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On March 24 2013 05:29 Fishgle wrote:
Rayn, can you clarify what you mean by "raven [could be wrong] for the wrong reasons"? To me, it seems like all he's done is defend himself, and that to me isn't scummy.
Earlier i said this:
I'm still keeping my vote on Raven. He's voting me for trying to figure out stuff (lol), and for changing my mind every 5 seconds (lie). He's also adding more fuel on me by saying i didn't confront Frorgon (which i did) and when i explained that he said i lack the conclusion (lie). Other than that he has done very litte. His other suspect is Frorgon but he doesn't seem to want to figure out where Frorgon's head is at. He says Frorgon is suspicious but he doesn't want to investigate in that matter further. Every other thing he has commented is "JarJar made a suspicious post but i don't think he is that suspicious". His play makes no sense from town point of view.
If you can't find out where those things have happened, you are clearly not reading the thread. I'm not going to quote half of my & Raven's posts just because you are too lazy to read.
But the most suspicious to me is still rayn. He's been such a flurry of fingers that no one is looking at him (apart from Raven, I guess). Every time he has gotten called out, he carefully points a finger in a different direction. So, I still have my eye on you, rayn.
What do you mean by "pointing a finger in a different direction"? I'm trying to figure out who is mafia, something that you know, includes questioning people and telling what do you think of them and watching out how people react to different things. If you think that's suspicious then you do. I think that's what playing mafia is about.
But anyway. ##Vote:Rainbows
If i am the most suspicious person why are you voting for Rainbows instead?
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Okay, that's fucking unacceptable. It takes max 10 minutes to even skim through the thread and look at the cases presented so far.
##Unvote: TheRavensName
##Vote: Krafla
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Seriously. If there is any townie online, vote for Krafla. There is no reason to let him get away with that shit.
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seriously guys...blarf...
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The worst part is we should have definitely lynched Krafla. There is no question about it. Now everyone just gave him a free pass from D1. That's so incredibly dumb.
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On March 25 2013 00:33 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 23:37 Rainbows wrote:
Is night like no-post time or something?
This lynch was deplorable, and it's absolutely horrendous to wake up to. I figured there would be two wagons that we could analyze but instead someone just got lynched with TWO votes... Anyway, I'm not going to waste time getting mad over this. Posting stuff after resolution, hopefully it can wake some of you guys up. Its generally ill advised to post till late in the night, so you can't give the mafia a new target. But if you do it at the last second they likely won't have time to change it and you can safely make whatever case you wish.
This way you also make it impossible to analyze why mafia hit the person they did. Good job there...
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So we are arguing about if we should waste 24 hours by not talking in a game where talking is pretty much the only way for town to win this game unless you want to plain out guess who is mafia. I don't care what explinations you have been given but that's just really stupid.
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So on D2 you want to analyze who mafia hit based on what people did D1? Excuse me but how is that any less WIFOMy than if you had information from BOTH D1 and N1?
I'd rather base my reads on two phases than one and i can't figure out why you think that is worse. You are either mafia or really really stupid.
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Yes, because he refused to contribute anything to the day 1 lynch. It would have taken like 10 minutes to look at the cases and vote for the candidate he thought is most likely to be mafia. Now we can't base a read on him for the whole day 1 because either way (town/scum) he has information about who flipped and what and who voted for who.
And a selfvote is definitely not a town tell. Because everyone thinks it is! Look at the time, he confidently comes back 1,5 hours before the lynch when it's already reasonable to assume a lot of people won't be here. Look at the post in itself. He's already confident he won't get lynched. He says "he'll try and make it up tomorrow".
Well guess what Krafla. It's tomorrow now. You better start posting.
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If you were online, why didn't you say anything after the flip?
Why did you wait until now to come up with this?
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I mean, i can understand people not switching their votes (although i think it was really really stupid), but you could have said something about your thoughts after the phase change.
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Look, i try to explain better.
Barring some very rare situations, selfvoting is like playing against your victory condition, whatever alignmnet you are. Unless you want to take a risk that people won't actually lynch you because "you're sorry" or "i'll make this up later" or whatever bullshit. There is no reason why Krafla shouldn't have voted a person he thinks is mafia, whatever he bases his vote on (fuck, even randomly voting for someone is better than a selfvote). He can't possibly think he himself is mafia if he is town. There is no excuse to let him live for what he did.
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If Krafla does not contribute on D2, are you willing to lynch him in the end of D2? If yes, then why didn't you want to lynch him in the end of D1? His behaviour did not change and you didn't find it scummy enough to lynch for it before. It's pretty simple logic. I hate when people get away with this kinda stuff Krafla did.
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So you are basically giving someone an option to hardcore lurk if you just find someone more scummy?
