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On June 18 2013 08:43 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 08:37 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 08:33 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 08:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 08:20 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 08:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 08:13 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 08:10 mkfuba07 wrote:On June 18 2013 07:59 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 07:58 mkfuba07 wrote:
What are you talking about? I don't see how those two situations are in any way similar or related. I didn't even say anything about you giving rayn a town read. Scum vivax, with the cop role, could have given a town read to anyone in the game. He instead gave it to the one person most likely to be mislynched (imo). That would have been a silly play for scum. they are pretty much exactly the same. A scummy person giving a town read on some one that most of the game thinks is scum. Everyone was voting rayn and I gave him a town read everyone was suspicious of vivax/going to vote him and he gave sentinel a town check, some one that the game also thought was pretty scummy. what is the difference The difference is the ACTUAL ALIGNMENT OF THE FLIPPED TOWN READ/CHECK! And also the complete lack of any reasoning whatsoever on your part. Town vivax was cop, he checked his scumread, scumread comes back town, he says in the thread that he's town. There is reason for town vivax to believe it. Exactly as much reason as you would have had to believe the check if we lynched vivax and he flipped town, as a matter of fact. Scum vivax, on the other hand, was giving a town *check* on someone who is likely to be lynched. That *doesn't* make sense. You gave a town *read* on someone for no reason whatsoever. That person ended up flipping and was revealed as the scum power role. You had no reason to give a town read on rayn as town (as shown by the fact that you didn't actually have a reason for your town read). As scum, however, the reason is obvious. That is how the two are different. if you want your reason here it is: There is zero benefit to a scum player trying to buddy up with a player that has no pull in the game, so the fact that he tried that with me as opposed to some one that could actually change his lynch was baffling. How was he trying to change his lynch exactly by 'buddying' you? I remember you bringing that up earlier and thought to myself that it was strange that you'd think of ti that way. You, my friend, have warranted a re-read. In fact I think I want to start actually putting some effort in now since my lategame play is notoriously bad. Kita, thoughts on the mislynch please? At this point I doubt this town will ever win, much too fickle. At least I have a clear cut plan on how to approach this game instead of just randomly killing off town. You don't think its weird that scum that is set to be lynched would randomly say I am town when there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop him from being lynched? I think scum do what they wanna do when they're on the chopping block. You should know this. But we did not know he was scum at the time...you keep asking/answering these questions with the assumption rayn was scum. At the time we did not know. I thought only a town rayn would attempt to get help from a newer player for no reason but apparently I was wrong. If he was scum on the chopping block I would much more expect him to try to garner trust from a vet and have them get the mislynch off him. Or, ya know, scum WIFOM and shit, and it means nothing and you constantly look into it for what reason? A scum Rayn would try to garner trust from a vet, huh? I think in every game I've ever played every time I've ever made obvious attempts to 'buddy' people (as town, mind you) I get called out for it. Vivax I believe one of those times was you. If anything I think buddying up to a vet as scum is a horrible idea because it is likely to make said vet take a long hard look at you. (PS I don't have much regard for the vet/newbie split anymore for the record, I need to stop using the terms.) so why do I not get to keep up looking into but people get to bring up the fact that I wasn't on the rayn bandwagon? double standard much? You guys are gonna have to do better then double standards and inconsistencies to pin anything on me.
How is what I typed a double standard? Of course you're allowed to look into whatever you want, but I just find it interesting that this is one point you have consistently brought up as a defense for yourself, one that I personally see as having very little merit. I have to look into it a little bit more.
I didn't even bring up the fact that you weren't on the Rayn bandwagon.
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Vayne I apologize for saying this in advance because I don't put much faith in it as a heuristic, but you're certainly pulling one of those 'the lady doth protest too much' deals on me here. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I don't know what I'm going to find when I dive you, and I'm not doing so just because I think you'll turn up scummy. In fact if you're ever looked into any of my filter-diving analysis, much of it pulling up points that can be thought of from either alignment and turning to the thread for assistance.
This is a stupid question, but why are you so concerned?
