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(1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share
Not really satisfied with my answer to this, however, the question does invite fluff.
Reasoning on why someone is good seems to help mafia tbh.
cDgCorazon
should be good - more info needed
On January 03 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
2) How would the mafia try to get us to mislynch a townie?
I'll save this answer for after more people have discussed it.
perhaps we should discuss this? Mocsta puts it pretty much in my words. Lurking mafia is easy to do and likely to work.
Mocsta
very easy to call good so we should be on our toes. I've seen some reasoning along the lines of he's playing like the townie he played last game. Dangerous assumption as a good mafia would play the same way would they not?
If he's not bad I feel like he's in danger of being killed night as he's very valuable to the town leading the discussion mostly.
OmniEulogy
Perhaps a bit jumpy, however, we really don't have much to go on with one day worth of info.
jampidampi
Very suspicious of me still. Not sure why. Perhaps due to the leading nature of Mocsta's question?
zarepath
not sure on your read about sylencia as he did call me out due to knowing me. I feel the whole town is a bit eager to call people out on fluff day one when really that's kind of what day1 usually is - for me anyway.
Spaghetticus
Didn't even catch that QT 'read' until was pointed out. It's a bit ... of overanalysing tbh. Still innocent until proven guilty for me.
Sylencia
Seems like bored townie proding.
TeMiL
???
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On January 04 2013 14:24 StriX wrote:
(1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share
(2) You said zarepath is your lead suspect. With the information zarepath has presented since Session 2. What are your revised thoughts? If still a target, I suggest you demonstrate your conviction with a vote; otherwise, begin to identify alternative candidates.
1. I'm starting to yes.
2. Feel like we're going a bit easy on TeMiL and I'd like to vote to lynch him right now. I delayed my vote due to suspecting lurking was due to timezone issues, however, I feel like we've given him long enough to contribute. He is also the only one to not respond to Mocsta's first set of questions.
...
##Vote TeMil
@StriX
Town still needs more than you. Sylencia is a good friend to you, and gave a moving resume. Even I want to hire you.. but I and thus town, need more meaningful contribution.
Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated.
Why have you voted TeMiL? Please reference the following in your answering:
(A)
On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +(1) [Mocsta]You mention keeping it simple, Lynch the liars + lurkers. Please expand on this. Would you chose liars/lurkers over top scum read?
1. Doesn't seem logical to do that so no. As you can deal with a lying or lurking town with less punishment than .5?-1 death/night.
and
(B)
I also find it convenient my question to you..
(3)[Mocsta] Your post contribution currently is on par with TeMiL and zarepath. If we are you Lynch all lurkers, which of (TeMiL, zarepath, StriX) shall town vote to lynch? Please lead the scum hunt with your chosen candidate.
The only people you have referenced in your contributions are TeMiL and zarepath (names I fed you in questions).
Why would this be the case? Do you see any contradictions in tale?
I noted as well TeMiL didnt answer the questions.. you haven't answered all either...I still want to know..
On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:
(2) [Mocsta] thus, how do you propose to support town play?
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EBWOP.
StriX: Noted you shared you "whos-who"
The rest of the last post, still applies.
Please address.
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In all honesty, I think voting TeMiL right now is a pretty useless move. I think a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) towards TeMiL can be more helpful than just voting TeMiL and being done with the analysis. Voting someone that is lurking this early in the game is really just being lazy, and does not help out town at all.
StriX, I would prefer that you would take 2 or 3 of your scum reads and pursue them farther. This would be a lot more helpful than voting for a lurker right now. If you feel like no one has said anything scummy by the time the voting deadline comes around, then go ahead and vote for TeMiL. For now, you should note his lurkiness to the town and pursue other reads.
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Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated.
Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style.
I guess we have different definitions of top scum reads as I really don't feel supporting no lynch is one. Perhaps in a high level (it'd probably be a meta play there actually) game but not in newbie mafia.
I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself.
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@cDgCorazon
I guess that's fair. For interests sake at what point would you say enough is enough and vote TeMiL (assuming he still doesn't post).
