EPTOn May 09 2013 07:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Would him being carefree include his dumb vote on yamato?
Would him being carefree include his dumb vote on yamato?
actually that's worse upon re-reading.
Still not sure he's shit-tier.
TL Mafia LXI - Page 265
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
actually that's worse upon re-reading. Still not sure he's shit-tier. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Why do you want to know the thought process of a strong town read on a strong town read that you agree with? Because why not? Maybe WoS knows something I don't know and it can help me understand the game. Maybe BM made a good post I've missed (I've basically disregarded BM since this post of mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18481428) | ||
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getmoript
1016 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:12 Palmar wrote: Assuming that scum did NOT hold their block, BC can, I suppose, be safely removed from the pool of players I need to look at today, leaving 4. geript stutters hopeless giggles I think that this list is shit. Inactivity at this point is less likely to come from scum we're in the phase where inactivity kills. If they felt defeated already they could've just conceded after Ace was killed. Scum obviously feel confident that despite being shit on early, they have a good shot at winning, that means that scum are likely more active than inactive. If anything, Palmar's just throwing shit out to push another mislynch. He's bitching about people calling him scum is based on shit; that's the pot calling the kettle black. His whole case on yamato was shit. Here's his case on Oats: "He called me scum so Oats is totes scum." Here's Palmar's case on yamato: "Yamato called me scum so he's totes scum." Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. Besides, you had to 'check' to see if you taking a hit after being jailed would be told; you were only checking to see if you could safely claim the hit. It also explains why there was only 1 roleblock on N2 because you recognized Ace was scum and didn't want to die. Ace must've taken the hit on N1. Proofs and shit. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:26 Palmar wrote: Why do you know BM isn't scum? I agree, I just want to know your thought process. A few things that I can point out real quick. I know I was unsure of him for most of the game but in later days: On May 06 2013 18:21 Bill Murray wrote: Why do you see me as town? I realized what you meant, but I know you knew you didn't have to explain that to me. We are pretty much on the same page, from what I have read from you... I didn't really think Drazak was scum, even when I made a weak little case on him - I was just wanting to pressure your slot. That's where you replaced into, right? As far as I can tell this is rarely something scum wants to question even if it makes them look towny. I remember his analysis of the Shiao wagon at the time of the VE derail looked good, and then this. On May 08 2013 15:03 Bill Murray wrote: ok im modconfirmed town now Under normal circumstances I would think this to be alignment null but the act of pointing this out himself, knowing that if he was scum or wrong other people would shut him down (ie you) shows that he has complete confidence in this. I am unsure exactly why it modconfirms him town myself, same with the Geript thing (I have some idea about the gript thing but I think it's weak evidence) but nonetheless it is his actions. What about you, Palmar? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote: I think that this list is shit. Inactivity at this point is less likely to come from scum we're in the phase where inactivity kills. If they felt defeated already they could've just conceded after Ace was killed. Scum obviously feel confident that despite being shit on early, they have a good shot at winning, that means that scum are likely more active than inactive. If anything, Palmar's just throwing shit out to push another mislynch. He's bitching about people calling him scum is based on shit; that's the pot calling the kettle black. His whole case on yamato was shit. Here's his case on Oats: "He called me scum so Oats is totes scum." Here's Palmar's case on yamato: "Yamato called me scum so he's totes scum." Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. Besides, you had to 'check' to see if you taking a hit after being jailed would be told; you were only checking to see if you could safely claim the hit. It also explains why there was only 1 roleblock on N2 because you recognized Ace was scum and didn't want to die. Ace must've taken the hit on N1. You can't have it both buddy. Either I'm wrong or I'm scum. And because fuck you, I actually (as explained in the TRN QT) did not think Oats would flip scum. But yes, I called yamato scum because he called me scum without providing any reasoning. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:29 Palmar wrote: Because why not? Maybe WoS knows something I don't know and it can help me understand the game. Maybe BM made a good post I've missed (I've basically disregarded BM since this post of mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18481428) Because you've already got a strong town read on him, as does pretty much the entire thread so all it'd do is clutter up the thread. On May 09 2013 07:30 Palmar wrote: More importantly, Yamato and WoS both seem to share an unexplained town read on GiygaS. Can someone enlighten me? Dunno why they did, but this was my read on him. On May 05 2013 03:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: GiygaS was on Shiao and Clarity pretty early too. It makes me wonder if we're putting too much weight on potential bussing. They could've pulled a Boardwalk. I checked an older game of GiygaS, L was the first one I found. He was town and got shot N1 in a game with 42 players. Really good D1 with lots of long yet concise posts analyzing a myriad of players. (link) This game, he's done it a few times as well, like here and here. Concise posts, and he shows how his thought process evolves. At first, he doesn't suspect Ace (putting him as null), then rereads and changes his read. It's something he did in his town game as well. I see a lot of similarities, and his play seems to suggest a pro-town agenda. In general, too many similarities for me to consider him scum. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote: I think that this list is shit. Inactivity at this point is less likely to come from scum we're in the phase where inactivity kills. If they felt defeated already they could've just conceded after Ace was killed. Scum obviously feel confident that despite being shit on early, they have a good shot at winning, that means that scum are likely more active than inactive. If anything, Palmar's just throwing shit out to push another mislynch. He's bitching about people calling him scum is based on shit; that's the pot calling the kettle black. His whole case on yamato was shit. Here's his case on Oats: "He called me scum so Oats is totes scum." Here's Palmar's case on yamato: "Yamato called me scum so he's totes scum." Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. Besides, you had to 'check' to see if you taking a hit after being jailed would be told; you were only checking to see if you could safely claim the hit. It also explains why there was only 1 roleblock on N2 because you recognized Ace was scum and didn't want to die. Ace must've taken the hit on N1. Proofs and shit. lol jesus Geript, tell us how you really feel. This is the kind of thing I was trying to refrain from posting, though the points in there have merit. As far as a townread on Giggles, I'll get back to you on that, I remember those being my last thoughts towards him but I haven't looked in a while. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:34 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys. Catching up now. you dead son | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:34 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys. Catching up now. I don't think you need to bother m8 On May 09 2013 07:19 Blazinghand wrote: Sutters695 the brave wizard has been modkilled for inactivity please leave all discussions of modkills for the postgame | ||
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getmoript
1016 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:34 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys. Catching up now. This reminds me of a time when a crazy player I knew who got lynched D1 posted like right after the lynch saying he'd be more active somehow completely missing the fact that he was lynched. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:32 WaveofShadow wrote: A few things that I can point out real quick. I know I was unsure of him for most of the game but in later days: As far as I can tell this is rarely something scum wants to question even if it makes them look towny. I remember his analysis of the Shiao wagon at the time of the VE derail looked good, and then this. Under normal circumstances I would think this to be alignment null but the act of pointing this out himself, knowing that if he was scum or wrong other people would shut him down (ie you) shows that he has complete confidence in this. I am unsure exactly why it modconfirms him town myself, same with the Geript thing (I have some idea about the gript thing but I think it's weak evidence) but nonetheless it is his actions. What about you, Palmar? I actually have a meta reason for being almost certain that BM is town. In PYP I made a case on him on day one as to being scum: On April 06 2013 20:55 Palmar wrote: @Mocsta: BM is scum. he adds nothing at all with his posts which (surprisingly enough) is actually very uncharacteristic for him if he's town. Just based on content alone he's really not doing much except giving out a townread on VE based on meta for whatever reason. In order to see whether there was a difference or not, I went to BC's arkham city, an old game but one with mechanics to deal with and BM playing town, and his posting there couldn't be more different from what he's doing here, or well... it could, but then it wouldn't be BM anymore. so I had BM's meta very freshly in my mind. So what I did was simply compare these two games and his involvement early on: Arkham City (Town BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=54241 Boardwalk-PYP (Scum BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&user=54241 and then this game. I actually thought it was BM who was the JK for a long time, based on this: On April 22 2013 13:40 Bill Murray wrote: and idc if they're unhappy. i have 1 vote on me. i didnt "pull any stunts". I was entering the thread in the random voting stage, and goofing off mildly, because I am happy that I rolled a good role for my win %. and the excitement about roles reminded me of his AC play (not being able to shut up about roles) On February 08 2012 01:59 Bill Murray wrote: when i say half of the game having names of their own, i mean to say half of the game are town power roles if you are not green, and not mafia, you are a power role, right? i guess not all 16 have to be in the game... anyways, im going to officially claim that i am not a townie In addition, just look at how terrible his PYP filter is, it's basically aggressive oneliners, stark contrast with his attempts at figuring things out day 1 here. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote: Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. why you heff 2 be mad? it's only game? | ||
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getmoript
1016 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
the last three games where I got lynched as scum, so you can compare my efforts/defense: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=87086 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=87086 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=87086 | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
I need a more comprehensive read for a conclusion | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18366667 Who do you think was the first scum on shiaopi's wagon back on day 1? On April 27 2013 05:00 Blazinghand wrote: ~~~ Vote Count ~~~ VisceraEyes (2): Palmar, Kushm4sta (1) Bill Murray GiygaS (1): grush57, Palmar (1): ShiaoPi (7): Clarity_nl (4): Sharrant, Ace, Stutters695 (0): Ace (0): yamato77 (1): BloodyCobbler Sharrant (1): Hopeless1nder Remember, this Day ends when a majority is reached. As soon as a majority is reached, please stop posting until the Night Post has been posted. Only votes in the voting thread will be counted! The voting thread can be found here: (link) With 23 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch. The next vote up is hopeless on shiaopi. Most of the people already on shia at this time are townies. I wonder when bussing started. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On May 02 2013 13:06 Hopeless1der wrote: WaveofShadow Overall have him as town. A bit in this quote i like + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 08:40 WaveofShadow wrote: lol this is a terrible reason for not thinking I'm scum but whatever. CC because of his scumread on Geript; especially since it was before the 'mod-confirmed' horseshit, I want to see if he changes his mind. Kush for similar reasons since he threw a vote on geript as well right before the 'confirmation' and right after agreed that this confirms geript as town without removing his vote. Want to gain some insight into his thoughts processes as well regarding his townreads. Reading carefully and noting something that seems wrong/stupid. Town points from me. Looks like he was suspicious of buddying to me. I dont think mafia would target amongst themselves like WoS picked ShiaoPi out at the end of this quote: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 09:21 WaveofShadow wrote: I didn't say VE is scum. I said an inactive VE is often scum. but I was thankful that he has started posting more because that probably means he's NOT scum and fits with my townread. Don't put words in my mouth, Vivax. Objective was the wrong word to use, yeah. What I meant was everything he says about VE makes sense considering his actions in the games I've played with him, but again there's something in VE's play that has been assuring me he's town...I'll call it a gutread. If Oats flipped town? I'd honestly be tempted to destroy a lot of the lurk going on but they're probably getting replaced and I also know that's not great right now. As far as 'active' posters go ShiaoPi's attack on a town Sharrant doesn't look great to me. I don't have other strong scumreads atm and am going to have to go through and look if you want more than that. There is also his miller claim. I went through it already hereish and a bit more in that area of the thread. Ultimately I see it as a townie claiming. Bill Murray One of the first to call out Clarity. Kind of flipflops a bit but pulls through in the end. Also, Clarity with the rage In spite of this, I have BM as slightly scummy. He never actually follows through on voting Sharrant like he said he would just above that flip-flop post I linked above. (in thread) Going though his filter he jumps to kush-ve scumteam, with clarity as a LAL target and giggles for "parrotting", which is what he accused WoS and CC of in his flipflop dilemma. He goes on to associate case / omgus rayn with his kush read + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2013 06:45 Bill Murray wrote: yo anyone remember this post? all i said was "sheverus shnape" i didnt claim ANYTHING town vivax is wanting to question me scum rayn is wanting to push a mislynch on a vet FoS rayn attacks vivax when i dont need an out due to the wording, hell, the LETTERING being an obvious joke...... trying to make an associative tell and chainlynch on d1.... scummy scummy scum this interaction with another scumspect of mine, kush, makes him look awful im saying kush, rayn, and WoS are maf how many are left? brb once i find if WoS chimed in on this Later on, he drop this list where he no longer is so strongly against kush/rayn, but