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On June 18 2013 09:14 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 08:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Vayne I apologize for saying this in advance because I don't put much faith in it as a heuristic, but you're certainly pulling one of those 'the lady doth protest too much' deals on me here. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I don't know what I'm going to find when I dive you, and I'm not doing so just because I think you'll turn up scummy. In fact if you're ever looked into any of my filter-diving analysis, much of it pulling up points that can be thought of from either alignment and turning to the thread for assistance.
This is a stupid question, but why are you so concerned? I haven't been mislynched yet, and I plan to keep it that way.
Yes but there's a difference in how we play when we're about to get mislynched. (Which, as you've said, does not happen in the end.)
Your play is very self-centered and you're always out for survival, even when it's not arguably necessary (see your cop claim in I Swear). When I was about to get mislynched as GravityMan I didn't spout defense after defense, because you can still win a game even after being mislynched if you provide something that helps the town kill scum after you're gone. Your primary concern should be to lynch scum, not your own survival. End of story. I am aware that is not indicative of you being scum or town because that's just the way you play, but it's part of the reason why people haven't found you particularly useful in many of the games we have played together.
Eventually I imagine if you keep up your behaviour the way it has been you'd be the type of person to get policy lynched as people will realize it's not worth keeping you alive until later on. (Although a counterpoint to this is kushmasta's baffling lategame survival rate despite his play every game.)
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On June 18 2013 09:33 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 09:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 09:14 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 08:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Vayne I apologize for saying this in advance because I don't put much faith in it as a heuristic, but you're certainly pulling one of those 'the lady doth protest too much' deals on me here. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I don't know what I'm going to find when I dive you, and I'm not doing so just because I think you'll turn up scummy. In fact if you're ever looked into any of my filter-diving analysis, much of it pulling up points that can be thought of from either alignment and turning to the thread for assistance.
This is a stupid question, but why are you so concerned? I haven't been mislynched yet, and I plan to keep it that way. Yes but there's a difference in how we play when we're about to get mislynched. (Which, as you've said, does not happen in the end.) Your play is very self-centered and you're always out for survival, even when it's not arguably necessary (see your cop claim in I Swear). When I was about to get mislynched as GravityMan I didn't spout defense after defense, because you can still win a game even after being mislynched if you provide something that helps the town kill scum after you're gone. Your primary concern should be to lynch scum, not your own survival. End of story. I am aware that is not indicative of you being scum or town because that's just the way you play, but it's part of the reason why people haven't found you particularly useful in many of the games we have played together. Eventually I imagine if you keep up your behaviour the way it has been you'd be the type of person to get policy lynched as people will realize it's not worth keeping you alive until later on. (Although a counterpoint to this is kushmasta's baffling lategame survival rate despite his play every game.) it was actually pretty necessary considering I had work all day that day and wouldn't be able to properly defend myself before the deadline. Would have lost a blue for no reason, but I digress this is pretty off-topic. As I've said multiple times to anyone that takes that route when approaching me - If you don't like my play, so be it, but don't try to make it alignment indicative.
Your primary concern should be to lynch scum, not your own survival. End of story. I am aware that is not indicative of you being scum or town because that's just the way you play, but it's part of the reason why people haven't found you particularly useful in many of the games we have played together.
I believe I've asked you this before, Vayne in other games. What do you plan on doing to help town win this game besides defending yourself? Why should you not be considered a policy lynch in future games?
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On June 18 2013 09:54 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 09:39 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 09:33 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 09:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 09:14 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 18 2013 08:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Vayne I apologize for saying this in advance because I don't put much faith in it as a heuristic, but you're certainly pulling one of those 'the lady doth protest too much' deals on me here. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I don't know what I'm going to find when I dive you, and I'm not doing so just because I think you'll turn up scummy. In fact if you're ever looked into any of my filter-diving analysis, much of it pulling up points that can be thought of from either alignment and turning to the thread for assistance.
