EPTRegardless of pt afk state.
Ifmnhw is scum. Going to have to read carefully before voting off pt
Smurf Mini Mafia - Page 7
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TheDavison
157 Posts
Regardless of pt afk state. Ifmnhw is scum. Going to have to read carefully before voting off pt | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
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TheDavison
157 Posts
I refuse to accept McCoy is scum. Absolutely refuse it. Which probably makes eccleston town. Scum just can't be that stupid, and his qt partner would be hammering him. So Baker, h3, pt ... 2 are scum. Baker Nostradamus ability pre lynch doesn't look good. Without a re read I'm considering a baker/h3 team now. See ya later. Very important 24hrs. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
I know I rukled out wccleston before. But just had a brain wave. Hartnell didn't give a shit he was getting lynched. Simply did not care, which goes in hand with quite a few ppl this game who disappear for long periods at a time. The only two people that lifted activity are h3 and eccleston. H3 lifts it up when eccle is under the gun. Just some food for thought. H3 plays the game all random. And then when we in pivotal time, starts to post seriously. His play over day 4 is very different to play days 1 to 3. The difference.. He had an objective to clear eccleston. Hmmm will have to make a call on what this means. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
I Have reread day1 with the hindsight of all the flips. Before posting my conclusion I would like to know where I stand with you. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 10 2013 19:43 Baker1986 wrote: actually fuck it. I'm good at about 3 things in this game. Day 1 reads, convincing people, and not getting lynched as town. So let's try to lynch me tomorrow, that will provide us with a useful day. Why are you going so defensive? Instead of trying to defend yaself; how about letting us know who the final two scum are. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 10 2013 21:01 Baker1986 wrote: Looks like I don't know, right? I know I'm not lynching you or mccoy. Awesome, this ties spectacularly into my conclusion I want to unveil - once McCoy responds. Im so excited now  "So why are you going so defensive?" - What are you worried about? | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 10 2013 21:29 SMcCoy wrote: + Show Spoiler + I have some unconcluded stuff written up about d1, but no time to finish it atm. But h3 suspects as alternative to the drt lynch and baker's list are important points of it, that likely point to troughton being scum, and possibly eccleston. You can post your stuff later if you want to hear my version in detail first though, id be glad to provide it once i have more time. OK. If I read between the lines, I surmise that you trust me. Excellent. This means we have ~12hrs to work together constructively. I will say prematurely that I agree with you on PT. As per your request: I will let you know my first choice after you post your stuff. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 10 2013 21:41 SMcCoy wrote: Could also be troughton and baker need to check their interactions On the money! As in that is my conclusion. Hence, the problem. I believe I will be shot, so Eccleston is left with you and H3. It will be up to H3 to convince Eccleston to *not* vote you; as he will be the swing vote. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
As for a double push on me. (1) H3 knows I'm town. (2) Baker cant push me - Without giving himself up.On June 10 2013 21:01 Baker1986 wrote: I know I'm not lynching [TheDavison] or mccoy. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 10 2013 23:25 Baker1986 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2013 21:03 TheDavison wrote: Awesome, this ties spectacularly into my conclusion I want to unveil - once McCoy responds. Im so excited now "So why are you going so defensive?" - What are you worried about? I don't see where I'm defensive. Explain where I was defensive? On June 10 2013 19:43 Baker1986 wrote: actually fuck it. I'm good at about 3 things in this game. Day 1 reads, convincing people, and not getting lynched as town. So let's try to lynch me tomorrow, that will provide us with a useful day. No one had directly questioned you - other than me making a rhetorical nostradamus comment. This was both a pre-emptive strike and passive aggressive threat. There was absolutely zero requirement for that post. Broken down the post highlights two points. (1) Pre-Emptive Strike = Reminder of your strengths and reinforces "you are town" (2) Passive