|
On January 29 2013 21:01 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 18:44 Toadesstern wrote:
Marv, Axle might be back on the list... He's apparently not what everyone agreed him to be. Then we should absolutely be lynching Axle. His activity has dropped off a cliff. ##Vote: Axlegreaser
what do you make off what I said about Vivax and your defense of Annul?
Because even if axle is mafia, that still means mocsta was town, that still means mafia could have gotten Goznaw into office any time they wanted.
So there was a reason for them to not do that like "we don't want to have all votes on gonzaw d1" or whatever it is, it doesn't matter.
Mocsta completly nullifies the defense on Annul you and Vivax thought about because the same thing could be said about EVERYONE in the game.
"why didn't chez vote gonzaw? he could have made him sheriff!"
"why didn't Bugs vote gonzaw? he could have made him sheriff!"
"why didn't Toad vote gonzaw? he could have made him sheriff!"
"why didn't Yamato vote gonzaw? he could have made him sheriff!"
clearly you have to agree that with that knowledge there is no point in mentioning it about Annul, now is there?
|
Yeah, considering on Axle's general posting patterns in the newbie that he played, in which pretty much it died after night 2, he posted a LOT.
Here, not so much.
Also, Im totally ignoring his posts cause I cant understand them
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
Oats, would you please look at who you're bloody posting under.
I agree it's not a strong point Toad. I also agree with your list of 3.
|
On January 29 2013 21:18 BinOnFire wrote:
Yeah, considering on Axle's general posting patterns in the newbie that he played, in which pretty much it died after night 2, he posted a LOT.
Here, not so much.
Also, Im totally ignoring his posts cause I cant understand them
HOW IS IT SO HARD?? //
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 29 2013 21:20 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 21:18 BinOnFire wrote:
Yeah, considering on Axle's general posting patterns in the newbie that he played, in which pretty much it died after night 2, he posted a LOT.
Here, not so much.
Also, Im totally ignoring his posts cause I cant understand them HOW IS IT SO HARD?? //
Here's a clue: it isn't
|
Also if Axle isn't the medic his "medic-like"-posts sound a lot like mafia because he's thinking about medics so much.
Remember:- He was FURIOUS about me jailing bugs instead of Sandro (reason #1 I thought he's medic)
- He wrote twice that "that's when I thought I understood the medic plan" or something like that, which again, made me think he's a medic for thinking about that. (reason #2, #3 to think he's a medic)
- He apologized for screwing up twice as well and said the mistake was on him when talking about
- my jail n1 and that he should have listened to what I said instead of what bugs said
- my jail n2 when I was so furious about bugs dying when I made it perfectly clear that I need protection on bugs
that's reason #4 and #5 for thinking he was a medic
- He kept on talking about the medic thing NONSTOP and nothing else, which is reason #6 I thought he's a medic
Now if we take all that into consideration and with the knowledge that he in fact isn't a medic he thinks about medics an awful lot for apparently no reason.
He also tried to figure out the "medic plan" I did n1 and n2. Why would you do that unless you're a medic yourself?
I REALLY thought the guy is just a bad townie who kept blabbering about his role and can't keep his mouth shut and ignored the fact that he's not contributing both because I was damn certain about him being a medic and because being focused about a role (medic) like that is something new guys do if they happen to have that role themselves...
Bugs thought the same thing, I told marv about it and he INSTANTLY agreed and said it's so obvious now that I mentioned it in mason-chat, which is the reason he changed from axle being probably mafia to axle being probably town so suddenly.
Now that we know he is no medic it looks an awful lot like someone trying to contribute something (talk about medics) when it doesn't do a thing for us. At all.
