|
Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner.
The possibility had already been brought up. what yamato77 specifically is referencing is that my "scumslip" actually has TWO assumptions made in it, not just ONE. Assumption 1) there are 3 scum. Assumption 2) it's impossible that there is a scum masoner. I can tell you why I forgot about the possibility of a scum masoner: I haven't ever seen it as a role in a normal mini game.
|
Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:31 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Basically, I came into night 1 with 3 big townreads: DP, Marv, and (to an extent) Iamp. I decided I needed to mason someone who A) is almost certainly town and B) I can work well with. A) is because I want it to be clear I was in fact a masoner. B) is so that, well, I'm using my skill in a worthwhile way. I decided that since the Iamp read is based on meta, and DP and I rarely interact well, I'd be best off going with Marv. Admittedly there was a risk to it since Marv and I have clashed once or twice recently (LXI), but Marv likes winning games of mafia more than he likes fighting with me, so I figured it was my best bet. Why do you think Marv is so townie? I do not share that opinion, necessarily.
Well, really it comes from two things.
The first is that Marv decided to pick a fight with me very early D1. Although I ended up having an inactive and unhelpful D1, I am notorious for being very aggressive, tunnelley, etc during my D1s. I've definitely gotten into shitfests with scum and brought them down, and also pulled off last-minute voteswitches (several times!) against scum to catch them. When I'm having an "on" game, if you'll pardon my pride, I fuckin rock at mafia. I don't think scum Marv would go after me D1 just because of the chance I figure out he's scum, turn it around on him and bury him. Now, of course just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible, but I give Marv credit for going after me.
The second is Marv's push against ST. Now, you might say "ST was a lurker who flipped town, how is this a towntell for Marv?" Well, basically ST was going to be lynched sooner or later. If I were scum I'd probably try to not lynch him for as long as possible, or wait until I needed lynchbait and gone after him. If he's alive at LYLO that's optimal. Scum has no reason to try to get this lynchable player lynched D1. Now, this isn't a sure fire thing, but with point 1 I think it's pretty convincing.
|
On May 20 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner. How likely is it that a scum masoner has the presence of mind to omit the existence if his own role when considering how to make himself confirmed town to the thread? If he did this, he's better at scum than I thought.
It's something I would do when fake claiming.
|
Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Like, I guess what I'm saying is that even though ST flipped town, his lynch was still the right call from a town perspective D1. He was a liability; he had to go. The only thing IMO that detracts from point 2 is if GK turns out to be scum later on, in which case, yes, I could see a scum Marv doing it-- there is a scum motive for the actions. That being said, GK is unflipped so it is not yet time to draw associative tells. He could well be town.
|
Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:39 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote:On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner. How likely is it that a scum masoner has the presence of mind to omit the existence if his own role when considering how to make himself confirmed town to the thread? If he did this, he's better at scum than I thought. It's something I would do when fake claiming.
I certainly would like to think that were I scum and scumslipping, I'd scumslip in a way that was calculated to also have a townslip in it. I'm glad you think so highly of me and yourself, DP. But EVEN IF I'm a canny enough player to think of something like that, it's still an unusual thing to have in a scumslip. This is a mitigating factor.
|
11589 Posts
I guess that's reasonable enough. I disagree with your reasoning, but I'm not pushing for a Marv lynch any time soon so that doesn't really matter.
Talk to me about GK. Any updated thoughts on him?
|
Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Like, DP, it's okay to admit that something is evidence against your case on me. It's not like literally everything I do is going to look scummy, even as scum. I definitely think your case against me has strong points, and I admit that, but at the same time it's wrong. If you feel like you need to automatically say everything I do/say is scummy, I get it, you're trying to push a wagon, but at least in your mind (if not in the thread) weigh what I'm saying here and consider how sure you are that I am scum.
|
Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:42 yamato77 wrote:
I guess that's reasonable enough. I disagree with your reasoning, but I'm not pushing for a Marv lynch any time soon so that doesn't really matter.
Talk to me about GK. Any updated thoughts on him?
