EPTThe Game [N] - Page 16
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
The damn company disconnected our service instead of the neighbors who cancelled. T_T Catching up now. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: @Mr. Wiggles: Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... 1) You haven't really worked towards a pro-town atmosphere. Saying "We need to scumhunt" doesn't do much to make anyone do anything. 2) You hadn't been pushing people (which you pluralized) for reads at that point. You asked one person what they thought of Grey. Asking other people what they think without stating any of your own opinion doesn't tell me anything about you. I already had made a post at that point saying that I didn't like that you were talking about how we need to scumhunt without doing any of it that we could see yourself. The rest of this defense is pretty funny. You're basically trying to deflect attention away from yourself and towards me. I'd made two posts at that point. One saying that I thought you were suspicious, and another following it up when you continued the same behaviour. I don't feel that constitutes tunneling. As well, you say I should focus my efforts on getting people to post. But, that is a fruitless endeavor, as saying "Please post", is unlikely to get anyone to. Instead, presenting my thoughts on scum is more likely to get people to post, as this gives them something to actually talk about. Also, doesn't that go against what you've been saying? Why should I stop poking you (scumhunting), and try to do something useless instead? Lastly, you need to look up what lurking is. I don't see a reason to change up my vote. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 09:27 Wade Fell wrote: There is a possibility he's a smurf of a younger player who hasn't heard of coag, or he literally made his account just before this game started, just to sign up for the last spot. I consider both of these possibilities somewhat unlikely. And, even considering the apparent vacuousness of his vote on coag, he hasn't taken a stance on GK or Geript or really anyone or anything, ignoring all other discussion in town to tunnel his target. This is an easy way for scum to avoid meaningful interaction with town and giving out reads. We don't know anything about his thought-process, so of course it seems WIFOM-ey-- but his play absolutely prevents us from clearing the wine from in front of us. I'm not saying he's a bad scum player-- this is a clever ruse. But he is scum. Town would have an opinion on GK, ESPECIALLY town pushing another lynch. Can this guy really be considered to be "pushing" coag given that he hasn't tried to stop the GK lynch at all? He's putting forth a simulacrum of what a townie does. Clever, but not enough. The thing about this analysis, is that he hasn't done anything at all since he called out Coag. I think it's disingenuous to say he's tunneling Coag when he made a post calling him out, I asked him if he was familiar with his meta, and he freaked out within a short time frame. I agree that I wouldn't say he's pushing Coag, but we don't know if he's just apathetic to pushing it, or he agrees with other cases since he's gone inactive. So I don't really have warm fuzzy feelings about the guy, but I think your case is somewhat misrepresentative, just because he hasn't posted and it's basing things as though he's actually been around to exhibit that behaviour. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
- My second read-through has me agreeing with Kita, Layabout, and MrWiggles' points against GK, that is where my vote is going if my opinion doesn't change after looking into the meta that BH brought up and after reading GK's promised case. - Greymist's lack of recent posting is disturbing. First he says: On March 16 2013 22:28 GreYMisT wrote: First off, fairly busy today, so I'll be more active in around 5 hours. But what does he actually post in his 'active period'? Considering the number of people that find him suspicious, i would think GM would be more inclined to post than he is showing. - I am also suspicious of Zarepath, Vivax, and Ryu. More on them later, I don't want to split my focus too much. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On March 17 2013 11:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote: The thing about this analysis, is that he hasn't done anything at all since he called out Coag. I think it's disingenuous to say he's tunneling Coag when he made a post calling him out, I asked him if he was familiar with his meta, and he freaked out within a short time frame. I agree that I wouldn't say he's pushing Coag, but we don't know if he's just apathetic to pushing it, or he agrees with other cases since he's gone inactive. So I don't really have warm fuzzy feelings about the guy, but I think your case is somewhat misrepresentative, just because he hasn't posted and it's basing things as though he's actually been around to exhibit that behaviour. He stopped posting 2 hours before the first vote on GK went down, but it's been like 18 hours since then. Where is he? He still hasn't weighed in on Geript either, and Geript was under pressure while he was posting in thread. If he comes back, says he's been gone for 18 hours like grooming a chicken or whatever and he has serious thoughts to give, then I may rethink things. But as it stands, simply straight-up lurking and not posting is NOT a defense for his actions. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I think I need to wait for him to post some more to get a more solid read. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