That's what is the problem this game. People are afraid to vote for actually scummy actions and in general afraid to make decisions (we had two people not voting at all). There is no way we are going to find scum if everyone is afraid of giving their opinion about things.
I get you about keeping your vote on Frorgon. But how can Krafla say anything more scummy than anyone if people are okay with him saying nothing in the first place? That's the scummiest thing there is. Not saying anything at all.
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On March 25 2013 04:36 TheRavensName wrote:
I really wish I could read more into his self vote. I would have thought Mfia would jump on it if hes townie but I guess if they knew we were getting a townie anyways... maybe they didn't wanna risk suspicion.
There was no reason for mafia to jump on Krafla if he is town. Mafia does not want unnecessary attention. They would be getting a townie lynched anyways. Unless me and you are both mafia and feared someone might throw a third vote on you. Which is really stupid to start with.
There was obviously no reason for mafia to jump on Krafla if he was mafia. I think this does not need better explanation?
It tells nothing about other people. It only tells that Krafla was unwilling to take a stance on this D1 lynch.
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There is no point in telling who would you have voted for and stuff. The lynch went as it went already. It's irrelevant and whatever you say does not tell us anything because we can't do anything about it any more.
Just tell us who do you think is mafia and why.
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Okay, time to go to sleep, but first:
I feel a bit better about Krafla after his post.
I still don't like Raven for the reasons i stated on D1. And for our exchange on N1.
I don't like Fishgle. His only contribution to the game is this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 24 2013 05:29 Fishgle wrote:
Rayn, can you clarify what you mean by "raven [could be wrong] for the wrong reasons"? To me, it seems like all he's done is defend himself, and that to me isn't scummy.
yea, I haven't been following my own advice. Woops.
as for virtu, I really don't think there's any reason to vote for him. He has some vapid posts and then some angry defensive ones. Again, defending yourself doesn't make you guilty.
Rainbow is tunneling too hard on virtu, and basically refuses to look at other options. I find that really odd. Virtu made 1 defensive post, in which he got clearly angry. And somehow it's gotten 2 votes on virtu, by himself and Frogron, who I think is also suspicious. Furthermore, he has strange bouts of language. "what does though thinkest of me?" ""Ahh! Yes! This fine TLer right here, he is advocating pro-town things!" "IF THIS IS YOUR PHILOSOPHY ON PLAYING TOWN, PLEASE LEAVE SIR" etc. Either he's normally that theatric, or it bubbles up whenever he bullshits. I think it's the latter.
But the most suspicious to me is still rayn. He's been such a flurry of fingers that no one is looking at him (apart from Raven, I guess). Every time he has gotten called out, he carefully points a finger in a different direction. So, I still have my eye on you, rayn.
But anyway. ##Vote:Rainbows
What does it say:
- I am suspicious because i question many people (lol)
- Rainbows is suspicious because he want's virtu lynched and "is tunneling him"
First of all, this is a contradiction. If it's scummy to question many people, how is it scummy to focus just on one person then? What should it be then? Like two people? or three? What the hell?
Also this: You can't get more than one scum lynched per day. Why try to make multiple cases? If one of them is town, scum agree on it and you can't call them out after lynch because you fucking made the case.
The most hilarious part is that he thinks i am the scummiest guy but he votes for Rainbows.
I really wish everyone would contribute more on D2 because noone is really giving me strong town vibe. JarJar i had as almost certainly town before, but i didn't like his N1 posts. I also need to reread virtu's posts and the cases against him from D1, because it seems like a lot of people are suspicious of him. Rainbows and nobodywonder fall on slightly town category, both of them made at least some sense and had actual opinions that seemed like coming from a townie. Rainbows also made the case on virtu and it made sense when he summed it up. I think that cases are more likely to come from townies than from mafia @ D1.
If i die i would really like you to re read my case on Raven. Also do not let Fishgle get away with that kinda shit he posted. And make people contribute. I felt like D1 was really inactive for most of the people. N1 was even worse.
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I still find TheRavensName the most suspicious person. Here is why:
First, this post of his, which i based my case on him on D1:
On March 22 2013 23:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +I gotta agree that jarjars post and hostility might be a little suspicious... however I know I did something similar in the last nmm and ended up doing some pretty decent work so I see no reason to punish it till after other people show up. Day 1 is a scary and uncertain period for those unsure how to get the ball rolling. - Raven "agrees with me" that JarJar is hostile. I have never implied i think JarJar is being hostile. Raven is basically saying i think JarJar is hostile which is a pure lie. Because i don't think so. - Raven is saying "JarJar might be suspicious but might not be". What's the point of saying so? Someone is suspicious or not. Mafia tends to do that because they would already know they are accusing a townie and it's easier to retract from your accusation if you give yourself an out in the first place.- "Day 1 is a scary and uncertain period for those unsure how to get the ball rolling". Spreading fear. There is no point saying this kinda stuff if you are town. We need discussion and you are not promoting it here at all. You are doing the opposite. This is not townielike at all.
