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On June 22 2013 21:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Actually (after re-reading), after Hapa writes his "case" on me i'll tell you the following things:
1) Why Hapa and yamato are scum
2) Why marv is town
3) How i play as scum and how i play as town
4) Why i am town and see point #1
I don't see why you'd tell us this, and then sit on said writeup... We have 10 1/2 hours before lynch, and it seems we're nowhere close to coming to some kind of consolidation. If you have some kind of damning super-convincing case on Hapa/Yamato, why not get it out in the open now?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I really don't think yamato is mafia. And I don't think Hapa is either. And I don't know how you feel strongly about Oats and ShiaoPi being town. Basically wtf :/
I agree with GK - we need to see what you have.
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Fine.
Hapa is scum because of the following:
This game at the moment has no real direction. There are a couple of strong players, who when town, take the game into their hands and show the right direction to the town (sorry marv, i believe you will do that later, not on D1). Hapa is one of them, which i have experienced before, particularly in Red.
He is not wanting to be a town leader here. He is asking random questions from random people. He had Goodkarma as his top scum read, then suddenly went on voting for Sloosh and after that dropped the "GK is my top scumread", did not answer me about that when asked, masked it with a question about yamato for me and went on with "something is off with rayn and DP", didn't explain that any more and said he would be writing stuff about me later. Does this sound like a townie behaviour?
This is probably because yamato is mafia too, and with no real direction in the game right now, he might get lynched. If mafia does not do something soon, one of their own will get lynched so they are trying to pursue more and more targets to hide in the shadows.
Also this is why i think marv is town. If marv was mafia i think he would be more than happy to take the game into his hands and play it his way. Marv has lately stayed more in the shadows as town early on in the game and this is what it looks like to be the case here. Marv has a really strong scumplay and i would expect him to try to control the game more if he was mafia.
As for how i play. I mostly make my reads from how people interact with me. That's why i engage the discussions that are currently going on in thread and tend to forget about stuff said earlier on in the game unless asked again (for example, i completely missed Sloosh having a case against me in some game i don't remember for like 24h before i even realized it was there). When i am mafia i try to mimic this as much as possible, and that usually at some point fails apart if the town is too competant. I basically bank on the fact that "there will always be someone more scummy than me".
Now Hapa, am i bullshitting in what i said here and if i am not, why do you think i am scum? You have seen me play scum in a game that i was actually able to play to the fullest. Why do you actually think yamato is town? You basically ask him questions and whatever he answers you reply with "okay, that's fair enough". You are taking him at face value at the earliest possible moment, and that's really REALLY fishy. Yamato never explained his reasoning behind his town-reads actually being null yet you have never talked about that again. You labeled GK as your top scum read and after that you place a vote on Sloosh and after one post from him you take the vote back and hop on entirely different things. It does not make sense from town PoV.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Hapahauli
I think Oats is town because his play to me seems like trademark town!Oats play. I have played with him as scum (hydraed) and while we didn't have a much chance to interact i know how he thinks as mafia and this is not what it seems like to be here.
I think ShiaoPi is town mainly because i think this post is very good and i mostly agree with it:
On June 22 2013 19:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
wow goodkarma's case one me was just as terrible as the one on oats.
Fairly happy with where my vote is right now.
Just for the sake of refuting:
I am not contradicting myself there, gk just shows lack of reading thoroughly. I am voting him cause he is fabricating stuff on oats, meta is supportive of my trian of thought not the main argument. So since you just did another terrible forced case, my vote is more than justified.
I am striking sloosh of the list for now and adding some others.
Ange, DP and OO really should come in and take some stances now
Ange has only been asking questions thus far and not been very helpful, DP is playing not as active as I am used to and OO just vanished.
None of them strike me as scummy as gk though so my vote stays.
I'll be around for a bit, but then off to party so don't even expect me to be around deadline.
Now read Hapa's filter and tell me where he is actually trying to play the game to the fullest?
