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On February 26 2013 08:46 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 08:34 Hapahauli wrote:On February 26 2013 08:28 Acrofales wrote:
Keir had time to pop in and say "hai gaiz, I'm town", then bugger off for 15 hours, say he was reading the thread, and ask a pointless question. The only motivation I can see for this behaviour is to say "dudes, I'm in the game and doing stuff", which is behaviour I associate with scums. I can associate that with being busy as well. Anywho, I don't want to defend Kei - he can speak in his own defense whenever he gets back from whatever he's up to. So reading your "goodbye" post, we're on opposite sides of the fence on Dienosaur. What do you think of my comments on him, particularly his attitude towards Adam? You haven't bothered to explain yourself. Honestly, I feel Dieno is way too easy a mislynch. Could he be scum for his rather erratic play? Sure, but I think he is playing to his town meta. I also think he is lynchbait and that makes me even more hesitant about lynching him. I think the map seems similar to his maps in other games and am willing to give him some time to develop it. If he never steps up his play, then I will be harder on him. Given what I think of thrawn, sylencia, keir and yourself, a Dieno lynch would be really dumb today.
I very much disagree that he's playing to his town play. He's far more lurky than I've seen him as town.
Also, explain myself how?
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On February 26 2013 08:52 Acrofales wrote:
Why did you defend Snarfs?
I originally thought his first post was enthusiastic, and I thought iamp was gunning for lynch-bait by attacking it.
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On February 26 2013 10:35 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 10:22 Acrofales wrote:On February 26 2013 09:50 iamperfection wrote:
i would like to
do zare vs snarf
or
zare vs kier
i would like to give hapa some more time.
Is there anyone that is with me? Tell me again why Thrawn is town. His calling you out is not enough given the rest of his play. I have played town with him once and he played well. I read 2 other of his town games and they were also fine. This is not his townplay. i just dont think he is stupid. call it gut or whatever but his last scum games he did not post at all like we are talking 4 or 5 posts.is it possible he is scum yeah but i think there are better candidates and my gut says he is town.
In his last scum-game, he didn't post much, but he said that was due more to activity than anything else. Have you considered Mafia LVIII? Howabout Mario Mini Mafia? He posted a decent amount in both those games (though he replaced out of Mario).
As for this game, his play is very drastically different from anything I've seen from town Thrawn. He's missing a lot of his characteristic humor, he's considerably more clammed up, and he's failing to justify any of his reads.
Unless Thrawn shits rainbows into the thread in the next 20 hours, he's definitely someone I want to see "dueled" this cycle.
Regarding Zapa // Dueler #2
I just don't see the scum that you do in him. He's reasonably active, and I don't think that "list-post" that you quoted as scummy is all that scummy. It just seems like a read-dump of his thought process. Non-allignment indicative.
Zapa's been trying to question people and go after reads. That's a lot more than some other players here. Snarf would be my #2, since he's literally done nothing up until this point. He offered a 1-sentence rationale about how he wanted me dead, then made two of the most non-committal reads ever on Thrawn and Kei.
On February 26 2013 04:38 Snarfs wrote:... Also, I didn't like this line from thrawn:It seems like a really weird mindset. Scared to attack... should be more like "pressure" or why would you back off... not "scared to attack" - that seems to be attempting to incite Oats as opposed to get a read on him. full quote: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote:I don't like how quickly Oats backed down on his suspicions of marv. He goes from "kinda suspicious" to On February 25 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
I would not say you were very mannered in LIX.
And suddenly marv turns on the SERIOUS MODE.
Its not scummy, its just not alignment indicative as oh good plan = town. so Oats, why so scared to attack marv? Going through last few pages now.
On February 26 2013 07:40 Snarfs wrote:As of now, I'd support a Keirathi/Hapa duel. I need to read more from thrawn as it's still just a weird feeling about him, nothing concrete. I haven't read yamato's case on him yet, it was a bit too long and I didn't have time.I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv: Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote:
Holy thread explosion, Batman.
Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 02:43 marvellosity wrote:On February 26 2013 02:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
as town he'd be a good player to pick the main lynch candidate. if he's not town then we can lynch him instead thrawn, this is all weak as shit. iamp was your scumread and then you were possibly suspicious of Acro, and now you randomly want to have Hapa call a duel? Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other?