Then he tries to make me look bad. Look at this exchange:
On March 23 2013 07:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TheRavensName:
Why are you ignoring the fact that i called Frorgon out right after he made his post about you and JarJar? You should really read the whole thread and not only the parts that fit into your cases / suspicions.
On March 23 2013 08:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 07:52 TheRavensName wrote:On March 23 2013 07:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 23 2013 07:35 TheRavensName wrote:On March 22 2013 23:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 22 2013 23:03 Frorgon wrote:
What's wrong Raven? You guys trying to cover each other's ass? If they are covering each other, why would JarJar point out Raven's suspicious actions? Is this what your refering to each other? This is hardly calling him out. Your disagreeing with his post and then just walking away from it, instead of asking him why does he think we are covering each other when Jarjar has called me suspicious. Isn't that exactly what i am asking there? But there is no follow up by you for the purpose of trying to get an answer out of him would be my point. But that's not true at all. I can't make Frorgon post when i want him to. It was a simple question i assumed he would answer the next time he posts. Which he did. I didn't buy his answer as i explained a couple of posts ago. And i think he is scummy. I'm not giving anyone a free pass but it definitely does not help i confront Frorgon or anyone about the same things they have not been able to answer to yet. That kinda stuff will only shit up the thread and does not help at all.
After this he just drops the issue without even saying if he thinks i'm wrong or if he agrees with me. The accusation in the first place is a lie as i have pointed out very clearly in the quotes.
This masterpiece is from N1:
On March 25 2013 01:01 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 00:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 25 2013 00:33 TheRavensName wrote:On March 24 2013 23:37 Rainbows wrote:
Is night like no-post time or something?
This lynch was deplorable, and it's absolutely horrendous to wake up to. I figured there would be two wagons that we could analyze but instead someone just got lynched with TWO votes... Anyway, I'm not going to waste time getting mad over this. Posting stuff after resolution, hopefully it can wake some of you guys up. Its generally ill advised to post till late in the night, so you can't give the mafia a new target. But if you do it at the last second they likely won't have time to change it and you can safely make whatever case you wish. This way you also make it impossible to analyze why mafia hit the person they did. Good job there... Analyze what? It leads to WIFOM. You make a case against a townie and then they shoot you,that townie is now instant suspect number one. I'm just giving you the explinations I was given when I asked last time why no one was talking at night.
Things to notice:
- Raven does not give out his reads at the end of N1. Seems like he would already know he is not going to get night killed.
- He is trying to stall the discussion. There is no reason why we should not scumhunt on night phases. I never said everyone should scream who is scum before the last hour, there are other things you can do. Like find out who is scum by you know, interacting with people..
---
Other than that, he has done very litte. The only person other than me he has called out (and tbh even talked about so that he reaches some kinda conclusion) is Frorgon. Who flipped green already. He has no real opinions on anyone other than me, and i have already proven them wrong.
##Vote: TheRavensName
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On March 25 2013 22:49 Rainbows wrote:
@Ray
You've been really aggro with your reads. I want your opinion of me this game. Talk with me. The fishgle flip doesn't make either of us look particularly good. A wifom bomb by the mafia perhaps on myself, but I have no idea where it puts you.
What do you think of me, my child? Or, at least, my stance on raven / NW / virtu?
The hit on Fishgle means that either you are mafia or it's WIFOM or mafia is trying to make virtu look better or some combination of those. It's impossible to know at this point so i'd rather not get too much into that.
I think your case on virtu was something to look into after you summed it up. I definitely didn't see virtu in that light before.
Your case on NW now also makes sense. That's a pretty wishy-washy answer from him. I still want to know what has changed now that you find NW more suspicious than virtu? After all all this information was on the table @ the end of D1 and your vote was on virtu then. What has changed?
I don't really know your stance on Raven because i think you have not clearly told it. I just re-read your filter and couldn't find any mention of Raven that says what do you actually think of him besides the comment where you partially agree with me on him. So could you clarify the question?
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@ Rainbows:
On March 26 2013 04:07 Rainbows wrote:
TRN seems like an iffy lynch for today. I think there is scum between virtu and NW if not both. I think the cases on raven are biased... Saying he is scum because he lynched frogon is stupid, and especially coming from NW considering he could have prevented the lynch.
Guy lets frogon get lynched.
Guy blames other guy for lynching frorgon.
Seems, you know, legit.
What's biased about my case on Raven?
@ nobodywonder:
What do you think about the case on virtu? What do you think about JarJar's analysis on the night hit and his vote on you? Where do you think he is wrong and why?
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EPT