I'm aware that since I lost my last game to a lurking mafia I maybe overcompensating to kill lurkers. Trying to find the balance right now.
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I think voting a lurker should wait until Day 2. It should only be used on Day 1 if you truly do not have any other reads.
I understand that you are overcompensating for your last game of Mafia. Trust me, TeMiL is not going to fly under the radar if he lurks. I'm all for hammering him for it on D2 if it doesn't change.
For now, I think we should look away from TeMiL, and turn our focus elsewhere.
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On January 04 2013 15:27 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated. Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style. I guess we have different definitions of top scum reads as I really don't feel supporting no lynch is one. Perhaps in a high level (it'd probably be a meta play there actually) game but not in newbie mafia. I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself.
StriX,I am having trouble digesting what you have written above.
I ask that you look back at the whole question I asked of you here.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=16#302
Do you think you have addressed my questions? I don't...
In fact, I don't know why you have used specific phrasing in your answers, that I think are unrelated to the question-at-hand. e.g. self-fulfilling prophecy....
As I don't think you have answered my question; so I request that
you re-write what you wanted to say in a more cohesive manner.
Lastly, Im not calling you out on this, Im giving a tip in general, when you start a sentence with "honestly" the implication is that the entire conversation prior may not have contained your "honest" thoughts...Same goes with (To be honest.. blah blah blah)...Im not calling you out, because that also usually associated with body language, and obviously I cant see you.
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On January 04 2013 08:38 OmniEulogy wrote:After reading the following something feels off, it might be a language barrier thing but + Show Spoiler +From jampidampi: Regarding the QT question: If he was scum, he would have gotten the QT link with his role PM. Would anyone ask something they already know of? Or was it a way to get his scumbuddy to come to the QT? It is all just speculation, but I hope everyone here would have the brains to check out the QT from their PM.
Leaning towards town Something in that bolded area seems off to me. @Jampi could you clarify when you say everybody should check the QT link they get in their PM?
The OP provided the role PMs for each role. In the scum role PMs there is a direct link to the scum QT. Anyone rational would at least check out the link and post there once to get commucating between his scumpartner going. After all, mafias greatests strength is their information and the possibility of communication.
On January 04 2013 13:47 Mocsta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +(1) I would like if you could answer the new questions I addressed to you: @Jampidampi You said you prefer a postcount to post quality ratio skewed in favour of post quality. Why does your post regarding these three people aid towns scumhunt? What makes this a "quality" post? The only other person you have identified in your contributions is StriX; the questions are vague at best however. - If StriX remains your primary target, I would like to see you direct more questions his way to develop your profile on him.
- If StriX has fallen down the pecking order, I would like to know what has changed your mind.
(2) What is your take on the Sylencia/zarepath exchange of words (and vote(s))?
It was a post of me sharing my weak town reads. I asked the coaches if I should share weak reads, but since they were slow to answear and I was impatient, I went ahead and posted it (they said I shouldn't share weak town reads). It may help others when considering who to scumhunt. I do agree that the post lacks some quality.
I will write my suspicions of/questions to StriX in a separate post to make it more clear.
Zarepath may just have a little bit of tunnel vision. It's good that he's bringing those points up, but I'm statisfied with the answears Sylencia gave.
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Thanks Jampi thats how I thought you meant it and its how I was reading it, I'm not sure why it was playing out differently in my head as I read it.
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On January 04 2013 15:09 StriX wrote:cDgCorazon should be good - more info needed Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
2) How would the mafia try to get us to mislynch a townie?
I'll save this answer for after more people have discussed it.
Can I have some clarification on this? What do you mean by good? (Do you think I'm town or do you think I'm good at the game?)
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After examing StriX filter, he feels scummy.
+ Show Spoiler +In his first post he is only agreeing with others and repeating what others already said about the summary plan. Second post is just policy talk without actually bringing anthing new to the table.A short post just answearing a question. On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +(1) You mention keeping it simple, Lynch the liars + lurkers. Please expand on this. Would you chose liars/lurkers over top scum read?
(2) Noone is asking you to support the summary idea; thus, how do you propose to support town play?
