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On March 09 2013 06:05 Frorgon wrote:
@nobodywonder I explained earlier that I was going to wait and see how bad certain people were lurking. My policy early on was to go after blatant scummy behavior over lurking on the first day. But you've done better in explaining yourself in the past few hours whereas bduddy has been nowhere to be seen. Basically I didn't want to jump to rash decisions. I hope to explain myself too.
You may have a better chance of affecting the vote by changing it off him. Theres more popular people competing for first blood.
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On March 09 2013 06:15 Arctic Daishi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:10 Frorgon wrote:
@Arctic What about Omni's case is so "great"? The claim that I have contributed the least? Because I'm pretty sure you've contributed less than me. Seems pretty easy for you to just sit back and buddy up with people without at least explaining why you like their case so much. In this post: Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 06:29 Frorgon wrote:
@OmniEulogy I'm wondering why you asked me about what I thought was suspicious behavior. I clearly explained that in my initial post about the matter. It made me a bit uneasy about whether or not you were trying to get redundant information posted to cloud up the thread. As Wave said, the amount of posts you had started to raise a red flag for me. And don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily the amount of posts you had that was bad, it was that you seemed to be drowning the thread for a while with just your thoughts and limited discussion from others. That being said, I feel better about your contributions in the past few pages since other people have shown up. You seemed rather hostile against Omni, who was very active in investigating people. Perhaps to stop his investigation?
You were asked to expand on why you like Omni's case. You didn't. You just copied Frorgon's posts and posted a single line attempting to accuse him. Why do you like Omni's case?
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On March 09 2013 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well here's a problem I see. I don't want NW lynched today but since all of the lurkers have piled on top of him, he's currently going to die in 3.5 hours. Since they're lurkers we can't necessarily expect them to come back and change their votes. We're going to have to consolidate our votes to ONE other person to make sure that if there are more scum among the active posters than lurkers, they can't come back and hammer the vote in on NW.
I'm not sold on Taco yet, and I would like to lynch Daishi as of now, though I might consider Chew. Thoughts, active (hopefully) townies?
I agree that Daishi is a pretty vibrant target. I was going to favor Chew over him until his more recent attempts to return to reactivity, given hes just jumping on a bandwaggon and not making an explination for himself before vanishing again.... However, I don't want to see NW lynched anymore either, and given that chew is much closer to lynching, I'm tempted to leave my vote on him untill we get a majority set on daishi. I'm going to say Daishi in particular over someone like Luneth or Frorgon, I don't think theres enough to go after either of them and be sure anyways....
Side note about Arctic, I do love that he is the last person on the vote for every vote hes ever casted, and peels off as soon as another band wagon seems good enough.
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On March 09 2013 06:46 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:43 TheRavensName wrote:On March 09 2013 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well here's a problem I see. I don't want NW lynched today but since all of the lurkers have piled on top of him, he's currently going to die in 3.5 hours. Since they're lurkers we can't necessarily expect them to come back and change their votes. We're going to have to consolidate our votes to ONE other person to make sure that if there are more scum among the active posters than lurkers, they can't come back and hammer the vote in on NW.
I'm not sold on Taco yet, and I would like to lynch Daishi as of now, though I might consider Chew. Thoughts, active (hopefully) townies? I agree that Daishi is a pretty vibrant target. I was going to favor Chew over him until his more recent attempts to return to reactivity, given hes just jumping on a bandwaggon and not making an explination for himself before vanishing again.... However, I don't want to see NW lynched anymore either, and given that chew is much closer to lynching, I'm tempted to leave my vote on him untill we get a majority set on daishi. I'm going to say Daishi in particular over someone like Luneth or Frorgon, I don't think theres enough to go after either of them and be sure anyways.... Side note about Arctic, I do love that he is the last person on the vote for every vote hes ever casted, and peels off as soon as another band wagon seems good enough. Could you look over my case on Taco and see what you think  I want to nail this S.O.B over NW or Arctic if we can but I'm going to need the majority of us to consolidate in order to do that. I believe you have it right here "I'm going to say Daishi in particular over someone like Luneth or Frorgon, I don't think theres enough to go after either of them and be sure anyways...." But is Arctic really that much of a larger scum read? I'd wager no. They all seem scummy but the lurkers CAN'T all be scum.
Well thats true, but most of the lurkers have redeaming qualities or have at least attempted to make cases. I haven't shot recently at bduddy, rainbow, or Krafia for that reason. They haven't done anything either way. But Arctic will post one line for a vote once someone has made a case, then change it at the next case once the previous wagon is losing steam. And when people ask him for extra information he'll just disappear again. That seems scummy to me, or at least a bad enough town it would do some serriousy damage.
