[M][N] Les Mafia - Page 138

On May 29 2013 00:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
DP clam down.
Marv what's the point of that? I'm assuming you don't think DP is scum for his vote on solstice.

For the record I find you more likely to be scum than DP as well but I'm not putting you ahead of others atm

On May 29 2013 00:12 marvellosity wrote:


Question: what should scum do if the response of people later in the game is the one you're giving now?

On May 28 2013 10:01 s0Lstice wrote:
WoS-- It can't be a coincidence that just about everyone in this game has wanted to kill GK at some point. This is just a guess, but my gut tells me that he is the SK, and the scum team pegged him early. The best way for them to deal with the SK is to lynch him, for obvious reasons....hence all the heat he has been getting from all sides. From this point onward, the moment scum can get the SK in the noose, they win.

On May 26 2013 06:33 s0Lstice wrote:
With that flip, I really think DP and Marv are scum. I've about had it with the 'I'm town because X said so' argument. Marv and DP have been guilty of this repeatedly. Think of it like this..what is the point of even saying that? We are at a point where everyone needs to be re-evaluating town reads, because nobody is having an easy time finding a place for the scum team to fit on their spreadsheets. Everyone who is town at this should no longer be satisfied with 'Marv is town because iamp and BH said so,' or Marv saying 'I'm town, it's so obvious.' It's not good enough....we are well past the time of free passes. If you want to convince somebody that somebody else, or you, is town, reasoning needs to be provided. These two don't seem to care to provide any.

On May 26 2013 11:44 s0Lstice wrote:
WoS did you read what I wrote? 431 is better for scum than a potential 5-4. Dandel claims sk thus forcing us to lynch scum when we should have lynched sk.

On May 26 2013 12:52 s0Lstice wrote:


...and he would have done the same thing as scum, because he knew Dandel was lying and it was a bad lynch for town.

On May 24 2013 06:26 s0Lstice wrote:
I think we have to lynch him. We have no assurance he won't hit town tomorrow and end the game for us, oddly enough.

It's just like the BH day, where our target was there the entire day and killed all other discussion.

On May 24 2013 06:35 s0Lstice wrote:
Marv you know Dandel better than I do. I'm not certain he can be trusted to do the optimal thing an SK would do in any given situation. I mean if he goes full on troll...it may be better to remove him from the game ASAP.

Gotta think on it.

On May 24 2013 06:35 marvellosity wrote:
[This is blatantly obvious. He shot town last night when he should have been shooting mafia.

On May 24 2013 08:12 s0Lstice wrote:
like wtf were you even doing this game dandel

your lack of caring makes me sad

##vote dandel ion

On May 24 2013 08:17 s0Lstice wrote:


You created the situation where we would want to "comfortably lynch you" all by yourself.

On May 24 2013 08:29 s0Lstice wrote:
Yea, I don't like your style at all, and I'm happy that our best move from here on is to kill you first <3

thanks for asking

On May 24 2013 08:34 s0Lstice wrote:
also I'm kind of wondering if you killed Spicy, looking for the JK

On May 24 2013 08:42 s0Lstice wrote:
You can outright say whatever you want, it's not like anyone is going to contest you.

On May 24 2013 21:55 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK, I get that everyone respects and listens to marv, but I think he's wrong here. Lynching the SK is a bad play.

If we lynch DL then we're crossing our fingers that there's only 3 scum. Otherwise we lose to the NK. Now marv already acknowledged that in his analysis.
Now first off this math is wrong. After nightkills it doesn't go to 4-1-1 or 3-2-1. It goes to 4-2-1 or 3-3-1.

But I don't even think that's what would happen, for 2 reasons:

1. I don't think DL can afford to shoot town and risk it going to 3-3-1. That gives way too much power to mafia and he almost surely can't win. I think he either has to shoot mafia or not shoot @ all

2. Wouldn't mafia shoot @ DL? They don't really differentiate between non-scum. Doesn't it make sense that they shoot @ the guy who has KP and will almost surely not get protection?

And then like marv said, if it's 6-3-1 then we're fine either way. The only issue is that we have to be pretty positive that we're lynching scum today. That's the only way we guarantee that we don't lose the game on this lynch.

On May 24 2013 22:42 s0Lstice wrote:
so lynching scum puts us at either 4-2-1 or 3-3-1 depending on if there are 3 or 4 scum

lynching SK puts us at at either 5-3 or 4-4(game over)

that first line seems better. we are fine at 4-2-1, and 3-3-1 sucks but at least the game isn't over.