(3) Your post contribution currently is on par with TeMiL and zarepath. If we are you Lynch all lurkers, which of (TeMiL, zarepath, StriX) shall town vote to lynch? Please lead the scum hunt with your chosen candidate. 1. Doesn't seem logical to do that so no. As you can deal with a lying or lurking town with less punishment than .5?-1 death/night. A bare minimun response to the question. 2. No ideas yet honestly - still getting the hang of who is who.
Seems like coming up with a excuse not to contribute. 3. Zarepath at the moment - mainly due to his policy on no lynch. Town environment can be improved and giving a lynch which could potentially be a free scum kill away seems too steep a price to pay.
Accusing someone based on a nolynch policy is an easy thing to do. Next three posts are him answearing my questions about the game he played earlier. After that he takes back his suspicions of zarepath stating that Rationalizing no-lynch is nothing by itself. even though most would agree it's a scummy move On January 04 2013 14:24 StriX wrote:+ Show Spoiler +(1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share
(2) You said zarepath is your lead suspect. With the information zarepath has presented since Session 2. What are your revised thoughts? If still a target, I suggest you demonstrate your conviction with a vote; otherwise, begin to identify alternative candidates. 1. I'm starting to yes. Again, bare minimum response. 2. Feel like we're going a bit easy on TeMiL and I'd like to vote to lynch him right now. I delayed my vote due to suspecting lurking was due to timezone issues, however, I feel like we've given him long enough to contribute. He is also the only one to not respond to Mocsta's first set of questions.
As an idea Mocsta could you may
##Vote TeMil Targetting the easiest player to target: a lyrker with no contrinutions. After that he claims to have contributed with an argument that he later took back.Then he posts his reads/views on everyone without actually giving any reasonings.On January 04 2013 15:27 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated. Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style. I guess we have different definitions of top scum reads as I really don't feel supporting no lynch is one. Perhaps in a high level (it'd probably be a meta play there actually) game but not in newbie mafia. Defends letting go of zarepaths pressure with a different playstyle. I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself.
Acknowledges that so far all his actions have been because Mocsta requested him to act. In his last post he defends his vote on TeMiL with some previous game he played.
Overall, he has no contributions to speak of and some of his plays are scummy.
##Vote StriX
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On January 04 2013 13:56 Mocsta wrote:
In essence, I DO have firm thoughts on what happened.
My revised questions to others reflects my opinion on the matter (in a subtle manner).
If we have the courtesy of answering your questions straight, could you do us a favour and answer our questions straight as well? Otherwise we're just feeding you information while we get nothing back - or it's left up to us to interpret. Not what you want, especially when it can be twisted so easily.
On January 04 2013 14:36 zarepath wrote:
Additionally, how is asking someone to participate more scummy? That is decidedly pro-town behavior
Half the points you made on me were about me trying to get people to participate. It was followed each time with "Possibly scummy." What?
On January 04 2013 14:19 zarepath wrote:
I still have an #FoS on Sylencia; he's answered my case at each point, but it doesn't change the tone and vibe of all of his posts put together for the first 24 hours.
You gave 5-6 points as to why I was potentially scummy - one of them included the fact that I 'didn't believe' in my own read, so I didn't vote Spag. Yet you do exactly the same thing and just give an FoS on me rather than voting me outright. Your tendency to act against what you say about others really grinds me, and it's a fairly clear tell when you've done it multiple times today.
##Vote zarepath
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On January 04 2013 19:18 Sylencia wrote:Mocsta- If we have the courtesy of answering your questions straight, could you do us a favour and answer our questions straight as well? Otherwise we're just feeding you information while we get nothing back - or it's left up to us to interpret. Not what you want, especially when it can be twisted so easily. zarepath- You gave 5-6 points as to why I was potentially scummy - one of them included the fact that I 'didn't believe' in my own read, so I didn't vote Spag. Yet you do exactly the same thing and just give an FoS on me rather than voting me outright. Your tendency to act against what you say about others really grinds me, and it's a fairly clear tell when you've done it multiple times today. Because I would like you to owe me a favour... I am going to respond to your post now  As mentioned Mocsta Post I am heading out soon, my position hasnt changed from that post. Comments to me.