On top of that he is really focused about who ends up being medic'ed / jailed and there's obvious mafia reason to think about that a lot. I don't see a lot of reasons for townies to think about that stuff unless you're involved yourself (aka: you are the medic).
|
also a maybe minor point that could be confirmation bias, so I want your take on that one but I considered it odd:
Here's our pm's, read all of them starting with the one nested the most (it's not much):
+ Show Spoiler +Original Message From AxleGreaser: Yes I am a Townie, I have no powers i quoted the OP, where it says Townie. TownieYou may just be a normal player but you are the backbone of the town. Your goal is to help bring the Mafia to justice. You get no special powers but the ability to vote during day. Blue Roles may look pretty but the real power lies with you! Show nested quote +Original Message From Toadesstern: I want to know your ROLE not your alignment, unless you're claiming VT. Original Message From AxleGreaser: That is plausible.... so far I like that. Ok I was going to demand to know where your probable information came from... but that would be one step too far. I am .... Townie Original Message From Toadesstern: I don't want you to claim in the thread... Why would you want to claim in the thread. I want to confirm my knowledge and for that I need you to claim to me and I don't want everyone else knowing it... Original Message From AxleGreaser: Original Message From Toadesstern:
Hey there I masoned you. If you have skype you can give me your skype info and we talk in skype instead of pms.
Anyways I have an important question for you: I need you to claim to me. Right now. No arguing, do it.
You might get lynched if you don't and I can confirm whether you're telling the truth so go ahead. No I don't have skype. I am probably quite happy to claim in the thread instead... it does not seem to have got anyone else killed. being killed is not the problem catching scum is. Why do you need me to claim to you? If you already know I am town, then I wont be lying. If you already know I am scum, then why ask.
I don't know, but I consider the phrase Yes I am a Townie, I have no powers i quoted the OP, where it says Townie
Really odd. Yeah I asked him again to be sure on this one but it feels like to much emphasize on quoting the OP. Why quoting the OP to begin with, why not your pm? Yeah I know... no quoting role-pm's and stuff but come on, when you roleclaim you copy & paste your role from your rolepm and not from the OP... unless it's different because in that case it really could be considered quoting the phrasing of your pm.
But it really does sound like "see? I did not make a mistake! Totally says so in the OP!" to me.
|
On January 29 2013 21:01 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 18:44 Toadesstern wrote:
Marv, Axle might be back on the list... He's apparently not what everyone agreed him to be. Then we should absolutely be lynching Axle. His activity has dropped off a cliff. ##Vote: Axlegreaser
And you think that is probably all the argument that you need. You probably don't even need to say its scummy?
Just Lynch him?
However those interested in lynching scum might like to examine the data and make a case.....
When did it fall off the Cliff? (
Well I suppose we could look in my filter at say Time stamps....
and not look for the answer you are trying to make but to find out what happened....
)
This distracted me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17602219
It fell off the Cliff when After playing for 7hrs... + Show Spoiler +
I found what I thought was bad play by Toad that let the D1 kill happen.
That it also killed the person who had talked to Toad and first established his towness also alarmed me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17603035
I then posted about that and argued with Toad but the argument went nowhere and no one else saw the point.
By here I was done with that point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17603256
worked on another 6 hrs (Yeah thats about 13 hrs now...)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17605596
and thus I was tired but went to bed but did not sleep well because something was wrong....
Eventually at some point while sleeping
5 Hrs later I wake up.... realize how it went wrong with toad and got up.
and make post to try and clear up the misunderstanding.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17607106
and yeah that great big session actually 1/ wore me out and 2/ was kinda discouraging.
Also Real life then had a debt owing to it...
So yeah since then I have kept life and the game in perspective. That is scummy is it?
Also D1.... The full confusing effects of your mason network were not yet messing stuff up for me.
D2 and on the trust inside the mason network was high. This lead to it being very hard for me to read
some things. Five Touch has said himself that he was modifying Yamato77 behavior and prevent stuff
from happening. Consider from my perspective of trying get reads on Yamatos77 Intentions that makes it just little
bit harder, a little more frustrating. .... and yeah there is even more reasons...
So yep my activity dropped of cliff.
