EPTIn the setup overview, there is a misspelling of the word mafia (Ctrl+F "maifa")
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVII
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Sn0_Man
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In the setup overview, there is a misspelling of the word mafia (Ctrl+F "maifa") | ||
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 I'll /in when I can don't worry. | ||
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On February 04 2013 01:45 glurio wrote: /in Policy lynch time | ||
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On February 06 2013 03:43 glurio wrote: Let's not start on the weekend this time around! In fellow newbies!  Agreed. We started on weekends twice in a row and it's always really slow (with noobs at least). | ||
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On February 06 2013 04:03 Dandel Ion wrote: So if there are two factors (weekend + newbies), how can you know it's the first factor's fault???? Cuz I was afk all weekend the first game? due to it being a weekend Admittedly day 1 will likely be fairly slow either way but starting on a weekend kinda hamstrings the chance at a decent day 1. | ||
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On February 07 2013 03:58 warbaby wrote: Also, I really would suggest people don't read anything I post. It's best for everyone that way. Prepping for a mafia roll this time? Mislynch 2.0 inc | ||
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On February 07 2013 04:55 Promethelax wrote: I'll /in I'm a newbie. You got a new icon does that count? | ||
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That, or if he isn't NK'ed first night he is clear scum. | ||
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On February 07 2013 07:02 Mocsta wrote: /in Caveat. Don't expect me to be the most active player this game. As one of the more experienced newbies I'm not going to try and be a town leader. Need to give others more of a chance. That doesn't mean won't be active, just I'm not going to mayor. This is... ambitious. Good luck with 2 games simultaneous. | ||
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On February 07 2013 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote: ENOUGH!! ?? Also welcome the gang this game is looking a lot more like my previous ones all of a sudden. | ||
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Only if you are on my team. | ||
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Basically, if town rolls no tracker/watchers, what is the chance of mafia rolling a framer/godfather (That function as a goon due to their roles being disruptive in nature). | ||
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On February 09 2013 01:16 Dandel Ion wrote: Who knows??... Well I do. But I won't tell ya. It's a mystery! Lol that was expected. Has acro rolled the setup yet? (not who is what but rather what roles each side have). | ||
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 Disclaimer: This is primarily due to a lack of bantering skills, not due to any inherent value or lack thereof in said banter. I'm bored. | ||
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On February 09 2013 13:38 warbaby wrote: If you want more Game of Thrones, you need to read the books. + Show Spoiler [Condescending Hipster Mode Active] + I started reading the books years before the (also amazingly good) HBO show came out. Second best fantasy series I ever read -- although I don't read a lot of fantasy. Second best? do elaborate! | ||
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On February 10 2013 15:50 Sn0_Man wrote: RNG is a terrible idea. Not voting for it no matter what I roll. People in favour of it (after role pms are sent out) are scummy in my eyes. | ||
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Oh well. I blame host starting 1/2 hour early. In other news, RNG lynch is still retarded and thankfully everybody with a brain has said no to it. I'd prefer if we avoided discussing it further. Looking forward to hearing introductory posts from everybody. Mocsta: I certainly hope you can bring yourself to post differently from last newb game you were in. You are not off on the right foot. Side-note: Misspelling and attempts to impress with words that you don't actually understand don't earn brownie points, although I'll have to admit they are hardly scumtells. + Show Spoiler [bad english] + On February 11 2013 10:02 Mocsta wrote: How do you plan to build a case on scum, if you can't even succintly manifest your thoughts on RNG. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:24 cDgCorazon wrote: Try not to be so offensive Mocsta... "succinctly" is not a word in the English language. And South Africa was colonized by the British for a long time so I'm pretty sure English is his first language... Most white South-Africans speak Afrikaans as their first language not english. I'm Canadian and not ESL. Mocsta's modus operandi is to be as offensive as possible. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell this is always scum-motivated (although from what I read of NMM 34 he posted the same way as town). Succinctly is english, succintly isn't. Amusingly, I appear to be the only person who can differentiate between the two. "Manifest", when used in its verb form, is not synonymous with "type", "say", or any other more accurate word you should have used. Irrelevant discussion of english aside, @Mocsta: being as openly aggresive as you are is NOT helping town. You don't need to establish your dominance every time you post. If you continue to purposefully inflame the emotions of others in ALL your arguments I will see that as scum motivated. | ||
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Cya tomorrow guys. | ||
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For what it's worth mocsta I think that you too are looking kinda similar to the last game I played with you (minus a key difference in a post a while back about lynching lurkers and scum vs bad town). And we know what that entails. What I really want are introductory posts from our remaining players 9-bit, severyn and macheji. Well, that and for warbaby to lose his victim card somewhere so that he stops playing it. | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:18 warbaby wrote: Your RNG idea wasn't even bad. We just needed to work it out in pre-game, and we failed. I was trying to support your ideas in pre-game, Mocsta (by pushing you to improve the idea). It's hard to say that the people who have voted me are scum, since they are making effort in their case (even if I personally think it's a stupid case). Sn0_man has not put in effort, he just made some noises about me and ditched out, without even an FoS. Is he egging on the bandwagon, and waiting to vote until it's a sure thing? As of the time you made this post, I hadn't even mentioned your name. Justification? | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:23 Mocsta wrote: Im asking for clarification here: Are you suggesting if warbaby is your strongest scum read, you will not vote him due to activity? Or am I misinterpreting? Day 1 boils down to lynching a lurker (unless blatant scum misplays). Warbaby is pretty far from actually slipping up enough to be called sure scum, so right now I want to remove the non-contributing members of our game. Note that last game both scum located themselves squarely in the lurker pool. The game before that... well that was a bit different. One scum was super-active (you) and the other two replaced out. I'm not saying I won't vote for warbaby, I'm saying we are very far from compelling evidence, and as such my plan currently is to vote a lurker. There is still a long time till first lynch so who knows who ends up being a low-value contributor (or what evidence may appear for certain lynches). | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:57 Mocsta wrote: I will stay up for 5 min. Sorry what does that even mean? +1 | ||
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Regarding the WaveOfShadow case, I see some merit there but I'm still not here to lynch posting players unless more comes up. I agree with Mandalor about what part of the case is compelling. Unprompted soft AND hard town claims with some fairly stupid follow up excuses. | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:29 warbaby wrote: Good question sevryn. I suppose because more than 1 vote could pressure him more to actually post? No chance. As somebody who lurked (actually AFK'd) a day 1, I can assure you that multiple votes doesn't change anything. the first one may spark a comment if he is actually lurking, but my money is on "still haven't really checked/caught up with the thread yet". IMO spreading the pressure is more effective (ONLY ON LURKERS). On February 12 2013 01:29 warbaby wrote: The point is to lynch lurkers, not just vote for them. But we're also pretty far from the deadline. No, the point is to get lurkers to be active. Failing that, to lynch them yes, but right now in happyland nobody would lurk and we would have free reign to lynch our best scumreads. Shouldn't really do that with lurkers floating around (see: last game). | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:38 Sevryn wrote: there is a pretty good chance a townie is scum I'm assuming this was just a horrible mixup of words? Because this doesn't look good for you... | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:39 zarepath wrote: That's the thing -- he's not posting anymore. If you expect EVERYBODY to respond inside 11 hours then you might be disappointed. If I had to guess, he posted that, went to bed fairly shortly after, then woke up this morning and went to work/school. He'll get back to us with about 24-26 hours left to lynch. This is educated guessing based on both of us living in Canada (so I have a rough idea of his timezone). Not everybody can play from work or w/e. | ||