Honestly I've been entirely tied up with defending myself since the "scumslip" and haven't done the actual filter-diving that I promised beforehand. I'll get right on it.
|
11589 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:39 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote:On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner. How likely is it that a scum masoner has the presence of mind to omit the existence if his own role when considering how to make himself confirmed town to the thread? If he did this, he's better at scum than I thought. It's something I would do when fake claiming.
But that begs the question, if he's that precise, why is he also scumslipping in the same post? Don't those ideas seem mutually exclusive?
|
11589 Posts
DP, you can play this game, too. Talk to me about a scum read of yours that's not BH. Even if you're right and he's scum, he has 2 teammates.
|
Why do everyone seem to assume they have to mason a townread of theirs? If i was a mason i would definitely mason a scumread or null.
|
On May 20 2013 17:44 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:39 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote:On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner. How likely is it that a scum masoner has the presence of mind to omit the existence if his own role when considering how to make himself confirmed town to the thread? If he did this, he's better at scum than I thought. It's something I would do when fake claiming. But that begs the question, if he's that precise, why is he also scumslipping in the same post? Don't those ideas seem mutually exclusive?
Have you ever scum slipped? I have. and it is not the big things that you slip on. It's stupid little pieces of extra knowledge that you shouldn't have but you end up taking for granted that you do have. It's not the big things you are careful not to reveal. (like the existence of a mafia mason etc.) But tiny little details that you don;t have at the forefront of your mind.
As an example here are my two biggest scumslips of all time.
On October 12 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Scum were sure they could get me lynched if they didn't withhold their KP. As in, if someone claims getting shot, then their play was to lynch me I think. That's the only way I can make sense of still being alive.
Did I already tell you guys I suspect the "Detective" role is the scum roleblocker? The only way I can see scum missing both KP is if there was a 3rd medic and/or they tried to shoot into BC again and he is 3rd party.
The first one I let slip the Scum KP total whilst talking about something else entirely. The amount of KP was not common knowledge but I had been working with that knowledge as agiven for so long that I didn't think about hiding it.
On March 18 2013 10:32 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 10:24 marvellosity wrote:On March 18 2013 10:23 DarthPunk wrote:On March 18 2013 10:18 marvellosity wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 DarthPunk wrote:On March 18 2013 10:12 marvellosity wrote:
actually the most inresting thing about that comment from DP is that he's basically accepting Hiro is town. hmm. Yep because as YOU YOURSELF stated there is no reason for scum hiro to fake claim at that point in time and it also didn;t read like a mafia claim because it wasn't polished at all and looks kind of bad. Mafia claims are going to be spot on really well crafted things. This wasn't therefore we should kill vivax. there are a bunch of players who are likely frame targets. crossfire, stutters, sloosh, DP, Vivax, risk, prplhz and you're arguing there's a high likelihood vivax gets framed? no, with that many players who are lynchable, the chances are very very low that vivax gets framed. possible, but maybe 15% Not worth the risk at LYLO. But you won't listen to me. IT'S NOT WORTH THE RISK OF LYNCHING A REDCHECK AT LYLO am i hearing this right?!?!?!?!?!? It's not worth lynching a red check with a confirmed framer in the game when that check is the most likely to have been framed. I don't want to risk the entire game on it. also I am pretty sure you are scum and Vivax is town and the fact you are pushing it so hard makes me even more sure that lynching you is the best option. But you are not going to agree with me because you are scum so I am going to disengage with you once again so you can't crap all over the thread like you did with foolishness.
The second slip is saying that there is a confirmed framer in the game as I had a red check on me at that point and I am acting all townie keeping up the facade. The problem is I had been calling marvellosity scum the whole time so by saying there was a confirmed framer due to his red check I was treating marv, someone I was calling scum as confirmed town.
Both slips are of tiny pieces of knowledge that I had taken for granted and were not directly relevant to what I was talking about. Both times I noticed immediately and wanted to explain myself immediately. (like blazinghand actually did) But had the restraint to ignore them and they got swept under the carpet.
Blazinghands slip is in exactly the same situation. He is talking about something else entirely and a piece of extra knowledge that is not directly correlated to what he is saying slips out.
