiding town count? "Shouldn't town be accusing and whatnot because it establishes innocence and is how you scumhunt etc etc" paraphrase."Oh meta is allowed? People have decided they want meta? Here you go, last three newbie games, top of page 13!""Well shit* guys I posted nothing but fluff, really sorry about that"See the above Venn diagram, read my filter, then put it in context reading the thread. It's not scum play it's just try hard bad town. Give me a day/ night cycle and it won't be so bad, more info and I might find one.*earlier I was putting [expletive]. My PC is also linked to my workplace.
You should know what helps town and what doesnt. Posting old games just gives people more filler and somewhat useless information to sift through. You arent aiding town you are just cluttering up the thread with useless info.
Voting is requested! I will bandwagon out of bitterness until I see a really good defense. Not so much against the bbcode error (that would be hypocritical) but against... Baseless lurker accusations at the start of day 1!See how I roll? Am I going to make those accusations? Maybe (I'm kind of doing just that) but in this case, it's because he already has a vote, and I am thinking of helping a bandwagon.I WANT firm to show up as town, I am super nervous about mislynching! But I need to make a case it seems, and this is what I got because frankly I don't see any great cases yet.##Vote: FirmTofuOut because work
Again you just bandwaggon without add anything and when you are called out for it you take your vote off.
Awesome point, work lull so SPICY AND ONEGU YOU ARE SCUMBUDDIES DEFENSE YOURSELFS- Hide Spoiler -look at me everyone, LOOK at me and see that I am town! Press me, press me hard because 1. That's how I get better at town and 2. Because I am drawing suspicion as town which doesn't help town. And therefore, in the interests of town, if I am scum I am suiciding! THESE ARE MY TOWNREADS. DO AS THEY DO!Nonetheless, defend yourselves. You've both been attacked (especially you, spicy!). I have made a baseless claim of guilt on you two, nevertheless defend it. Why should I think what I do? Prove yourselves town, then lead it! LETS GO SEE YOU AFTER WORK
You think you need to be active so you post something you think will contibute to town makeing people defend themselves but instead you just post more fluff.
On a serious note, I will read. Pleas realize folks I'm not trying to detract from clarity but every time I shut up I'm a lurker. So I wind up posting fluff and weasels like my "case" against Onegu and spicy. That was WHOLLY to make a sarcastic point- that I am town, and between a rock and a hard place because I have weak deductive reasoning.
It doesnt matter if you have good deductive reasoning or not, you are just makeing an excuse why you arent doing anything, you are only harming town at this point.
|
I believe this is his first game of mafia ever irl or forum and he got scum read over some old games and didnt really know what to do so he tried to look active by posting but didnt actually post anything useful. I think he is scum but to be honest doesnt he doesnt know what he is doing.
|
Ebwop
To many doesnt.
I think he is noobie scum but to be honest he doesnt know what he is doing.
|
On June 25 2013 14:51 hzflank wrote:In my opinion, Alakaslam has posted the single most scummy sentence in this thread. On the whole I do not think Alakaslam is scummy, but I do think the following post aimed at Onegu should be taken notice of. Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 00:46 Alakaslam wrote:
If it helps, you guide my vote until you look scummy.
Alakaslam, at the time that you posted that, what gave you such a strong town read on Onegu?
Looooooong day today. Work came up unexpected in a nigh unbelievable way.
Still reading , but this caught my eye. Onegu has consistently cleared up my shit, I mean look at the crap I have posted. He pointed out errors in my play so much he alerted me to my shortcomings and alerted the town of potential distraction, as caused by me!
Not only is he a strong townread for me, he is my strongest and I stand by that claim to sheep him.
Doesn't mean I'm 100%, but pretty close!
Will keep reading. Don't expect much until night if I don't get lynched though because my head is even more upside down than when I'm not tired out of my skull
|
On June 25 2013 18:48 Onegu wrote:
I believe this is his first game of mafia ever irl or forum and he got scum read over some old games and didnt really know what to do so he tried to look active by posting but didnt actually post anything useful. I think he is scum but to be honest doesnt he doesnt know what he is doing.