Also read what he said about me, mainly this part:
He's literally suspicious of every person in this game. And not in a "paranoid, spazzy townie" way. It feels very controlled and deliberate, which is just strange and scummy.
Prove me that this is true. Show me. I challenge you Hapa.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I'll let the non-malicious dig on my Day 1 slide...  I'll just talk about a couple of other things. Could you explain the differences you believe there to be in Oats' thought processes between town/mafia? I admit freely I haven't had much luck reading him lately until the game goes later (where he usually drops off in activity quite markedly as mafia) and on Day 1 I've misread him several times. I'd say that I think Oats is town myself, mostly because beyond the usual banality there's evidence of actual thought that seems to be missing in his scumgames, I think.
As for the ShiaoPi post, I don't find it very good, it actually worries me more than earlier on, when I thought ShiaoPi might be town because his interactions seemed sincere/honest with his explanations of his really dodgy opening post. For anyone who played/watched Dr Who with me, it felt similar to my interactions with Sharrant when I was suspicious of him, although I'm far less sure on my outcome with ShiaoPi. The remaining problem I have with Shiao is that he and GK seem to have gotten into this ding-dong which only affects them, or, at least, everyone else is largely ignoring.
Aside from that I'm still not getting the yamato scumvibe thing and Hapa can answer for himself. I think some of the points you make are valid, but don't necessarily make him scum - but yeah, that one's Hapa's ball to field.
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scum!Oats goes into shitfests with people for sake of going into shitfests. Like in hydra 2 where he "tunneled" Mockarmor for the whole D1 and when it was time for us to vote, he ended up saying "i can't make a case on Mockarmor because they are town". Another trademark for Oats' scumpkay is that he is far more hesitant to voice his opinions. I caught him in Ego purely because on the last day he wanted to wait for opinions from players he thought were strong (iamp and DP). That's not what Oats does as town. I am not seeing this "characteristics" from Oats in this game.
I mainly had a problem with ShiaoPi first because he popped in to explain himself only after me and you were talking about GK's case on Oats. He attacked GK and at that point it seemed like he was trying to just follow the thread sentiment -> hop on any target he could find. Now that the shitstorm has went on between them for a while i think ShiaoPi as scum would let go of GK. I think he genuinely believes GK is scum (as i also agree with him about GK) and that's why he is going on with his rant with GK. And in my opinion ShiaoPi looks much better than GK. I also agree with him what he says about Ange/DP/OO and Sloosh did something that was weird in my opinion when i looked at the thread this morning, i just can't remember what it was.
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Oh it was this:
On June 22 2013 08:05 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:49 Hapahauli wrote:@ sloOshOn June 22 2013 07:43 slOosh wrote:On June 22 2013 07:38 Hapahauli wrote:
@ slOosh
I'm more interested in the content you decide to produce yourself (namely scumhunting) than anything else. Are you all caught up?
More or less. The general things that caught my eye were ObviousOne's entry and ShiaoPi's entry. Can you give me a fuller opinion on Shiao (besides his entry of course)? Umm ... his other posts look better. I like that he is posting on goodkarma, which is "unique" (opposed to going with the flow non contributary post scum sometimes make). I'll wait on reading goodkarma's posts and their interaction before I can give you a better judgement call than that.
At that time it was definitely not unique (as i explained in my last post).
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marv, talk to me.
what's your read on Cora?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 22 2013 23:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, talk to me.
what's your read on Cora?
Seems town, because he's mimicking his total prickishness towards me in all games to a tee.
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I kinda wanted to ask that because if you thought he is town for same reasons i did. You didn't. :/
Who do you think is scum, let's talk about them.
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On June 22 2013 23:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I kinda wanted to ask that because if you thought he is town for same reasons i did. You didn't. :/
Who do you think is scum, let's talk about them.