When it comes to slips I know what I am talking about and I hope this example of some of my own slips can give you some insight as to what to look for.
|
On May 20 2013 17:49 yamato77 wrote:
DP, you can play this game, too. Talk to me about a scum read of yours that's not BH. Even if you're right and he's scum, he has 2 teammates.
Dandel if he continues to be passive and useless in direct contrast to his entrance. JJD Barring some vast improvement after the weekend.
To be honest though neither of them are as good a lynch as blazinghand. And both would need to be pressured throughout the next cycle for me to be sure of their alignments.
To be honest, Anyone that isn't You, marv, perfection is fair game to me at this point.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 20 2013 13:29 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 13:24 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 13:22 s0Lstice wrote:On May 20 2013 13:15 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:08 s0Lstice wrote:On May 20 2013 13:07 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:05 s0Lstice wrote:
DP, trying to think through this.
You are saying this slip means BH is a scum masoner? Yep. Why would he then say that he would be confirmed town after X nights when he knows that we are all aware that this is a closed set-up with the possibility of any role in play...even scum masoner? Because scum masoners are rare and he is trying to leverage his role into town cred. Remember his mason claim is all that saved him and most of us were operating under the assumption that he was town mason. Also people say confirmed town all the time for stupid reasons. I choose to view it as meaningless posturing. Yea I get the leverage argument...but I'm saying there is no leverage to be had since we all have discussed the closed set-up. Rare or not, its in play, so the town has to consider it. Like, we already have talked about how the mason claim isn't alignment indicative. I suppose it makes sense though. It also proves BH hasn't been reading the thread. If he had been diving filters, he'd know there aren't just 12 players (and hence 3 scum as per normal), and that assumption would not have arisen. Assuming I'm town, it proves I haven't been reading the thread. If you think it's a legit scumslip, it says nothing about whether or not I'm reading the thread. Yes it does. Scum BH would not have claimed to be confirmed town after 3 nights if he had been reading the thread. We are all factoring in the possibility of a scum mason.
Just catching up on all this now. I disagree with this in particular. Another player on this forum, Toadesstern, is legendary for claiming 'confirmed town' status for his non-alignment indicative power roles and/or pushes. It's something he almost exclusively does as town, so characterising this in particular as a mafia trait seems not correct.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:31 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Basically, I came into night 1 with 3 big townreads: DP, Marv, and (to an extent) Iamp. I decided I needed to mason someone who A) is almost certainly town and B) I can work well with. A) is because I want it to be clear I was in fact a masoner. B) is so that, well, I'm using my skill in a worthwhile way. I decided that since the Iamp read is based on meta, and DP and I rarely interact well, I'd be best off going with Marv. Admittedly there was a risk to it since Marv and I have clashed once or twice recently (LXI), but Marv likes winning games of mafia more than he likes fighting with me, so I figured it was my best bet.
+1, that IS basically my philosophy.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
By the way, I agree that assuming 3 mafia makes no sense as an assumption.
Especially as earlier in the thread I specifically gave 12-4 and 11-4-1 as my assumptions. Like, in black and white like that.
There's very little point in BH defending himself on this, because there isn't really a satisfactory explanation, he just has to try find mafia and that's it.
|
So marv. You think he slipped or not?
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
And yes, scumslips definitely exist.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2013 21:53 Vivax wrote:
I'm currently looking at B and J and they are close to each other, they are basically already in a pair, any idea on how they should move ideally? On May 16 2013 21:58 marvellosity wrote:
What? How does it even matter when people don't know what letter they are? ...... On May 16 2013 21:59 marvellosity wrote:
is that a scumslip? On May 17 2013 06:06 Crossfire99 wrote:
Vivax the Weeping Angel has been lynched!
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 20 2013 19:07 DarthPunk wrote:
So marv. You think he slipped or not?
I think so, but I don't have your legendary decisiveness 
Given BlazingHand has made a 1000 word case on his confirmed town mason partner before, I don't put it past him as town either.
|
On May 20 2013 19:08 marvellosity wrote:I think so, but I don't have your legendary decisiveness Given BlazingHand has made a 1000 word case on his confirmed town mason partner before, I don't put it past him as town either.
LOL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