This is half true.
I was terrified of being lynched, scum fall prey to that but there are other roles that have this affect on newbs.
There is nothing I can do and I saw this coming soon a my quote included "make it clean like this guys" and it was the absolute worst looking post in the thread after having posted just to show that I was no lurker.
I also played selfishly (as you'll see on flip) rather than from a town mindset. I started to seek survival and that is scummy and I know it too, is the sad thing. Just didn't put 2 &2 together, did not expect to wind up feeling like I was all survivalist as town :p
I'm really sorry I couldn't put anything useful down before my likely exit, but this is my last ditch effort:
Allow me to last the night. I still can't do much but I am a broken sheep, so looks like I'll go independent.
Scum reads? Finally got one: Aquanim. Haven't read filters, haven't got a case, just want to contribute a skimmer's gut feeling before possible drasticness. Take it or leave it, especially as I must sleep as checkout is 1 pm and I checked In at a defeated 4:30. Fail at job, fail here but there is always another game  and the farm will irrigate again in a week or less.
Ps: actually I have done table mafia but that is very different, I suck at that because I have AS. I thought I'd have a chance here, and still think so- just decided to go nuts in terror despite some awesome coaching to the contrary :D :S
Great learning experience! The greats do what they do with skill. A silver leaguer trying to sentry expand may often find it countered by mass hydra (olllld WoL meta)- must start with Probes and Pylons, Probes and Pylons.
Btw have a surprise final post if I get lynched/ killed XD
See y'all around, when I was looking scummy to myself I knew OMGIS, it wassa comin!
Good luck my friends, you will need it. DON'T not lynch me just because I had a hard day, if I really look scummy Lynch me dammit! Towns must know how to COMMIT! >: )
##Vote: Aquanim
|
STOP VOTING AQUA WITHOUT REASONS
I'll do another case on Xzav soon that hopefully clearly demonstrates why he's by far the best lynch.
|
Xzavier makes me feel like me. I won't lynch him. I am damned stubborn.
GOOD night. I'm beat. Can't read right now and I follow gut NOW while I live.
|
So Alakaslam isn't even going to pretend to have a reason for that vote. I still think Xzavier's a little more likely to flip scum than Alakaslam but damn, he's trying hard to reverse that...
I agree with Onegu that Alakaslam has been useless, but unfortunately scum has no monopoly on uselessness. That being said, there's only so much uselessness that I can tolerate. If for whatever reason we decide not to lynch Xzavier my next preferred lynch would be Alakaslam now - I don't think my read will ever get any better on him and this copout doesn't look good. Onegu's effort on the Alakaslam case hasn't removed him entirely from my scum reads, but he's certainly in the "wait and see what he does for another day to clarify read" pile now.
|
fyfy has been modkilled for editing posts. He will be flipped at the end of the day
|
I'm not liking Xzavier as a D1 lynch but i see why others are voting him. Before chrom threw a vote down on him he did 0 scum hunting and his posts were just policy and/or fluff. With that i can clearly see a vote. However what he has done since the votes started piling on has convinced me he's town. An unproductive town before the vote, but a townie no less.
Insulting 1/2 the people in the thread is not the best way to stop a lynch on you, in fact its a good way to guarantee it. Then he throws a quick vote on aqua with a weak reason to back it up. The vote felt very reactionary like he was going for the first scummy thing he could find, not very calculated. I know some people dont like meta in newbie games, but here i feel Xzavier was just being a lot more cautious with his scum hunting after what happened last game which didnt go so well. I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
On a lesser note, I'm very cautious of the first bandwagon (not necessarily of the person who started it) but because with the piling on its easier for scum to hide in it.