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 29 2013 21:29 Toadesstern wrote:Also if Axle isn't the medic his "medic-like"-posts sound a lot like mafia because he's thinking about medics so much. Remember:- He was FURIOUS about me jailing bugs instead of Sandro (reason #1 I thought he's medic)
- He wrote twice that "that's when I thought I understood the medic plan" or something like that, which again, made me think he's a medic for thinking about that. (reason #2, #3 to think he's a medic)
- He apologized for screwing up twice as well and said the mistake was on him when talking about
- my jail n1 and that he should have listened to what I said instead of what bugs said
- my jail n2 when I was so furious about bugs dying when I made it perfectly clear that I need protection on bugs
that's reason #4 and #5 for thinking he was a medic
- He kept on talking about the medic thing NONSTOP and nothing else, which is reason #6 I thought he's a medic
Now if we take all that into consideration and with the knowledge that he in fact isn't a medic he thinks about medics an awful lot for apparently no reason. He also tried to figure out the "medic plan" I did n1 and n2. Why would you do that unless you're a medic yourself? I REALLY thought the guy is just a bad townie who kept blabbering about his role and can't keep his mouth shut and ignored the fact that he's not contributing both because I was damn certain about him being a medic and because being focused about a role (medic) like that is something new guys do if they happen to have that role themselves... Bugs thought the same thing, I told marv about it and he INSTANTLY agreed and said it's so obvious now that I mentioned it in mason-chat, which is the reason he changed from axle being probably mafia to axle being probably town so suddenly. Now that we know he is no medic it looks an awful lot like someone trying to contribute something (talk about medics) when it doesn't do a thing for us. At all. On top of that he is really focused about who ends up being medic'ed / jailed and there's obvious mafia reason to think about that a lot. I don't see a lot of reasons for townies to think about that stuff unless you're involved yourself (aka: you are the medic).
Basically I agree with this whole post.
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
So anyway, let's kill Axle. And annul you need to answer this properly.
On January 29 2013 21:03 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 18:48 annul wrote:On January 29 2013 10:21 FiveTouch wrote:This desperately needs answering, by the way. On January 29 2013 07:26 FiveTouch wrote:annul: During night 2, you asked this: On January 26 2013 02:25 annul wrote:
hey WBG and fivetouch and toad
who are your top three scum reads pl0x bugs and toad gave you Chez/BKE/fuba, I gave you Chez/BKE/axlegreaser Knowing that we were 99% likely going to lynch Chez/BKE day 3, why on earth did you put your bomb on Chezinu? On January 27 2013 11:03 annul wrote:On January 27 2013 10:27 Stutters695 wrote:
Annul forgive me if this has been asked and I missed it, but why did you keep your bomb on Chezinu through n2? He was a pretty clear top candidate as soon as the d2 flip happened. Wouldn't it have made sense to move it to one of the other scummy people who probably wouldn't be lynched? if i died, i wanted to take a mafia with me. Why on earth would you die? How would you die? Why would you put your bomb on someone who is going to die already?
|
I don't see what's hard to understand about my post:
On January 29 2013 12:00 Vivax wrote:
For prplhz it made sense to not get one of them elected, it would look super fishy after his lynch.
He could have managed to elect gonzaw or austin into position together with Chez.
If you think about it, a townie in pole position like both of them could be effectively framed by getting elected this way by a scum right before dying.
That actually speaks for austinmcc being scum cause they were afraid of forcing his election.
When Toad was leading in votes as sheriff, they could have stopped his election by electing gonzaw.
They didn't do that despite gonzaw being scum, that means they had no interest in getting one of theirs in over Toad, or they were too scared of creating such a connection.
It can mean two things:
→ Toad is scum.
→ They were afraid of electing gonzaw like that.
→ Toad is town and they didn't give a fuck about framing townies or getting one of theirs elected.
Then, there's austin.
For the case that austin is town, they could have elected him over Toad with prplhz's vote, effectively framing him and stopping Toad from getting the spot, they didn't do that, it means:
→ Toad is scum.
→ They were afraid of electing austin like that, just like gonzaw.
→ Austin is town and they didn't think about framing austin like that and preferred Toad over austin anyway.
