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On May 14 2013 04:47 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
chaoser can you tell me what did DP do that counts as scumhunting before i told him to stop defending himself? 1) What chance did he have of scumhunting after his miller claim when pretty much everyone was on him? 2) Do you not consider his questioning of obviousone's posts and pressure on him scum hunting? 3) What was the purpose of your posts to DP? what was your goal with those two posts and then leaving? pressure?
1) That was the whole point. As he claimed miller he should have not defended himself and his claim after that. Of course people are going to jump on a scummy claim like that. The correct way to deal with everyone being on him would have been to say "you think this is scummy, i don't, deal with it. Now drop the issue and go find scum, if you think i'm scum, vote for me D1 and we work from there". That's why i told him to go do something useful.
2) No i didn't at that time. However as i said i now agree with Prome on OO and his contributions with DP (and the night kills).
3) Yes, pressure and creating topics to discuss (this includes me wanting people to discuss me). That's also why i said to DP "everyone besides you is probably town besides you". I'm kinda surprised noone else than shirokami brought that up. I also thought at that point everyone else did look town, as not many people had posted real content. If you look at my past games i always want to create discussion at the start of the game. You can also find out what i do think about miller claims in a setup where the number of millers is not known.
Shiro: I hope this answers your question aswell.
chaoser: Do you think OO is scummy? If no, why, and why do you think DP was killed?
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Just being curious, why do people think prplhz is scum?
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On May 14 2013 04:55 Vivax wrote:
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I don't mind concluding D1 with a policy lynch either, looking along the ranks of Sinani/BM/prplhz , scum will never kill them anyway.
Why not Kush?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 14 2013 05:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 04:55 Vivax wrote:
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I don't mind concluding D1 with a policy lynch either, looking along the ranks of Sinani/BM/prplhz , scum will never kill them anyway. Why not Kush?
i have seen prplhz be useful. Same with BM, in his own way.
strong disgree with policy lynch of prplhz or BM
mild categorical disagree with policy lynches in general
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BH i'm not saying we should policy lynch either of them. I'm asking Vivax why does Kush not make it into that list. Btw what happened to your "pressure OO" stuff? Havn't seen that on D1.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
his response was pretty shit this i will admit
WoS for me is priority 1 and to be fair the day has just begun
I can look more into OO who for me remains somewhat scum
but this lynch on WoS is more important because... he is definitely scum
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BH do you think Vayne is scum or town?
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Prplhz isn't just of a policy lynch from my perspective, but it adds up to the decision.
I hydrad with kush in Hydra II and I don't recall him playing that badly there, if he doesn't stay regularly active and eager to share who his reads are, then he's up for lynch. That should be more or less the situation atm, so yeah, add kush unless he brings some more to the table.
I prefer to lynch prplhz before Rayn, I appreciated his latest contributions, although I'll need more time to get to a conclusive read.
My recap about prplhz is that he tried too hard to play the "good & helpful townie" role at the beginning, while his inconsistency and lack of contribution tells otherwise. He had a bunch of unanswered questions and completely stopped pursuing them, and he spoke about some general advice/moderation stuff before that.
After that, he disappeared to come back to say something about sloosh.
Prplhz is who I wanna lynch.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Vayne definitely has some faulty priors. He seems to have latched on to unmeaningful interactions with Kita and trying to figure out why scum(?) shot DP. He hasn't responding properly to accusations and has voted prplhz for non-useful reasons.
That being said, this tells me "worthless town" more than it tells me "scum" and if people read VA as scum they are doing it wrong. Scum doesn't use blatantly bad or wrong-headed analysis methods (necessarily). The fact that VA is trying to solve the game and work out who is scum based on the flips, as he said he would during N0, shows me he's at least trying to get something done. He has blatantly said he's not rereading filters and just reading the game as it develops. Is this a shit-bad way of playing? absolutely. But it's not a scummy way of playing. He's not trying to hide behind meanings, he's not trying to avoid taking stances, and although he's bad, he has the mindset of someone trying to work this game out.
All this subject to change as the situation develops-- but I would not lynch him today.
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Vivax i suggest you look at Red Team Prize before you make statements like that on prpl. I agree that he needs to contribute, but i would not lynch him now.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Also there's no reason to lynch rayn. He's an effective town player, and if he fails to deliver on his usual level of analysis we can always lynch him later. I say we wait a day or two and see if scum freaks out and shoots him first even if we think there's a chance of him being scum.
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BH let me get this straight;
You want to lynch WoS for him straight up agreeing with you that scum killed DP, but not Vayne even when he did take a full 180 on flip analysis when you told him scum might have more than 1 KP?
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On May 14 2013 05:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i suggest you look at Red Team Prize before you make statements like that on prpl. I agree that he needs to contribute, but i would not lynch him now.