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At the start of the game (utterly disregarding pre-game), geript leads with some lighthearted banter-style posts, pretty much continuing the pre-game: + Show Spoiler [Fluff Posts] + On February 11 2013 09:38 geript wrote: /confirm /this time for realz Both geript and warbaby are self admitted to be terrible. In the interest in addition through subtraction, I suggest people make an argument as to which is better to keep. ##vote warbaby On February 11 2013 09:47 geript wrote: @Warbaby, did Mr. Bimble tell you to post that? That out of the way, geript proceeds with some "content" posts. These are short posts that seem primarily aimed at, well, establishing a non-fluff presence in town. They seem pretty null to me. + Show Spoiler [warning: this one is decently large] + On February 11 2013 09:51 geript wrote: Mocsta: four people one way or another have responded in the negatory to RNG vote. That in the least is enough to negate the usefulness of RNG vote. Please cease your discussion of RNG as it is more likely to be a waste of time (both posting and rereading) at this point. On February 11 2013 09:58 geript wrote: @Cora can we please keep the tone constructive. Turning people directly towards an emotional response is worthless right now. @Mcosta please reread my post. I did not say it was a majority at all, just that it was enough to negate any perceived value of RNG. On February 11 2013 10:29 geript wrote: My point was thus: should everyone else adhere to RNG, 4 votes represents a voting majority in most cases. This it is better to ignore RNG as the benefits it has/may have (dependent on viewpoint) are negated by an outside majority. /done with talking about RNG. On February 11 2013 12:00 geript wrote: @Sn0_man. If the English discussion/correction was irrelevant, why post it? On February 11 2013 12:30 geript wrote: I find it to be a rhetorical question in that things irrelevant to the game aren't worth discussing. My WB vote is just an opening I wanted to try out that got outpaced by RNG. I for one am fine with addition by subtraction as a policy as I feel it is the basis for both the Lynch All Lurkers policy--in that lurkers add little to nothing-- and is the basis of scum hunting--in that they tend to actively try to detract from discussion through inaction, burying and misdirection. On February 11 2013 12:46 geript wrote: I mean that the general concept of it: make the town better by removing the person(s) with the least qualitative additions. We are either removing detractors (thus net gain) or removing scum (actual gain). ## change vote unvote On February 11 2013 13:22 geript wrote: I would argue that removing room to hide is important as it forces scum to constantly be better than the guy in last place. If scum can in fact beat the curve so to speak, then it's the bottom end's fault for not making their role/side clear. I wouldn't blame to top end for voting out scummiest/least town-like in that case. I would argue least qualitative = least town-like; note that's qualitative not quantitative. Bare minimum does not automatically equal least qualitative. Having established his interest in "Addition by Subtraction" (a legitimate idea, though poorly explained), he moves on to his one big post (also his first post today). + Show Spoiler [Geript's big post] + On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: I do think warbaby is town. On points 1 and 2: While this is a newbie game, I don't think that taking his townie claim or referencing 36 as anything other than a null read. Sorry, but I'm not seeing the point you're making in 4 either. As I read: more as trying to get the town as a whole involved rather than have Mcosta posting incessantly as he has been. While I agree on point 3, that warbaby hasn't really partaken in scum hunting, I don't think that this is a good measure of town v scum 6 hours into D1. To be honest, your case feels more like a gag. My concern would moreso be Mocsta. 1. He seems unconcerned as to who to throw towards the vote While some may read it as him aggressively trying to test the town, I read his posts and various switches and tests as just trying to see where he can gain traction. As well, he jumps on the first person having any real traction. 2. He doesn't even read his own posts First, he calls Warbaby's generic opening scummy when it's null at best. Next he tacks on his own important notes, and finally he calls Warbaby's initial post null. 3. He has diarrhea of the keyboard Additionally, he brings ups the post consolidation point which he actively avoids. Here he's accusing me, in effect, of running for mayor all while pushing his RNG agenda heavily. Blames warbaby for coming back to post 2 times after 'taking a break' when Mocsta has posted 8. At best, all this comes off as unintentional bad play. At worst it's an overexcited scum player. I find the latter more believable and either way I feel better about lynching him currently than lynching a lurker. A few things to highlight in the post above: 1) A town read on warbaby. While he gives OK reasons for a null read, I didn't really see any justification for "I do think warbaby is town". 2) A target that is distinctly not "addition by subtraction" based. Mocsta isn't a low-content poster. Sure most of his posts are bleh but at least he is making them. 3) Most of geript's points are based on ad-hominem attacks on mocsta and his style rather than on his play and contributions. I mean, I don't like Mocsta or his style either, but I think this game he has begun making real contributions to town. Rather than outline stuff that is scummy, geript is focusing on more peripheral stuff. Basically, I thought that yesterday, geript said a bunch of nothing while trying to look active, then today he made a big bullshit case trying to look like he was contributing. Not really clear scum, but not enough good things to deserve the easy ride he has had. I'm not voting him because I don't see the value in voting 30+ hours pre-deadline, and I thing "FoS"s are retarded, but I will say that geript has my attention. PS: geript's entire filter is in there minus his most recent fluff post. just btw. | ||
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On February 12 2013 02:32 Dandel Ion wrote: 9-BiT (1): Mandalor warbaby (1): Mocsta WaveofShadow (1): zarepath Not Voting (10): cDgCorazon, 9-BiT, Sevryn, WaveofShadow, Sn0_Man, Macheji, glurio, geript, Sylencia, warbaby Currently, 9-bit is set to be lynched! (due to tiebreakers) Hmmm, those tiebreakers seem wrong. On January 28 2013 09:37 Acrofales wrote: In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). Now, this is open for interpretation, but Warbaby had 2 votes before 9-bit had 2 votes, nobody has ever had 3, and warbaby's existing vote is older than 9-bit's correct? Pretty irrelevant I guess but I'd like to have a good understanding of how tiebreaks will work in this particular game. | ||
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Even with your proposed clause, the rules aren't ironclad. I do understand how you are interpreting them, but still... seems wrong. On February 12 2013 02:48 Dandel Ion wrote: [blue] warbaby had 2 votes at some point, but got down to one. AFTER that 9-bit accumulated two. On January 28 2013 09:37 Acrofales wrote: In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). Warbaby undeniably had "the most votes first". If we stick with your interpretation I'd like to see the OP changed | ||
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2 Admittedly, he was willing to toss some suspicion at mocsta but it was pretty weak and anybody could have pulled it off. Somebody who is obviously interested and invested in the game with exactly 2 posts is scummier than the 3 lurkers with 0 posts IMO (who as I said earlier may not have even read the thread yet). | ||
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On February 12 2013 04:57 geript wrote: @sn0_man What do you think are Mocsta's town contributions? What are the 'scummy things' Mocsta has done that you think I'm avoiding? Thats a long-ass filter you just asked me to read. The short version: He made a post a while back about the difference between lynching bad town and scum, which was spot on and actually was quite opposite of what scum would be telling noobs. Plus I think that he could easily have gotten away with a much more deceptive, scum motivated theory that I don't think town would have properly analysed. Plus he has avoided making super-ultra-ridiculously BS cases (something he did a lot of last time I played with him). It isn't that I have a strong town read, but I'm definitely leaning town here. Plus I still want to lynch a lurker today and slim this down to a game where everybody is contributing. BTW Glurio is squarely on my list of lurkers right now at 2 posts (no better than the 0-posters). | ||
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I'm happy to give him another day, but that defense hardly clears his name. @Warbaby care to clarify what part of Glurio's post is particularly townie compared to last game? I fully expect that, were he to roll scum again, he would up his game at least a bit with respect to looking more townie as scum. So one kinda OK post isn't gonna clear his name. | ||
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@Cora My point on English is because a person's diction is very important to how I perceive them. I was hoping mocsta could rectify the larger issues in his. My point on tiebreakers stands, I want to be certain how they function. Ideally, neither of these points would need to be raised but at the same time I don't feel that they were unnecessarily clouding the thread. Admittedly the English one dragged on for a while but that is Mocsta's fault. Zare: I forgot you were in that game with syl as well as mocsta. You mentioned why he won the last one, but you haven't really contrasted that to his current playstyle (of flying under the radar again). | ||
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That basically means everybody on Cora's lurker list. GET POSTING BOYS. + Show Spoiler + Or girls. Or gender-neutral beings. | ||
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@glurio: 2 games ago you were Vigi'd night 1. Then last game you lurked it up good but were at least decently active in the scum QT from what I could tell. You played a full game though and I hope have a better grasp of what kinds of contribution town members are expected to present. All I'm saying is that so far you are lacking in those aspects and that if you can't differentiate your town play from your scum play you are not being very helpful, much like the other lurkers. RL kicking in isn't the point. 2 (now 3) posts in 21 hours is the point. | ||
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On February 12 2013 07:23 WaveofShadow wrote: Also what are people's stances on lurker lynching re: 'semi-active' lurking v complete lurking? Those that fall into the first category being glurio and Sylencia (though I'm debating adding Sevryn to that list. Sevryn shares my stances on lurkers it seems though hasn't committed to anything or laid any cases down.) The second category being 9-bit and Macheji. As of now I'm still sticking with lynch of second category being more useful but those in the first had better contribute more than they have. On February 12 2013 07:21 Sn0_Man wrote: people who demonstrate presence and ability to post and fail to demonstrate willingness to contribute are worth less to town than possible useful replacements. | ||
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@mandalor you can feel free to invalidate this post. Even a "nuh-uh" post would at least indicate that you are around | ||