Aggressive Threat = The last bit... worded so people do the "exact opposite" as it is sarcastic in nature. This post given the thread sentiment of how the lynch went down is actually indicative of a defensive mindset. And the only reason to be defensive at this stage of the game - when not being challenged - is inherent.. scummy.. guilt. As an aside, you are a smart guy. Its actually hilarious, because all this time I have said if SMcCoy didnt have an awesome Day1, he would pass off as the scum who slowly gets bored and stops contributing. However, all this time, it has been you playing that role. And subtle gems like this: On May 31 2013 19:12 Baker1986 wrote: Most importantly, do you think McCoy and I are town? I respect this for Day1 scum play. On first glance: it looks like a bog-standard alignment question. However, this has many subtle undertones. Essentially you are mentally prepping this person (TomB4) to call you town, by association of a town read on McCoy. For an example of how a suspicious town asks about alignment, we revert to: On May 29 2013 17:51 MSmith1 wrote: Your turn. What alignment is A McGann and what alignment am I? The difference may seem minute, but here, MSmith1 treats the equation of two alignments as independent. You on the other hand, have too much confidence that McCoy is town. Yes, thread sentiment strongly suggested he was town, but without a Dr.T flip; there was no way to know for certain unless you had knowledge of his alignment. And henceforth, the subtlety in the quote is exposed. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
I was prob a bit aggressive there. Its basically LYLO after this NK, so I need to be open to all possibilities. Let me know who you think is final team. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:15 Baker1986 wrote: I'll respond to the rest later, but the reason I brought up the "three things I know I can do" thing was not to say I'm bad at everything else, it was to explain why it might prove productive if people try to lynch me tomorrow, because this forces the people trying to lynch me to come up with reasons for the lynch, and I'm stubborn enough to take the heat. So that might help us weed out who is wrong for the wrong reasons and who is wrong for the right reasons. Yeah.. i dunno... im struggling with you. because, your last post felt really genuine to me. And my gut reads on those types of posts have actually been right. I said for a while hartnell was town based on his bluntness. Its my analysis that has been completely wrong. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:14 SMcCoy wrote: Im not against Eccleston being discussed.+ Show Spoiler + I'm finding quite some points that speak for Eccleston being scum, but that means that his teammate must have bussed him at some point, or still is. Happening after this votecount: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 21:31 Oatsmaster wrote: WHOS THERE? SMcCoy (0): TheDavison (0): DrTennant (3): SMcCoy, Baker1986, MSmith1. Hurndall3 (1): PTroughton2. DrTennant is set to be lynched. Votes without ## will not be counted Eccleston's comeback: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 21:38 Eccleston wrote: Sorry for my absence. Have been busy. Baker, I like your post about DrTennants read being shit, however, I am curious as to why you agree with MSmith1's read on me, because I think what he brings up is trash. Is your thought process similar to Smith's or do you agree with his read but not with his reasoning? Regarding DrTennant: McCoy's case on DrTennant isn't conclusive, but I think there's a fair chance of DrTennant being scum. The inconsistent suspicion toward ambiguous opinions and his defensive reactions could be scum indicators. I feel that point one would be a null tell if it wasn't for his strange justification about not being suspicious of me. It would be understandable if he said something like "Eccleston was asked to provide his opinion, but you were not." or that my post seemed less serious, but his "Yes eccelstone did have what could be interpreted as a wishy washy post but right before that he essential through out a town read for no reason. To me your post was devoid of actual content." sounds more like an after-the-fact justification (and a very bad one at that), especially since he said before that that my aggression was likely more of a town tell than a scum tell. Why didn't he touch on that again if that was what he thought? His recent posts about Baker being scummy and about thriving in the spotlight leave much to be desired. It's mostly rhetoric with little of essence. @DrTennant You said that you thrive in the spotlight and it helped you make