On May 25 2013 01:37 s0Lstice wrote:
At least for this lynch, it will break down like this as I see it. We can be reasonably sure on the JK, dunno about the RB right now I guess. With the mod answer though, it doesn't look like the JK's prot for tonight can be blocked anyway.

for 6-3-1:
-lynch scum-->6-2-1-->scum and SK must kill town-->JK blocks SK-->5-2-1
-lynch SK--> 6-3 --> 5-3 after the NK
-mislynch town --> 5-3-1 --> scum kills town, SK must kill town to avoid 4-2-1 --> 4-3-1 if JK alive, 3-3-1 if not

for 5-4-1:
-lynch scum --> 5-3-1 --> scum kills town, SK must kill town to avoid 4-2-1 --> 4-3-1 with JK block on SK
-lynch SK --> 5-4 --> 4-4 after NK and game is over
-mislynch town --> we are fucked

so lynching scum today gives us either 5-2-1 or 4-3-1 for tomorrow. 4-3-1 is a loss for town I think...it would lead to 4-2-1 after the lynch, and then either a 3-2-1 or a 2-2-1 depending on if the JK is still alive. Neither of these can result in a town win. 5-2-1 is a winnable situation for town...we get a free SK lynch, and a 4-2 after the following NK.

lynching SK gives us a flat out 5-3, or a loss. If there are 4 mafia, they are going to be all about lynching the SK right now.

On May 29 2013 00:13 DarthPunk wrote:
I'm about to read through s0lstice's filter. WoS marv CERTAINLY shuts people down as town. read any of our last town games together. He was shutting me down all over the place.


s0lstice the most basic reasons that I want to lynch you are this.

You have flown under the radar, causing me to not have particularly strong feelings about you. This is one of the biggest scum tells for better scum players IMO.

stupid arguments with townies about stupid things. And repeating number analysis too often to the detrement of pushing a scum read. Like if you were town you would be more concerned with lynching your top scum read than postulating ad nauseum about night kills and lylo etc.

Your end game reads are considerably off from mine. Like you want to lynch both grush and marv at lylo or whatever. That is not how i would expect a townie reading the same game as me to feel.

You made a remark calling both marv and I out for being scum and then backflipped when I pointed out that what you were saying was BS, Your read was therefore part of an agenda rather than a genuine insight after reading the thread.

Won't stop talking about marv being scum.

Elimination. You are the scummiest out of who is left.

On May 29 2013 00:31 s0Lstice wrote:


In response--

1) This would be my first scum game, have you considered that? There shouldn't be any correlation to me not inducing strong feelings in you and me being scum. I should be scum to you for doing scummy things. This point makes no sense.

2) There's been many points this game where I've had to re-address scum reads, and a fair number of times where I was speaking from the standpoint of needing a refresh on filters and didn't have any sure idea on who was scum. At least not enough to call anybody out in thread. I talked about the numbers because, to me, it was important to figuring out what the hell Dandel was doing. They are also important to figuring out who the SK should/shouldn't be killing. This is relevant information. Arguing with Marv was a product of me trying to understand, mostly getting it, but screwing up a few key things. Why it devolved into an argument, I'm not really sure. Marv and I are just combustible I guess. The point though is that I got to where I wanted to be in my understanding, and stopped.

3) You said yourself earlier when I called you scum that our reads being different is not an adequate reason to be calling someone scum. Which is it?

4) Calling you scum and retracting it is something I already explained. Short version: I was pissed at you for constantly asserting Marv is town with no reason behind it. At the time of writing that post, it seemed super destructive because I was frustrated at all that has gone wrong, and it struck me as awful that you'd still be giving free passes when town clearly has no fucking idea what is going on. I was also thinking Marv was scum at that point, so it was particularly abrasive.

5) This is a legit point. I'm on the hook to prove why Marv is scum, and I haven't yet. This one can be corrected though when I have the time to write a proper case.

On May 18 2013 13:27 s0Lstice wrote:
It'd be sputnik, and I'd feel ok about it.

What you were saying about Marv and his descent from rage was compelling though. Something caught my eye while reading the whole Marv/Dandel exchange



the apology....as Marv has done this before, I wondered if he ever has apologized for it. If he has done this before but never really showed any sign of guilt, then that is something. I've been digging through personality to see. Need to look at his scum games as well, its a fat wad of meta to get through. Still though, food for thought.

On May 18 2013 14:04 s0Lstice wrote:
All the same...do you know what I would do if I was in Marv's shoes? After all these games, the victories, the early NKs as town, the high win percentage as scum...with that Hapa case floating around out there, and (this is important) people around me itching to lynch me as the game goes on regardless of how I've played because as town I'm so rarely alive late into games..

I might be just fine with artificially tantruming, simply to have something to point to when the inevitable 'why is marv still alive' questions start to pop up.

