EPTYet Another Normal Mini Mafia
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If he's town people will be so paranoid about him that he's better off dead. If he's mafia he's better of dead. | ||
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I am confused  | ||
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On December 18 2012 01:17 Promethelax wrote: fucking fuck. Full already? /in or /replacement. I love normal minis. you got the last spot according to my math. \o/ to Prom getting the last spot \o/ | ||
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On December 18 2012 01:45 Promethelax wrote: Oh, so me yelling at Kier on irc under various names to let me play wasn't necessary? Woops. highly depends on wether or not I can calculate correctly. I wouldn't bet too much on my maths considering that I wasn't able to read the setup earlier. | ||
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On December 18 2012 05:26 yamato77 wrote: Any time, any day. I'll be active at some point. Though a warning in advance, I am self-imposing a strict posting limit of ten posts per cycle to remedy my spamming issue. Don't lynch me for this. Lynch me for being mafia. yeah same here but people should already know about that if they watched my last game :p I don't have a number I set for myself but I'll post way less. | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:48 Keirathi wrote: Yes. I toyed with the idea of making them not self-aware for this game, but I think I'll keep them self-aware for this game. Also, going to start tomorrow. I ended up being pretty busy this afternoon. That's fine but isn't the standard the other way around? Usually millers aren't self aware and them being self aware is a change :p I mean it could get a little hairy with a combination of miller and mason in a game I suspect. | ||
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On December 18 2012 22:25 marvellosity wrote: you'd have to be very careful with this, remember that Miller actually nominally counts as a "blue" - i.e. a pro-town force, in C9++. Unselfaware millers are a boon for mafia, so the balance gets screwed up somewhat exactly what I meant with what I said. An unaware miller is something considered half a red PR, as in it's hurting town. A weak one but it is hurting town. A self-aware miller is something that is slightly helping town. Not a real blue but it's on the plus side and it has an amazing synergy with the kind of masons that are in this game. Edit: Didn't consider what bugs said. If it's an innocent child nerfed into a miller that's obviously decent. I just brought this up because it used to be not self-aware millers in pretty much every game, someone did a game with self aware millers and suddenly everyone uses them or assumes they are in play like matt (and the majority of everyone else) did in palmars storm game if I remember correctly (It was storm where Matt screwed up his miller claim, right? checking right now :p... no it wasn't storm, no idea what the game was) Edit2: got it, it was LVII | ||
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I won't believe any claim Vivax does in the future if he happens to claim something at some point and I'd say we stick with it that way. Yeah millers should claim but claiming VT (read: as in the ROLE, not the alignment) is retarded. Looks awfully set-up. Not alignment indicating at all because he's either a mafia or a townie trying to achieve something like doding or catching a bullet through confusion. Just saying, see you tomorrow. | ||
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On December 19 2012 22:57 Eywa- wrote: Hey guys, I just got into work... God what a nice day it is today, how are you all feeling? I'm fine. But bugs is ignoring me Guess he's asleep right now. Do you have any thoughts about anything yet? | ||
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On December 19 2012 23:24 Eywa- wrote: Well, I was pretty drunk last night as I was out late at the Tavern... As I wander home, I stumbled and fell... A strange figure walked out from the shadows, though I could not make out his face, I dare not show myself as he seemed rather keen on making sure no one was about. I think he might be planning something... I could only guess at this point, but the figure kind of seemed similar to that of debears, I can't say for sure. My head is spinning a little bit now that I think of it, it was a little too much action for me last night. However, I did see sciberbia and iamperfection at the Tavern as well, so I doubt they have anything to do with it. I don't ask about your thoughts to know the "results". I asked about your thoughts to get the reasoning. I get that it's still early in the game but giving names, coloring their names and making a cute story to back it up isn't exactly helpful. Mafias don't have problems giving you reads. Mafias have problems explaining the reads they're giving. So obviously I want you to, to see how you're doing. | ||