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My point is, having played scum he KNOWS what his scum play is and if he can't differentiate between his play now from his scum play then, well then that is going to look scummy. Furthermore, having had a "warmup" round as scum, I expect his second round of scum to be at least slightly more convincing. As such, in my mind there is a higher bar than just "some difference" between his previous game and this one. If the best he can do is one mildly less scummy post than last game, that doesn't really make me think of him as town. At least him posting a nice big piece on me gives us something to work with. Given that he has contributed more than others now, I'll look to them for the time being. | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:01 warbaby wrote: You asked me a question, so I answered you. My stance on you is null, so of course I have the ability to change my stance later. That's not a back door, that's called making up my mind when I have sufficient evidence. The way you're analyzing my response is... bizarre. You need to chill out and think rationally, not come up with the most tenuous of associations and strained explanations for motivations when people do simple things like answer your questions directly. If you want my general opinion on geript, well it's only like 24h into the game. So far his contributions aren't stellar, but neither are anybody else's (including yourself). I'm certainly not going to claim he's scum based on the available evidence this early in the game (like you seem so eager to do, to anybody, which could be a bit scummy). I think voting Sylencia makes more sense right now than anybody else. Lets be fair. Your post was super wishy-washy and non-committal. Mocsta is always trying to get a rise, its how he plays. | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote: OK. I will just say this: I think that is a silly reason; ppl present these arguments all the time, and its very rare they do just drop out. Look at Acid in NMM XXXV; had 0 posts, people present the modkill argument, and then he came in with a bang. If your going to push lurkers; push them all please; otherwise I want genuine reasons why you are giving preferential treatment. Yeah, but acid came in with a bang and was very helpful to town (ending up championing your lynch which ended up winning the game I think). And cakepie who replaced in last time was very helpful as well. My point is (and I've made it many times), There are people worth LESS to town than a random as-yet unknown replacement may be. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:43 Sevryn wrote: Guys, warbaby is getting discussed to death and my comments to Glurio are getting buried. Can we please discuss something new, these are my points on his case to Sno_Man. - why did he show all of snos post hes just trying to look like hes trying hard to scumhunt, but is the same as if we just read his filter. -his question about the bolded part of one of snos posts " Why wouldn't scum tell the town what exactly they should be looking for and just avoid exactly these things?" is just useless rhetoric and he obviously isnt trying to achieve anything with it -hes also defending himself when no case or anything was made against him so hes preemptively getting ready to be accused by pretending to have gotten attacked. lastly while he made a big case that doesnt say much he still has barely any posts so hes doing exactly what he claimed not be doing which is actively lurk. Glurio is scum ##vote: Glurio Big words. That being said, I mostly agree for now. Especially on the "Warbaby has been discussed to death" part. FWIW his "plz don't lynch me" dance is identical now to last game, where he was town, but I'm not sure if that really matters. Still got 20 hours to lynch, so I'd appreciate it if everybody kept their minds open. And I STILL think we should lynch a very-low content poster over a weak scumread. And while your confirmation biases may be strengthening by the second, I certainly still classify most of the cases as weak scumreads (or null). Thankfully, the number of people who have said essentially nothing is dwindling. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:55 cDgCorazon wrote: I wasn't going to bring it up until tomorrow, but his suggest to kill Syl was so dumb I couldn't resist. So you have a town read on Syl? Or you think that Syl is a big contributor? (admittedly in the last ~half hour he has picked up but for most of the time WB was forming opinions on him...) | ||
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Cora: "Warbaby you are so indecisive and won't stand on anything. no strong reads. That makes you scummy" Warbaby: "Fine. I think Sylencia is especially scummy. He is playing like he did last game he was scum" Cora: "OMG WB so retarded there are lots of other lurkers too. Picking one makes you scummy" ... I mean, it isn't like your points are wrong, but you are hammering him pretty unnecessarily. Browbeating people doesn't make them play better, and honestly how can you say that Warbaby is legit scum? Yeah he started off really poorly ("I was MVP last game bow to me. I WAS MVP OMG GUYS NOW I"M PLAYING MY META") but still, he has figured out that that was the wrong approach and has (in my eyes) cleared up some of the other issues with his play. I can see him as a townie who just can't find anything substantial to hang a case on. Its a realistic possibility. YES HE COULD BE SCUM TOO but it isn't like he has proved it anywhere that I've seen. | ||
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I legitimately am OK with day-1 mislynches. They generate lots of information and are a tool town can use to cull the useless members. Addition by subtraction and all that. Sure, I'd *love* to hit scum day 1 but sometimes I feel like removing active voices from the game just makes it easier for scum to glide like last game where Slay/Glurio posted essentially nothing and got away freely while cases were thrown at everybody who dared open their mouth and actually post a semi-intelligent thought. The fact that our blue roles bailed us out last game doesn't mean that the town atmosphere wasn't very scum-favoured for quite a while. I'm not sure the risk of trying to hit scum by lynching contributors is worth it if the downside is basically silencing town if we are wrong. Establishing the expectation that posting content on a decently regular basis is required to avoid getting lynched goes a long way towards making scum slip. I mean, you played scum, you know how attractive it must be to just glide if town is actively trying to silence all the loud voices... | ||
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On February 12 2013 14:41 Mocsta wrote: lastly. Sno. Can i pls have thoughts on geript and the chainsaw defense. You came up with a hilarious association based OMGUS accusation because everybody who questions you is clearly scum in your eyes? Okay thats a bit harsh. You've shown real difference (IMO) in your play this game compared to 35. Still, the fact that your defense against geript is "you are attacking me to clear warbaby" is a thinner defense than WoS's "I'm so sorry plz don't lynch me" Defense. That said, his case isn't exactly damning... I still don't see it as a "chainsaw defence of a scumbuddy". I mean seriously, thats a very heavy association to make day-1. All he is saying is that you like to shit up the thread, which is true (improvement is noted). If you think Warbaby and geript are scumteam, and you are highly suspicious of WoS as well, I can almost guarantee you are wrong somewhere. There is always a lurker scum. | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:23 Mocsta wrote: You know what, *this* post made me realise where geript commentary came from, specifically claim town vs think town. Not sure what this quote is about but w/e. I still get the same vibe from warbaby this game as last game. It isn't a good vibe but he turned out town last game... I'm happy for you to pressure geript and WB, and I'd sooner lynch geript than WB unless that hasn't been clear. I still feel like too many people get off without really doing much contributing (even if they are town, pressuring town is fine by me). | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Honestly the thought of zarepath as scum terrifies me because nobody has mentioned him at all today. I REALLY hope he is town. I thought the same thing about Spag in my first game. Turns out he WAS scum, and we lynched his ass then won the game (not really in that order). There is always hope. Day 1 always looks bleak tho in my experience. FWIW zare looked like his regular townie self to me (based on 2 games as townmates). RL commitments don't make you a lurker/scummy. I expect him to post a bit more pre-lynch. | ||
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Well, looks like I have some real searching to do in the next 10 hours. I'm still of the opinion that somebody should be able to construct a fairly legitimate case against a low-post-count player. It may end up being me if I have time. | ||
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I'd like a more in-depth review from you on either mandalor or sylencia that include examples from their filter. PROVE that Mandalor is trying to move discussion forward while Sylencia is trying to hide in the shadows. | ||
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Admittedly he hasn't done a ton of other stuff, but at the same time he certainly wasn't tunnelling you. I don't really see how you can construe it that way. Regarding Mandalor, voting a lurker with more than a day left to lynch is a safe vote, not a pressure vote. Its a "well now that my vote is down I can go back to hiding and only change it if I need to" kind of vote. Admitting that it is a "pressure vote" also defeats the purpose (as Sylencia has pointed out). Town care about their votes, as votes are (generally) the only power they have. Scum want their votes to give away as little information as possible, to cheapen the very concept of a vote. It should be decently clear which of those two things random "pressure votes" are. Including some of the ones you have thrown around too. I'd be more inclined to lynch Mandalor than Sylencia right now. ALL THAT ASIDE, We are now 7.5 hours away from lynch (give or take). Idle chitchat time is over, we now need to begin our decision-making process on final voting. In some ways, I've seen enough posting that I could now be convinced to lynch a more active player. However, I still heavily prefer lynching somebody with low contribution, since that is still where scum can hide easiest. | ||
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On February 13 2013 02:38 glurio wrote: Mandalor i'd like to hear more from. Sevryn might be scum making a terrible case on me voting and hoping for a wagon. Other than that i have nothing right now. I can understand how a town would feel like this as well, but as I recall one of the hallmarks of newer scum is an inability to make cases due to knowing everybody's alignment (and of course not wishing to bus the real scum). Plus glurio has kept his post/contribution levels quite low (although admittedly if he doesn't have any leads then posting doesn't make a ton of sense). At least there is much less sheep in his play this game compared to last. Again though, that could definitely be a meta update based on the results of last game. | ||
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However, last game you avoided suspicion by: low number of posts, no real commitment to lynching any one person, and sheeping others. This game, you have a low number of posts and no real commitment to lynching any one person. The sheep is mostly gone, which I again think is a point in your favour, but I don't wish for people to let you off the hook based on just that point. Basically, I want more posts. I'd like activity, and activity will allow me to read you based on what you say instead of what you don't say. More activity won't get you a free ride, but it will save you from my current interest in lynching those who don't contribute. Again, sorry if you feel like you are in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position, because that isn't what I'm trying to do to you. I just want posts that keep the game moving. As I previously mentioned, it is your responsibility to differentiate your play this game from your scum play last game. And in a meaningful, convincing manner. | ||