This is a stupid question, but why are you so concerned? I haven't been mislynched yet, and I plan to keep it that way. Yes but there's a difference in how we play when we're about to get mislynched. (Which, as you've said, does not happen in the end.) Your play is very self-centered and you're always out for survival, even when it's not arguably necessary (see your cop claim in I Swear). When I was about to get mislynched as GravityMan I didn't spout defense after defense, because you can still win a game even after being mislynched if you provide something that helps the town kill scum after you're gone. Your primary concern should be to lynch scum, not your own survival. End of story. I am aware that is not indicative of you being scum or town because that's just the way you play, but it's part of the reason why people haven't found you particularly useful in many of the games we have played together. Eventually I imagine if you keep up your behaviour the way it has been you'd be the type of person to get policy lynched as people will realize it's not worth keeping you alive until later on. (Although a counterpoint to this is kushmasta's baffling lategame survival rate despite his play every game.) it was actually pretty necessary considering I had work all day that day and wouldn't be able to properly defend myself before the deadline. Would have lost a blue for no reason, but I digress this is pretty off-topic. As I've said multiple times to anyone that takes that route when approaching me - If you don't like my play, so be it, but don't try to make it alignment indicative. Your primary concern should be to lynch scum, not your own survival. End of story. I am aware that is not indicative of you being scum or town because that's just the way you play, but it's part of the reason why people haven't found you particularly useful in many of the games we have played together. I believe I've asked you this before, Vayne in other games. What do you plan on doing to help town win this game besides defending yourself? Why should you not be considered a policy lynch in future games? If people didn't think I was scummy every game I would be able to do other things besides defend myself how about that? When people get better at scumhunting maybe I will find time to write about other stuff. This doesn't pertain to this game at all so it is pretty off topic. If people want to policy lynch me, go ahead! won't make me or you any better at this game.
Of course it pertains to this game. You blame other people for your own scumhunting shortcomings ingame; you did so in I Swear. You shouldn't be giving a shit about what other people think of you; hell you've even said you don't give a shit what other people think about you but your play always ALWAYS belies that you actually do care. If you truly didn't care you'd let people say what they want and you'd go out and prove yourself through your actions. Which you never do, hence having to resort to things like shitty cop claims.
This discussion is helping me a great deal with my meta analysis btw, so thanks. 
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On June 06 2013 10:32 VayneAuthority wrote:
Oh I see so we will actually have to waste a lynch on me at some point. That's unfortunate. Bad luck but it happens.
He picked me and JJD to protect him from dying, not really the best defense but w/e I guess that's just WIFOM
Can you explain this, please?
Where is JJD even mentioned in Rayn's filter?
How exactly does Rayn giving you a townread protect him from dying? I still really don't see it. Giving someone a townread is probably one of the worst ways I can think of to try and protect yourself from a mislynch. You think if Rayn gave me a townread I'd just fold and say "Oh well, Rayn thinks I'm town, and he's right, therefore he must not be scum?"
I really don't follow your thought process here at all.
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Oh and if anybody else feels like contributing and/or showing up, by all means, please.
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On June 08 2013 04:15 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 04:14 JarJarDrinks wrote:On June 08 2013 04:11 VayneAuthority wrote:
He said I was town because he was trying to buddy up people outside of the mafia to get the lynch changed, he did the same thing with JJD. This isn't that complicated. ???? Read rayne's filter and it will become apparent
Even JJD was confused. It's not apparent at all.
On June 08 2013 03:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
Im pretty much confirmed town after rayne flipped red, anyone pushing on me reminds me of goodkarma from the les mis game, except im goodkarma this game.
Like....wtf IS this.
I truly don't understand how your mind works, Vayne.
I've been trying to read Les Mafia from the town perspective and, like I've stated before, you try harder and look townier in that game than any other game you've played in thus far.
Why on god's green earth would you think a Rayn red flip where he names you town makes you confirmed town?
Your play in general is a clear indication for you being town this game (and it certainly should have been clear in I Swear but then you do things like YOLOshoot a town Oats) but I worry because I know you've become aware of your meta on this site. It's stuff like this that is going to force you to become a policy lynch in games that people (or at least I) play with you.
Still reading.
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That's not true, you gave plenty of reads and analysis in Les Mafia when you were scum. So I certainly know that kind if thing IS possible from you, but for some reason you're more content to sit back and do nothing as town and let your team lose. You're right I was just as responsible for the town loss in I Swear as you were.
Anyway,
On June 13 2013 10:28 VayneAuthority wrote:
I apologize if you are town vivax but lynching you solves the game for me FMPOV. If you were Rb'ed the other night and show up as scum, then WoS goes back to not being clear. If you are town then I know that WoS is also town and as a result his RB on sentinel is real, and your cop claim is real, meaning sentinel would either have to be godfather or it was simply kita that was shot which would clear him too.
