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I still want to see Snarfs on the duel team tomorrow. Adam thinks that both Dieno defenders on Day 1 are scum, but that seems a bit too optimistic.
As for Snarfs, he basically never mentions Dieno at all in his filter. The one time he does, it's a random passing comment:
On February 26 2013 07:40 Snarfs wrote:As of now, I'd support a Keirathi/Hapa duel. I need to read more from thrawn as it's still just a weird feeling about him, nothing concrete. I haven't read yamato's case on him yet, it was a bit too long and I didn't have time. I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv: Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote:
Holy thread explosion, Batman.
Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 02:43 marvellosity wrote:On February 26 2013 02:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
as town he'd be a good player to pick the main lynch candidate. if he's not town then we can lynch him instead thrawn, this is all weak as shit. iamp was your scumread and then you were possibly suspicious of Acro, and now you randomly want to have Hapa call a duel? Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other?
...After which we get no mention of Dieno until the Day 2 duel. He does express support for a Kei duel, HOWEVER it's notable that he doesn't show any real commitment to the idea. He never pushes it, and he even expresses some support to see Thrawn on the Day 1 duel:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=30#587
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=30#589
In fact now that I look at Snarfs filter in more detail, his Day 1 duel is also marred by non-commitments.
He starts off with this "say-nothing" diplomatic stance on the duel, keeping his options open:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=42#832
Somewhat early on, he does express support for voting Kei, but notably doesn't make a committment:
On February 27 2013 04:59 Snarfs wrote:
Consider this a vote for Keirathi. I'm not going to be pressured into pushing us closer to a lynch when we need the time. I don't particularly trust everyone else to "stall for time".
Only when some other players (notably Acro) start aggressively pushing the idea of Kei = scum, does he finally go and vote Kei:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=51#1013
Since then, he's pretty much done nothing of value.
So tl;dr, Snarfs has done very little and has been extremely non-committal. I gave him some townie-points for his stance on Kei earlier, but he never really committed to anything and left his options open until pressured by other players.
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Anyway it's 3am. Weeeee.
Reply to my post above when you can Snarfs. I'll be filter diving Yamato, Zare, and Acro tomorrow to see if I can find duelist #2.
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Anyway Yamato, this whole "HAPA IS MAFIA OMG" is nearly identical to the shit you pulled in British Mini Mafia.
You were Mafia, and suddenly a switch snapped and you were foaming out of the mouth that Mr.Cheesecake was scum beyond all rationality.
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Anyway I'm more than happy to see Yamato on the duel-ballot tomorrow on the basis that he started his tirade on me ~36 hours ago with a random 1-lined comment:
On March 02 2013 01:01 yamato77 wrote:
##Vote Dienosore
You guys are most likely right about him, and I feel like Sylencia is most likely town of the two. While lurky and useless is Syl's town meta, it is not Dieno's so he can die.
As a side note I'm pretty sure Hapa is mafia, now, and much less sure of Acro.
And we've still heard nothing substantial on the subject.
In addition, his whole "I'MMA GOIN TO DUEL HAPA" stance is absurd given how he was attacking Adam for much the same behavior earlier in the game. He nearly lynched Adam for Adam's rushed duel, has been extolling patience as a virtue when dueling, and all of a sudden wants blood.
This lack of patience was also something he did in British Mini Mafia (as Mafia), where he talked up being patient in policy-talk (regarding hammers in instant-lynch majority games), then rushed a hammer against a townie on Day 1.
Combine all of this with Thrawn's post last night...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=89#1780
... and Yamato has a pretty good chance of flipping scum.
Gonna look into Zapa/Acro, and re-look into Snarfs.
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I haven't changed my mind on either. I still think Syl is town, given how fast Dieno pulled the trigger on him.
As for Cora, I talked about him last night no? I just can't see Mafia taking such a controversial stance with the town on the Dieno/Syl duel. It seems pretty clear that Dieno was bussed, and unless Cora didn't get the memo, he's probably town.
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On March 03 2013 09:21 Acrofales wrote:
Hapa, your stance on Syl has been far from clear. The last time you gave your opinion on Syl you wanted to double-lynch and were happily leaning scum on Syl. How can you say your read hasn't changed?
Yeah I wanted Syl dead, then was away from the thread for half a day. I came back, caught up, and found myself agreeing with Adam. Though by that point, the hammer already dropped.
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It's the easiest thing in the world ever to build a town case on someone. That definitely doenst' make Yamato town.
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Well some read-updates of my own.