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On February 13 2013 03:49 cDgCorazon wrote: @Warbaby Who is playing more similarly to when they were scum: Sylencia or Glurio? I'm also interested in hearing this from zarepath since he has played against both of them when they were scum (in different games OFC). | ||
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On February 13 2013 04:01 Mandalor wrote: If you didn't feel like my vote is a "safe vote" and attacked me for it, I would've never said that its purpose is to pressure lurkers. If you have a problem with the vote itself, fine. But when you ask me about or attack me because of it, I'm gonna have to give an honest response. Pressure voting is totally fine and a decent power, but here it is you who defeated its purpose. ##unvote I get credit for single-handedly defeating the "pressure" vote on a no-posts player who is getting replaced in 6 hours? I'll take it. I was under the impression I had explained the invalidity of attempting to pressure actual AFK players with votes, and how it cheapens the very concept of a vote down to something that we throw around. Pressure votes are legitimate, but I expect them to be associated with a real case. And I expect some measure if intent-to-lynch behind them if the pressure reveals some cracks. | ||
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And I don't think he "caved quickly" since that vote has been around for a while and I've complained about it before. | ||
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Your vote is dumb too. Better? | ||
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It can be a "Lynch Scum" plan or a "Lynch Lurker" plan. Whatever seems right to you. I know this may take time to make a real choice, but the lynch is coming up quicker than you know so lets hear some scumhunting now | ||
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On February 13 2013 04:26 WaveofShadow wrote: To be fair, Sn0 already addressed that at the top of the page. I was only seeing how you'd react, honestly. Now as far as keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do, are you referring to your 0-post lynch or mine? Because I know what I'm doing. Did you? ??? Do you think that maybe you should, you know, unvote now? Given that I helped clarify for you that your vote was dumb. | ||
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On February 13 2013 04:34 Mandalor wrote: Right now, I would vote Sylencia. His response so far hasn't changed anything for me concerning his odd behavior with warbaby. WB never soft-claimed anything - yet Syl gives us this odd post saying he's most likely vig or scum. That is the opposite of helpful for town. I can't think of a use for this information at this point in the game. Elimination surely can't be it when we don't know any role yet. That combined with his uncharacteristic (I think? at least have that in my mind) lurking (yeah yeah I know, but I have posted more here than I did in any game yet) makes him my top scum read for now. If nothing big comes up that will be my vote for tonight (will probably have to vote in 4 or 5 hours and call it a day). There we go! See, I can think of an explanation for most of what Syl is doing, but I'm not going to call you out if you can't. I think WB soft-claimed, but I can definitely see how others think he didn't. I like you you picked a name, gave a real reason that was consistent with your earlier posts, and didn't even need to make it too long. Obviously this doesn't prove you are town but it certainly helps your chances of not being lynched today. For now, I won't ask more but keep in mind that we expect more of THIS POST as often as is reasonable for you to manage (I know its time consuming). | ||
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On February 13 2013 04:37 zarepath wrote: I recommend you do a full case on his filter outlining more than just that SINGLE reason for him being scummy. Well, that basically is Sylencia's whole filter... On February 13 2013 04:36 WaveofShadow wrote: My vote on Macheji stands. LAL and whatnot. You have yet to explain the value to lynching Macheji. Since Macheji is currently not part of this game (in any meaningful fashion) you are currently voting for a no-lynch, which is generally accepted as terrible day 1. Unless you are psychic and know what his replacement will say day 2? Now, if Macheji/9-bit show up shortly before the deadline to vote, then by all means we lynch them ded, but for now... you are not helping town with that vote. As I spent so long explaining to mandalor. | ||
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On February 13 2013 04:52 WaveofShadow wrote: I feel like doing a full case on Sevryn right now but I have a midterm soon so I don't have the time to follow up. Will be back a few hours pre-vote. Sevryn has been tunneling Glurio REAL hard all game. The only post not directed at Glurio since yesterday was one talking about how he wants to see more from lurkers like Mandalor when they have contributed far more than he has. His filter is one page long and the first few posts are all game theory crap. Not linking here because you can check the filter yourself; real easy read. Now I don't like glurio this game either so I'm going to speculate a little. I don't believe they are both scum. If they were both scum and Sevryn implicates glurio, then he is in danger of being lynched D1 due to lurker/scummy reads on him so far. I can't see him doing this and leaving it up to chance at the end of the day like he says. I don't believe this is a bus attempt either because it's a newbie game, and bussing is real big talk most of the time. I don't believe they are both good town either because each has posted 'just enough' to attempt to stay under radar while contributing absolutely nothing of value. Essentially I believe either Sevryn or glurio are scum right now, with another scum being one of the 0-post lurkers, Sylencia or geript as I had stated earlier. So you think that: One of Glurio/Sevyrn is scum One of Sylencia/Geript/9bit/Macheji is scum One of the rest is scum. Why are you voting for a 1/4 chance when you could vote for a 1/2 chance (glurio/sevyrn)? Plus, I'm of the opinion that it should be fairly easy to lynch one of glurio/sevyrn if you make a realistic case. | ||
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On February 13 2013 04:52 zarepath wrote: Here's the thing -- we don't KNOW that he'll be replaced Well if they aren't replaced then WoS is voting no-lynch which is NOT helping town On February 13 2013 04:52 zarepath wrote:It is actually to scum's advantage for replacements to come in because we have less info on them if they ARE scum and have plenty of excuses to roll with, and if they're NOT scum town is still going to spend a bunch of energy wondering about this mysterious replacement when they come in. Sure, but one of the most important parts of the day 1 lynch is to GENERATE INFORMATION. The voting is often very informative. If we all just vote for a 0-poster then we don't learn anything, and the player may as well have been modkilled + we have a no-lynch. Once again, this isn't helping town. | ||
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I actually kinda like insane last hours, they lead to screw-ups which are often key to catching scum. But yeah, I intend on having my vote in decently ahead of lynch. I'll read up on warbaby but otherwise I like a sev/glurio lynch today. One of the two. | ||
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On February 13 2013 06:21 glurio wrote: I'd prefer lynching one of the lurkier players, sevryn, syl or mandalor right now. Which one? Why? I mean, I don't disagree, but you have 3 targets and I'm assuming you don't think that you have nailed the 3-man scumteam so there is reason to go further than "one of these 3". | ||
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On February 13 2013 06:29 zarepath wrote: Just popping in to say that Mocsta last posted 6 hours ago, which is really weird. I assume he must sleep at least 6 hours a day, though. Warbaby's last post is quite a while ago (page 30 methinks?) as well if I didn't mess up his filter somehow. I still think it safe to say we will see both of them before lynch. | ||
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On February 11 2013 14:01 warbaby wrote: I won't claim my actual role right now (just that my alignment is not mafia rofl), but if we get to a point later (d2+) where others are considering claiming, I will not hesitate this time. On February 11 2013 20:57 warbaby wrote: I could give away more information (like a blue role) later on, but I haven't done that yet Between the two of these it looks like you are saying "I'm blue but I'm not gonna out and say it". VTs traditionally have no real problem mentioning that they are VT (afaik?). You are more like "I'm town, but I won't tell you what special kind of town". Which means you are a special kind. Which is a soft claim. Even if you didn't mean it that way, at least half the thread read it that way. | ||
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@cora you really don't (to me) look like you are trying too hard to improve off of last game. I still want to lynch low-content semi-lurkers who simply aren't helping town (and therefore live in a space where they are more likely to be scum). The two that stand out to me are glurio and Sevryn. Glurio has in the past little while managed to just enough for me to prefer a Sevryn lynch. With Sevryn's less-than-1 page filter, all he has managed is to attack (imo) the only other real lynch candidate: glurio. Even if he isn't scum, he isn't contributing enough for me to keep him around. I will listen to anybody who wants me to lynch glurio, or else any REALLY CONVINCING cases on someobody else. However, with less than 2 hours to lynch I'd like to get my vote down now. Town needs to a) all vote and b) start consolidating please. ##Vote: Sevryn | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:12 cDgCorazon wrote: Warbaby. These are the reasons I'm voting for you. You're not reading my filter. You're not taking the time to give me full answers, just OMGUSing and making emotional responses. There are others who post less who have also contributed no actual scumhunting The "why don't we both stop posting for a bit" post seems quite reasonable to me. The thread was being clouded with a ton of irrelevant yammer. The fact that warbaby has echoed others is lamentable but not unique. Sometimes you agree with a case that is presented. The fact that he wishes to vote for Sylencia is also not unreasonable. In fact, it could be construed as scumhunting. It isn't like Sylencia is a WORSE target than many other lurkers. None of what I say makes any claim to "prove" WB as town, but it gives reasonable doubt to his scumminess (IMO). As such, I still request that we lynch somebody with extremely low post-count and contributions. I feel like you are tunnelling really hard for no reason cora. I'm still willing to look at a WB lynch for sure, BUT NOT TODAY. | ||