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Im disapointed you think the information is one-way. The information goes to all readers of the thread, this is an interesting perspective you have? (2) A lot of people in the thread are saying "I agree with Mocsta".. I think this implies I need to take a step back, and let people think for themselves. Do you not agree? Obviously not.. because the quote you put in your response, actually takes out the part I just said about taking a step back..... "See here for post" Once again.. interesting perspective Sylencia.... P.S. Feel free to twist my words the way you want It takes two to tango, and I am more than willing to accept your offer to dance 
Comments to zarepath
+ Show Spoiler +
This is heading towards OMGUS very quickly.
(1) In general to both, I am not a fan of ##FoS... what does it actually achieve? (OoOoO I am shaking in my boots because of a FoS)
(2) I need to re-read your filter Sylencia.. but my opinion of zarepath is that he is not a threat. When I read his filter, I am currently interpretting his motives as town aligned. [Note.. I am not establishing him as a town read... this would go against what I was advising prior]
(3) I am not going bother commenting on this situation in general... I think there are higher priority targets for Day 1 lynch;
If you want to continue with zarepath as your vote, go ahead, its your decision.
I ask that you re-evaluate his filter, do you see town motivations? If so, I suggest you start thinking of an alternative person to scum hunt.
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On January 04 2013 16:26 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 08:38 OmniEulogy wrote:After reading the following something feels off, it might be a language barrier thing but + Show Spoiler +From jampidampi: Regarding the QT question: If he was scum, he would have gotten the QT link with his role PM. Would anyone ask something they already know of? Or was it a way to get his scumbuddy to come to the QT? It is all just speculation, but I hope everyone here would have the brains to check out the QT from their PM.
Leaning towards town Something in that bolded area seems off to me. @Jampi could you clarify when you say everybody should check the QT link they get in their PM? The OP provided the role PMs for each role. In the scum role PMs there is a direct link to the scum QT. Anyone rational would at least check out the link and post there once to get commucating between his scumpartner going. After all, mafias greatests strength is their information and the possibility of communication. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 13:47 Mocsta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +(1) I would like if you could answer the new questions I addressed to you: @Jampidampi You said you prefer a postcount to post quality ratio skewed in favour of post quality. Why does your post regarding these three people aid towns scumhunt? What makes this a "quality" post? The only other person you have identified in your contributions is StriX; the questions are vague at best however. - If StriX remains your primary target, I would like to see you direct more questions his way to develop your profile on him.
- If StriX has fallen down the pecking order, I would like to know what has changed your mind.
(2) What is your take on the Sylencia/zarepath exchange of words (and vote(s))? It was a post of me sharing my weak town reads. I asked the coaches if I should share weak reads, but since they were slow to answear and I was impatient, I went ahead and posted it (they said I shouldn't share weak town reads). It may help others when considering who to scumhunt. I do agree that the post lacks some quality. I will write my suspicions of/questions to StriX in a separate post to make it more clear. Zarepath may just have a little bit of tunnel vision. It's good that he's bringing those points up, but I'm statisfied with the answears Sylencia gave.
Is the following question allowed?
Do not respond until I have an answer from mod.
Jampi. You claim to have talked to a coach that was not quick to respond. Tell me when you posted and when the response came.
I am going to McDonalds to take advantage of their air-con, it is the hottest day ever recorded where I live, I have glanced over the thread up until now but have not taken notes. When I return I will make some more committed action. If this play is allowed it could be game breaking. If you are town you have nothing to fear so long as the mod allows a response.