At least meatless has had some good points, as you pointed out in your first analysis. I don't see his vote on Chew as hypocritical or scummy. He just has an issue with chew making the excuse that could easily be pointed back at him when it comes to NW. I think his obsession with votes is a good thing, it shows he wanted people to be active and scum hunting based off those early votes. I don't like that hes been lurking lately but I think hes more grey then red.
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On March 09 2013 06:58 Frorgon wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: MeatlessTaco
I am going to take a stand now to see if we can get more people onboard. I think nobodywonder does make a good point that we don't gain much information from lynching Arctic D1. I do find it curious that Meatless has disappeared after getting everyone to antagonize NW, maybe thinking that his job was done for the day. Lets see if he can defend himself.
If we Lynch Arctic and he comes up Red though, we get a good deal out of it. Especially sense Meatless was pushing for us to forget about him cause he would just be replaced.
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##unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi
Just going to change this while its on my mind. I'm pretty certain now hes a much better hit then Chew, but I'm not entirerly convined on Meatless for the reasons I've suggested already. But... lets see what he can give us to confirm this indifferance or change it to guilt now that hes here.
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Just going to toss it out there. That seemed a little early to be expecting a replacement on arctic when there was only a single vote for arctic. He acted like we were going to accidently lynch him. But that'll be the end of this for now.
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On March 09 2013 07:27 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 07:22 TheRavensName wrote:
Just going to toss it out there. That seemed a little early to be expecting a replacement on arctic when there was only a single vote for arctic. He acted like we were going to accidently lynch him. But that'll be the end of this for now. You're right, and I want to see Taco comment on this. On March 09 2013 07:22 OmniEulogy wrote:
if Arctic is scum and you guys nail him, it's fantastic but I'm still wondering how he is different from the other lurkers like bduddy. If we just talk about Arctic being lynched and flipping scum, the only thing we gain is scum being down by 1 which is huge for D1 don't get me wrong but his absence means we don't learn much else from it. My question to him at that point was the best I could do, he literally had 0 posts to his name, and all the questions were more aimed towards seeing peoples reactions to me asking them, and how people felt about Luneth as opposed to Arctic (who wasn't even a subject of conversation at that point).
I guess if I look at it from a point that Arctic wouldn't vote on his own scum buddies, we might be able to clear the people he's voted on as being town? Although even that is a shot in the dark. Did you read Taco's post? Or Raven's last few? We have plenty to learn. Daishi is goin' downnnnnnnnnn I really want to avoid trying to make a link between Arctic and Taco till after the flip. And if Arctic flips town I'm going to be kicking myself for not being able to persuade people to vote Taco, however I don't want to see NW lynched... I don't disagree that Arctic looks scummy, I just think Taco looks worse.
Well can you explain to me what we learn if Taco flips town?
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On March 09 2013 07:34 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:29 TheRavensName wrote:On March 09 2013 07:27 OmniEulogy wrote:On March 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 07:22 TheRavensName wrote:
Just going to toss it out there. That seemed a little early to be expecting a replacement on arctic when there was only a single vote for arctic. He acted like we were going to accidently lynch him. But that'll be the end of this for now. You're right, and I want to see Taco comment on this. On March 09 2013 07:22 OmniEulogy wrote:
if Arctic is scum and you guys nail him, it's fantastic but I'm still wondering how he is different from the other lurkers like bduddy. If we just talk about Arctic being lynched and flipping scum, the only thing we gain is scum being down by 1 which is huge for D1 don't get me wrong but his absence means we don't learn much else from it. My question to him at that point was the best I could do, he literally had 0 posts to his name, and all the questions were more aimed towards seeing peoples reactions to me asking them, and how people felt about Luneth as opposed to Arctic (who wasn't even a subject of conversation at that point).
I guess if I look at it from a point that Arctic wouldn't vote on his own scum buddies, we might be able to clear the people he's voted on as being town? Although even that is a shot in the dark. Did you read Taco's post? Or Raven's last few? We have plenty to learn. Daishi is goin' downnnnnnnnnn I really want to avoid trying to make a link between Arctic and Taco till after the flip. And if Arctic flips town I'm going to be kicking myself for not being able to persuade people to vote Taco, however I don't want to see NW lynched... I don't disagree that Arctic looks scummy, I just think Taco looks worse. Well can you explain to me what we learn if Taco flips town? that I'm an idiot and can't read people. I believe he's scum but I'm willing to consolidate on Arctic to save NW for D1.