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As such, I request that you MOVE your vote to something that town can agree upon. If you think that sevryn is not scum, and would prefer to lynch glurio (OR SOME OTHER REAL CANDIDATE WITH REASONS) let me know. Thx. | ||
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Buuuuut I really would rather lynch lurkers. They have equal or greater chance of being scum anyway. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:47 geript wrote: Point out what you'd like. I haven't made a case against many people; neither, iirc, have I weighed in on 0 post non-participant vs low count lurker. Those facts are hardly relevant. I'd point out that no one has really made a case against you at all. As far as I see it, your agenda has been to make the town atmosphere negative. Yes, it takes two to get into a flame war and I'm not giving war baby any credit avoiding those spats either. In the least Mocsta has shown that he's willing to listen, even though I think his vote for me is weak at best. You on the other hand have tunnel visioned on your target of the moment at each point. Scum hunting is fine and being aggressive is fine. But the belligerent tone you've taken at many points, especially over exceptionally minor things, isn't beneficial to the town. Rather, it seems to me like you want everyone to spend their time scrutinizing your target so that they avoid you entirely. Your "We haven't gotten scum day 1 lynching lurkers, so lets try a new tack" comment from a while back (would quote but still on phone) keeps on sounding like "Let's lynch a loud voice" to me. In my experience the louder voices are almost always town; I even think one of the guides says something similar. Now you're going to ask why I'm not voting for you (likely), but I still think that you're misguided right now and not an active dissident. So my vote remains in place for right now. who are you referring to here? | ||
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Time to re-read mandalor's filter to see if I can vote him in good conscience | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:06 WaveofShadow wrote: I can't, and something seems off to me about Zare's analysis. I need to re-read. Yeah Mandalor has way more townie points than the others in my book :/ Short filter to read through though. I don't think I can vote Mandalor. | ||
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I think I may be willing to vote Sylencia, but my read on him is Blue or Scum, not green. I read somewhere that people who seem withdrawn and preoccupied with blue roles (like Syl was when we talked about WB's pseudo-blue claim) are often blue themselves. (Somewhere is in Ver's analysis of XXX). I really didn't want to lynch Syl because he might flip blue but his contributions haven't really been in line with what I would hope a town member would try to bring to the table. So basically, I'm willing to consolidate on Syl but I want you guys to understand the risk that he flips blue is decently high IMO. | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:47 WaveofShadow wrote: I have an interesting post all ready to go, but I just don't think I can pull the trigger. Ummmmmm. LETS HEAR IT 12 minutes to lynch is enough time for me. | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:50 Sylencia wrote: ##Vote: Warbaby .................... ........................ ....... ................... .......... wow | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:54 WaveofShadow wrote: If I could PM you, I would. It just doesn't make sense right now. Your vote looks ultra-scummy right now btw | ||
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3 mins to lynch tho | ||
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@Warbaby: If I was scum I'd be happy to laugh at retarded town who can't summon more than a 3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 vote. There is no reason for any of them to be on glurio unless they either a) felt the need to save sevryn (aka sevryn is scum, kinda lines up with his vote) or b) they were afraid of people blaming them for throwing away their vote like what I just did to WoS. Dunno. That doesn't convince me that any of those 3 *must* be scum. | ||
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I suppose I haven't articulated this quiet properly yet, but I'm really really displeased with how the vote turned out. Everybody voting for a different target is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen and it really ruined our chances of drawing good info from the vote. Since I don't have much to say anymore (Other than that you guys are colossal retards), I'm basically gonna wait for night actions to say much (unless anybody has something useful to say?). The fact that nobody has posted in 10 hours except the host isn't encouraging. | ||
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On February 14 2013 02:02 zarepath wrote: When all they have to do is simply be one of the five people voting by themselves, escaping all suspicion? Easy temptation to resist; they can just have three townies mislynch somebody while they camp on a worthless vote that they won't ever get criticized for. I'm not saying that that's my read on what happened; I'm saying it seems just as likely. We need to be open to possibilities in our analysis. Basically, this vote was so bad any speculation on what it means turns into WIFOM almost instantaneously. I mean, all 3 scum could have bus-voted each other this round just to clear their buddies if one of them gets lynched later. We honestly have no clue. | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:23 Mocsta wrote: You know what, *this* post made me realise where geript commentary came from, specifically claim town vs think town. I would like to hear an explanation of this line Mocsta. I asked before but I don't remember much of an answer. + Show Spoiler [Full Post/Context] + On February 12 2013 15:23 Mocsta wrote: You know what, *this* post made me realise where geript commentary came from, specifically claim town vs think town. just keep in mind please; chainsaw defense doesnt apply to just defending scum buddy. its basically just attacking the someones attacker personally (instead of their argument). So can be applied to defending town. As I said before in that "Case": as town, would you defend someone Day1 with such a method? The only reason i can think of is if you were masoned with someone; hence KNEW they were town. There are simply better avenues to approach the situation. warbaby is a scum read of mine; yes so makes sense to say its association based. BUT, note, we can only vote one person. I think you will notice my vote is actually on geript because his actions have made him a stronger read. (its just I am continuing to pressure my other read warbaby) | ||
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On February 14 2013 02:07 Sevryn wrote: Alright so sno_man why are you so focused on whether or not WB claimed? while I agree that he could have soft claimed this seems like something you wouldnt want to draw attention too especially before n1. Which you did in at least 4 semi recent posts. + Show Spoiler + On February 13 2013 09:44 Sn0_Man wrote: You aren't helping yourself glurio. I think I may be willing to vote Sylencia, but my read on him is Blue or Scum, not green. I read somewhere that people who seem withdrawn and preoccupied with blue roles (like Syl was when we talked about WB's pseudo-blue claim) are often blue themselves. (Somewhere is in Ver's analysis of XXX). I really didn't want to lynch Syl because he might flip blue but his contributions haven't really been in line with what I would hope a town member would try to bring to the table. So basically, I'm willing to consolidate on Syl but I want you guys to understand the risk that he flips blue is decently high IMO. On February 13 2013 06:54 Sn0_Man wrote: Between the two of these it looks like you are saying "I'm blue but I'm not gonna out and say it". VTs traditionally have no real problem mentioning that they are VT (afaik?). You are more like "I'm town, but I won't tell you what special kind of town". Which means you are a special kind. Which is a soft claim. Even if you didn't mean it that way, at least half the thread read it that way. On February 13 2013 04:41 Sn0_Man wrote: There we go! See, I can think of an explanation for most of what Syl is doing, but I'm not going to call you out if you can't. I think WB soft-claimed, but I can definitely see how others think he didn't. I like you you picked a name, gave a real reason that was consistent with your earlier posts, and didn't even need to make it too long. Obviously this doesn't prove you are town but it certainly helps your chances of not being lynched today. For now, I won't ask more but keep in mind that we expect more of THIS POST as often as is reasonable for you to manage (I know its time consuming). On February 13 2013 06:56 Sn0_Man wrote: To further explain WB, the fact that you even went so far as to mention roles and blue and whatever looks bad. "I'm Town" looks fine and doesn't claim VT or blue, but "I won't tell you my role (other than I'm town)" looks leading/breadcrumby/soft-claim. Now I know this is kind of contradictory for me to post this night one but I was looking for someone to make a case on and tbh this is all I really noticed on you and figured I should share my thoughts before everyone assumed I had gone full on lurker when I'm really in the middle of my two busiest work days. so while you not super scummy to me I would like to know why you keep pointing this out. In my opinion you should have saved this for day2 discussion at the very least. Oh hadn't seen your post when I posted mine. People kept misunderstanding what happened with Warbaby. He thought he didn't blue claim, everybody else thought he did. That misunderstanding was a large part of multiple arguments which I didn't agree with. Especially since people who were voting for Syl did so because of how he analyzed what happened there. | ||
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On February 14 2013 02:16 Sevryn wrote: so you were defending syl? No, mostly I was trying to clear up what had happened. Two of the posts you quoted are me explaining to Warbaby how everybody else saw the posts he made, since there was a serious disconnect between us and him regarding what he had said. It is fairly obvious that town is divided and sees things different ways (as evidenced by the vote) and I've been trying to get us back on the same page. | ||
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On February 14 2013 02:50 Sevryn wrote: also all the wasted votes are terrible. I really wanted to kill some people for their votes, but I can't exactly call half the thread scum for tossing away their votes so... asdl;fjkl;asdjkl;jkljs This game sucks. BTW that wasn't exactly a list of reads. A quick note on everybody is preferred. Doesn't even have to be more than like 3 words. | ||
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That is why Syl would change his vote to save himself. | ||