You are free to not vote for him if you don't think he's scum, but I feel quite confident about the choice and given the policy component I wouldn't feel too bad if I was wrong. Looks like win-win to me.
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On May 14 2013 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:
Also there's no reason to lynch rayn. He's an effective town player, and if he fails to deliver on his usual level of analysis we can always lynch him later. I say we wait a day or two and see if scum freaks out and shoots him first even if we think there's a chance of him being scum.
Actually I have this 3-day rule with rayn.
If he doesnt find any scum in 3 days, lynch him.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 14 2013 05:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
BH let me get this straight;
You want to lynch WoS for him straight up agreeing with you that scum killed DP, but not Vayne even when he did take a full 180 on flip analysis when you told him scum might have more than 1 KP?
Almost!
I want to lynch WoS for HOW he agreed with me that scum killed DP, and I want to not lynch vayne because HOW he did his 180 on flip analysis.
Perhaps I didn't make this clear enough in my case: Whether someone buddies me, or whether someone disagrees with me, or whether someone derps or is wrong or is right, these are not how you catch scum. Scum can fake agreeing or disagreeing or being good or being bad as much as they want. A scum player could just bus all his buddies and pretend to be a master scumhunter, if all you look at is who he pushes and who he defends. I'm not saying this isn't useful information (since scum obviously don't want to bus) but this is only part of the picture.
When you hunt scum, you need to pay attention to HOW people do things, and what they are thinking (or not thinking) when they do. WoS's post, imo, could not have come from a town mindset. I don't think he'd have written what he did the way he did if he really was town and was wondering why we were in agreement. Vayne, on the other hand, really just seems to be that wrongheaded, and although I don't think of him as captain mctown, i can see how from a town PoV Vayne has written what he has.
This is how you hunt scum.
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On May 14 2013 05:59 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 05:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i suggest you look at Red Team Prize before you make statements like that on prpl. I agree that he needs to contribute, but i would not lynch him now. You are free to not vote for him if you don't think he's scum, but I feel quite confident about the choice and given the policy component I wouldn't feel too bad if I was wrong. Looks like win-win to me.
I don't think the policy component makes prpl more scum/town and that's a shitty to add that as a reason. If you want to policy lynch him for being a lurker, fine. But i smell something fishy here.. Why are you paining this as a "possible policy lynch if you are wrong"?
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On May 14 2013 06:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 05:59 Vivax wrote:On May 14 2013 05:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i suggest you look at Red Team Prize before you make statements like that on prpl. I agree that he needs to contribute, but i would not lynch him now. You are free to not vote for him if you don't think he's scum, but I feel quite confident about the choice and given the policy component I wouldn't feel too bad if I was wrong. Looks like win-win to me. I don't think the policy component makes prpl more scum/town and that's a shitty to add that as a reason. If you want to policy lynch him for being a lurker, fine. But i smell something fishy here.. Why are you paining this as a "possible policy lynch if you are wrong"?
Cause I wouldn't cry over his loss if he's town, he's not one of the guys I want to have around lategame. Should I be more politically correct?
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Now I don't understand where you are going with your questions, actually. You say it's fine if I want to lynch a lurker, when I wrote a case against prplhz, and in the next sentence you say it's not ok if it's a policy lynch where I could be wrong.
Rayn rayn
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On May 14 2013 06:03 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 05:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
BH let me get this straight;
You want to lynch WoS for him straight up agreeing with you that scum killed DP, but not Vayne even when he did take a full 180 on flip analysis when you told him scum might have more than 1 KP? Almost! I want to lynch WoS for HOW he agreed with me that scum killed DP, and I want to not lynch vayne because HOW he did his 180 on flip analysis. Perhaps I didn't make this clear enough in my case: Whether someone buddies me, or whether someone disagrees with me, or whether someone derps or is wrong or is right, these are not how you catch scum. Scum can fake agreeing or disagreeing or being good or being bad as much as they want. A scum player could just bus all his buddies and pretend to be a master scumhunter, if all you look at is who he pushes and who he defends. I'm not saying this isn't useful information (since scum obviously don't want to bus) but this is only part of the picture. When you hunt scum, you need to pay attention to HOW people do things, and what they are thinking (or not thinking) when they do. WoS's post, imo, could not have come from a town mindset. I don't think he'd have written what he did the way he did if he really was town and was wondering why we were in agreement. Vayne, on the other hand, really just seems to be that wrongheaded, and although I don't think of him as captain mctown, i can see how from a town PoV Vayne has written what he has. This is how you hunt scum.
I understand what you are saying. My point is that i myself do not understand why Vayne just agreed with you on the 2 KP thing. He did not explain it when i asked him about it. That's why i don't see the difference between WoS and Vayne, and i don't understand how you do see it. Gonna reread WoS now.
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EPT