Ha. So the gains either way are subjective at best.
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On March 09 2013 07:33 MeatlessTaco wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 06:20 OmniEulogy wrote:On March 09 2013 05:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
@Omni your cases so far have been solid, can you expand on your thoughts on MeatlessTaco? I agree he has been very aggressive in his posting though the only real scummy thing I've seen from him is the sheep vote onto Chew.
Also what are your thoughts regarding the rest of the lurkers today? There are quite a few of them (Matriarch, Daishi, Luneth probably the worst offenders) and it's going to be very difficult to determine what to do with them once the day is over. Hmm not sure what else to say about Taco... well actually I'll go the other way, I think I've covered pretty much everything he's done that seems to go against town, but he was right when he said you have to suspect everybody in one of his first posts. On March 08 2013 08:46 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 07:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
...
MeatlessTaco: Aggressively enters the thread makes a couple early game cases and leaves. Who is your top scumread right now and why? (I refuse to believe it's NW just because you voted him)
... I wanted to pounce on Raven, his initial exuberance 10 min before game starts and then lurks for a long time like he's getting help from his scum mentor. Since then, he hasn't done enough to move my suspicion. There is no instant lynch. My vote means who I suspect right now. I felt that this was a good post, generally people who have decent activity before a game starts and then disappear as soon as it starts deserve to be looked at more closely. At the same time going back to odd actions from him we also have things like this On March 08 2013 08:55 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 07:34 Krafla wrote:
What I wanted to add was it seemed like people only started to consider NW once MeatlessTaco went after him, and I was going to wonder out loud if MeatlessTaco ..
Everything starts somewhere. If my analysis was poor, argue that. Don't argue that I made an argument that caught on so that is bad. It's a good thing if an argument gets some traction. On March 08 2013 07:34 Krafla wrote:
And now the same thing has happened again and Matriarch has posted throwing doubt on Meatless just before I hit send, ohwell, I'm going to leave it here!
Let's hear Krafla's and Matriarch's reasoning behind suspecting me. I understand NobodyWonder hasn't said a lot, neither have I or you. We do what we can with very limited information. Make a case, but don't point fingers at me without a case better than "he made an argument that someone else agreed with". He didn't actually make a case... did he forget? It was a joke vote that stuck and other people attacked NW. There was no case from Taco. On March 08 2013 08:58 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 08:53 nobodywonder wrote:
...I'd still say if I can't find concrete proof of scum, then I would just get rid of the scummiest lurker...
Isn't that kind of a high bar for day 1? Isn't that the exact job town is trying to do? On March 08 2013 14:56 MeatlessTaco wrote:
No vote: OmniEulogy, Krafla, TheRavensName, Arctic Daishi, bduddy, Matriarch, Frorgon, WaveofShadows
You all need to make a stand. Are you going to let marines kills our broodlings one by one? Vote and make a case. Again from somebody who hasn't actually made a single case all game this seems really REALLY bad... looking through his filter and doing this again... I'm actually going to move Taco to my scum list. ##Unvote##Vote: MeatlessTacoI believe this case is Much stronger than my case on Frorgon and am changing my vote for that reason. What does everybody else make of this case on Taco? In fact... I am going to push for Taco's Lynch, I expect anybody who wants to hit scum to jump on this train, The Wagon of Justice has arrived. + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2013 04:49 OmniEulogy wrote:I'm also quite worried about Taco. His actions so far are a mixture of scum/town so I can't get a good read on him. We have his opening joke vote, which alone I have no problem with Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 14:47 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 14:06 WaveofShadow wrote:My GOD this thread is exciting.  On March 07 2013 14:17 nobodywonder wrote:
woo! ~ exciting game Nobody's only post is sheeping the experienced guy adding no new content of his own? Now you can lurk and say "I would have contributed if the game were more exciting?" That seems pretty anti-town to me. ##Vote: nobodywonder Now it's more exciting. However we do end up sticking on NW through pressure of other people so he never actually has to vote. He uses this as an excuse to pressure others to place votes on people when he himself never actually made a serious vote. Keep in mind how early in the game these posts are. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 15:49 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Matriarch / Krafla:
If I held a gun to you head noose around your neck and made you pick someone to lynch instead of yourself, who would it be?
Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 17:05 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 17:01 Krafla wrote:On March 07 2013 15:49 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Matriarch / Krafla:
If I held a gun to you head noose around your neck and made you pick someone to lynch instead of yourself, who would it be?
Point taken, I guess I'd have to pick someone randomly, so probably someone that hasn't posted yet, Arctic Daishi?! Why are you afraid to take a position? Are you going to vote for Arctic Daishi or just write his name with a question mark? I feel that Krafla here was trying to apply pressure the Arctic who had yet said anything at all but Taco tries to pressure him to vote for somebody who hasn't said a single word so far? that's sketchy so early on in the game. Makes it seem like he doesn't care who is voting for who. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 17:13 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 17:08 Krafla wrote:On March 07 2013 17:05 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 07 2013 17:01 Krafla wrote:On March 07 2013 15:49 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Matriarch / Krafla:
If I held a gun to you head noose around your neck and made you pick someone to lynch instead of yourself, who would it be?
Point taken, I guess I'd have to pick someone randomly, so probably someone that hasn't posted yet, Arctic Daishi?! Why are you afraid to take a position? Are you going to vote for Arctic Daishi or just write his name with a question mark? Nope, I'm not going to vote yet, I want to make an educated decision of who to vote for instead of flinging dirt and seeing what sticks Take a stand. Are you going to side with me trying to lynch someone acting suspicious or side with nobodywonder trying to lynch a lurker who can't defend themselves? This is TL Mafia which is serious stuff. You aren't allowed to be Switzerland. Again goes after Krafla early on, Why is Taco so obsessed with getting people to vote? The game isn't even through the first 24 hours. Town doesn't need to throw votes out so quickly, they need to think about their actions as Krafla is doing. This raises more questions about how much Taco actually cares who gets lynched. And then we have these back-to-back posts. Holy Shit Hypocrisy. Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:35 MeatlessTaco wrote:On March 08 2013 03:08 ChewOnStu wrote:
Im finding nobodywonder scummy too for complaining about lurkers not contributing yet he's barely contributed anything himself.
##vote: nobodywonder
... Why are you bandwagoning on NW while your only contribution is couple of trite posts about your lurker policy? Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 14:06 MeatlessTaco wrote:
You are right. His behavior is unacceptable so far. You got anything to add Chew?
##Vote: ChewOnStu His FIRST real vote is a complete sheep with nothing to add about why Chew is scum. Does he really care who gets lynched? This doesn't take away from the good points he's made and some of his questions have been really good... but the inconsistency is there. ^ My original look through his filter. Shit just got real... I didn't expect that... Yeah, I forgot I had never made a case against NW, he had only 2 posts or something at that point. He defended himself poorly, but eventually my read was that he was making an honest effort. Chew's behavior was unacceptable, you can't let someone float through 2 days of discussion, put down a vote and avoid scrutiny. I stand by the concrete proof statement. All our scum reads aren't 100%. Being unhelpful to town has to still be a factor. Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:00 TheRavensName wrote:On March 09 2013 06:58 Frorgon wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: MeatlessTaco
I am going to take a stand now to see if we can get more people onboard. I think nobodywonder does make a good point that we don't gain much information from lynching Arctic D1. I do find it curious that Meatless has disappeared after getting everyone to antagonize NW, maybe thinking that his job was done for the day. Lets see if he can defend himself. If we Lynch Arctic and he comes up Red though, we get a good deal out of it. Especially sense Meatless was pushing for us to forget about him cause he would just be replaced. I didn't want the copout available: vote for the guy who hasn't posted yet. I never considered the possibility that he would de-lurk. Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 07:22 TheRavensName wrote:
Just going to toss it out there. That seemed a little early to be expecting a replacement on arctic when there was only a single vote for arctic. He acted like we were going to accidently lynch him. But that'll be the end of this for now. You're right, and I want to see Taco comment on this. As for the criticisms against me: they are correct. I've been hoping that it I prodded everyone into action I would be able to have a ton on information for the Day 1 lynch. In this post in particular, I didn't want someone to vote Daishi and say "I'm pressuring a lurker, see I'm helping". It has been my strategy that votes are the best way to pressure people and force people to take a position. In doing this, I was hugely hypocritical, because I didn't take too many positions myself. Honestly, I never thought the whole NW thing to take off. I was waiting to strike on Raven and asked the mentor about it, but Raven's return didn't give me anything to be suspicious and NW was digging himself a hole. I also assumed ( like 30 min ago while re-reading thread when I made that post), activity wise, that Frogron or Chew would be lynched.