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On February 14 2013 04:32 ObviousOne wrote: @Sn0_man I would have to go back through filters (currently re-reading the game backwards as I believe I just mentioned before) to check this. It's hard to judge whether or not "saving yourself" is scummy, but the best indicator to me is: did Syl have a read on Glurio before Syl was on deck to be lynched? Was there any mention of Glurio's alignment from Syl at any time? If it was town, I'll be very concerned. No, Syl merely talked about then voted warbaby. His filter is quite short. I still think that self preservation is a completely null point. If I could lynch every other player on the spot and save myself, I'd do it in a heartbeat. VICTORY (for all alignments). Again, given the choice between confirmed town and ANYTHING ELSE, you lynch the else. Even if you have a town read on somebody, unless you are sure that they will help town more you lynch them not you. All that said, I'm also fairly open to a Syl lynch (I believe I mentioned this before the first lynch). I have mild reservations but less for him than for most other players. | ||
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On February 14 2013 04:51 WaveofShadow wrote: A valid point. My problem is neither my reads on glurio or Sevryn at the time were particularly strong and probably easily picked apart by someone better at the game than me. I know I've been super inactive N1, but it's gonna have to stay that way probably until the N1 action happens as I still have a lot to do today. I will be back in full force on D2. N1 this game has been very inactive in general. I'm fairly sure this is a direct result of the TERRIBLE vote/lynch that we did yesterday. That certainly isn't the thing that makes you look bad to me... @OO: Yeah we were discussing Syl @Zare: I felt like Syl was under non-negligible pressure, although admittedly there weren't a ton of votes on him. | ||
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On February 14 2013 05:17 TestSubject893 wrote: Hey guys. As you know I'm replacing 9-bit. As it turns out I was somewhat of a last resort as a replacement and am actually pretty busy today with work. I should be able to catch up on the thread later tonight, hopefully by a little before the time night 1 is ending, and as such don't expect to be active in the thread until about then. I look forward to playing once I get caught up. GLHF everyone~ GLHF. Get back to us when you can, and thanks for subbing | ||
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/facepalm | ||
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On February 14 2013 05:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Why would scum bus each other D1? That doesn't make any sense. I didn't want to dive into OMGUS. If you want to now, go ahead... Why would you make association cases pre-flip D1? That doesn't make any sense. Seriously, you are SO CONFIRMATION BIASED on WB that you are letting his opinions colour your views on other people. I mean, as scum its safe to D1 bus a scumbuddy who won't get lynched anyway... Pure WIFOM but so is your argument that Syl is town. | ||
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That said, I can't possibly see how leaving him alive is a good idea for now. I'll go over the implications in more detail later, but suffice to say that if the best we can come up with Day 1 was a 3-2-1-1-1-1-1 vote, then I don't see the value in town having "control" (tenuous at best) of a loose cannon SK. So for now, ##Vote: ObviousOne | ||
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On February 14 2013 15:18 ObviousOne wrote: Yeah I wasn't really having too much hope at this point. Oh man, the obs thread must be going nuts. | ||
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On February 14 2013 15:01 cDgCorazon wrote: Umm I don't see why you can't vote him off later...? I vote once my intent to lynch is clear and somewhat unlikely to change. Unfortunately, that is the case now. | ||
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Either way, OO is an anti-town role. However, at this point his actions still make me think it likely that OO is the serial killer not somebody else. If that is true, then town can think about "manipulating" the SK. Because at this point, the SK wants to kill scum anyway (since killing too much town leaves him vulnerable to scum, who are more coordinated than town). So if we let the SK live on the premise that he will shoot scum, then it is good. However, a) I don't think OO knows who scum is any better than anybody else and b) given the roleblock happening, and assuming it is scum, they can roleblock the SK every night and still kill with impunity until they have lynch-control. Because the SK has veteran status (+1 night life), I'm guessing scum want to lynch him not shoot him. So we arrive at a funny point where scum wish very much to lynch the SK rather than shoot him, yet I believe it is also in towns best interest to lynch him (because scum fairly clearly has the tools to shut down the SK, and because I'm not convinced the SK will be able/willing to hit scum anyway). As previously mentioned, I don't really see how town can "Control" the SK since our votes are so awful. I mean, if we all ask the SK to NK a different person, he can do whatever he wants to right? Another point of interest: If you read how C9++ setups are rolled, there can be either 2 OR 3 mafia associated with a 13 player SK game. While I'm aware that this setup is obviously not C9++, I'm assuming the balance would be similar. An interesting note is that I'm guessing the power level of our blue roles is lower than that of those in C9++, which would lead me to believe that a more accurate balance would be 2 scum not 3. This is just speculation. I will point out that if there are only 2 mafia, I expect that they can guess that there is an SK. In that situation, it might be valuable to look and see if anybody "jumped" to the serial killer conclusion (aka already knew). Long post, but TL:DR; My vote stays. | ||
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On February 15 2013 01:10 zarepath wrote: If there are only two scum, SK definitely wants to lynch town tonight. I don't see how we could persuade OO to actually stay in control. Probably right actually. As I said, even though I think scum want to lynch OO pretty bad, so do town. Although its not unreasonable to say that scum might be willing to let OO live another day for a free townie kill. | ||
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On February 15 2013 03:20 warbaby wrote: I'm not quite done talking about the TestSubject/ObviousOne situation. Right now I believe TS's claim, but I'm not sure about OO's SK claim. A few scenarios I don't think we can rule out (although it's very tenuous logic): 1) Both TS and OO are scum, TS is bussing OO in a very elaborate way. OO is not SK, so we still have to deal with 2 night kills after OO flips scum. This seems very unlikely, but would be a huge problem for town. TS can't be scum. Claiming tracker D1 is suicide because he can't know if there will be a tracker counter-claim. Plus he has to bus a buddy who agrees to play along for this to work. No chance. TS is confirmed town tracker, 100%. | ||
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Either way, what now becomes interesting is what happens tomorrow. It will be EITHER 5-3 OR 6-2 depending on setup. However, we can't know which. This is a fascinating situation because I think it may actually call for a no-lynch. Or at least, I don't know yet who I wish to lynch and a No-lynch is remarkably reasonable. In the 5-3 case we go down to 4-3, which is extremely risky but hopefully town should be able to locate the scum in such a situation. In the 6-2 case we go down to 5-2, which isn't even MYLO so town then has a safe mislynch. While town won't know, it doesn't seem that unreasonable. Keep in mind that in the 3-scum case, mislynch tomorrow is GG. | ||
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Could we get a vote count pretty please? Thanks | ||
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@OO You may wish to vote for not-getting-warned purposes (future games and all that). @Mandalor I know you have been around since this all came out. If you would like to weigh in on the ObviousOne situation or even acknowledge it that might be a good idea. | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:24 zarepath wrote: How do you know that it's purposeful? Cuz he keeps doing it. Your random ideas are quite similar as well (ROFL guys WoS made a DT claim...). Both of you are gumming up the thread and making some of the more obvious things really strange. | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:30 warbaby wrote: I've repeatedly stated that I'm happy going with the obvious, simple explanation. But we also need to consider the possibilities, and how they will play out going forward. Anyway I've said more than enough about the OO/TestSubject situation, so I'll drop it for now. I mean, we just discussed this last page where I went through all the possibilities (more or less) and established that OO is anti-town (probably SK but could be scum) and that TS is Tracker. And you agreed with me. Now you decide to crap up the thread with more speculation and casting doubt on the only confirmed town around, all while making sure to confuse the terms "Watcher" and "Tracker". And then announcing that you believe in "Keep it simple". Yeah... | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:40 TestSubject893 wrote: Again, I think sn0_man is making a good point. Warbaby is definitely looking like either scum or poorly played town. Big reads time TS893. Here you call our WB. Cora, your lead scum read as of like 3 posts ago spent all day yesterday campaigning HARD for WB's lynch (probably harder than scum would dare bus D1 but thats WIFOM). Who is scum and who is (bad) town? As a confirmed townie, at least we know your reads aren't scum-biased (although that says nothing about their correctness). | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:56 ObviousOne wrote: I would find it amusing to see a massive vote switch to warbaby. If you don't kill him I will Amusing, yes. Happening, no. I mean, I'd like to see WB dead too ATM, but I really don't think we as town can afford to not lynch you. Its moronic. | ||
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On February 15 2013 07:03 TestSubject893 wrote: Also, while I'm thinking about it, Sevryn, geript, Mandalor and Sylencia are entirely under my radar right now. I don't really have opinions on them and that's bad. Anybody have anything to say about them? Let's not beat up on the more active members just for posting more. Geript is dead... Syl is an interesting case since he claimed RB etc. Sev has picked up his play since Day 1 when I had my vote on him to lynch, but I still think I could lynch him. I'm not sure I get all this Mandalor hate but I'll re-read his (decently short) filter once it matters again. | ||
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Day 1 we durdle around and lynch with 3 votes in a (functionally) 11 player game. Day 2 we have I think 7 out of 10 votes on our target inside 24 hours and just kill time haha. Oh wells. | ||