→ Toad is town and they didn't give a fuck about framing townies or getting one of theirs elected.
|
Fuck me, I really cant read Axle's posting,
Toad mind quoting where you think axle is soft-claiming medic?
The Pm you quoted I think is probably the nail though.
|
On January 29 2013 19:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
why? he only has three jails. if he used it last night, we know he has no jail left.
Are you kidding me. Giving scum info=bad.
Toad, how big of a mason cycle are you in?
how is this giving scum info
its in the OP
|
On January 29 2013 21:03 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 18:48 annul wrote:On January 29 2013 10:21 FiveTouch wrote:This desperately needs answering, by the way. On January 29 2013 07:26 FiveTouch wrote:annul: During night 2, you asked this: On January 26 2013 02:25 annul wrote:
hey WBG and fivetouch and toad
who are your top three scum reads pl0x bugs and toad gave you Chez/BKE/fuba, I gave you Chez/BKE/axlegreaser Knowing that we were 99% likely going to lynch Chez/BKE day 3, why on earth did you put your bomb on Chezinu? On January 27 2013 11:03 annul wrote:On January 27 2013 10:27 Stutters695 wrote:
Annul forgive me if this has been asked and I missed it, but why did you keep your bomb on Chezinu through n2? He was a pretty clear top candidate as soon as the d2 flip happened. Wouldn't it have made sense to move it to one of the other scummy people who probably wouldn't be lynched? if i died, i wanted to take a mafia with me. Why on earth would you die? How would you die? Why would you put your bomb on someone who is going to die already?
how i'd die: through NKs
why i'd die: who knows wtf the mafia is doing?
explanation for the bombing (for the third time):
On January 29 2013 18:49 annul wrote:
and i thought i could convince the town that the logic was sound to get off of chez (assuming BKE was red... which we ALL did, nearly unanimously). my persuasive skills are bad apparently.
|
On January 29 2013 21:29 Toadesstern wrote:
Also if Axle isn't the medic his "medic-like"-posts sound a lot like mafia because he's thinking about medics so much.
Remember:[list][*]He was FURIOUS about me jailing bugs instead of Sandro (reason #1 I thought he's medic)
NO NO NO
As I politely said discreetly, I was upset when a smurfing vet
posted their read list AFTER the death knell there were various fluff posts but that was game related...
Then edited the read list twice (well actually by editing the external site where the reads were stored, which does not even leave mark that it was edited....) yeah apparently that is just what happens?
Sorry I like rules. I try hard to play by them. I felt real bad every time I rule derped in XXXII.
That was emotion still there later when I analysed Toads post, it will have potentially caused him to misread me.
Have good look at the intent in the three posts following here...
If as I thought at the time I was right (and Toad should have saved Sandroba?) what was I trying to do?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17602898
First get Toad to commit to just what Sandroba had said
then present what I thought to be sound logic.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17603035
Fail = yes. Intent = Hunt.
=======
"He also tried to figure out the "medic plan" I did n1 and n2. Why would you do that unless you're a medic yourself?"
Guess what I thought about them before the game too... FFS
Well from my point of view, you do remember I have one..., it is always possible you are scum as such it is my job to check that you are doing what you ought do. When I found that I thought you had not I called you out for it. It is called scum hunting. When i found I had Derped, I got up and came and said so before the damage if any it was doing got worse.
So no What I tried to figure out what if the people with the roles I knew (Toad) who might be scum used them properly or feigned effort.
Finally note: I will think about medics and the like every game of mafia I play as every role... I thus suggest you decide to always Policy Lynch Axle for thinking, because I will be.
What you will find however is I wont post about them without what looks like a reason to me. And even then... not at night.
Would you care to go back through the actual thread and start Lynching all the myriad of people that not only thought about but also talked about medics and jailers and .... and then just as priority start lynching the ones that talk about them and what they ought be doing at night...