You are the piece that sets a lot of things into motion.
##vote:Vivax
Can you explain how the game is solved now if Vivax flips town?
There's a bunch of other questions I have for you in my past few posts, of course it's up to you as to whether or not you want to answer them.
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On June 18 2013 10:22 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 10:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 08 2013 04:15 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 08 2013 04:14 JarJarDrinks wrote:On June 08 2013 04:11 VayneAuthority wrote:
He said I was town because he was trying to buddy up people outside of the mafia to get the lynch changed, he did the same thing with JJD. This isn't that complicated. ???? Read rayne's filter and it will become apparent Even JJD was confused. It's not apparent at all. On June 08 2013 03:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
Im pretty much confirmed town after rayne flipped red, anyone pushing on me reminds me of goodkarma from the les mis game, except im goodkarma this game. Like....wtf IS this. I truly don't understand how your mind works, Vayne. I've been trying to read Les Mafia from the town perspective and, like I've stated before, you try harder and look townier in that game than any other game you've played in thus far. Why on god's green earth would you think a Rayn red flip where he names you town makes you confirmed town? Your play in general is a clear indication for you being town this game (and it certainly should have been clear in I Swear but then you do things like YOLOshoot a town Oats) but I worry because I know you've become aware of your meta on this site. It's stuff like this that is going to force you to become a policy lynch in games that people (or at least I) play with you. Still reading. I don't even know where I got the JJD thing from, I might have mixed up games there or something because he clearly says nothing about JJD. You know after les mis that if rayn was red I would be all over that bandwagon from bussing 101. The fact that I was wary of lynching him and so incorrect should be a huge towntell, but it isn't when I have to directly say it so many times so pretty null.
This is actually a pretty good point.
The weird slips on JJD wig me out though. Not scumslips but you go so far as to use him in a defense of yours TWICE. Clearly you used this without looking back and the game before you defended yourself as such. You must understand why this is a point of concern for me, ESPECIALLY if I don't take the other part of the defense (Rayn calling you town) as legitimate.
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EBWOP looking back AT this game before you defended yourself
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On June 18 2013 07:41 mkfuba07 wrote:
There are too many people left in this game for me... I can't get my mind straight. I've been reduced to little more than null on too many people after the sent mislynch. I'd been down to sent, vivax, prplhz, and a bit stutters, but was so sure of sent. Now it's like I'm just shooting blindly into a crowd. I don't feel like scum vivax would give a town read to sentinel when he was such an easy mislynch. I also feel like prplhz seems really sincere in his recent posting, but I'm often really swayed by these last minute appeals, so I usually keep myself from posting all that much.
I don't know... I feel like we're walking into another mislynch, but I don't know who we should lynch instead. I'd feel better with a Vayne lynch, probably, but that might just be because he's been bothering me all game. I've flip-flopped all over him, and can't come up with a town read unless I interpret his typical nonchalance as a town tell (which I have been until now). I don't like how much faith he seems to be willing to put into the night actions, when I personally feel like it's very difficult to trust anything about them. His willingness to lynch vivax just to get information from night actions, when night actions could have easily been manipulated by scum in some way, is something that I don't really expect from town. Then there's how positive he was of sent being town, when most people were either null/unsure. I really don't like any of it.
Is anyone else up for a vayne lynch? I doubt we have enough time/people to switch it, but this lynch feels wrong...
##Vote: VayneAuthority
Random thought reading through Vayne.
I absolutely HATE this post by you, Fuba.
It's so apologetic and the fact that you'd post it right before a mislynch on Prp just screams scum.
Vayne.
Thoughts?
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On June 18 2013 10:28 VayneAuthority wrote:
Yea I don't even know what to say about the JJD thing. I have a photographic memory and could picture the post in my head and everything so I didn't even feel like I needed to look. the fact that the post doesn't exist is very concerning, for reasons both inside and outside of this game
Sorry I kinda loled.
Anyway,
If vivax is town... = you are town, I am town, kita is town now that we know that sentinel is town. You don't think thats pretty amazing to have?
Can you explain this in more detail? I don't really follow.
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Fuck my brain.
