EPTThis means he's either town and not doing a proper job of explaining his thought process or he's scum and doesn't have a thought process beyond flinging suspicions around. Both are possible, but I saw no reason to comment on it before Yamato responds.
This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - Page 16
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Acrofales
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This means he's either town and not doing a proper job of explaining his thought process or he's scum and doesn't have a thought process beyond flinging suspicions around. Both are possible, but I saw no reason to comment on it before Yamato responds. | ||
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On March 04 2013 02:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro, what do you hope to gain out of waiting? So yamato isnt scum, is Hapa scum? Time for discussion. Time to decide. Time for both to put up a fight. Maybe they both convince me they're town and this was a colossal mistake. Maybe someone brings up a good argument that I haven't thought of for one of them being town/scum. Have an open mind and make an informed decision. That's my role here. You want to throw away the open mind and informed part there and just default straight to "make a decision". Why? How are you SO sure that Yamato is scum and Hapa isn't? I haven't seen any actual reasoning out of you in quite a while. You seem to be reading other people's cases and just agreeing with them. What are your own thoughts? | ||
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As for Yamato's case, I really don't want to comment on it too much before Hapa gets back here to address it. I think it has some interesting points and I feel the whole situation merits discussion before we just jump in and lynch someone. | ||
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On March 04 2013 02:45 cDgCorazon wrote: "I really don't want to discuss anything, but why do you not want to discuss anything Oats?" Yeah, lets take cheap potshots twisting my words. I am happy to discuss pretty much everything, but there is a reason I want Hapa to comment on Yamato's case, because I can think of many different reasons for lots of the things he said. If Hapa is scum and we all go around making up reasons why Hapa did what he did, all he has to do is come into the thread and say "yeah, what Jimmy said is what I thought about that at the time". However, Oats seemed deadset on lynching Yamato before Hapa is even back in the thread. THAT is what I meant with avoiding discussion. Cora, what is your opinion of Hapa? And while we're at it, what do you think of Oats? | ||
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On March 04 2013 02:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not against discussion, I just think that yamato is playing anti town with his duel, and with the earlier question marks about him, that makes him scum. Although I realize now that its not all bad, useful discussion can still be obtained. I was just pissed off at yamato for doing what we blatantly said not to do and what he criticized Adam for in the first duel. ##Unvote You were pissed off at Yamato. Do you think his early duel makes him more, or less likely to be scum? | ||
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On March 04 2013 03:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Im confused as to why Hapa needs to be in the thread for me to make a read on yamato. Why is that so Acro? Where on earth do I say that? I just want Hapa to respond to the case, because it'll help my read on HAPA. If I decide Hapa is scum, then I don't think Yamato can be. | ||
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On March 04 2013 05:21 Hapahauli wrote: And I think it's really clear from Yamato's "duel" antics here that he's simply not interested in finding out my alignment. He called me scum over 48 hours ago, promising all the way to provide a case against me. Since then, he's never given me an opportunity to explain myself, never asked me a single question, and has never attempted to interact with me. Then last night, he plops a case down at 5am and pulls the Duel trigger. That's not a town thought process, much less a town-Yamato thought process. As you recommended, I have read over British Empire... and I don't see the same aggressive Yamato as I see here. Yamato seems far more involved here. I also still don't see a reason for him to duel you if he's scum, let alone get all triggerhappy about it. Can someone give me a scum explanation for this? @yamato: everything you say about me now is fine, but I haven't altered my playstyle. Yet one day ago you were so convinced I was scum you were threatening to duel me at dawn. What in the last day changed your mind? | ||
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On March 04 2013 05:53 Hapahauli wrote: I'm pretty sure Acro defending Dieno early on. He's talking about my read when he was making his giant case on me. | ||
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I don't really see the two games as following a similar track. But it was his very first scumgame, so it's not much of an argument against him being scum either. | ||
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Now onto Hapa. This is going to be a very weird case, because I have basically decided to sheep players who have far more experience playing with Hapa than I do: Here are Marv's D1 reads of Hapa and Yamato: Hapahauli - he's just done nothing to make me think he's town, and Hapa is very capable of coming across town. Like iamp mentions, defends himself too much instead of doing proactive things. *could* just be a bad start. yamato - aggression, thread presence, decent reads, etc Iamp has been pretty damned spot on with his reads this game too (got both Keir and Dieno right pretty early on). He also had Hapa as scum (and has a lot of games with Hapa) and Yamato as town. Why kill Iamp over Adam? Because he was one of the few people actively pushing a Hapa lynch. I believe it's possible scum Hapa has been playing the long game. He identified early that Dieno was playing terribly and got on the bus. He then identified early that he wouldn't be able to save Keirathi with Keirathi's commitment and