I rarely think the same as you, and I'm sure we're both pretty happy about that ^^
My scumreads are limited to the lurkers, I've already said what has to be said about Obvious and Ange (which isn't a great deal), and I could probably lynch either at this stage, although I prefer Obvious. Ange is an asset so hopefully she shows that today :x
Shiao says that goodkarma feels the same as he did in their scumgame, but to me gk feels the same as in Les Mis. He's been more around and active than he was in the scumgame, pushing his ideas some even if I don't really agree with them so much. GK has also had flashes of irritation which were present in Les Mis.
Sylencia is just absent, slOosh who knows. He sounds ok but that's about it
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I think the same about Ange/OO. OO has basically disappeared after his horrible "policy lynch my townread" comment and Ange seems to be somehow "off". Her questions are all over the place and while i liked one of them they seem to have no follow up's. I don't really know where she's trying to head with her play and it worries me.
Your read on GK is basically why i am hesitant to call him scum. I know from personal experience he is "capable" of doing this kinda stuff as town, and while what he is doing here i see as horribly bad i don't think that absolutely makes him scum.
I disagree with Sloosh sounding ok, because i don't think he has said anything good. Sylencia will get replaced so pretty much nothing to talk about him.
Why do you marv think yamato is town?
Also, Goodkarma:
You wanted me to post the case on Hapa asap. Would you comment on it now that it's been posted? What do you think of Hapa/yamato?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I've said what I have to say about yamato already, nothing's really changed since then except my opinion has been slightly reinforced.
We appear to have different thoughts on his meta and how it applies; simply enough I think with reasonable conviction that my read on it is right and yours is not. I was going to take a couple of his posts and highlight stuff within them that sounds like "town" yamato, but the whole tone just sounds like him.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2013 16:14 yamato77 wrote:
I have little no interest in further explaining the posts that I have already made. Read them yourselves if you fail to understand what I've said.
That being the case, it's ridiculously disturbing that Hapa comes in with a pseudo-case on me after Oats and DP both agree that I'm somehow still scummy. None of this was said while I was talking to Hapa earlier, nor has he seemed particularly enthusiastic about lynching me in the first place. Hapa as scum would be afraid to attack me openly and directly, especially without support, but Hapa as town would be fearless and bullheaded in his suspicion of me, if it actually existed.
The way Hapa has played this so far, I'm reasonably convinced that he is mafia. His noncommittal stance on me and his weak reads elsewhere are not what I would expect from town Hapa. This Hapa seems much more content with blending in than actually leading discussion, a trait that I associate directly with scum Hapa.
Looks like I should have gone with my gut from his first post.
##Vote Hapahauli On June 22 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote:
My opinion of OO has changed. Upon re-examination, and due to his lack of contribution in over 24 hours, I now consider him a decent candidate for lynch.
Sloosh posted meaningful things, I'm willing to let him slide by. Sylencia is apparently replacing out, which is a scum tell lately. Everyone else besides yourself, DP, Ange, and Shaio seem relatively town enough for me to write them off FOR TODAY.
There are, indeed, other parts of Shaio's play I don't like, but they aren't convincing enough to make me want to lynch him. He was lynchbait in my first scumgame while he was alive, and you guys did end up lynching his replacement largely as a result of this.
Perhaps my phrasing has been poor this game, but being clear with how I feel about a particular player's posting when things are not as black and white as I'd like them to be is difficult. I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not particularly confident in any read. On June 22 2013 17:13 yamato77 wrote:
My problem with you is that you seem afraid to call me mafia, like you're scared that I'll insta-tunnel you for it and get you lynched. This doesn't feel like the organic line of questioning I usually receive from town Hapa at all.
Just like, the cockiness of saying "i've explained in my posts already, go read them", the hyperbole he utilises "it's ridiculously disturbing", and where he sounds like he's passing judgement from a position of authority "Sloosh posted meaningful things, I'm willing to let him slide by". I could go on, but I'm not really sure it would convince you if I did.
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Wait a sec i gotta read Red Teams Prize once again, i'll soon get back to you on yamato.