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 29 2013 22:46 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 21:03 FiveTouch wrote:On January 29 2013 18:48 annul wrote:On January 29 2013 10:21 FiveTouch wrote:This desperately needs answering, by the way. On January 29 2013 07:26 FiveTouch wrote:annul: During night 2, you asked this: On January 26 2013 02:25 annul wrote:
hey WBG and fivetouch and toad
who are your top three scum reads pl0x bugs and toad gave you Chez/BKE/fuba, I gave you Chez/BKE/axlegreaser Knowing that we were 99% likely going to lynch Chez/BKE day 3, why on earth did you put your bomb on Chezinu? On January 27 2013 11:03 annul wrote:On January 27 2013 10:27 Stutters695 wrote:
Annul forgive me if this has been asked and I missed it, but why did you keep your bomb on Chezinu through n2? He was a pretty clear top candidate as soon as the d2 flip happened. Wouldn't it have made sense to move it to one of the other scummy people who probably wouldn't be lynched? if i died, i wanted to take a mafia with me. Why on earth would you die? How would you die? Why would you put your bomb on someone who is going to die already? how i'd die: through NKs why i'd die: who knows wtf the mafia is doing? explanation for the bombing (for the third time): Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 18:49 annul wrote:
and i thought i could convince the town that the logic was sound to get off of chez (assuming BKE was red... which we ALL did, nearly unanimously). my persuasive skills are bad apparently.
So effectively your argument is that in the miniscule eventuality you get killed on Night 2, you were going to blow up a mafia that was certainly going to die anyway the next day.
Right?
|
Gonzaw:
→ Toad is scum. (Based on Toad's D2 targets I can't imagine he's scum)
→ They were afraid of electing gonzaw like that.
→ Toad is town and they didn't give a fuck about framing townies or getting one of theirs elected. (I'm pretty sure they did give a fuck)
Austin:
→ Toad is scum.
→ They were afraid of electing austin like that, just like gonzaw.
→ Austin is town and they didn't think about framing austin like that and preferred Toad as townie over austin anyway.
→ Toad is town and they didn't give a fuck about framing townies or getting one of theirs elected.
|
On January 29 2013 21:47 Toadesstern wrote:also a maybe minor point that could be confirmation bias, so I want your take on that one but I considered it odd: Here's our pm's, read all of them starting with the one nested the most (it's not much): + Show Spoiler +Original Message From AxleGreaser: Yes I am a Townie, I have no powers i quoted the OP, where it says Townie. TownieYou may just be a normal player but you are the backbone of the town. Your goal is to help bring the Mafia to justice. You get no special powers but the ability to vote during day. Blue Roles may look pretty but the real power lies with you! Show nested quote +Original Message From Toadesstern: I want to know your ROLE not your alignment, unless you're claiming VT. Original Message From AxleGreaser: That is plausible.... so far I like that. Ok I was going to demand to know where your probable information came from... but that would be one step too far. I am .... Townie Original Message From Toadesstern: I don't want you to claim in the thread... Why would you want to claim in the thread. I want to confirm my knowledge and for that I need you to claim to me and I don't want everyone else knowing it... Original Message From AxleGreaser: Original Message From Toadesstern:
Hey there I masoned you. If you have skype you can give me your skype info and we talk in skype instead of pms.
Anyways I have an important question for you: I need you to claim to me. Right now. No arguing, do it.
You might get lynched if you don't and I can confirm whether you're telling the truth so go ahead. No I don't have skype. I am probably quite happy to claim in the thread instead... it does not seem to have got anyone else killed. being killed is not the problem catching scum is. Why do you need me to claim to you? If you already know I am town, then I wont be lying. If you already know I am scum, then why ask. I don't know, but I consider the phrase Really odd. Yeah I asked him again to be sure on this one but it feels like to much emphasize on quoting the OP. Why quoting the OP to begin with, why not your pm? Yeah I know... no quoting role-pm's and stuff but come on, when you roleclaim you copy & paste your role from your rolepm and not from the OP... unless it's different because in that case it really could be considered quoting the phrasing of your pm. But it really does sound like "see? I did not make a mistake! Totally says so in the OP!" to me.