reads, but you've yet to share them with us. Do you think that all the mafia players are lurking? What I find curious about Eccleston's post is his question to DrT. He mentions that he had Baker as scumread, but then he asks him if he thinks that all the mafia players are lurking and that he has to share reads. This question might just be show after all. On May 31 2013 03:05 Eccleston wrote: I think lynching PT2 at this time would be unwise. He's made one post and thrown a vote on Hurndall3 for being "brief and blunt", and suddenly, ten hours later, he's a prime suspect? I think you're stretching it when you say that At the time of his post the thread was about three and a half pages long. It doesn't really take much effort to read that and then write a five paragraph RP post and throw a vote on someone. He could just as well be disinterested townie. I could understand it if you were pushing him as a policy lynch because you're not certain about DrT, but how he is "far from null" is beyond me. He has made one (half serious) post in the entire game. Has he been useless? Yes. Does that make him scum? No. On May 31 2013 03:40 Eccleston wrote: On second thought, I do find it quite strange that PT2 even bothered writing his mini case on Hurndall. If he is mafia trying to just skate by without doing anything, why make this stupid post instead of sheeping McCoy? I can think of two reasons: 1. DrT is mafia and PT2 doesn't want to add any more pressure on him. 2. DrT is town and PT2 doesn't want to be held accountable if he is to be lynched. I can't see any pro-town motivation behind his post though... Maybe he doesn't find DrT scummy, but can't be bothered to voice his opinion? Because it's hard to believe that he really is that convinced on Hurndall... The guy had posted about 300 words at that time. For example his backpedaling on the PT defense looks scummy if PT is scum. Eccleston might have been scared of the consequences of his defense for later, and wrote this post to look like he was in doubt about PT. What do you guys think about this This is essentially MSmith1 argument re-raised? This is a tough one as everytime I read Day1, Eccleston sticks out like a sore thumb to me. One thing I noted in my read today was: On May 30 2013 10:08 DrTennant wrote: Of the "active" posters the ones that concern me the most are eccleston and baker. Eccelston despite being active early seems to have just decided to fuck off while i been in the spotlight despite his hig activity early. He hasn't given an opinion on anything that has happened despite showing he was active early on. Baker it appears from my perspective has just decided to sheep who i think is the towniest guy in mccoy and who might have the largest thread control. Baker never gave reasoning he just called mccoy smart and it looks like he is just trying to latch on to an early wagon. What stands out is: With Eccleston, Dr.T just summarises the thread sentiment opinion With Baker, Dr.T creates a new argument to attract attention. Everytime I want to consider Eccleston though, I kept coming back to H3 and the heuristic about the 'Ver Guide". This is then compounded because even though I can not put my finger on it, Im liking the sincerity from Baker. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:33 Baker1986 wrote: Yeah, should probably just lynch according to this list. Hillarious actually. I read this today and at the time.. Eccle + H3 was my team, and I was like WTF! The only thing that made me get off that thought process, was again the "Ver" guide. I think MSmith1 analysis of Eccle is pretty fucking good. Eccle waited a long time before deciding between Trout and Dr.T. That we know Dr.T was a goon, it suggests Eccle was hesitant to bus. - Which is normal. H3 was also always in agreement with Dr.T and voted accordingly. I think the only reason H3 could gain thread presence during Day3, was because all of the town fucked off. Either way, I like where this is going. Good work guys. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