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On February 15 2013 07:28 cDgCorazon wrote:There are also at least 5-6 votes that were thrown away. Why you guys are only focusing on my vote is beyond me. Its pretty hard to bring a case on 5 people for the same thing when there are only 2-3 scum total. Its a lot easier to bring a case on 1 guy for doing something unique (swapping away from primary scumread that you had tunnelled exclusively all day to ensure that town got lynched). | ||
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On February 15 2013 07:33 cDgCorazon wrote: So what would you have said if I had stayed on Warbaby and it was 2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1? I find it hard to believe that that is how the votes would have stayed. Hypothetically, glurio would still have been lynched and you would be immune from this particular case. | ||
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On February 15 2013 07:43 ObviousOne wrote: Mocsta would be fun to kill tonight too, he was mean to me. You are enjoying being a dead man too much haha. I'm mildly jealous. | ||
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On February 16 2013 01:54 Sevryn wrote: I actually noticed this when I was reading the thread from yesterday But now I cant find the post that had a list of who all was the scum and my name just wasn't in the list which seemed kind of odd seeing how I was to being lynched d1 How non-alignment indicative of you to comment... I mean, for crying out loud make posts that help town. | ||
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On February 16 2013 02:25 Sevryn wrote: not really sheeping I'm just calling what I think is odd townie motivated behavior and wanted your reasoning which I missed in that post. so you think any case made now would lose traction so we just shouldn't discuss d3 until its d3? He is just sour that we didn't lynch Warbaby day 1. So he thinks its because he raised his case too early D1 when in reality its because nobody wanted to lynch warbaby D1, partially because WB fixed up his play and partially because at least WB was playing (unlike certain other people). | ||
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GGs, thanks for playing so... amicably | ||
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My 2 cents. I'll be filter diving tomorrow, too lazy today. Actually tomorrow is weekend so I may be too lazy then as well. Sometime before next lynch is the goal So much crap being tossed around in this thread, at this point I think that EVERYBODY should seriously consider just taking the time to read a filter or 2 seriously. If 2 people call each other scummy, well that doesn't make progress (he said/she said doesn't get us anywhere). The night actions tonight will hopefully be revealing. | ||
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This is my before-bed post don't expect answers for another indeterminately long period. | ||
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On February 18 2013 23:42 Sevryn wrote: Sylencia here are my thoughts after reading his filter Sylencia starts off by posting the chances of hitting town with RNG lynch making it clear he is not going to scumhunt and instead getting ezpz town cred. States the obvious with warbabys claim that we all knew. talked definitivly with "when he doesnt die on night 1" which leads me to think he had knowledge of the kill target. than he continues with more talk of warbaby with some setup speculation thrown in there. where is the scum hunting? these are just empty posts that he doesn't take anywhere. All of his pressure on Warbaby is summaries of his play no questioning his motives with OMGUS posts which is just classic scum play. Of course town will survival vote but it is much better to play more town oriented and not have to rely on it. because hey(scum will survival vote as well) He automatically decides its a scum RB. how does he know the JK doesnt exist while the RB does? he also points out a frame possibility which seems kind of odd if I was RB I wouldn't think "ohh this is me being frameda obviously" first. why is he ready to speculate about things he couldn't possibly know as town? All game he tunnels warbaby(while applying very weak pressure) with a foundation of a scum slip which is a really weak case that gets dismissed which is perfect for scum to look like they are contributing. makes a big post about the RB person to step up right before saying he got blocked a sec afterwards. and then we are right back to the being framed thing. so basically sylencia has no real contributions. He has had a game of weak tunneling on warbaby with no real pressure and the rest is setup/role speculation with no outcome or saying he has been roleblocked and framed to be scum. You can have problems with my play but I have tried to be heard when my posts are getting ignored. you attack me because I put what I think outthere and you dont like my opinion. with syl he is just blending in. its probably LYLO and he isn't doing anything to help town. We need to lynch this scum ##vote sylencia His old case on glurio: On February 12 2013 13:43 Sevryn wrote: Guys, warbaby is getting discussed to death and my comments to Glurio are getting buried. Can we please discuss something new, these are my points on his case to Sno_Man. - why did he show all of snos post hes just trying to look like hes trying hard to scumhunt, but is the same as if we just read his filter. -his question about the bolded part of one of snos posts " Why wouldn't scum tell the town what exactly they should be looking for and just avoid exactly these things?" is just useless rhetoric and he obviously isnt trying to achieve anything with it -hes also defending himself when no case or anything was made against him so hes preemptively getting ready to be accused by pretending to have gotten attacked. lastly while he made a big case that doesnt say much he still has barely any posts so hes doing exactly what he claimed not be doing which is actively lurk. Glurio is scum ##vote: Glurio | ||
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On February 19 2013 04:48 cDgCorazon wrote: Where are you going with this, Sn0? What kind of question is this? Honestly this sounds a lot more like scum trying to determine the threat level to his buddy than it does town trying to figure out what I'm trying to imply. Isn't it obvious that this looks bad, since Sevryn STARTED the "wagon" (lol bad term) on glurio day 1 and day 2 hes using fairly similar WIFOM to push another easy target. Admittedly the new case is a bit better than the first one but that is to be expected (and could stem from some help in a scum QT?). It isn't like all the stuff I just mentioned makes a complete case by itself, but I wanted to point out the similarity of the 2 cases, one of which ended in mislynch. | ||
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However, I don't see who else we can actually lynch at this point, and TBH i'm decently happy with his lynch now. If we lose on the spot I kinda feel like the setup is dumb XD. BTW @mocsta complaining about no watcher on TS isn't quite fair because at this point mafia could be using a godfather to kill. So even if watcher watched TS he may have seen nothing. Although we could definitely just not have a watcher at this point as well. ##Vote: Sylencia | ||
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OFC, we don't know scum even has a godfather, but we don't know if we have a watcher either. | ||
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On February 19 2013 09:09 zarepath wrote: Not to start throwing crap around, but Sn0 is really prepping for an end-of-game mislynch. I'm very worried about a game ending mislynch yes. | ||
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Not sure I like the chances here. I'm re-reading important parts of the game but I'm not sure I see the value in tossing out any observations just yet. | ||
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On February 20 2013 00:46 cDgCorazon wrote: The lack of activity from you and Sn0 has been a huge factor into why we are in such deep shit. Did you want this to happen? Possible, but unlikely. I'm not particularly sure what I was gonna contribute given the current theme of this town which is: I can say whatever I want and the lynches boil down to popularity contests. I'm not actually good at finding scum in this game, but I will say that both OO and TS, who knew they were gonna die the next action (lynch then NK) both tabbed me as the towniest player in the game. While this may have been before my long AFK period, I like to think that if ALL of town could be as blatantly town as I, it would be a lot easier to nail the scum. Process of elimination and all that. That doesn't really excuse everything, but at the same time if every town played my game we would probably be very near victory by now so take that for what you will. I'm unsure why you think that me and ZP posting at similar times is even remotely relevant? We both live in NA. | ||
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I'm still dubious as to the balance behind this setup...  | ||
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XD | ||
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Mislynch twice, lose on the spot. Sure our analysis could have been better, but the fact is we basically have to let the SK live and hope he hits scum or else we just lose. Because 2 mislynches simply isn't enough space for town (especially newer towns). I mean, we get super-lucky to have our tracker hit an anti-town role on his first guess, and we still are in basically unwinnable position from N1 on. Maybe if our vet manned up and took a bullet somewhere? but even then scum had the RB to stop that. It hurts more that we had a Harmful-to-town role on our side (me the nosy neighbor) and a dumbed-down power role (tracker) instead of medic/JK/cop. I dunno, I just felt like town never had a real chance in this game. Closer to 1/10 than 1/3. Admittedly I'm biased and fresh off a loss, but this is what it looks like right now | ||
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On February 20 2013 02:55 Dandel Ion wrote: Scum RB doesn't stop Vet. Vet is passive. Not to be a douche, but did you read the OP Dandel? This is the second time you have disagreed with what was openly stated in the OP. On February 20 2013 02:55 Dandel Ion wrote: Since the SK only shot once (and as I understand it, also tried to hit scum), you can pretend it was a vig. Vig hits townie. 3 (effective) mislynches. Vet doesn't get shot. It was kind of a worst-case scenario for town, but shit happens. So if we pretend OO was vig, then you recommend we don't lynch the SK and just let scum RB the SK all day? I guess that KINDA turns him into a vig but a vig who doesn't actually want town to win... (with the semi-plus of vet status?). I just don't see how our only active power role hitting on his first try ends up as "Worst case scenario" for town On February 20 2013 03:06 zarepath wrote: My new policy lynch is to policy lynch Mocsta. Feels that way. | ||
