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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On May 29 2013 01:07 marvellosity wrote: how the fuck did i end up writing "goodmarka" in the voting thread. oh well. What do you think of s0lstice soft pushing you like 2 cycles before he thought you were scum? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I am and was reacting to this wagon. Saying I'm not is a lie. I asked you to explain yourself...I didn't spam the thread freaking the fuck out because that's not how I play. Saying as well that I haven't been pushing stuff makes me think you haven't really looked at my filter. I made a read on GK on day one and asked people to look, I did push it. I helped push the wagon on BH when it was faltering a little, because I was pretty sure he was scum. I looked into JJD with Marv, attempting not to waste the day when BH was on the block all day. I'm not really sure what you are expecting to see in a game where our day 2 and day 3 lynch targets were effectively locked in right at the beginning of the day. I needed to talk about set-up to determine who I wanted to lynch. It's that simple. I wanted to fully understand why lynching scum or SK was better/worse for town, because if lynching the SK for example ends the game for town, then I don't want to be sitting there calling for the SK to die. You have no idea why a townie wants to lynch Marv. I explained some, but again, until I get the time to write a case, it's probably not going to be clear to you. Think I'm wrong all you want, but being wrong doesn't make me scum. I haven't pushed grush at all. He is unpushable, because whether or not he is scum depends on whether or not he lied with his starsenses. Through process of elimination, I'm assuming he lied, but I'm not going to be asking anybody to consider his lynch until its necessary. Such is the way with grush. If you can't understand why me, thinking marv is scum, and seeing you constantly calling him town without justification would say fuck the town read and just get angry enough to call you scum for shitting up my current game view thats been broken down and reconstructed a number of times, and after all the weird and frustrating shit that town has gone through this game, then I can't help you here. It was irrational because it was a feeling. The way I've pushed Marv is a legitimate point. It takes a monumental effort in any game for someone of my junior stature to get Marv lynched. Thoughts or a paragraph here and there are not going to do it. Like I said earlier, Marv was a bit of a blindspot for me (in that I didn't go through his filter with a fine-tooth comb) for a bit because of iamp and BH and you saying he was town. That doesn't mean I didn't take a few opportunities to feel him out in the thread, as I see you've quoted. It wasn't until around when I said (night yamato died) that I really thought that Marv was scum. Anyway though, I feel you have legitimate beef here, and if I get lynched for how I pushed Marv it'll be my fault. I gotta step away for a bit now. I'll be back in an hour or so, but phone posting (argh) | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
As well as this please explain in particular why it's likely you are correct in contrast to 3 strong players (2 of which have flipped town) who have played dozens of games with me who were convinced I'm town, please also explain how you view the marv/Dandel argument. | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
goodkarma (3): VayneAuthority, marvellosity, DarthPunk JarJarDrinks (2): WaveofShadow, goodkarma, s0Lstice (1): Not Voting (2): grush57, s0Lstice goodkarma is set to be lynched. Deadline is in ~3.5 hours. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 29 2013 01:01 VayneAuthority wrote: Yea I think this is they key here to this day. Have to keep an eye on the people that havent voted yet...s0lstice taking his vote off me is so hilariously scummy but I already know why he did it. I wouldn't have a problem lynching either GK or s0lstice because they are both scum. Lets see who they are going to try to bus last second l0l. This is so stupid, his vote wasn't even on you to begin with. Are you just randomly making up shit to call solstice scum? Tell me Vayne, why did he do it? And you never answered my questions from last night. Honestly, I'm losing my townread on you little by little. You randomly show up, sling shit, and disappear. You're just lucky I don't want to derail current lynch options today; it's bad enough for consolidation purposes there are already 3 apparent choices atm. When JJD flips scum I'm looking into you next hardcore. Solstice: I disagree with your points regarding JJD's posting being 'genuine,' it seems just as likely to me that it's just smart and aggressive scumplay, whether or not you think he's capable of it. Nobody thought DP was scum for going balls to the wall on BH so JJD can easily get away with the same thing apparently. I'm re-reading JJD again but there are so many things in there that just seem so ridiculous to me. It does however lead me tobelieve that they can't both be scum together; I'm still on JJD being the scum atm. Like, he responds to my suspicion that his switch onto solstice was scummy (because he doesn't talk about solstice at all pre-vote) without explaining that point of my reasoning. He then delves into a hugely convoluted case trying to look back at solstice only because I essentially forced him to. The votes on GK right now seem pretty opportunistic considering (aside from Grush) he's the only one not around during the highly active period to properly defend himself. I just don't get why we're not 100% lynching JJD. I don't like the idea of 3 wagons atm so if my convincing of people continues to fail I will switch but I don't feel right about either solstice or GK right now. I'm really sick of re-reading so hopefully they'll come back so I can talk to them. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 29 2013 02:50 VayneAuthority wrote: you really love making big paragraphs about typo's, its pretty obvious that its "taking his vote off for me" I am not that dumb to think he was voting me today or something. What question did I not answer exactly? I responded to every single one of your posts That wasn't obvious to me at all, but thanks for clearing it up. On May 28 2013 14:54 WaveofShadow wrote: What is it about JJD's play makes you think town, Vayne? I just don't get it. This is the last you talk of him and it was days ago. How did you go from scum to town exactly? Where was your response to this? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