PT2 Role Play voting H3, gave H3 a perfect opportunity to create a counter-wagon for Dr.T. H3 has also consistently maintained Eccle as a town read (except once, where he votes him citing "survival'). H3 was constantly trying to derail the Dr.T lynch by three different methods. (1) Blatantly support Counter-Wagon (Trout) + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2013 00:06 Hurndall3 wrote: the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful ##vote ptroughton On June 07 2013 00:42 TheDavison wrote: H3 The candidates for this lynch are: TomB4, Eccleston and Hurndall3. You need to step up; because that vote on PT earlier was a load of bullocks. Are you going to vote Tom or not. On June 07 2013 01:37 Hurndall3 wrote: I dont like any of those lynches though! Haven't looked into Tom real close but his activity looks pretty town just from glancing at it. Why not PT ;_; (2) Denigrate the SMcCoy case (Keeps asking for it to be simpler) + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 12:58 Hurndall3 wrote: also I still want someone to explain SIMPLY the case on DrTennant that everyone is sheeping. On May 30 2013 06:54 Hurndall3 wrote: um ok SMcCoy I tried to read your last post several times. Maybe my attention span is bad but half way through (between megacases 1 and 2) I kept getting so bored that I lot my concentration and had to start over. I still have no idea what you are trying to say but the gist I got was it was COMPLETELY INCONCLUSIVE lol. It's all analysis and no insight. On May 30 2013 09:42 Hurndall3 wrote: can smcc's analysis be summarized for simpletons such as myself or can the complexity of the argument not be condensed? (3) Rebuts points on behalf of Dr.T + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 14:15 Hurndall3 wrote: 1 "uscumbro?" is null possibly leaning town. I know you don't like it because of how it effectively accomplishes nothing, but town does it all the time. 2 people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum. DrTennant is not a scumread and I think there are already a bunch of better lynch candidates out there: Eccleston PTroughton2 JPertwee Actually rereading all those filters I am gonna unvote TheDavison. His response to my OMGUS looks marginally genuine: ##unvote JPertwee might be a too scummy to be scum scenario. He is overly agreeable, wishy washy, and constantly asking people to expand on things they've said rather than contribute his own original thought. Then there is the over compensated vote on Dr.T where he backpedals on "overdefense" On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote: ##unvote ##vote DrT k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly. these are the points that convinced me to sheep. 1 DrT's overdefense 2 unnatural calmness 3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives 4 one dimensional scumreads This guy and Eccleston has to go. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 01:05 SMcCoy wrote: But H3 mentioned Eccleston as suspect after defending DrT. How are they compatible. Distancing. I just read Hurndall 7 page filter. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413713&user=Hurndall3 Early game Eccle is a scummer. Then midgame Eccle instantly becomes a mislynchf or him. Endgame he is constantly hard fending Eccleston as a strong town read. The below is every post in H3 filter that has the word "Ecc" in it. + Show Spoiler [H3 on Ecc] + On May 30 2013 14:15 Hurndall3 wrote: Lists Eccleston as a lynch candidate (a s per thread sentiment).1 "uscumbro?" is null possibly leaning town. I know you don't like it because of how it effectively accomplishes nothing, but town does it all the time. 2 people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum. DrTennant is not a scumread and I think there are already a bunch of better lynch candidates out there: Eccleston PTroughton2 JPertwee Actually rereading all those filters I am gonna unvote TheDavison. His response to my OMGUS looks marginally genuine: ##unvote JPertwee might be a too scummy to be scum scenario. He is overly agreeable, wishy washy, and constantly asking people to expand on things they've said rather than contribute his own original thought. On June 03 2013 07:53 Hurndall3 wrote: ya ecc or td id lynch either of those On June 04 2013 21:23 A McGann wrote: Who do you want to lynch tomorrow and at least give a paragraph outlining why. On June 04 2013 21:32 Hurndall3 wrote: This is gonna take some time that I don't have right now. I have to read the filters of TD, Ecc, HW, pf?(I may be forgetting someone else I found scummy) first. I will do this for d3 though. On June 07 2013 00:42 TheDavison wrote: H3 The candidates for this lynch are: TomB4, Eccleston and Hurndall3. You need to step up; because that vote on PT earlier was a load of bullocks. Are you going to vote Tom or not. On June 07 2013 01:37 Hurndall3 wrote: Literally he goes from considering him scum, to not being willing to vote him in this post!I dont like any of those lynches though! Haven't looked into Tom real close but his activity looks pretty town just from glancing at it. Why not PT ;_; On June 07 2013 04:30 Hurndall3 wrote: other scumread is HW. there is a very scummy connection between the two. Neither ever tries to figure out if the other is scum. They both push Ecc, TD