All well and good but... do you have a new case or are you sticking with your cop out mr Taco? Your post in this way basically makes you sound more like a caught red trying to make excuses. I mean you said yourself that your a hypocrit, which is about as close to a liar your going to get in mafia this early in without a fake role claim.
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On March 09 2013 07:48 MLuneth wrote:
My vote in NW stays the same because there has still been no coherent defence to tell me why NW is not scum.
I agree that other players are looking very suspicious too but I'm more confident that NW is scum than they are
I think the issue isn't so much NW's defence in that other cases are just better at this point in time, given NW's case was the first major one made and it was made very early. Its given a lot of light onto other people.
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On March 09 2013 07:51 MLuneth wrote:+ Show Spoiler +bduddy pointed you out soft defending Daishi. You keep saying we'd learn nothing if he flipped? Well we might learn something about you. We'd certainly also learn something about his voting patterns and we might be able to figure out if the people he was bandwagoning were scum or not. Who was this directed at?
I believe it was said this was Omni.
Now the issue with this line of thinking is, Omni has not accused anyone Arctic has jumped on until the one against Frorgon, and quite a few people had similar reactions until it was read over about a dozen times.
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On March 09 2013 07:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hey you know who's flown under the radar since the thread picked up and wasn't one of my original lurkers?
Rainbows.
I liked his play early game and if he shows up he may be able to help us decide one way or another.
I was hoping he'd show up actually. I was getting nervous about that but theres so many other lurkers, I guess I forgot about forgetting about him. Actually makes me really uncomfortable that someone would be supremly aggressive and then not show up for a while.
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On March 09 2013 08:04 bduddy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:59 TheRavensName wrote:On March 09 2013 07:51 MLuneth wrote:+ Show Spoiler +bduddy pointed you out soft defending Daishi. You keep saying we'd learn nothing if he flipped? Well we might learn something about you. We'd certainly also learn something about his voting patterns and we might be able to figure out if the people he was bandwagoning were scum or not. Who was this directed at? I believe it was said this was Omni. Now the issue with this line of thinking is, Omni has not accused anyone Arctic has jumped on until the one against Frorgon, and quite a few people had similar reactions until it was read over about a dozen times. At this point I wouldn't say that scum would necessarily work together to try to lynch a specific person. What they would definitely try to do is try to deflect voting of other scum, because at this point that's a lot more necessarily for them and, if done properly, less suspicious. I stand by what I said earlier that OE especially has been trying to do that with Arctic, and I don't see anything nobodywonder has done that makes him more suspicious. What happens if the vote is a tie?
Says in the op the first person to get those votes wins.
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On March 09 2013 08:08 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well it's too late now to worry about Rainbows' scumminess right now we can't afford to spread ourselves out any thinner. I personally hope he shows up to give further insight but if not we're really going to have a good look at him soon too.
We REALLY need vote consolidation from the following people:
MeatlessTaco, Arctic Daishi, Rainbows, ChewonStu, Luneth, Matriarch, Krafla. NW can vote to save his ass well.. tie on Arctic and I've already said I'll switch if I can't convince people to lynch Taco, but I've still got 2 hours to see if I can do it. As you yourself said, even his defense dabbles in scum MO. I don't understand how we aren't lynching this guy today.
Because hes just dabbled in it as opposed to reeking of it.
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On March 09 2013 08:13 Mocsta wrote:From OP:
In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses).
Yay for winning death.
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Going to get food, be back in twenty.
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Arctic, your being lynched because you only show up to vote on band wagons and when asked for opinions or reasons you never respond to them. That makes you incredibly scummy. Even if it your not scum, if your going to jump on evey band wagon thats a liability later in if the scum starts one up. You have to be able to think for yourself and not really on others if you can help it in Mafia, and your not doing a good job of showing you can do that. You've even shown that up until now you haven't been reading the thread all that well if at all.
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On March 09 2013 09:59 Arctic Daishi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Lol well if true it was a valiant attempt with half an hour to go to try and get your innocence going.
Hopefully you learn a little for next time! Thanks, I thought the mention of Promethelax was particularly witty.
Well considering the rules say not to mention coaching, I would have said it was a poor choice.
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On March 09 2013 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote:I would like to take FULL credit for this as I got the bandwagon going. + Show Spoiler +Just kidding, well done everyone! Huge props specifically to TRN for his support too, this basically makes him confirmed town in my eyes.
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT![[image loading]](http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2648/3934157120_7e00c3207a_z.jpg)