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On January 04 2013 19:55 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 19:18 Sylencia wrote:Mocsta- If we have the courtesy of answering your questions straight, could you do us a favour and answer our questions straight as well? Otherwise we're just feeding you information while we get nothing back - or it's left up to us to interpret. Not what you want, especially when it can be twisted so easily. zarepath- You gave 5-6 points as to why I was potentially scummy - one of them included the fact that I 'didn't believe' in my own read, so I didn't vote Spag. Yet you do exactly the same thing and just give an FoS on me rather than voting me outright. Your tendency to act against what you say about others really grinds me, and it's a fairly clear tell when you've done it multiple times today. Because I would like you to owe me a favour... I am going to respond to your post now As mentioned Mocsta Post I am heading out soon, my position hasnt changed from that post. Comments to me. + Show Spoiler +(1) Im disapointed you think the information is one-way. The information goes to all readers of the thread, this is an interesting perspective you have? (2) A lot of people in the thread are saying "I agree with Mocsta".. I think this implies I need to take a step back, and let people think for themselves. Do you not agree? Obviously not.. because the quote you put in your response, actually takes out the part I just said about taking a step back..... "See here for post" Once again.. interesting perspective Sylencia.... P.S. Feel free to twist my words the way you want It takes two to tango, and I am more than willing to accept your offer to dance Comments to zarepath + Show Spoiler +
This is heading towards OMGUS very quickly.
(1) In general to both, I am not a fan of ##FoS... what does it actually achieve? (OoOoO I am shaking in my boots because of a FoS)
(2) I need to re-read your filter Sylencia.. but my opinion of zarepath is that he is not a threat. When I read his filter, I am currently interpretting his motives as town aligned. [Note.. I am not establishing him as a town read... this would go against what I was advising prior]
(3) I am not going bother commenting on this situation in general... I think there are higher priority targets for Day 1 lynch;
If you want to continue with zarepath as your vote, go ahead, its your decision.
I ask that you re-evaluate his filter, do you see town motivations? If so, I suggest you start thinking of an alternative person to scum hunt.
Regarding your posts, it's just the way you answered that question specifically though, where you decided to say you already had - but subtly, that I didn't like. Maybe I read the wrong post, looking for what you meant (the one with all the questions) but I didn't seem to quite understand your view on that issue.
In regards to taking a step back and letting others get stuff in, of course, go ahead, it was just the issue of not knowing where you stood there that agitated me.
For the issue with zarepath, I'll wait and see where it leads from here, but at the moment I'm sticking on my vote.
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On January 04 2013 19:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
Is the following question allowed?
Do not respond until I have an answer from mod.
Jampi. You claim to have talked to a coach that was not quick to respond. Tell me when you posted and when the response came.
I am going to McDonalds to take advantage of their air-con, it is the hottest day ever recorded where I live, I have glanced over the thread up until now but have not taken notes. When I return I will make some more committed action. If this play is allowed it could be game breaking. If you are town you have nothing to fear so long as the mod allows a response.
IIRC from NMM XXXII, we were told not to talk about talking to coaches.
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Probably better you not talk about that.
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okay let's take this one by one
@Mocsta
It was my idea of a 'play'. Accepting the advantage if you wish a starcraft analogy. (The better player wins in the long term so delaying the game is of no harm as long as you can hold the advantage) It obviously defeats the purpose if I reveal the play but at this point transparency and proving my innocence seem to be the priority.
Self-fulfilling prophecy was me explaining a potential weakness in pressuring someone versus observing them.
TeMiL is currently the undisputedly biggest lurker.
I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself.
in response to Why are you only analysing the names fed to you?
Basically I was saying sometimes you forget who suggested the idea to you to check someone out as you are the one studying all their posts etc., Possible to even think you came up with it all by yourself.
Next statement is a bit generic I guess but it is true. Sharpening your scope limits your vision.
Last was a poke at the leading nature of your questions and also a realisation that I'm not immune to being led. Seems like a very good explanation for the situation I'm in with jampidampi.
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oops forgot this bit
On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:
(2) [Mocsta] thus, how do you propose to support town play?
At this point transparent observations are my strength. Aggression for me is fun and all but very often seems to lead to situations we have with Sylencia v Zarepath. Reactionary play versus aggressive pressure seems to be a bit of an issue here. I feel like most of you guys are more a fan of the latter. I have no objections being lynched for playstyle reasons but diversification of strategy would definitely give the mafia a harder time (good cop bad cop).
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EPT