mislynches. On June 07 2013 05:44 Hurndall3 wrote: k i have to go so this is a survival vote ##vote ecc On June 07 2013 06:08 Hurndall3 wrote: i agree ecc is a mislynch but wtf do you want me to do On June 07 2013 11:27 HartnellWill wrote: Now can we pls pls pls pls pls lynch eccleston day 4? On June 07 2013 12:23 Hurndall3 wrote: no! On June 08 2013 08:29 Hurndall3 wrote: Now he is starting to hard defend Eccleston.k I've been reading and rereading eccs filter and I think he's town. his early game record looks really scummy (shown by msmiths analysis.). In fact it looks so bad that scum would probably be more careful about how they were treating DrT, since all the powertowns were on drts wagon and it was pretty obvious he was going to be lynched. this is a tooscummytobescum argument but that doesn't mean its wrong. secondly there is this quote: I really can't imagine writing this as scum. And I don't mean the thought is particularly pro town. It's just that scum doesn't have thoughts like this. On June 08 2013 09:44 Hurndall3 wrote: @smcc look at my most recent post on ecc There are things he says that look VERY town, even if his play isn't very pro-town. MSmith's vote analysis makes Ecc look very bad, but there's one problem with MSmith's argument: It assumes that PT is town. If PT is scum along with DrT, then suddenly his entire analysis is irrelevant. On June 08 2013 09:56 Hurndall3 wrote: If Ecc is town, and TomB4 is town, then why would mafia give a fuck what wagon they were on yesterday? On June 08 2013 10:22 Hurndall3 wrote: TD I am not done reading filters but I'm really sure Ecc is *EBWOP NOT* scum. Please keep an open mind to my upcoming posts. Also realize this: a town Ecc was demotivated as fuck and very disconnected from the game. So disconnected that he didn't realize Smcc is obv town like we do. I think it was simply a case of activity without intellect behind it. On June 08 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: yup mcgann died because he thought Ecc is town. Ecc IS TOWN. Do you think it's a coincidence that PT and HW (both scummy fucks) are now pushing him uber hard in tandem? On June 08 2013 11:52 Hurndall3 wrote: ECC's townstory is consistent and believable. He did not read the game carefully enough to comprehend SmCC's towncred. Can't you see how someone saying "bad town is pissing me off I want them to die" can be construed as scummy? Because it looks like he wants to lynch people for being bad instead of being scum. Here is a question: Why would scum push SMcCoy at that time? Really there is no reason. there were plenty of other scummy townies (myself included) that would be better choices. On June 09 2013 01:48 Hurndall3 wrote: Here he defends Eccleston by taking arguments out of context (a constant theme of H3 throughout this game)TD you are tunneled on Ecc right now. It happens to all of us. You need to step back and realize that your case against Ecc isn't good. The logic is not conclusive. Let's look at exhibit B: I would characterize his response as quite aggressive actually. it doesn't look like how scum would talk to each other. @td you are suffering from confirmation bias pure and simple. You are looking at all these little things that don't cohere into a bigger picture. You are seeing signs where there aren't any. On June 09 2013 02:08 Hurndall3 wrote: Dude I'm sorry if I'm sounding condescending but it's just I think all your arguments for Ecc are bad. I've been there dude. Dat tunnel. Dat confirmation bias. 1 Why am I defending Ecc so hard.. well because you are going at him so hard. I am quite sure you are town and I want you on my side. Also Ecc seems like a newer player and he isn't trying or maybe isn't capable of defending himself. Also my townread on ECC is extremely strong. 2 Early game aggression is leaning town MAYBE for some people but I would be more comfortable saying it's alignment neutral. It's somewhat harder for scum because they have to find something that they can misconstrue as scummy. On June 09 2013 02:13 Hurndall3 wrote: i do like your point about hw/pt scumteam or ecc/me scumteam though. Ask yourself, do I really seem scummy? Also ask yourself, is it possible ecc is just newish town? On June 09 2013 02:19 Hurndall3 wrote: Sorry for the quadruple post. This is another one in response to TD. i mean Ecc read the Ver guide on how to play town for fuck sakes. I'm really sorry if im being disrespectful to you. it's just that I feel very strongly about the wrongness of your arguments. I have been refuting point by point. I have been saying WHY I think they are not conclusive. Please, I welcome you to present your most damming arguments, and I will say why I disagree one by one. As far as I'm concerned, the Ecc comments are dont have conviction behind them for pushing a lynch. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 01:05 SMcCoy wrote: But H3 mentioned Eccleston as suspect after defending DrT. How are they compatible. To address your actual question. Regarding the post in question ("uscumbro") H3 defends Dr.T and then lists 3 scum reads, including Eccleston with no expansion of thought. This is simply distancing, as H3 did not seriously (or casually) push Eccleston as a lynch candidate at any point in the game. The simplest solution is that Eccleston was listed as the majority of the thread were suspicious of him. This allowed H3 to blend in, and cast suspicion on others. In the end he pushes JP, and leaves the door open for an OMGUS on Trout. There is certainly compatibility available. Just remember, that H3 lifted his activity once I built cases on both H3 + Eccleston. I treated H3 as town for two reasons. (1) He was one of the only people posting, and with so many lurkers, I felt scum had no reason to contribute (2) You kept calling H3 town, which made me doubt my case (as I was outnumbered on feedback 2 to 1) | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
H3 dismissed them all calling them "trash logic".... just like he did with Dr.T. + Show Spoiler [H3] + On June 04 2013 16:35 TheDavison wrote: *snip* + Show Spoiler [In Action] + If we examine the final votes for both Days. On June 01 2013 11:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Day 1 SMcCoy (0): TheDavison (0): DrTennant (8): SMcCoy, Baker1986, MSmith1, HartnellWil, A McGann, Eccleston, Hurndall3, TomB4 Hurndall3 (1): PTroughton2, PTroughton2 (2): TomB4 (1): TheDavison On June 04 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Day2 jpertwee (7): baker1986, smccoy, msmith1, tomb4, a mcgann, thedavison (1): eccleston (2): hartnellwill, jpertwee hartnellwill (0): tomb4 (1): Someone who stands out to me as a contender to satisfy that dichotomy is: Hurndall3. On Day1, VCA indicates he has thrown his vote around randomly seeing where it sticks. In fact the vote justifications below are sycophantic at best and outright scummy at worst. Pay particular attention to the over compensation with his Dr.T sheep vote//bus. + Show Spoiler [H3 justifications] + On May 29 2013 23:01 Hurndall3 wrote: yup mccoys post is scummy as fuck. until he makes himself seem more town: ##vote smccoy On May 30 2013 03:17 Hurndall3 wrote: ok ##vote thedavison pretty self explanatory imo. This is his first post! On May 31 2013 00:06 Hurndall3 wrote: the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful ##vote ptroughton On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote: ##unvote ##vote DrT k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly. these are the points that convinced me to sheep. 1 DrT's overdefense 2 unnatural calmness 3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives 4 one dimensional scumreads On June 03 2013 05:09 Hurndall3 wrote: ##vote td jp is looking town from that last post. going with the alternate wagon. Besides I thought td looked scummy from his first post. On June 04 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: fuck I guess my vote is really outdated. ##unvote ##vote JP NOT THAT IT MATTERS Compare this to "TomB4" who was in the final two to seal Dr.T fate. On June 01 2013 07:36 TomB4 wrote: I'd rather feel dumb than correct, since I am the minority in this case. It's better for us if I'm wrong. ##unvote ##vote DrTennant There is a stark contrast in confidence in the sheep vote. H3; who never explained any of his D1 votes in gross detail, suddenly feels the need to provide a summary account when it comes to Dr.T. His Day1 performance sequence is repeated in full force on Day2, when he votes for Davison citing "JP looks town", before seizing an opportunity and rescinding back to JP - with no explanation. If i haphazard a guess, I would say with confidence: His actions with JP are a scum slip. (i.e. jumped into the thread without reading, and realised the error in judgement and recanted) Let me repeat it for you: On June 03 2013 05:09 Hurndall3 wrote: ##vote td jp is looking town from that last post. going with the alternate wagon. Besides I thought td looked scummy from his first post. On June 04 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: fuck I guess my vote is really outdated. ##unvote ##vote JP NOT THAT IT MATTERS Please remember thread sentiment: barely anyone thought JP was town; or even if they had a "gut feeling". JP filter did NOT do not much to help them present a counter case. However, H3 suddenly knows it all. It doesnt matter