EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XLIII - Page 22
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
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fyfy
Singapore13 Posts
##Vote: Aquanim | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 15:37 Xzavier wrote: But i really dont need to right now lol. I was in the middle of making a case against you when i had to get off the pc. so i posted the little i had. you cant make a case on a phone. sorrym and im not the only one guilty of not pressuring people. hellvim one of the seven who has casted a vote and given a reason why. So why arnt you going after the lurkers who havnt even voted yet by this logic? - LoneMeow's two posts feel more constructive than the entirety of your filter - StiMaDDict is a coinflip - I feel like fyfy, Hurricane Sponge and Alakaslam are at least trying, even if they are not being very effective so far. There could well be scum in this group but I'm not nearly as confident about any one of them as I am about you and Onegu. Voting in as of itself is not scumhunting. You aren't trying to gain information by voting me and your case is pretty bad, which doesn't really leave any possible towny motivation for your vote. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 15:48 fyfy wrote: I'm getting the read now that Aquanim is more scum than Xzavier as Aqua seems to be extremely defensive and I maintain my belief that Xzavier just types like a scum. Reading through the discussion, I am under the belief that Aquanim is scum. ##Vote: Aquanim Can you explain this some more? What exactly about my play do you think is scum-motivated? | ||
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fyfy
Singapore13 Posts
On June 25 2013 14:44 Aquanim wrote: Because it's true. If I have a gut read, I do seek to substantiate it with a case to convince other people though. I don't expect anyone else to be convinced by my gut. What about this statement makes you think I couldn't say it as town? (NB. You should be thinking this about any scum read.) This is ridiculous. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Even if it was a pro-scum position, plenty of people had already said they thought it was a bad idea. I knew when I made that argument that I was arguing against thread sentiment and did it anyway, because I thought (and still think) that that claim would lead to town advantage. You can't say that someone is scum just because they did some stuff which they MIGHT do as scum. You have to find something which they WOULDN'T do as town. Something about the way you type is off, I can't really put my finger on to it. I can't really decide whether you're really town or actually scum doing a good job pretending to be town. If anyone could help me clarify how many mafs/SKs are usually in a 12p game I think I would be able to make better decisions. | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On June 25 2013 15:50 Aquanim wrote: Can you explain this some more? What exactly about my play do you think is scum-motivated? Can you please post your case against me as the only thing you have said is I didnt respond when things were going on, well I was going to sleep when HZ posted his case, I responded to the NN thing and have scum hunted and tried to create a useful town atmosphere. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 15:58 fyfy wrote: Something about the way you type is off, I can't really put my finger on to it. I can't really decide whether you're really town or actually scum doing a good job pretending to be town. If anyone could help me clarify how many mafs/SKs are usually in a 12p game I think I would be able to make better decisions. There's not really much I can say to "you feel a little off". My current thoughts are that I can't believe that four people are voting me on cases this sketchy, and I'm trying to show them why they are wrong, if that helps you understand my mindset at all. Most games of this approximate size on TL have 13 players: 10 town and 3 mafia. Depending on the power role distribution, a Serial Killer could conceivably replace a townie or a scum (that is, 10T-2M-1SK or 9T-3M-1SK). However, Serial Killers are generally rare, even when they're listed as a possible role. Given that there is one less player in this game, I would expect either 9 town-3 mafia or 9 town-2 mafia-1SK. 8T-3M-1SK feels a little too difficult for town. | ||
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fyfy
Singapore13 Posts
As for now, I should not have voted so quickly, I apologise. ##Unvote: Aquanim | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 16:01 Onegu wrote: Can you please post your case against me as the only thing you have said is I didnt respond when things were going on, well I was going to sleep when HZ posted his case, I responded to the NN thing and have scum hunted and tried to create a useful town atmosphere. I have no idea what this request has to do with the post you quoted, but whatever... The first page and a half or so of your filter is just talking about policy, power roles and random fluff without any particular intention of finding scum. This isn't damning in as of itself, early game does tend to be like that, but the entirety of your efforts in the direction of finding scum is an overwhelming tunnel of myself. As far as I can tell, you haven't looked at anyone else at all, and endlessly tunneling a likely lynch target for the day while repeating the same old arguments (made by other people before you, mostly) over and over is a good way to look active while not actually bringing anything new to the table or having to pretend to do some original scumhunting. You haven't made any significant and new contributions to the thread, which is scum's natural state. That being said, I think it's possible that you're town and that you think tunneling me like this is accomplishing something, which is why I'm voting Xzavier over you. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On June 25 2013 15:29 Xzavier wrote: Honestly not today. he did a really good jpb as town last game and gave some good insights. After going threw his filter it seems like he was forced into a defensive posting pattern due to pressure. he hasnt said much recently. Honestly i wouldnt mind lynching alakazam day 1. But ill giv him a chance to respond. Im really not liking chrom or auqa for their tunnelling me while ignoring logic and basing everything off of the fact that i havnt caught scum yet or made a case. The fact that you are willing to change your vote to Alakazam but not Spicy is rather arbitrary. When facing death, a townie would be willing to change his vote to anyone to stay alive. You have sealed your fate in my eyes with this response and have furthered confirmed my suspicions of Spicy. As it seems very few people agree with my suspicions of Spicy, I will defer to a sub-optimal lynch of you. ##Unvote: SpicyDinosaur ##Vote: Xzavier | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On June 25 2013 16:33 Aquanim wrote: I have no idea what this request has to do with the post you quoted, but whatever... The first page and a half or so of your filter is just talking about policy, power roles and random fluff without any particular intention of finding scum. This isn't damning in as of itself, early game does tend to be like that, but the entirety of your efforts in the direction of finding scum is an overwhelming tunnel of myself. As far as I can tell, you haven't looked at anyone else at all, and endlessly tunneling a likely lynch target for the day while repeating the same old arguments (made by other people before you, mostly) over and over is a good way to look active while not actually bringing anything new to the table or having to pretend to do some original scumhunting. You haven't made any significant and new contributions to the thread, which is scum's natural state. That being said, I think it's possible that you're town and that you think tunneling me like this is accomplishing something, which is why I'm voting Xzavier over you. Actually I have made a scum hunt albit small on alakaslam, I think he is noob scum which isnt as important as killing a scum who knows what they are doing. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 16:45 Onegu wrote: Actually I have made a scum hunt albit small on alakaslam, I think he is noob scum which isnt as important as killing a scum who knows what they are doing. You mentioned that he might be scum, but I haven't seen any attempt from you to pressure him, to solidify your read on him, or to suggest him as a lynch for today - that is, you haven't committed much to your read. What about his play is scummy to you? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On June 25 2013 16:45 Onegu wrote: Actually I have made a scum hunt albit small on alakaslam, I think he is noob scum which isnt as important as killing a scum who knows what they are doing. Jesus Christ bud, if you think he's scum, by all means vote him. It's not like you know of any scum who know what they're doing, so you not voting for Alakasam is extremely suspicious to me. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Warning this is long and not especially useful. It was done more more own benefit rather than that of the thread. Just read the conclusion if you don't want to read fluff. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. For an opening, Aqua appears to poke Chromatically. This innocent poke looks like Aqua is just trying to get a response, which is normal scum hunting. So far, not worthy of a scum vote. Aqua then asks FirmTofu twice for his reads on Chromatically: On June 24 2013 15:21 Aquanim wrote: @FirmTofu: What is your read on Chromatically? On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote: My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please. FirmTofu avoided the question the first time, which Aqua would have noted. Asking the question a second time indicates that Aqua was either enquiring into a read on Chrom or Tofu. So far, not worthy of a scum vote, but we need to go forward and try to work out what Aqua was trying to get from Chrom or Tofu. Aqua gets this from FirmTofu: On June 24 2013 16:48 FirmTofu wrote: As for Chromatically... Your case is extremely weak. This is not the most useful information for a town Aqua, but anything is better than nothing. Okay, Aqua is currently just as likely to be town as scum. But then: On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. I do not agree with this. While everyone is different, I think in this forum based game our feelings are more likely to do harm than good. It is also suggesting to people that perhaps we should not make carefully assembled cases. Carefully assembled cases (that are a lot better than mine) are exactly what we want on day 1. My Scum-O-Meter is rising, and my paranoia has made an appearance. When I have time I need to go back and look if you have already left any damning evidence for us to carefully assemble. On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. That's confirmation that when Aqua twice asked Tofu to respond regarding Chrom, then there is a reason for him asking. That's fine as it could be a town reason or a scum reason, but as I keep going I hope to get an idea of what his reason was. On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. That does not give a clear indication as to whether Aqua's was looking into Chrom or actually looking into Tofu under the pre tense of poking Chrom. However, I am leaning towards him actually wanting information from Tofu rather than from Chrom. (I am intentionally staying away from the discussion on lurkers, as it should not be considered relevant to this case but might be a different discussion to have later) On June 24 2013 18:15 Aquanim wrote: Also, @Hurricane, what is your best guess as to who's scum? The plan behind this question is very obvious and simple: get hurricane involved in read-based scum hunting. Nothing scummy here Next Chrom answers: On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote: If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? If Aqua wanted to extract something from Chrom, them I do not think he achieved it with this response. Chrom mentioned that he already posted his reads, but Aqua would of read that hours ago as it was posted at the same time as Aqua's first post. Notice that Chrom actually says what I am saying here with: 'Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. So Aqua responds: On June 24 2013 21:08 Aquanim wrote: tl;dr I had uneasy feelings