I'm going to look at those who jumped on xzavier and also look at the case on aqua next.
|
On June 25 2013 16:35 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 15:29 Xzavier wrote:On June 25 2013 15:16 FirmTofu wrote:
Hey Xzavier, what do you think about Spicy? Would you be willing to switch your vote onto him? Honestly not today. he did a really good jpb as town last game and gave some good insights. After going threw his filter it seems like he was forced into a defensive posting pattern due to pressure. he hasnt said much recently. Honestly i wouldnt mind lynching alakazam day 1. But ill giv him a chance to respond. Im really not liking chrom or auqa for their tunnelling me while ignoring logic and basing everything off of the fact that i havnt caught scum yet or made a case. The fact that you are willing to change your vote to Alakazam but not Spicy is rather arbitrary. When facing death, a townie would be willing to change his vote to anyone to stay alive. You have sealed your fate in my eyes with this response and have furthered confirmed my suspicions of Spicy. As it seems very few people agree with my suspicions of Spicy, I will defer to a sub-optimal lynch of you. ##Unvote: SpicyDinosaur##Vote: Xzavier
Your logic here is wrong. The two people who have the most votes are xzavier and aqua. If xzavier wanted to stay alive then he would keep his vote on aqua, otherwise his own chance of being lynched goes up if he takes it off. The fact that he's willing to take his vote OFF of the other major lynch candidate and onto another he thinks is scummy shows that he is scum hunting a little. Though were his vote ultimately ends up is the real indicator.
I also dont get how him not voting for me makes him scummier now. No one else in the thread bought your argument against me, yet Xzavier is the only one to receive your wrath for doing so? It looks like you are trying to make arbitrary reasonings to reinforce your vote like you did with me.
|
On June 25 2013 23:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm not liking Xzavier as a D1 lynch but i see why others are voting him. Before chrom threw a vote down on him he did 0 scum hunting and his posts were just policy and/or fluff. With that i can clearly see a vote. However what he has done since the votes started piling on has convinced me he's town. An unproductive town before the vote, but a townie no less.
Insulting 1/2 the people in the thread is not the best way to stop a lynch on you, in fact its a good way to guarantee it. Then he throws a quick vote on aqua with a weak reason to back it up. The vote felt very reactionary like he was going for the first scummy thing he could find, not very calculated. I know some people dont like meta in newbie games, but here i feel Xzavier was just being a lot more cautious with his scum hunting after what happened last game which didnt go so well. I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
On a lesser note, I'm very cautious of the first bandwagon (not necessarily of the person who started it) but because with the piling on its easier for scum to hide in it.
I'm going to look at those who jumped on xzavier and also look at the case on aqua next.
I don't see how insulting half the thread indicates townieness to you at all. If he had in fact come back and shown half the thread they'd made a huge mistake, I'd be with you, but his posts after that didn't have anything mindblowing like that. It feels to me like he was just trying to intimidate people into not voting him, rather than having an actual plan - not a completely impossible reaction from town, but I think it makes more sense as a scum move.
What about "going for the first scummy thing he could find" is in any way a reaction which can only be explained by Xzavier being town? In fact, how is this not more likely as a scum reaction?
I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
His vote for me was him trying to put something down at that point.
Lastly, what about the first bandwagon do you think makes it easier to hide on, as opposed to later wagons? I can't see any difference.
|
On June 25 2013 23:24 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm not liking Xzavier as a D1 lynch but i see why others are voting him. Before chrom threw a vote down on him he did 0 scum hunting and his posts were just policy and/or fluff. With that i can clearly see a vote. However what he has done since the votes started piling on has convinced me he's town. An unproductive town before the vote, but a townie no less.
Insulting 1/2 the people in the thread is not the best way to stop a lynch on you, in fact its a good way to guarantee it. Then he throws a quick vote on aqua with a weak reason to back it up. The vote felt very reactionary like he was going for the first scummy thing he could find, not very calculated. I know some people dont like meta in newbie games, but here i feel Xzavier was just being a lot more cautious with his scum hunting after what happened last game which didnt go so well. I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
On a lesser note, I'm very cautious of the first bandwagon (not necessarily of the person who started it) but because with the piling on its easier for scum to hide in it.
I'm going to look at those who jumped on xzavier and also look at the case on aqua next.