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Lesson learned though: I guess town has to keep the SK alive all game to have a hope of victory in the future. Gotcha. Although OO seemed to be pretty far off the mark on who to shoot anyway (not that anybody really had better ideas). Even if we hit Mand/Sev, I still see mocsta winning the game eventually since at some point town HAS to lynch the SK. I do want to point out that all the analysis of keeping the SK alive in the obs qt thread kinda forgets that he can be perma-roleblocked by scum. | ||
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On February 20 2013 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote: imo town's biggest mistake was all of D2. It's fine to park your votes on the almost confirmed SK but that doesn't mean you can't set your sights on a scum lynch in the meantime (if you feel confident that you've found one of course.) Most of town was scummier than the scumteam. | ||
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On February 20 2013 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote: if you're trying to suggest that mafia didn't deserve the win, or that you yourself are above how you've generalized all of town's play then you're quite wrong i could feel your rage after the silly D1 lynch and thought you were town because of it, but with your "this town is terrible" attitude you put on for the rest of the game you were definitely contributing to the negative town atmosphere I didn't see a way to make town play decently, so I got super lazy. I'm aware this isn't good town play. I still don't see a way I could have won the game (esp. not with this setup). I'm honestly not bitter about losing anymore, (although I was sour for a bit), but I'm curious as to real suggestions as to how I could have pursued a victory as well as some thoughts as to how town in general can hope to ever win in a 9-3-1 setup. | ||
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On February 20 2013 04:57 zarepath wrote: Sn0 go sign up for This Town Ain'T Big Enough Mafia I was really tempted. I don't really think its a good idea though. I'm out of town with no internet for most of this upcoming weekend. Over that time I'd be lucky to get in an unexplained vote (although I guess in the duel format I most likely wouldn't need to defend myself in that period of time). The setup looks awesome although I'm worried I'd complain about it at endgame (given how I complained about NMM35 even when it made us win rofl). | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:01 zarepath wrote: We had a 2-in-3 shot on Day 3 and just didn't know it. A little more rigor when Sylencia seemed too easy of a lynch is all it would've taken. I feel like I personally could have switched the vote onto Mandalor if I had taken the time and effort. Eh... I mentioned how easy the lynch was on Syl but at the very beginning of that day there were instantly 2 votes on Sevryn from players scummy enough that I didn't think a lynch on him was gonna be any better in terms of "no resistance" (hell, I bet you mocsta would have bussed Sev pretty hard if his Syl vote got no traction). Which leaves mandalor as the one that wasn't "too easy" but I fail to see what makes mandalor a better target, really. Most of his extremely sparse filter didn't look any worse than the others, and his IRL excuse for no contribution was better than Syl's "I always contribute nothing" excuse. | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote: When does the next NMM begin? I want to play my 3 already so I can play in a game where more than half the players actually participate. You are free to sign up for TL Mafia LX which explicitly states that signups are open to everybody. The goal of NMM games is to allow players to familiarize themselves with TL forum mafia as a whole (and hopefully brush up their skills) with access to coaches etc. | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:23 cDgCorazon wrote: You can just tell I get more frustrated as the game goes on. You sounded pretty darn frustrated day 1 when we wouldn't lynch warbaby... if it got worse from there then I don't know what to say. On February 20 2013 05:23 cDgCorazon wrote: Lastly, I made 3 crumbs. Did anyone pick up on them? Not I. | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:27 Mocsta wrote: But yes the SK slip was bad in the con text that I knew he wasn't scum...but it was genuinely based on TS being solely focused on SK/vig I read that post about 5 times trying to decide whether the "Mr SK" part was pre-knowledge or just mocsta being in-your-face and confident even when he's wrong. Decided the latter... Whoops. | ||
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Day 2 you didn't exactly "guide" us to the OO lynch. It was the only reasonable lynch because we still couldn't prove he wasn't scum. Admittedly we probably had a better chance of winning if we left OO alive but I don't see how any newbie town ever actually lets him live. Personally, I lynched him on the grounds that we can't win if it isn't a 2-scum setup so I might as well do what benefits us most if it was a 2-scum setup. Day 3 was a joke. I would happily have lynched every non-me player there. Admittedly you artfully dodged the early Sevryn momentum, but once again this is a gift to you from awful town. Even if we lynch Sevryn I don't think there are any particular ties to him that save us from future mislynches. Its not like you didn't have a plethora of easy mislynch targets floating around. AKA you played well, and you put a ton of effort in, and good for you, but you a) got lucky with the vet-status SK being outed so early and b) probably couldn't lose to our town anyway PS: I still don't see the balance behind 9-3-1 setups >_> | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:48 Mocsta wrote: P.s. sevryn was due to be lynched day1 Until I setup glurio. A) Syl was gonna be lynched for quite a while. Either way most of town was rushing to throw their vote as far away from relevance as possible so I honestly don't see the skill here. Victory yes, but not exactly a play of the year or anything. On February 20 2013 05:48 Mocsta wrote: Priorities are: Establish innocence 2. Scum hunt 3. Be pro town Many of my contributions were 3. Aligned and its really easy to fake.. I don't believe I made a case the whole game. This was another big difference from the other game I played with you as scum that made me hesitate to bring any kind of case against you. Last time you were throwing out cases everywhere Obviously my mistake but still. WP. | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:59 Mocsta wrote: Hopefully this explains why policy lurker lynch sucks Its just a medium for enabling discussion but shouldn't replace scum hunting How do we get Mandalor/Sevryn if they just lurk? we *have* to lynch lurkers because, once again, 2/3 scum resided there. The issue is that so many lazy town live there as well that it becomes pretty hard to win. I mean, my day 1 vote ON SCUM was a "policy lurker lynch" vote but it was reasoned and aimed at the player I most thought was scum. Dunno what you want town to do, forget about all the lurkers and tear the active players apart? Thats how we almost lost last NMM. Lurker lynch is extremely justifiable, you just have to choose the right lurker. | ||
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On February 20 2013 06:02 Promethelax wrote: Policy lynches are wonderful, they enforce the way townies must play and therefore how scum have to play. I love lynch all lurkers (which is different than LAL which is for liars). I don't like how the sk balances in minis but it does balance, you actually gain more by leaving him alive for a while. He needs to hit scum after three townies are dead. His only hope of winning after being found out is a kingmaker scenario. Holding the SK alive is pretty hopeless for town. Scum can RB him forever, or let him fire if they think he will miss. Plus town can't know if he is actually the SK (because again, if he was scum the real SK would obviously never claim and OO would still claim SK to try and survive). Unless we had a certain scum candidate to hit, we basically have to take out OO in case he flips scum. | ||
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At least, for the first 12 hours or so. I'm too lazy to see how long it lasted, but you definitely did clean it up before the end of day 1. | ||
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On February 20 2013 08:24 marvellosity wrote: too many players in this post-game blaming town's failure on others and not themselves. Meh. I don't really care what you think, if the obs QT has their leading scum candidate at MYLO as our only remaining blue role and for most of the game (although not at the very end) I'm the only person on every town list around then I'm content with my play. I know I'm not the best at discerning who is scum, but If I can prove myself town early and have stuff to work with I feel like my contribution to town is acceptable. Could I have played better Day 3? duh... but it wouldn't change anything barring super scumhunting techniques that I simply don't possess. On February 20 2013 08:27 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band, where SK shot at town every night he was alive. Wherein you had a knowable setup and wildly better roles in general as town. Plus town clearly played well and nailed scum non-stop, including getting the RB N2. Contrasted with a newbie setup which was not deducible, which had substantially weaker roles, and which had 2 replacements after night 1. In which you have such quality plays as voting for a clearly unlynchable 0-vote lurker as town because you don't want to look scummy. I will cede the point that you did, in fact, win a town game with 9-3-1 though. | ||
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On February 20 2013 09:06 WaveofShadow wrote: Please, Sn0, tell me how you really feel. Newbie games exist for a reason, bro. ? Just commenting that maybe a 2-mislynch = instaloss type setup might be bad for newbie games featuring such plays. I know you have learned from it, and I'm fine with that. I don't hold it against you any more than any other play made by others that ended up with the impossibility of town victory (despite marv the clairvoyant being able to solve any game). | ||
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On February 20 2013 09:11 ObviousOne wrote: I'll say it again, D2 was fun for me! <3 Probably the best part of the game for me too actually. That kind of setup stuff is what interests me the most about mafia. And your posts were pretty golden. | ||
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On February 21 2013 07:35 warbaby wrote: No, I included you and myself in that reference. The entire town derped hard | ||
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On February 22 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote: I loled just a little. It appears buttons have been pressed, Town has collectively bitched incessantly about everything in the game without any person reasonably taking blame upon themselves except zare (who seriously deserves a lot less than most other players). I'm not sure that that indicates much learning, which is kinda the goal of Newbie games no? (Okay hilarity is another goal). | ||
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