that 1 day elapsed between the H3 backpedal. He backed the horse (JP) when no one else did (I would bet due to knowledge we dont have)... and when the opportunity came he took it and provided ZERO justification. Just like all his other votes except Dr.T. SMcCoy has already touched on some odd interactions with H3 and other(s) in the thread. + Show Spoiler [The Outcome] + Guys, I am suggesting that regardless of who dies this cycle: please push forward and secure the lynch of H3. (1) His voting of Dr.T is suspect (2) His voting of JP is suspect (3) His behaviour fits the pattern of scum who has blended into the "not a current thread" zone, thus satisfies the requirements of enabling the "withhold KP" ability. (4) Has suspect behaviour with other participants. Please discuss this. I think this person I speak of in "The Outcome" satisifies all the criteria I have been looking for. i.e. Over Compensated votes on scum. Low details when voting town. & satisfies my "withhold kp" musings in the spoilers above. Let me know your thoughts. If you think I am wrong. Point it out! Construction discussion can only help lead us in the right direction! + Show Spoiler [Ecc1] + On June 08 2013 10:18 TheDavison wrote: Actually. i beg to differ, but will present something different. I am cleaning the house currently, and was thinking about the game and was musing in my head: why would Eccleston try and get a SMcCoy lynch? Anyone who read the game will know SMcCoy is town for two highly specific reasons from Day1. (1) The back and forth with Dr.T is genuine and could not be faked. They were playing cat n mouse, and SMcCoy won. and more importantly (2) MSmith1, (who is confirmed town) kept saying he completely agreed with the points SMcCoy was raising. i.e. MSmcCoy is thinking EXAXTLY like a well-reasoned townie should. Regardless of lowering presence since Night 1, SMcCoy is town. Eccleston 2.0 said he read the game, this should be abundantly clear. Yet when SMcCoy has a badly-timed vent; who tries to pounce on the opportunity? Eccleston 2.0 who has done nothing since coming in. This can only come from scum agenda. I actually believe Eccleston when he said he was demotived.. he came into a game and was a lynch candidate for things he didnt do. However, contrast this with my behaviour. I came into the game as a lynch candidate, and knowing I am town, I had the confidence to immediately rebut the cases put forth against me. Eccleston on the other hand, is demotivated as the points are valid. I start sticking up for him, and suddenly he has the confidence to push scum agenda (i.e. lynch SMcCoy). Yet did not rebut any of the cases against him as promised. This is pretty damn scummy. So in short, I could not reconcile why a townie would try and push for a SMcCoy lynch. Just cos the guy had a badly timed vent, does not make him scum. I think this action was a scum slip from Eccleston. I also coultn reconcile his "demotivated" post. Because it was written in a way that was very hard to weird (i.e. the paragraphs was all in one block). I think this was a specific tactic by Eccleston to hide behind. I dont think he lied about being demotivated (because replacing in, when votes are cast on you is demotivating for both town and scum). Come Day4, I am voting for Eccleston. Will figure out last scum after Eccleston is eliminated. + Show Spoiler [Ecc2] + On June 08 2013 16:52 TheDavison wrote: Started doing my re-read. From the first page I already know who to vote for. + Show Spoiler + ##Vote: Eccleston Ecclestons scummy openers have been done to death but I will outline my issues anyway. This is just so damn aggressive, especially for a first post. I have been assuming that he acted like this because MSmith1 RNG'd him as scum. But when I think about it, as town you are confident.. you know you can prove yourself town. Therefore when name calling like that happens, you just brush it off. The only reason I think a townie would write that post, is if they are trying to alpha-male the town leadership. However, clearly Eccleston never aspired that far. Outcome: Leaning Scum Another weird response. Since when is discussing lynching policies conducive to scum hunting? Everyone that plays mafia beyond the newbies, understands that policy discussion is what scum *LOVE* to keep town focused on. They are guilt-free lynches, and you dont have to create fake cases. I don't think this post by itself is scummy; but it is very weird. Because he raises issues, but doesn't provide solutions. He could have easily said "lynching policy.. .how about this" (which A.McGann actually asks in the next post) Outcome: Very slightly leaning scum Trivial Point, but he was aware of