I don't see how insulting half the thread indicates townieness to you at all. If he had in fact come back and shown half the thread they'd made a huge mistake, I'd be with you, but his posts after that didn't have anything mindblowing like that. It feels to me like he was just trying to intimidate people into not voting him, rather than having an actual plan - not a completely impossible reaction from town, but I think it makes more sense as a scum move. What about "going for the first scummy thing he could find" is in any way a reaction which can only be explained by Xzavier being town? In fact, how is this not more likely as a scum reaction? Show nested quote +
I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
His vote for me was him trying to put something down at that point. Lastly, what about the first bandwagon do you think makes it easier to hide on, as opposed to later wagons? I can't see any difference.
What im getting at is that Xzavier's play doesnt feel calculated at all.
What i meant by the insult comment was that it wasn't smart from a scum perspective so it gives a townie vibe to me. Xzavier's quick reaction vote can be explained 100 different ways but to me felt like he thought "oh shit im getting votes, let me make a case quick." THAT can look objectively scummy as it does to many others but to me it doesn't. As for the bandwagons, there really is no difference between hiding. If there are two bandwagons going then scum could split. But usually in the games ive played, the first person to get a wagon going typically isnt scum. Like i said before not a huge point as more of a cautious observation.
|
EBWOP: by the first person getting a wagon going i meant the first person who is getting the votes on them
|
On June 25 2013 23:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:24 Aquanim wrote:On June 25 2013 23:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm not liking Xzavier as a D1 lynch but i see why others are voting him. Before chrom threw a vote down on him he did 0 scum hunting and his posts were just policy and/or fluff. With that i can clearly see a vote. However what he has done since the votes started piling on has convinced me he's town. An unproductive town before the vote, but a townie no less.
Insulting 1/2 the people in the thread is not the best way to stop a lynch on you, in fact its a good way to guarantee it. Then he throws a quick vote on aqua with a weak reason to back it up. The vote felt very reactionary like he was going for the first scummy thing he could find, not very calculated. I know some people dont like meta in newbie games, but here i feel Xzavier was just being a lot more cautious with his scum hunting after what happened last game which didnt go so well. I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
On a lesser note, I'm very cautious of the first bandwagon (not necessarily of the person who started it) but because with the piling on its easier for scum to hide in it.
I'm going to look at those who jumped on xzavier and also look at the case on aqua next.
I don't see how insulting half the thread indicates townieness to you at all. If he had in fact come back and shown half the thread they'd made a huge mistake, I'd be with you, but his posts after that didn't have anything mindblowing like that. It feels to me like he was just trying to intimidate people into not voting him, rather than having an actual plan - not a completely impossible reaction from town, but I think it makes more sense as a scum move. What about "going for the first scummy thing he could find" is in any way a reaction which can only be explained by Xzavier being town? In fact, how is this not more likely as a scum reaction?
I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
His vote for me was him trying to put something down at that point. Lastly, what about the first bandwagon do you think makes it easier to hide on, as opposed to later wagons? I can't see any difference. What im getting at is that Xzavier's play doesnt feel calculated at all. What i meant by the insult comment was that it wasn't smart from a scum perspective so it gives a townie vibe to me. Xzavier's quick reaction vote can be explained 100 different ways but to me felt like he thought "oh shit im getting votes, let me make a case quick." THAT can look objectively scummy as it does to many others but to me it doesn't. As for the bandwagons, there really is no difference between hiding. If there are two bandwagons going then scum could split. But usually in the games ive played, the first person to get a wagon going typically isnt scum. Like i said before not a huge point as more of a cautious observation.
I don't see how insulting the thread is bad from a scum perspective. It gives the illusion that you're confident and whatnot (and thus town) without having to do any scumhunting or anything else useful. In fact, it sounds a lot like what I've heard about Ace's style.