Because I am not familiar with whats what with Jargon I forgot that Townie is not just the name of the role in this game but also a generic word.
I am townie means (I am one of the kinds of towns, in generic usage) I used it to claim my role.
And yes the even very first PM to be sure i got it right I looked at the OP not my PM.
You required clarification, remembering we are in this mess due to failure to communicate accurately.... I did
so I was both precise, and obeyed da rules, remember i have thing about those....
You may however feel free to do " when you roleclaim you copy & paste your role from your rolepm and not from the OP..." I wont ever.
|
On January 29 2013 22:32 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck me, I really cant read Axle's posting,
Toad mind quoting where you think axle is soft-claiming medic?
The Pm you quoted I think is probably the nail though.
basicly every single post he did?
A little summary:
D2, after Sandro died:
+ Show Spoiler +I thought i had worked out the vet strategy on protects via Bugs post... to stop them ovelapping by centering the Doc and the Sherrif protects on diff people. The one thing I knew and I thought scum knew was Sand was getting protected. Having said that do you think the doc if there is one might be more likely than random to take your advice.
If so is putting the Sherrif just where the doc had been told to go was suboptimal Yeah?
Toad seems to think you were the best protect but gave the stupidest advice to the thread Huh? Sorry did you indicate what youd be doing at all?
I expect you did not.
In the absence of information how can doc try and dodge doubling up with you better than chance?
Well if they do the one thing some suggested you should not that would be better than nothing. Absolutely, we should NOT discuss who we are protecting tonight Last night that didn't work out at all well.
However Bugs DID
Then Toad Conveniently did what was maximally bad and most likely to result in Sherrif and a Doc if there is one protecting the same person. If you consider Bugs important enough to protect because he is good at this game.
Then wouldn't some doc somewhere think so too.
if the docs going to protect someone why would the Doc do the opposite to you and protect Sandro?
Yes you should not telegraph your moves to scum.
But putting your Sherrif's jail keep in the one place most likely a Doc will as well is silly.
But you can divide the protect-able pile in two a bit and try not to screw up by protecting the most likely person the doc if there is one would protect.
screw this... I don't feel like searching for more stuff, that's just 3 posts and his posts are so hard to read... some stuff I quoted in mason chat:
+ Show Spoiler [no idea from where] +and yeah by then i was so tunneled that Bugs had the plan and the rest was fluff suggestions that I thought I understood the game, then some how it didn't happen. Well it didn't happen because you said in the thread it would not happen.
Well more precisely you said, you wouldn't say what you were doing and that Docs had to cover the whole field too.
And yeah in bold by the guy with the role, said that so that trumps all.
And yeah it does not matter that if with docs and jailers you are better off statistically splitting the puddles to get fewer protection collisions, the guy with the role said he would....
So Derp me
read THIS post. It's what made me almost go "okay screw this, I'm not going to mason axle, there's no way he's not the medic"
However axle said he's willing to lynch gonzaw before the red check when bugs asked him about. Have to reread that one to understand the situation.
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 29 2013 23:02 Vivax wrote:
Gonzaw:
→ Toad is scum. (Based on Toad's D2 targets I can't imagine he's scum)
→ They were afraid of electing gonzaw like that.
→ Toad is town and they didn't give a fuck about framing townies or getting one of theirs elected. (I'm pretty sure they did give a fuck)
Austin:
→ Toad is scum.
→ They were afraid of electing austin like that, just like gonzaw.
→ Austin is town and they didn't think about framing austin like that and preferred Toad as townie over austin anyway.
→ Toad is town and they didn't give a fuck about framing townies or getting one of theirs elected.
Vivax, this is all working on the rather wonky promise that mafia want to elect town into elected positions. Given prplhz was absent, Chez was trolling etc., I'd rather imagine they were far more worrying about the fact that a mayor was getting elected on a landslide on the platform of lynching a mafia.
If I were mafia during day 1, I can't really imagine that I'd be thinking of trying to frame a townie by electing them into office, especially as it wasn't clear where all the votes were lying/how they would end up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