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Honestly the weirdest thing about Hapa to me is that he feels weird about you.
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I don't think yamato lacks the cockiness as mafia. Do you remember the posts like "I'll lay out the scumteam for you tomorrow" or when he calls people idiot for not reading prplhz's posts how he viewed them?
The posts you quoted are however interesting. At least a couple of things. In the first post yamato seems to be thinking the same i am thinking about Hapa at the moment. I don't understand why he dropped that as i don't see how Hapa's play has changed since to make such a drop from what he said. In the second post he lays out his reads. Interestingly enough, when Hapa says he is suspicious of me and DP, yamato answers him he is going to go re-read my posts. Not DP's, because "it bothers him that DP is willing to lynch OO". That's a weird reason for not to look into someone (who btw is more of a scumread for yamato than i am). For me their (Hapa/yamato) interactions seem forced and not natural.
I'm a bit puzzled why didn't you want to know why i think Cora is town. Why is that?
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First of all, I'm not trying to be a prick to you Marv. You're just trying to bully me into frustration yet again, just as you've done to me in every single game. It's not even an issue of whether I'm town or scum, you're just trying to pressure me for the sake of being a bully at this points. Please stop, as I really do not appreciate it. I'm really trying to be calm and level-headed as angry and frustrated Corazon tends to do really stupid things (vote for myself, stop caring, tunnel people to no end) that really just become a distraction for town and don't get anything done.
That being said, I have read the back and forth that happened between Hapa and Yamato. In my opinion, Yamato is still scummy and Hapa is town. Here's why:
I've always been really suspicious of Yamato because as town he acts really abrasive and doesn't ever back down. He still makes certain comments of annoyance and fearlessness, but they really do not come off as genuine. He's not fighting hard enough for his scum reads as town Yamato usually does. In fact, he is backing down from his reads really easily and basically giving up on them once someone argues with him about his scumreads. Also, the fact that he attacked Hapa (someone who has been on his case for a while now) mirrors Red Team's Prize, where he basically tried to OMGUS me using really terrible reasons (trying to call me scum even though my claimed mason partner was basically town in everyone's eyes, including Yamato's).
Rayn said that Hapa is not living up to his town meta as being the "leader of the town". I think Hapa is doing a good job getting his reads across and provoking discussion. I could see Hapa being a bit less of a leader for one reason: In I Sware Mafia, he promised that he was going to try and post less during the game. However, he was town and really became the town leader. He had a spat with one or two other townies that gave scum a really good chance to sit around and establish townieness. Coming off of that game, I could see Hapa taking a bit less of a role in being town leader. I think he's trying to change his playstyle just a little bit. Not much comes off that I see is scummy.
I'm pretty sure that one of Oats or Yamato is scum. Since Oats isn't getting lynched today, I have enough confidence in my Yamato read to not leave my vote as a hipster vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Yamato
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
We can back and forth on how you and I view yamato's meta, but I don't see the point. I think I know yamato better than you do and I think I'm right.
I don't really care why you think Cora is town. Why should I?
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Cora why do you think Hapa suddenly and totally dropped off his "GK is my biggest scumred"?
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Corazon, don't give me the shit that I'm trying to bully you into frustration.
I asked slOosh a question on ONE of your posts, and you responded with "omg marv are you really going to start that shit again you're so wrong you always tunnel me why do you even bother". Oh and "marv could be scum but I don't think stupidity is a scumtrait" again referring to a question I asked someone else.
Bully my fucking ass.
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On June 23 2013 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
We can back and forth on how you and I view yamato's meta, but I don't see the point. I think I know yamato better than you do and I think I'm right.
I don't really care why you think Cora is town. Why should I?
Why shouldn't you? If i am town i have genuine reasons to believe he is town. If i am mafia i already know he is town, thus my reasons might not be genuine.
Why are you not trying to read me at all? Have you just decided that i am town or do you somehow know i am town?
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EPT