"there are so many things that seem ridiculous to me", I'd like to know what these are especially | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Day 1 you passed off responsibility for driving the sputnik lynch to iamp, saying something like 'iamp rally the children, they are not listening to me.' It struck me as odd. I don't feel like town marv, seeing he is not being heeded, does this. You said in the mason qt that 'we need to look out for players like s0lstice.' You didnt feel anything strongly about me either way. To me this says you should be dissecting my every post from that point on. A null read can only be null for so long, having no idea on someone is dangerous. You then demonstrated to me that you werent putting much care in reading my posts by badly misinterpreting something i said to BH. Im talking about the conversation i had with BH about whether he was reading the thread, which you interpreted as me talking about his alignment. Reading a post the wrong way is not scummy by itself, but when its coupled with an assertion that 'we have to watch out for this guy,' it becomes questionable. The post wasnt especially unclear either. Your behavior around the BH scumslip i already talked. Short version is you acted in a self concious way. Your re-entry in to the thread post slip said nothing about the slip, like it wasn't the most important thing going on at the time. DP had to ask you before you said yay or nay. Also, in the mason QT you said it could be 100% explained by him not reading the thread. Why weren't you in the thread screaming this at the top of your lungs? Here were people making definitive judgements on BHs alignment from the slip alone, and you were content to not correct them. Also from before, I think its way more likely iamp died because he masoned a scum marv, not that the scum team saw his claim and changed their kill in the minutes they had between that and the deadline. You assert that it was obvious that he was blue. Can you explain how? I don't think I was the only one who didn't think that was the case. Now it could be the case that scum could have just wanted to off a strong town read, but then why not you? If you were so obviously town, I have to believe they would have tried, medics be damned. Youve been killed many times night 1...I just don't see a scum team wifoming themselves out of trying for you. And iust in general, the scum team has been pretty good so far. We are in disarray, and the blue sniping has been awesome. I can't in good conscious believe that a team consisting of some permutation of jj/grush/vayne/dandel/gk could play this scum game. No offense to them, but I'm not used to feeling so lost and on the brink as town, and I have to believe its because there's a strong leader on the scum team. Theres a few other instances of casual ambivalence when it comes reading comprehension of people you should have been really concerned with. Dont recall the specific instances as I am sitting here phone typing, but I know I raised my eyebrows. That's a summary. As far as others saying you are town, I consider it to be dangerous thinking to believe them without thinking through it myself. BH and company saying you are town only really matters if they are right 100% of the time. I mean, I respect their opinions and play, but I'm not going to let them play for me. If I go through the evidence and see scum, I'm not going to throw away my opinion without a really good explanation to the contrary. I've played with marv and he is town does not qualify. Your argument with dandel could have happened if you were both scum I think. He replaced in, saw you were on his team, doesn't like you, and decided to troll. Having looked at the argument a number of times, I think it could have happened for any combination of alignments. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:00 marvellosity wrote: WoS, I'm struggling to find any sort of consolidated case on JJD in your filter. Can you throw some points together? "there are so many things that seem ridiculous to me", I'd like to know what these are especially On May 22 2013 10:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok yeah this one is Newbie XL, the one I was talking about where all three scum derped and voteswitched with 5 min to go at LYLO. Already his filter is absolutely tiny in a game that has more pages than the previous one where he was town. Hmm. Well at a quick glance he seems to be actually directly engaging people in conversation somewhat and asking questions though he never follows a line of questioning at all, just pops in and out and does random shit. Figures my earlier meta basis is likely wrong, though there is something to be said that he doesn't really push anyone at all this game....could be due to lurk, could be due to scum or both. Either way he seems to be doing more this game than that earlier scum game? I don't know fuck the meta. Lol mathematically though at a glance (this is kinda funny, don't know if I'd vote him just based on this but still): NMM XXXIX - TOWN - Filter is 4 pages, thread is 33 = 12% NMM LX - SCUM - Filter is 2 pages, thread is 59 = 3% This game---???? Filter is 2 pages, thread is 99 thus far = 2% Which fits more?  (Obviously there are other factors like size of the game and how long the game was going for but JJD is well on track to fall FAR below his rate of posting as town) On May 22 2013 09:53 WaveofShadow wrote: JJD: NMM XXXIX - Ok the game I was originally thinking of when talking to Marv was NMM LX. I watched this game too and paid more attention to it than LX; I remember one of the players (scum) with the stupidest fakeclaim ever but it won them the game anyway lol. JJD's role in this game was Medic. Upon reading this (my meta reads are shit but marv asked) right off the bat I notice he is much less afraid here to engage other people in discussions and most importantly, questions. He is not the most prolific poster around but despite his filter not being absolutely massive is not afraid whatsoever to point out other people's lack of posting/lurking. Just overall a clear and obvious effort in this game from JJD. I sort of see what marv was originally looking for me to look for...there is a sort of aggression that certainly isn't present in XXXIX but I don't get the same feels that marv is, I guess. What stands out to me here is most of his posts and cases are set up to be almost rhetorical; that is he doesn't often directly address anyone in the thread, he simply posts. It's almost seems like avoiding eye contact when you're guilty. He doesn't often directly question anyone or follow a specific line of questioning very long as opposed to in XXXIX. /meta Take the above with a grain of salt because again I am not confident in my meta reads very much. They could go either way and I wouldn't mind if someone else looked into it to see if it has any merit. As for specifics on JJD this game, I've a;ready point out his useless reads post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972¤tpage=94#1863 His overall tunnely play against BH and grubbing for towncred I COULD see as town play, but I don't get then where he starts to suspect DP of bussing. I suppose not everyone sees things the way I do but I HIGHLY doubt in any way DPis anything but town the way he's been playing. Like...this post is almost like a scum pleading at town "But wait guys! I think BH is scum and look at all the scummy things he did! Why do you still think I'm scum? I'm with you guise!!" His case here and push on DP is interesting to say the least, but then he goes right back to BH and not a word at all about DP from then on where he magically flips onto me out of absolutely fucking nowhere. I don't know...there are things in here I COULD see from a town perspective I guess? There are a whole bunch of other scummy things on top of it though and I think the scummy things win out. Especially since he appears to be pretty damn lurky long past his promised 'weekend lurking' time. A few posts a day is not enough. Here's a couple (not sure how you missed them exactly if you were looking at my filter but whatever). TL;DR- My scumread of him is based on terrible reads (ie, fake) throughout the game that I personally believe do not belong to simply bad town, opportunistic active lurking (less so now than earlier in the game but still very lurky), and often zero explanation of vote flip-flopping. All pretty clear scum hallmarks to me and nothing in his play has shown me otherwise. Maybe if people actually looked into my cases WHEN I FUCKING MADE THEM, MARV, we could have been over this days ago. By all means though, continue to ignore me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
As for the rest of it, it's just a convenient narrative that I can't argue against; suffice to say everything can easily be given with the town explanation. Regarding the QT thing, I said to BH himself that the slip looked pretty fucking bad. Don't cherrypick. On May 19 2013 23:41 iamperfection wrote: You don't think scum mason is likely? What do you think would be the likely amount of blues in a 16 man and do you think there could be two town masons? this post made it pretty likely that iamp was blue, and also that iamp was mason, and you may be able to tell from my response to it that I'd figured it out as well. Further, look at the very first post in the QT - iamp had guessed that I'd worked it out as well. It wasn't rocket science. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 26 2013 12:33 WaveofShadow wrote: Are you fucking kidding me right now JJD? He didn't have to do shit to keep DI in the noose. You think it was because of marv that the vote to lynch him was unanimous? And this was like a fucking hour ago. Solstice: I disagree with your points regarding JJD's posting being 'genuine,' it seems just as likely to me that it's just smart and aggressive scumplay, whether or not you think he's capable of it. Nobody thought DP was scum for going balls to the wall on BH so JJD can easily get away with the same thing apparently. I'm re-reading JJD again but there are so many things in there that just seem so ridiculous to me. It does however lead me tobelieve that they can't both be scum together; I'm still on JJD being the scum atm. Like, he responds to my suspicion that his switch onto solstice was scummy (because he doesn't talk about solstice at all pre-vote) without explaining that point of my reasoning. He then delves into a hugely convoluted case trying to look back at solstice only because I essentially forced him to. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
now you're giving me examples of a billion posts across your filter to repeat consolidated consolidated | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I count four quoted posts in the two i just made. Total. You're being lazy and a #^@%^. And I wouldn't be so frustrated with being ignored if it didn't happen every fucking game by people who think they're too good to listen. If you truly are town you have a real funny way of showing it. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Solstice if we don't lose the game here and now I promise I will look hardcore into marv because there will not be enough support garnered to lynch him right now and it's too late in the day to start fucking around with new wagons. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
one of them was a post concluding with "i think the scummy things work out" one of them was a post about the DI lynch that I didn't think was that atrocious one of them was a post that I actually responded to asking you questions in the first place. how am I being a douche when I asked you perfectly nicely for some consolidated reasons, and you just started swearing at me? Get a grip. To repeat, you said there are "so many things that seem ridiculous to me" you pointed out one you find ridiculous, what are the other 'so many'? Because in those posts alone your conclusions weren't as firm as you're making them out to be now. | ||
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