I'm not saying this is definitely what was going on, but I'm keeping it around to chew on for awhile.

Oh and Marv improves town atmosphere no matter what his alignment is.

On May 19 2013 10:41 s0Lstice wrote:


At the time, I felt there was much more to go on with GK, hence my case. Sputnik had the list, and the purposely evasive RP speak. The VT claim gave me pause though, and it's still kind of mindfucking me. I voted for who I was more sure about

goodkarma

As to your defense, your interpretation of grushs actions is acceptable. With the added explanation, your point on grush holding himself to his own meta in regards to the period of time before he was pressured is a legitimate one. Still stinky though is the timing of the case, and your JarJar lurky post.

I'm catching up while writing this....your posts since then seem pretty town. Enough that I don't want to you kill right now.

marv



You were the topic of conversation at the time. It was an unfinished thought, but I shared it anyway, because it is related to what DP was saying about you, and iamp addressed me directly about it. It means nothing without the meta backing, which, due to my absence, I am not currently fresh on. I stand by saying it though, because its possible that someone who has been closely following your recent games would know off-hand whether you were following a pattern.

____________________________________

Still waiting to hear from Stutters on what he makes of me attacking one of his scum reads.

Vayne, I really haven't thought much of your suspicions of me, because your reasoning is pretty poor, frankly. I'd prefer it though if your time wasn't wasted on suspecting me, so let's open up a dialogue and become besties. I'm not happy with my scumspecs at the moment and that takes priority, but I'll try to alleviate your concerns after some quality filter time.

Now to the filters...as I said though I'll be checking the thread in the interim and I'm here for awhile.

On May 20 2013 11:51 s0Lstice wrote:


This is important if you think Marv is town.

On May 21 2013 09:33 s0Lstice wrote:


I kinda feel like Marv should have had an opinion on whether he was lying or not, if he was fuming about it.

The quote I just posted implies that Marv thinks posts prior to GKs claim are alignment indicative-->so he therefore must think he is lying-->and therefore should really be telling us to lynch the liar for lying.

On May 21 2013 09:54 s0Lstice wrote:
I'm reading Marv as being entirely too petulant right now. I'm getting to his alignment.

On May 21 2013 10:03 s0Lstice wrote:
WoS, since marv is doing the electronic equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'nah nah nah nah can't hear you'...I'll ask you.

Are you following my reasoning here? Making a post painting GK in a bad light that cites posts that come prior to his claim of not reading his role PM requires SOME opinion on whether he checked his role PM. Citing those posts carries with it an assumption that GK was being truthful in his claim.

I'm just not seeing how one could pursue GK without considering it, as it directly affects whether certain of his posts are alignment indicative.

On May 21 2013 11:02 s0Lstice wrote:
I think that may have ended up being a violent agreement.



I see exactly what you are saying Marv, but I was concerning myself with his claim and you weren't. That was the rub.

On May 23 2013 05:45 s0Lstice wrote:
so just for shits and giggles BH...I know we are short on time, but if you flip green, I (we) are going to have to look at everyone again...including Marv.

Just so I have this right:
Sputnik's day 1 lynch is an unlikely scum lynch
did not reveal iamp was a mason when he was masoned with you
picking a fight with you day 1

these are the main points of why marv is town to you?

On May 23 2013 11:18 s0Lstice wrote:
Vayne-- the thing is this. as we lose more and more townies, your vote becomes increasingly important. I had you as town for everything up until the BH flip, and I really don't think a re-read is gonna change that (we'll see). don't be afraid to do what works best for you to catch mafia, but more importantly, listen to/read what others have to say. make this thread your bible. I want to win this game, and I know you want to as well.

Stutters-- did you read Hapa's case on Marv that iamp linked? Marv is an excellent player, and it's not going to fit like a glove every time, but it has a lot of good insights.

On May 23 2013 11:31 s0Lstice wrote:


Ok that's something. I need to look at my past games with him, and all his past games (gulp). I just have this expectation of Marv to be an over-achiever all the time when he's town, and if it's unreasonable, it's unreasonable.

Marv has just been a sort of blind spot for me this game, and I need to correct it.

On May 29 2013 00:59 DarthPunk wrote:
I am willing to lynch GK for consolidation etc. we all need to consolidate so there are no last minute scum switches.

On May 29 2013 01:01 VayneAuthority wrote:


Yea I think this is they key here to this day. Have to keep an eye on the people that havent voted yet...s0lstice taking his vote off me is so hilariously scummy but I already know why he did it. I wouldn't have a problem lynching either GK or s0lstice because they are both scum. Lets see who they are going to try to bus last second l0l.