I will say that I agree with Snarfs on Acro, but for different reasons. That Dieno town-read looked strange to me as well. HOWEVER, I just can't reconcile the rest of his behavior with scum. Acro has a 15 page filter at the end of Day 2. That's nuts. That's too active for mafia standards methinks. And it's not just random spam... he questions people and seems legitimately interested in the game. If he's mafia, well played to him, but I just don't see it.
I read a couple of Acro's mafia games, and I've never seen a similar level of activity. I've never seen a super-active player flip mafia, and I don't think Acro's a good bet here.
As for Snarfs - I managed to read through his Nomination Mafia game. He does act a tad more passive in that game, but I haven't seen anything in this game that's noticably different. Snarfs hasn't been all too active, but it looks like he's around more right now, and I'd like to see what he has to say for tomorrow.
The one thing that's really in his favor is that he was on Kei early, and it might be best to take that at face value. Downgrading him to null for now.
I only managed a quick readthrough of Zape's filter, and the major thing I got was him being completely AWOL from the thread as of late. I wouldn't mind seeing him duel just on that basis, because the rest of his filter is pretty "meh." He did have a huge fight with Acro about the double lynch (which I saw as townie at one point), but that aggression hasn't been present anywhere else in his filter.
Yamato+Zape duel sounds good for tomorrow.
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'Mornin all. Let's get crackin.
Regarding the Yamato Case
His case is based on three things:
1) My "Uncommittal" Stance on the Day 1 Duel
2) A "Strange" Quote about the Dieno Duel
3) My lack of presence during the Day 2 Duel
1) My "Uncommittal" Stance on the Day 1 Duel
Basically Yamato cherry-picks one of my quotes and points fingers that I was uncommittal about the Day 1 Duel. This is complete garbage.
For one, it was very clear that I was committed to voting Kei. Why? Because I was CONVINCED that Adam was town because of his dueling actions. There are many posts in which I make very clear that I had zero intention of voting Adam. A couple of examples:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=38#748
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=39#780
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=40#783
Yamato thinks that because I didn't pick an arbitrary scumread from the two, I was non-committal. That's bullshit - I had strong feelings that Adam was town from the outset of the duel, and if that's not "committal" I don't know what is. Yet Yamato cherry-picked one of my quotes and thinks it's possible that "scum-Hapa" IMMEDIATELY took a stance that would have forced "scum-Hapa" to lynch his scum-buddy.
2) A "Strange" Quote about the Dieno Duel
Yamato thinks this quote is suspicious...
On March 01 2013 09:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected.
Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town.
...because it "seems" planned.
Response:
lol
3) My lack of presence during the Day 2 Duel
He's right about though, I wasn't home for most of Day 2 and didn't get the chance to comment much on it.
However, Yamato once again has to explain how Dieno was my scumread on Day 0. Spoilered below for your convenience:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=26#514
+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:... My other scumread outside of the above is Dienosaur. He's been far less active than I remembered him being in Chrono Trigger Mafia. In addition: 1) His response to Adam's case feels very very forced:Show nested quote +nformation is power in this game, so I didn't really expect a detailed answer to my question. I went fishing and came up empty, big deal. I'll continue fishing until I get a bite.
As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now.
Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town.
Bring it on. When Adam calls him out, he's super-confrontational to the max, and wants to create this glorious showdown between him and Adam. However when Adam slightly backs down: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote:On February 25 2013 12:48 Adam4167 wrote:
You can still change my mind, I am not a tunnel machine. I pull out of shit tunnels all the time, as I did with GoodKarma in Chrono or SacredSystem in a newbie I subbed into with Zarepath months ago.
You are right, we have more than enough time to deliberate, I am making my intentions known now so we can discuss it at depth.
You want to change my mind? Go find scum. I'd like to think Ill know pretty quickly if what you're posting is genuine or piffle.
Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly.Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though. The bolded is what gets me. If he thinks Adam is scum (previous quote), why should he give a shit what Adam thinks? In addition, it's a huge emotional 180 from someone who wanted nothing but confrontation only 1 post ago. 2) His "Map"I remember him drawing a Map in Chrono Trigger (as town), but this one feels different. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#343He draws his map here, but doesn't offer any actual reads until Yamato prods him for it. He then offers a bunch of completely noncommittal reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#345
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And I think it's really clear from Yamato's "duel" antics here that he's simply not interested in finding out my alignment.
He called me scum over 48 hours ago, promising all the way to provide a case against me. Since then, he's never given me an opportunity to explain myself, never asked me a single question, and has never attempted to interact with me.
Then last night, he plops a case down at 5am and pulls the Duel trigger.
That's not a town thought process, much less a town-Yamato thought process.
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On March 04 2013 05:27 yamato77 wrote:
You forgot to mention the part where you first defended Deino n0.