but he is almost certainly a smurf, since the account was created yesterday. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 11:07 Wade Fell wrote: Will your thoughts on him be the same if he's gone for another 6 hours, wiggles? What if he's gone for the rest of the day? I have someone else in mind for the lynch, and then a vig can just get rid of him if possible. He has to post sometime. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On a side note, I'm surprised that TranceStorm's travesty of a first post failed to catch any comments: On March 17 2013 06:34 TranceStorm wrote: It's pretty pointless to be looking at the differences between a player's mafia and town play on Day 1. On Day 1 there is absolutely no reason for mafia members to behave differently than town members! In short, mafia players behave exactly like town players on Day 1: they throw around a few accusations, they might speculate on the different roles available in the game, and they might throw around a few town reads as well. All of this is possible because there is no information available at all. Differences in 'play' arise in the following days when information is revealed and pressure is put on certain players (i.e. when they have to justify their voting decisions in previous rounds). A player's behavior changes as a mafia member when they see their teammates under significant pressure. That's when play analysis comes in, not right now. It's much better to ask people for their beliefs to serve as a record for later rounds to measure for inconsistencies and what not. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
trancestorm is literally wrong and bad. D1 is worthless-- wat? Maybe 2 years ago the last time he played mafia and everyone was bad or something at least he's not pretending to be useful | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
I think SAST is a bad idea because it is a waste of time to be discussing the SAST. Such as right now. You and I are discussing the SAST when instead we could be discussing who is scum. If anyone actually went through with it, pages and pages of filter would inevitably be devoted to debating stupid SAST stuff. I agree with what Wiggles said about TPS. I don't have any strong feelings about TPS's alignment one way or the other. You could just as easily argue that Hyaach is declining to take part in town discussions by not posting at all. But I don't think we should lynch Hyaach. Anyway, I wrote up some thoughts on zarepath and GK. I think both are better lynches than TPS. I'm gonna post them now. DYH I'm interested in your thoughts on zarepath. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
The GK in this game is the town GK that I've coached and observed extensively. He is cautious, posts rarely, and builds up momentum to be a formidable scumhunter. This is not the kinda uncaring, willing-to-make-any--case scum GK that I've seen. He is not a good D1 lynch. He is not a good vigi shot. He is town. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Here is zarepath's first post: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:05 zarepath wrote: In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome  I think this analysis by Hopeless1der is quite accurate: On March 16 2013 23:38 Hopeless1der wrote: Overall, I read through this post and zarepath keeps playing devil's advocate with himself and answering his own questions. There is no mindset of wanting to solve the game to me. I think he's scum. It seems to me that zarepath is trying to say the "right" things but there isn't a lot of heart in it. - claiming town accomplishes nothing - association cases are bad on D1 - sheeping people is dumb - good scumhunters should work together - setup speculation is dumb He rattles off a bunch of generic pro-town advice, but I don't get the feeling that he is actually trying to help town. As Hopeless1der says, there is no drive. On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: As an addendum to my final paragraph, that is why I find Peashooter's opening content to be pretty scummy. Honestly, any player could have gone through and guessed at roles based on the titles (and probably did; I did as I skimmed them), but I think it's hardly worth talking about right now. I echo Wave Fell's sentiments here about Peashooter's likely scumminess. This quote also bothers me. In this quote, he makes it seem like Peashooter is his major suspect. Seems to me that zarepath should be strongly considering a Peashooter lynch. But the rest of his filter seems very inconsistent with this original stance on Peashooter. Zarepath originally lumped Peashooter in with VE, Coag, and myself, all of whom he gave pretty weak reasons (IMO) for "keeping an eye on". Peashooter has made more posts and been discussed at length in the thread subsequent to Zarepath's original comments. Wade Fell recently tried to start a wagon on Peashooter. Zarepath did not hop on the wagon. He has not even commented on it. He just picked some holes in cosmicomics' relatively unimportant and unpopular case on DP. Zarepath has not commented on the potential GK or Peashooter wagons despite being in the thread. In summary, my reasons for thinking Zarepath is mafia are: - he uses a silly heuristic (claimed town) to add two people to his watch-list - he seems to be reaching for things to say in his first post and his heart doesn't seem in it - his original stance on Peashooter is distintcly inconsistent with his later actions (or lack thereof) - he is choosing to comment on the DP case when there are much more important wagons (peashooter and GK) - the fact that he's been in the thread a long time and hasn't started promoting any lynch Based on the evidence so far, I think Zarepath would be a good lynch, but there are a few other filters I still want to look into. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
"oh bh are you soft defending zarepath" well admittedly yes, this is a soft defense. I don't have a townread on him. But he is playing recklessly and thoughtlessly, much like a poorly-thought-out town play. I can't let that lie. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On March 17 2013 11:35 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah okay zarepath is playing like shit in terms of his reasons for finding people scummy, and is utterly inconsistent. It smacks of a new scum player being coached, backtracking his thoughts, and generally being muddled. I also don't like that he hasn't weighed in seriously on the main wagons. That being said, this seems to me to also smack of "townie who thinks he knows what he's doing but is literally bad". I feel an urge lynch him for reasons similar to the reasons I want to lynch TPS, but he smells like a mislynch. He is ineffective and bad, but he has no fear of calling people out. This reveals imo a town mindset, albeit that of a bad townie. "oh bh are you soft defending zarepath" well admittedly yes, this is a soft defense. I don't have a townread on him. But he is playing recklessly and thoughtlessly, much like a poorly-thought-out town play. I can't let that lie. | ||
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