nevertheless... + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2013 07:17 Bill Murray wrote: Town regime: Bill Murray Ace Palmar BloodyCobbler Sharrant Probably town, not 100% in order: Grush57 Mr. Cheesecake TheRavensName Artanis[Xp] getmoript ObviousOne Grush57 Policy lynches: Yamato77 Hopeless1der Stutters695 ShiaoPi GiygaS Scum in here: raynpelikoneet Kushm4sta Sylencia VisceraEyes WaveofShadow I want to leave rayn for now. I also want to leave kush. I want to lynch VE, Sylencia, or WoS... preferably VE or WoS, as Sylencia is more of a gutread His reads are so volatile, and they also have 3 flipped townies (and what I believe to be another 2) in the "scum-in-here" section. Not liking that at all. He could very well just be wrong as all hell (so could I about kush/WoS), but I find that list of his really sketchy. Lastly, there's the issue of his activity, but who am I to talk, right? Stutters On the basis of primarily this exchange, I have stutters as town for the moment. Other than this, his filter is even shorter than mine and this was the most alignment indicative thing to me. kushm4sta + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2013 08:14 yamato77 wrote: Question: Has Kush suspected any of the mafia we have flipped this game? If yes, he is mafia. If no, we can ignore him. I cba to look at his filter. I checked, we can ignore him. Proof On April 30 2013 09:37 kushm4sta wrote: I will not vote for shiaopi or cc ever. I think they are both town. In all seriousness, I had kush as town from when he pulled this gem: and the resulting conclusions that he drew from it. He refused to acknowledge that his reasoning was not town-exclusive in a way that only kush can be oblivious. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 01:29 Oatsmaster wrote: No, why would their role pm be different from town? Also sample role pms are in the OP IIRC Please dont let this become the flavor thing from that game. Game in question was Acme Mini Mafia where kush thought he was sandroba and could solve the game with flavor claims Also that thing yamato cited where kush busses all the time is something i believe, so thats another point for town-kush. Hats will be eaten in the event I am wrong on this one. (Not Red) "Modconfirmed" not scum. Possibly 3rd party, but I'm leaning town due to my read on Ace and the lack of NK's. I guess survivor is possible, but there's no reason to go after him, so leave him be imo. ObviousOne I fully believe this. I'm not reading OO's filter to discern his alignment at this point. If I'm still alive in the morning I'll probably give it a whirl to be on the safe side TheRavensName Most recent points against Palmar to me show well thought out reasoning as to why his mason role should be a pro-town entity and Palmar's actions are scummy. I feel scum would have verified their accusation, to prevent this kind of backtracking from being necessary. A decent amount of his thoughts on Sharrant and WoS were in line with rayn, but not in a buddying or forced way to me. Looks natural. This really looks like a 2nd Cedric questioning the FLAVOR of the flip post. Massive towncred to TRN. gratz. Ace - Serial Poisoner On the basis of night-action analysis I believe ace is the serial poisoner. It lines up with there being 2 NK's the 2nd night and no further NK's since Ace has been roleblocked from N2 onwards it would seem. Unless a townie was responsible for grush's death, I consider it a 3rd party shot and given that they are COMPULSIVE, Ace makes the most sense in this situation. I'm tired and want to go to sleep. GiygaS, Artanis, Sharrant, Palmar and BC to follow tomorrow. I am debating whether to do yamato or not due to omgus bias. Random Setup Notes: Remaining players 2 Mafia Probably 12 town Probably 1 third party (with KP) Worst Case Scenario's Lynch = 11 town - 3 "scum" Factional + 3P NK =9 - 3 Lynch = 8 - 3 Factional+3P = 6 - 3 Lynch = 5 - 3 NK's = 3 - 3 Theoretical 3 mislynches remain until the game is truly unwinnable for town. This assumes 3P starts firing his lazer. Due to 1NK N1, that almost guarantees there is no SK and suggests we have 4 mislynches minimum due to delayed SP hits. On May 02 2013 22:35 Hopeless1der wrote: GiygaS He's just so goddamn right it gives me chills. He waffles a bit between scum(a) and scum (b) when there was reasonable suspicion to be had in pursuing WoS. Instead we get Promises a re-read, does it, changes his outlook. I see him giving thoughts freely in his filter despite lowish activity. I hope he finds more time for the game but I'd say hes town. Artanis[Xp] Tube looking for an easy target. Looked sincere. His self-proclaimed apathy for replacing in and not catching up is a point for being Null. I dont see that as something to lie about or try to hide behind. Cutting that aspect of his game out and of course reading his epic case on BC, Artanis is strongly town to me by virtue of tube association. Sharrant Strongest points for townie - Destroyed mafia vigilante - Strong activity early on. Strongest points for mafia - He's disappeared from active discussion of late. I'm attributing this to cop claim stress. I feel like hes wrong on a massive portion of his filter, but not in a scummy way because his reasoning is laid out in most cases. Palmar vs BC Reasons for BC to be scum: See Artanis' case. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
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