WHAT NOW BITCH
Yes because things in the early hours of Day 0 are totally alignment indicative.
And once again, I was very clear about my desire to see Dieno in a duel on Day 1.
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Fuckin... THRAWN/Snarfs.
Can't even read my own filter.
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On March 04 2013 05:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 05:21 Hapahauli wrote:
And I think it's really clear from Yamato's "duel" antics here that he's simply not interested in finding out my alignment.
He called me scum over 48 hours ago, promising all the way to provide a case against me. Since then, he's never given me an opportunity to explain myself, never asked me a single question, and has never attempted to interact with me.
Then last night, he plops a case down at 5am and pulls the Duel trigger.
That's not a town thought process, much less a town-Yamato thought process.
As you recommended, I have read over British Empire... and I don't see the same aggressive Yamato as I see here. Yamato seems far more involved here. I also still don't see a reason for him to duel you if he's scum, let alone get all triggerhappy about it. Can someone give me a scum explanation for this? ...
The first few pages of that game were his first scum-game. Then he started getting SUPER aggressive when he got comfortable. Started about Page 3-4 of his filter (when he starts going after Mr.Cheesecake and calling everyone else stupid).
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On March 04 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote:
Was @ Acro
Also, your read on Deino was right and mine wrong, so there's that, too.
I'm pretty sure Acro defending Dieno early on.
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On March 04 2013 05:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 05:53 Hapahauli wrote:On March 04 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote:
Was @ Acro
Also, your read on Deino was right and mine wrong, so there's that, too. I'm pretty sure Acro defending Dieno early on. He's talking about my read when he was making his giant case on me.
Yeah, but even if so, where was Yamato's read on Dieno "wrong?" This quote comes to mind:
On March 01 2013 01:41 yamato77 wrote:
Dieno might well be mafia, too, but I want Acro dead first.
I don't see where he calls Dieno town or even townie.
The closest thing I found was this:
If you think Dieno is mafia, I want more detailed analysis from you on the subject. I played a part in lynching him in Parallel when he was fairly useless as town, and barely scumhunted at all. I see very little difference between his play that game and this game.
And that's not even a stance, given that he turns around 30 minutes later and starts leaning scum on Dieno:
On March 01 2013 05:26 yamato77 wrote:
Hm.
You may be right on Dieno
I reread his igrok filter from Parallel, and it seems he is far from useless there.
We shall see.
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While I don't mind more discussion going on, that post is complete nonsense Acro.
I decided that I cannot make much sense of Yamato scum. His D1 play is just too aggressive. He pushes the whole macho-man idea aggressively, gets in a stupid shouting match with Cora and does lots of other insane stuff. He is way too aggressive at me too, but doesn't get stuck in a tunnel like in BEM and is willing to back down off his reads.
Yamato is an aggressive, spazzy personality regardless of alignment. You seem to think that him backing down from reads is indicative of him being town, but I haven't seen anything from those actions that shows off a town mentality. Off the top of my head, these are some of his tunnels this game:
1) Wants Kei dead. Then when Adam duels Kei, completely forgets about Kei to tunnel Adam. Only drops his tunnel on Adam when it's very clear that Kei was going to get lynched.
2) Wants you (Acro) dueled on Day 2. Completely batshit convinced that you're scum. Softpushes Dieno repeatedly:
On March 01 2013 01:41 yamato77 wrote:
Dieno might well be mafia, too, but I want Acro dead first.
Somewhat sticks up for Dieno once:
If you think Dieno is mafia, I want more detailed analysis from you on the subject. I played a part in lynching him in Parallel when he was fairly useless as town, and barely scumhunted at all. I see very little difference between his play that game and this game.
...Then "derp whoops now that I read his filter in Parallel again, it's not what I think it was!"
On March 01 2013 05:26 yamato77 wrote:
Hm.
You may be right on Dieno
I reread his igrok filter from Parallel, and it seems he is far from useless there.
We shall see.
3) Wants me (Hapa) dead. Starts off on it 48 hours ago, and never comes up with a case or gives me an opportunity to respond to whatever his suspicions were. Then accuses the town of being "lazy" as one of the stated motivations for his duel. There is a contradiction here, do you see it?
I believe it's possible scum Hapa has been playing the long game. He identified early that Dieno was playing terribly and got on the bus. He then identified early that he wouldn't be able to save Keirathi with Keirathi's commitment and playing level, when Adam dueled him.
It is also possible that I'm a pink unicorn with butterfly wings.
Just because something is "possible" doesn't mean that you should dismiss the entire argument that my actions make no sense from a scum perspective. How likely is it that I did what I did as scum?
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EPT