playing level, when Adam dueled him. Btw, a scum Hapa would've been far easier to identify if we had lynched Zapa first. If you simply assume Zapa is scum, then Hapa's association gets pretty dodgy. He has a strong town read, but when the thread starts seeing him as scum, he kinda goes quiet on Zapa. On the flipside, Zapa is about as non-committal as you can get when discussing Hapa. I don't want to use this too much, but a Zapa/Hapa scumteam makes quite a bit of sense. In order to see either Hapa or Yamato as scum, we need to just assume they were fully willing to bus. Yamato came out pretty strong against Keir. Then D2 realized that Dieno would have to die. Hapa came out pretty strong against Dieno and realized in the duel that Keir would have to die. I give equal townie points to both. So lets put the bus argument to rest. That leaves everything else in their play, and Yamato has just been more proactive and helpful than Hapa. + Show Spoiler [point-by-point] + Points in favour of town Hapa:
Points in favour of scum Hapa:
Points in favour of town Yamato:
Points in favour of scum Yamato:
So... I actually come down on Hapa being scummier than Yamato and will put my vote there. ##vote Hapahauli | ||
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Dieno is very wishy washy on Yamato and answers Hapa's questions, but never gives a read. Keir avoids talking about either Hapa or Yamato directly. | ||
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On January 12 2013 04:17 yamato77 wrote: If I had been there during Dandel's lynch I might have defended him just to increase Zentor's paranoia about the both of us. Hapa I'm sorry I did what I did this game. I have great respect for you as a player but I had to be so stupid you would never believe I was scum. It almost worked. I don't see Yamato being particularly stupid this game. He isn't getting stuck in tunnels on obvious townies and yelling at everybody else that they're stupid. His case on me, while wrong, pointed out a number of flaws in my play, which I am not very happy with. The meta just doesn't hold up. As for you being town? Maybe. I could be wrong. But given a choice between the two of you, I'll bet on you being scum and not Yamato. | ||
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On March 04 2013 10:30 Hapahauli wrote: Firstly, did you not read anything I posted above? His tunnels and switches this game have been non-sensical and have lined up pretty much exactly with mafia motivations this game. Secondly: Anyway this is the last I'm going to talk about Yamato. While I think he's scum, it's pretty clear that I have a conflict of interest here. Even if he could prove to me now that he had a 99.9% chance of flipping town, I'd still support lynching him just on the basis that I know that I'm town. Now if someone other than myself, Yamato, and Acro could post, I could get to more productive subjects. One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum? | ||
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On February 27 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote: Yes and yes. None of my top scumreads are on the block right now. He had a town read on both lynch candidates and was voting for Keir because he was "less townie" than Adam. No way he can suddenly come out for double-lynching. He HAS to defend that. | ||
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On March 04 2013 11:16 Adam4167 wrote: He doesn't start attacking Keirathi until AFTER I already call the duel. Nor does he mention me. He could have easily just dumped a town/null read on Keirathi and a SCUM read on me. He was not pigeonholed into any reads, yet he chose the least beneficial options for a scum player. That is either the worlds most super bus or.... hes not mafia! You were IN Hero Mini Mafia, right? You were on the business end of one of the most super busses. While everybody else was angry at you for being a jerk, Hapa jumped straight to the conclusion that you were town and voted for Keirathi, despite being cautiously null with slight suspicions before then. As Ace says: if you're going to bus, you have to go the full 9 yards. No point in bussing unless you max out your town credit with it. That's the whole point of a bus. But this is a completely pointless argument. I cannot know that Hapa was busing. I do know that someone was. Thrawn and Iamp have flipped town. I know I am town. That means: Either Sylencia is scum and Dieno<->Sylencia was a counterbus. This still seems unlikely. Or two of the votes on Keir were scum bussing him. I don't think it's you. I don't think it's Alderan and I don't think it's Cora. Alderan's play around Dieno is weird for fairly inexperienced scum. Cora is far too eager to get into fights with townies. And you are not playing like your scum meta. That leaves Yamato, Hapa, Snarfs, Zapa and Oats. I already said I believe Zapa to be scum, but that leaves one of the other 4. Oats picked a fight with Marv. While I have my suspicions, this just seems so illogical and pointlessly risky after he got completely slaughtered by Marv in LIX, that I keep coming back to him being town, regardless of the rest of his play. Snarfs is an outsider possibility, but I feel Yamato's Snarfs=town case to be believable. That leaves Yamato and Hapa. Out of these, I believe Hapa is more capable and likely to have played the scumgame he has than Yamato. | ||
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On March 04 2013 11:19 Hapahauli wrote: Acro, I want it straight from you right now - what is your read on me, and how likely do you think is it that I'll flip mafia? I've heard plenty of "oh he could have done <xxxxx> and <yyyyyy>" but nothing else. Less story-telling, and more reads. Go. It's not much of a case, but you're scum by elimination. | ||
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You refer to CT for other games where you took a step back, but you were still actively scumhunting. This game everything has just sort of happened to you. I have the distinct feeling that the only reason that you're calling Yamato scum is because he dueled you and it's mano-a-mano now. I see NO mention of a Yamato is scum idea bouncing around in your filter until he duels you. | ||
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