about you but I feel a lot better after reading this post. My vote was fundamentally to draw reactions from you (to clarify my read) and other people, and to start some meaningful discussion (I don't think anything is accomplished in a thread until somebody's thrown down a vote). I just cannot see where Chrom's reply clarifies Aqua's read. It also failed to get much meaningful discussion from the people involved (Chrom, Tofu and Hurricane). If it were me I would of wanted to go back at Chrom more aggressively, but then Chrom's defence was solid so maybe it would have been a waste of time. I get a slightly scummy read here. On June 25 2013 10:47 Aquanim wrote: The reason why I backed off my case so fast is because I'd previously had only vague feelings that Chromatically was scum, and his replying post felt a lot like aggrieved town to me. You can come up with convoluted reasons as to why I would ask people about their opinions on my case, or you can accept the simpler and correct explanation that I wanted to draw reactions and make other players express their ideas and thinking about the game, which is a strong tool for finding scum. Okay, so Aqua confirms that your case on Chrom was aimed at getting information from Chrom. No one else agreed with you and Chrom made a strong response, but there was space to prod more if you felt it would be useful. I cannot call this scummy Considering that I flung quite a lot of muck Aqua's way I would of expected more responses directed my way, or at least something more than two short paragraphs. What happened instead was that Aqua moved onto the vote that Chrom was setting up. This could be taken as scummy or not, I should ask Aqua some questions relating to this. Conclusion: A little crumminess, but when taken alone without venturing into areas I do not want to at the moment (NN, lurkers, pre-flip associations), it is a weak case. I will probably want to ask a few questions and do some reading before I consider moving my vote though, as I dont currently have a better scum read and have not fully investigated all the cases made by others. | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On June 25 2013 16:48 FirmTofu wrote: Jesus Christ bud, if you think he's scum, by all means vote him. It's not like you know of any scum who know what they're doing, so you not voting for Alakasam is extremely suspicious to me. If I have 2 scum reads I am going to vote for the one that is the biggest threat to town. And the reason I think he is scum is he posts only fluff offers no posts to help town and offers no reads on anyone at all. The only thing he has said is spicy and onegu defend yourself. Then he dissapears, I feel this is super noob scum play but in no way is dangerous to town, on the other hand aqua has posted dangerous even harmful ideas toward town. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
The only slight worry I have on Xzavier is: On June 25 2013 14:33 Xzavier wrote: Whats the massive scum yell. cuz im not gonna lie. i skimmed threw all the noisy neighbor spam just to see who was asking for them to claim. no other part of it means anything to me xD But that could just be a character trait or a lack of time. On the whole I am uncomfortable with the votes on Xzavier. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 17:27 hzflank wrote: Xzavier, Onegu and I all seem to have similar opinions on scum voting, yet we all seem to have greatly differing personalities. This leads me to believe that Xzavier and Onegu are town, as I think they arrived at their opinions by looking at the situation from a town point of view. The only slight worry I have on Xzavier is: But that could just be a character trait or a lack of time. On the whole I am uncomfortable with the votes on Xzavier. Is there anything about Xzavier and Onegu's play which makes you think they're town besides where their vote is? Personally, I can't see anything about their play which makes me think they're looking at this game with a town mentality and actually searching for scum, rather than just jumping on the only other wagon going. I think they are likely scum but I have a much townier read on you because I can see you're thinking about the game and critically evaluating your reads. Their arguments, on the other hand, are mostly "herp derp he disagreed with us about nosy neighbours" and "look at this single post and how it agrees with something someone else said, that's so scummy!". I don't think either of them could sincerely believe I'm scum based on the arguments they've presented. You said you had some questions for me, will they be forthcoming soon? | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On June 25 2013 17:35 Aquanim wrote: Is there anything about Xzavier and Onegu's play which makes you think they're town besides where their vote is? Personally, I can't see anything about their play which makes me think they're looking at this game with a town mentality and actually searching for scum, rather than just jumping on the only other wagon going. I think they are likely scum but I have a much townier read on you because I can see you're thinking about the game and critically evaluating your reads. Their arguments, on the other hand, are mostly "herp derp he disagreed with us about nosy neighbours" and "look at this single post and how it agrees with something someone else said, that's so scummy!". I don't think either of them could sincerely believe I'm scum based on the arguments they've presented. You said you had some questions for me, will they be forthcoming soon? Ok fine I will admit my case on you with my own findings isnt that strong. And looking at Alakaslam again he is my stronger case. ##: UNVOTE ##: VOTE ALAKASLAM But if we lynch Xzavier and he flips town we will be lynching you day 2. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 25 2013 18:08 Onegu wrote: Ok fine I will admit my case on you with my own findings isnt that strong. And looking at Alakaslam again he is my stronger case. ##: UNVOTE ##: VOTE ALAKASLAM But if we lynch Xzavier and he flips town we will be lynching you day 2. Okay. The ball's in your court now to convince the rest of us that Alakaslam is a better lynch than anyone else on the table. | ||
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