KP delay function instantly. Now, some people read the OP, others dont (including me). So i won't call him scum for knowing the scum specifics of play. But, if he is town and knows this.. why not create discussion around it? Especially because he called out others for not being constructive. Instead, he makes a blunt comment I dont understand.. "it will not affect lynching until end game".. and then tries to segue this into a useless a comment about A.McGann which says nothing AND MSmith1 where he avoids calling him town or scum (uses the words. villager/italian). Note, he was actually asked to share his thoughts on alignment. "Friendly" is not indicative of town or scum... Outcome: Null on its own, Very slightly leaning scum with the other points. Now, heres the pearler. And somehow, I dont understand how we all missed it. (Apologies if someone has raised it, I genuinely dont recall) Now: We all know Dr.T got lynched for this post. i.e. "Why so wishy washy? You scum?" We also know Dr.T was scum... so the question I asked myself was. Consider: early game, the objectives of scum are the same as town. (1) Establish your innocence (2) Blend in OR Assume town leadership It is ONLY after this phase that you start looking for "bad town" to setup as "scum". In his first post, Dr.T forgoes establishing innocence and throws out the artillery straight away. Not only aggressively attacking SMcCoy, but labelling him the "S" word (uscumbro). This is a big deal; as the post was not conducive to establishing the innocence of Dr.T, nor did it allow him to blend in. Secondly, the post was laced with too much aggression to try and establish a town leadership position. The key to Dr.Ts motives SMcCoy was confessing his confusion with Eccleston. i.e. He doesnt expect scum to be in the limelight early Day1.. yet everything Eccleston is doing doesnt add up as town. Its actually not wishy-washy at all. The reason Dr.T made an aggressive attack on SMcCoy as his first post To fling shit at SMcCoy and lower his credibility because he was suspicious of Eccleston. Its that simple. He was protecting a scum buddy. And decided to forgo establishing his innocence, which led to his demise. ##Vote: Eccleston + Show Spoiler [Ecc3] + On June 08 2013 19:52 TheDavison wrote: Disagree. As follows: + Show Spoiler [Motive] + Early game aggression may *NOT* alignment indicative during early game. However, as people are removed from the game, and alignments elucidated; early game aggression *does* become alignment indicative. Because you can start to figure out motive. As I pointed out in my case: scum have a typical modus operandi when the game starts. Blend in via establishing towniness, and then allow the bad townies to get lynched. This is the safe play that almost every game of mafia follows. Occasionally scum will try to assert themselves for town leaderships, which still requires them to establish towniess regardless. + Show Spoiler [Dr.T "Dirty Hands"] + Now Hurndall3, if what you say is true and Dr.T found "town wishy-washiness" with SMcCoy I am confident he would not have tried to ostracize SMcCoy so vehemently. Scum want to suggest "bad points" so others pick up the torch and do the pushing. i.e. Scum don't want to get their hands dirty and become accountable in any game of mafia But this did not happen.What we found this game is that Dr.T not only got his hands dirty, but he also became immediately defensive. We all know how this panned out: he was lynched. Because its so important, I shall repeat it one more time. He could merely have pointed out an observation - which satisfies scum objectives so much more efficiently. It sows doubt, establishes that he cares -> towniness, and keeps his hands clean. A perfect trifecta. H3, even you noted Eccleston early game play as follows: I think Dr.T noticed this as well, and felt the need to provide "cover fire" for Eccleston, hence the breakaway from scum safe play. This actually then becomes a very good reason for why he became immediately defensive. (In his mind, its like.. WTF!! i just tried to divert attention from you, and now I am the prime suspect...) Hurndall3, what I want to know are two simple things. (1) Why do you feel compelled to answer on behalf of Eccleston constantly? Your last 2 pages of filter are regurgitating "Eccle is town", and not producing cases for scum. (2) Why is early game aggression indicative of "leaning town". | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
Explains why Dr.T came in so hard. Explains why H3 was trying to actively derail the Dr.T lynch Explains why H3 came in so hard to derail any Eccleston lynch | ||
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