In any case, he did do it and it hasn't "guaranteed" his lynch by any means, so I can't see how it's a bad scum move. For that matter, if it was going to guarantee his lynch, there's nothing about
His case on me, while bad, isn't inherently super-scummy in as of itself. If bad cases were a scumtell this game...  My problem with it (and with his play as a whole) is that he never did anything with it. Xzavier isn't pushing on me to improve his read, he isn't trying to convince anyone else to lynch me, he isn't looking at anyone else... he just dropped a lacklustre case and said "I'm done with scumhunting for the day, time to whinge about how everyone's being nasty to me and expecting me to play up to my meta".
|
EBWOP:
In any case, he did do it and it hasn't "guaranteed" his lynch by any means, so I can't see how it's a bad scum move. For that matter, if it was going to guarantee his lynch, there's nothing about that which makes it a good move as town, either. The insult was noise to me - plausible from town and from scum, so it doesn't affect my read on him much at all.
|
Lastly, who says scum play has to be finely calculated? He said himself he was pressed for time - there's no reason why that shouldn't negatively impact the quality of his planning and calculation if he's scum.
|
On June 25 2013 23:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm not liking Xzavier as a D1 lynch but i see why others are voting him. Before chrom threw a vote down on him he did 0 scum hunting and his posts were just policy and/or fluff. With that i can clearly see a vote. However what he has done since the votes started piling on has convinced me he's town. An unproductive town before the vote, but a townie no less.
Have you looked at it from the perspective that he might be scum that panicked once he had votes on him and only then started doing something to look more towny?
Even now his filter is "plenty of posts, little content", which I find very troublesome, though it I admit I don't feel as sure about this lynch as I did earlier. Also I see that some of my town reads are not on his case or are defending him, which is worrying.
|
On June 25 2013 23:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:24 Aquanim wrote:On June 25 2013 23:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm not liking Xzavier as a D1 lynch but i see why others are voting him. Before chrom threw a vote down on him he did 0 scum hunting and his posts were just policy and/or fluff. With that i can clearly see a vote. However what he has done since the votes started piling on has convinced me he's town. An unproductive town before the vote, but a townie no less.
Insulting 1/2 the people in the thread is not the best way to stop a lynch on you, in fact its a good way to guarantee it. Then he throws a quick vote on aqua with a weak reason to back it up. The vote felt very reactionary like he was going for the first scummy thing he could find, not very calculated. I know some people dont like meta in newbie games, but here i feel Xzavier was just being a lot more cautious with his scum hunting after what happened last game which didnt go so well. I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
On a lesser note, I'm very cautious of the first bandwagon (not necessarily of the person who started it) but because with the piling on its easier for scum to hide in it.
I'm going to look at those who jumped on xzavier and also look at the case on aqua next.
I don't see how insulting half the thread indicates townieness to you at all. If he had in fact come back and shown half the thread they'd made a huge mistake, I'd be with you, but his posts after that didn't have anything mindblowing like that. It feels to me like he was just trying to intimidate people into not voting him, rather than having an actual plan - not a completely impossible reaction from town, but I think it makes more sense as a scum move. What about "going for the first scummy thing he could find" is in any way a reaction which can only be explained by Xzavier being town? In fact, how is this not more likely as a scum reaction?
I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point.
His vote for me was him trying to put something down at that point. Lastly, what about the first bandwagon do you think makes it easier to hide on, as opposed to later wagons? I can't see any difference. What im getting at is that Xzavier's play doesnt feel calculated at all. What i meant by the insult comment was that it wasn't smart from a scum perspective so it gives a townie vibe to me. Xzavier's quick reaction vote can be explained 100 different ways but to me felt like he thought "oh shit im getting votes, let me make a case quick." THAT can look objectively scummy as it does to many others but to me it doesn't. As for the bandwagons, there really is no difference between hiding. If there are two bandwagons going then scum could split. But usually in the games ive played, the first person to get a wagon going typically isnt scum. Like i said before not a huge point as more of a cautious observation.
You cant say he isnt scum because he isnt playing calculated, not all scum play calculated if they did this game would be easy. If Xzavier flips scum and there already being a small link between you two I will be voteing you. I want to hear from xzavier again as my read on alakaslam is stronger at this time though.
|
Spicy, the problem with Xzavier's return is this:
He's mad that we're suspicious of him.
We're suspicious of him because he's been posting without scumhunting.
He's still not scumhunting. His only scumread is Aqua (who happens to be the easiest mislynch right now), based on one post . He hasn't given any good reasons.
If he was town, he would be scumhunting and honestly showing us that he wants to help town.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