On February 26 2013 08:20 Snarfs wrote:
...
Keirathi's filter is shorter and easier to pick things out of. He made it clear he was going to look at the thread and perform analysis, but then didn't when noone pushed him for it. I guess, like marv said though, he could just be away... just the fact that he took time to create that one kinda terrible post though... I dunno, I don't like it.
...
He's not finding things scummy or questioning people. He's just making observations on things "he doesn't like".
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On February 26 2013 11:01 Keirathi wrote:No solid reads yet. I'm interested in thrawn, obviously. The town thrawn I know is logical and takes his time to look at all sides of the situation, and I just haven't seen that from him this game. He's just been flying by the seat of his pants (iamp scum, no town, no scum again! Hapa should be a dueler tomorrow!) with little to no reasoning for his "reads".
Do you have reads on anyone other than Thrawn? Town, scum... anything more would help.
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Mornin' all. Have a busy day in school today, but I'll be checking in-and-out of the thread today. Will have some free time tonight thankfully.
Woah did not expect that. First things first:
1) I'd prefer not to double-lynch. Forcing people to take sides is in our best interest information-wise. Deciding on a double-lynch right now is a cop-out.
2) Adam's duel doesn't look that bad to me. Consider his opening post:
On February 25 2013 10:06 Adam4167 wrote:
This started 30 minutes after i went to bed, bleh =(
I agree with Yamato, If i see scum, i'll make my case and duel them.
Forcing two other people to duel at your behest is weak - man up, take responsibility for your reads.
Dieno, your opening post was quite bad. You seem to be trying to make friends with and please everyone, while saying absolutely nothing of value. Step it up or get dueled tomorrow.
He thought Kei was scum, and dueled him. I think his decision was stupid, but it's consistent with how he approached the game.
If I had to pick one, I'd lynch Kei right now. Kei hasn't done anything to prove to me that he's town. He's lurked a lot, and his case on Adam wasn't very strong. Adam has approached this game with a lot more bravado than I'd expect from his scum persona.
##Vote Keirathi
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On February 27 2013 00:47 Acrofales wrote:
@Iamp, Hapa, Alderan: explain to me why Adam's situation is different from Meapak's shot in Bang Bang Mafia 2.
I have no idea wtf happened in that game and I'm in school for the next few hours. Can you give me the rundown? I'll take a look at it myself tonight.
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Oh hm well I just read that Bang Bang Mafia thing (Lot shorter than I expected o-O). I understand the similarities (rushing a day, wanting to kill discussion, etc), but I don't think it's a relevant comparison due to the difference in game-mechanics. Also, Adam =/= Meapak.
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On February 27 2013 01:29 zarepath wrote:
Why would scum suddenly throw caution to the wind to duel someone they have an unexplained read on? That's what I can't figure out.
^ This sums up what I'm thinking. What does "scum-Adam" have to gain in this situation? It is a really fucking stupid play for a townie, but it's also even WORSE from a scum perspective.
The one argument I can think of is that "scum-Adam" wanted to make it look like he was being "brave" and taking a risk by dueling someone he had a high chance of winning against. However even this doesn't make very much sense. For one, putting yourself on the block so suddenly is still a risky proposition. Secondly, this doesn't look calculated or planned at all - it reads a lot like a "FUCK IT, LET'S DO IT" duel given how suddenly and unexpectedly Adam decided to pull the tigger.
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On February 27 2013 02:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa, is keir playing to his town meta or scum meta?
To neither. Kei is much more active than this as both alignments.
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum.
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^ I like that plan.
Unless Adam or Kei have really damning evidence that the other is scum, it really doesn't matter what they think of one another at this point. No matter their alignment, anything they give is going to be completely un-objective since they're fighting for their own survival.
Having two people fling shit at each other isn't going to be productive. I'd rather see their other scum-hunting efforts.
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Oh damnit sniped by Oats.
On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning?
I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in.
And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town.
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On February 27 2013 02:44 Oatsmaster wrote:Hapa, why are you playing so differently this game? Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 10:19 Hapahauli wrote:On January 26 2013 10:12 xsksc wrote:
Oh hai Hapa, we haven't met. Wanna play Prom's game for me?