I know I'm like...ALWAYS wrong with my conspiracy theory stuff, but I'm almost certain now scum has withheld a shot at some point.
If it was the shot on N3 then it means both Fuba and Kita are likely scum, and would fit with the idea that Ace sacced himself because he had a capable scumteam and the 'confirmed town' status that Ace gave to fuba before he decided to essentially off himself.
It is becoming increasingly apparent to me that this is one of those games where the scumteam is blending incredibly well, tryharding like a boss (increasingly common in games I've been in lately), and letting bad townies be bad.
In this case 2 scum among Vivax/kita/fuba.
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On June 18 2013 10:40 VayneAuthority wrote:
Like how has vivax escaped lynch for so long, it's mind blowing. Like I said, whoever the last 2 scum are have incredible influence as they have not only gotten us to mislynch 2 days in a row, but 2 very stupid mislynches that give us shitty information
You say this, and then refuse to think about a no-kill or self target with abilities?
This may be what we are in fact dealing with, my friend. The only way scum are this influential are if they are within the group that I mentioned earlier.
To be fair, I was one of the first few people to switch off Vivax after being on him during the Sent lynch day. I just find it very hard to believe he is playing a scum-motivated game, but I guess when you have a town like this you don't exactly need to?
Vayne if you are truly town I ask that you step and provide some concrete analysis here, because I can't do it on my own against a 'vet' scumteam.
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Do you feel my 'conspiracy theory' thinking has any merit?
Is there anyone who should not be suspect at this time?
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On June 18 2013 11:42 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 10:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Fuck my brain.
I know I'm like...ALWAYS wrong with my conspiracy theory stuff, but I'm almost certain now scum has withheld a shot at some point.
If it was the shot on N3 then it means both Fuba and Kita are likely scum, and would fit with the idea that Ace sacced himself because he had a capable scumteam and the 'confirmed town' status that Ace gave to fuba before he decided to essentially off himself.
It is becoming increasingly apparent to me that this is one of those games where the scumteam is blending incredibly well, tryharding like a boss (increasingly common in games I've been in lately), and letting bad townies be bad.
In this case 2 scum among Vivax/kita/fuba. And ugh... I absolutely love to fucking repeat myself, but ace had NOTHING to do with my "confirmed town" status. Him saying it doesn't mean that it wasn't true. I really don't see how this is in ANY WAY difficult to understand, because it's really, really simple. Townie does something. EVERYONE knows it likely makes him confirmed town. Scum points it out verbally in the thread. THIS HAS NO EFFECT ON THE ORIGINAL ACTION.
So ignore that then.
Ignore anything I've mentioned where it says 'such and such fits.'
Does my thinking have any merit?
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On June 18 2013 12:45 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:51 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 18 2013 11:42 mkfuba07 wrote:On June 18 2013 10:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Fuck my brain.
I know I'm like...ALWAYS wrong with my conspiracy theory stuff, but I'm almost certain now scum has withheld a shot at some point.
If it was the shot on N3 then it means both Fuba and Kita are likely scum, and would fit with the idea that Ace sacced himself because he had a capable scumteam and the 'confirmed town' status that Ace gave to fuba before he decided to essentially off himself.
It is becoming increasingly apparent to me that this is one of those games where the scumteam is blending incredibly well, tryharding like a boss (increasingly common in games I've been in lately), and letting bad townies be bad.
In this case 2 scum among Vivax/kita/fuba. And ugh... I absolutely love to fucking repeat myself, but ace had NOTHING to do with my "confirmed town" status. Him saying it doesn't mean that it wasn't true. I really don't see how this is in ANY WAY difficult to understand, because it's really, really simple. Townie does something. EVERYONE knows it likely makes him confirmed town. Scum points it out verbally in the thread. THIS HAS NO EFFECT ON THE ORIGINAL ACTION. So ignore that then. Ignore anything I've mentioned where it says 'such and such fits.' Does my thinking have any merit? Just to make sure, are you asking about whether or not I think someone highly considered to be town is actually scum? Or are you asking if I think scum withheld kp for a night? I'll respond to it in a post before the daypost, but I want to be sure to answer the right question.
Personally I feel if one is true then both are likely to be.
Answer whichever you feel.
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Yay 50% win ratio intact!
Gg all!
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EPT