Tell me about yourself. What are your strengths and what are your weaknesses? I've been playing TL Mafia for... 6 months I think? I coach newbie towns a lot, and I love me some mini-mafia games. Well I'm far from objective about my own strengths and weaknesses. In terms of a self-assessment though, I like to have a high thread-presence and get in the thick of things. Basically I'm town, I'm spammy, and I'll likely build 20 page filter by the time I get shot. In Normal Mini, you played for 24 hours and had a 3 page filter, here you almost played for 48, GUESS WHAT? Also a 3 page filter. Where is the high thread-presence and spammyness you are talking about? Also you seem to be posting a lot more freely in Normal mini than in this game.
Normal Mini IV started on a weekend, and I have MUCH more time on the weekends. I'm in school from 8pm-5pm on weekdays, and as a result I simply can't be as active. I've been just about as active as I could be given my schedule.
Also Oats, you're fishing for my opinions and reads, but I've heard nothing what you think about them. Do you disagree with my thoughts on Kei and Adam? If so, why?
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On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing?
But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality.
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Anyway, I need to stop defending Adam and let him speak for himself. That being said, this situation screams like a stupid emotional decision rather than a sinister mafia plan.
Interested to see Kei's reads. Have only seen his views on Thrawn and Adam so far.
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On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb.
Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel.
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On February 27 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:50 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb. Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel. So if Keir isn't intentionally lurking what do you find suspicious about his behaviour?
Firstly, a major reason I'm voting Kei is because I'm pretty sure Adam is town.
As for Kei himself, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town at all. That and I didn't like his early interactions with Adam. His initial case made no sense to me, and Kei's constantly qualifying that he's not committing to his suspicions:
Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it.
I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up.
AFAIK, i never said "Okay guys, Adam 100% scum lets lynch him". I saw something, and mentioned it to the thread to get some feedback.
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And since you're around Kei, respond to the above when you can.
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On February 27 2013 04:10 Acrofales wrote:
Let me get this straight, Hapa: you think it's entirely possible Keir is town, but think killing him is the lesser of two evils? If you were a pardoner, would you consider stopping this lynch?
Yes and yes. None of my top scumreads are on the block right now.
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On February 27 2013 04:11 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:01 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:50 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb. Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel. So if Keir isn't intentionally lurking what do you find suspicious about his behaviour? Firstly, a major reason I'm voting Kei is because I'm pretty sure Adam is town. As for Kei himself, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town at all. That and I didn't like his early interactions with Adam. His initial case made no sense to me, and Kei's constantly qualifying that he's not committing to his suspicions: Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it. I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up. AFAIK, i never said "Okay guys, Adam 100% scum lets lynch him". I saw something, and mentioned it to the thread to get some feedback. Maybe my original post wasn't full fleshed out, but it made sense as I talked it out more, no? How does that make me scum? My point didn't change, I just explained it better. And so what, I was being non-committal towards the read. I demonstrably do that as town on day 1. What makes me scum this time, but not the others?
Thing is Kei, you've done barely anything this game. Does the above make you 100% scum? No, but it's a point against you.
At this point, I just need to see some activity/scum-hunting from you. If you're town, you have to prove it.
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Gah school has been busier than expected. I'll have a lot of free time starting tomorrow though, so I'll have much more time to devote to the game.
First things first, I'm very comfortable with my vote on Kei right now. He keeps promising he'll return, and never returns. It doesn't look like he cares much about the town, and hanging him is the best option.
Secondly, don't fucking double-lynch.
Acro is pushing the idea that Adam is a 3rd party, and I have NO CLUE how that makes sense. Firstly, we don't even know if there's a 3rd party in this game. Secondly, 3rd party mechanics put a heavy emphasis on survival (Serial Killer, Survivor, etc), and Adam's actions do not show a survival instinct at all.
Unless Adam's win-con literally is "If you win a duel, you win the game" - his actions only make sense from a town perspective. I've already stated why several times (too attention-whorey, looks like an emotional response, etc), and I'm not willing to put all my eggs in the 3rd party basket.
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EPT