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On December 19 2012 23:32 Palmar wrote: @sciberbia To add to your case, I had already noticed this post as you did: What sticks out to me here is the first part. The second part is obviously correct, but the first part is interesting, why is it included in this post? It's not necessary to drive the point across, it doesn't help debears press the issue, all there is to it is an attempt to convince that since this is what he does, we need not worry about him being mafia. I need to read more, but I think maybe we have a good option here for a lynch. yeah agree. Imo those 3 ones in conjunction are equally interessting, if not more so: On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote: I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 On December 19 2012 09:34 debears wrote: Town. Mario mini dawg He's basicly telling us to lynch the guy because he's doing something stupid with the reasoning that he once did the very same thing AS TOWN. Given his history he at least should be the guy telling people something the lines of "okay, this guy is retarded but sometimes townies are retarded. I did the same mistake in a recent game" given how people apparently love to defend other people... well or at least not bring it up the way he did. Instead he's insta-voting him with a flawed logic when he should be well aware of all that. | ||
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On December 19 2012 23:50 iamperfection wrote: What do you think of debars votes on stutters? Im leaning town on debars because 1. A scum debars would know better than to come after me at all after mario mini 2.He was absolutely right on stutters just recapping the thread and not stating anything at all. His response was to apologize basically which i hate. also too toad and palmar who i have caught with my ninja f5 i think your totally misrepresenting what debars is saying considering his vote is on stutters. He is obviously trying to lynch him dawgs. so im thinking about a stutters lynch right now I get what you're saying though if you think I am misrepresenting what he said I want you to interpret what he said here: The wording is either incredibly sincere which would make him an incredibly cynical (not cynical... I don't remember the correct word right now ) considering that he did the very same thing or it makes him someone faking emotions for whatever reason. | ||
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On December 19 2012 23:59 iamperfection wrote: what you think of this eywa guy toad? stopped reading his post after my most recent answer I wrote towards him. So nothing really except for annoying. I'll just completly ignore him and catch up on his filter whenever I'm feeling like it I guess. | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:11 wherebugsgo wrote: So Toad where is your vote? Might be on you sometime later. On December 19 2012 16:11 wherebugsgo wrote: Toad is scum, let's kill him, toad is scum, let's kill him, lalala la la laaaaaa ##vote Toadesstern into On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote: At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing. I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1. That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. really doesn't work bugs. The only reason I didn't say it more clearly is because after all there might be someone stupid enough to go all batshit about your first vote. Noone did. You're still going with it? Why are you explaining what you're doing when your "plan" revolves around being a trap? Again, why are you still going with it? | ||
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##vote wherebugsgo I really don't see mafia NOT telling someone who's not a vet (assuming team mafia is not vet only :p) to vote bugs for his vote. Neither do I think that not a single mafia thought voting bugs might be a good way to place a vote after his vote. There, now you've got your reaction bugs. | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:33 sciberbia wrote: @Toad You are misunderstanding what debears said. In Mario Mini, s&b was the guy that claimed VT, and debears was the guy that called him out on it (as town). So in the quote that Palmar drew attention to, debears was saying that he, debears, has "fallen into the Kenpachi trap" before as town. Debears never claimed VT on D1. [...] Oh. Thanks that makes some sense I guess. | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Toad's dumbness strikes again! What a bullshit reason to vote someone. to get this straight, you agree with my analysis on your "trap" and the nature of your trap being retarded as you explained what you're doing while doing it which generally speaking is a bad thing when trying to get true reactions. You however think that it makes you blatantly town and everyone should agree on you being town because of that and the fact that you bursted like a baloon, desperatly trying to explain what you're up to when being poked at ever so slightly? You know, instead of just going along with your trap/reaction-fishing to get what you (apparently) intended to get (hint: it's reactions). | ||
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On December 20 2012 01:08 debears wrote: Iamp I find it odd that toad tried to misrepresent what I said in terms of mario mini and the kenpachi rule. Its obvious he assumed that I once did it, yet he never even checked the game that I mentioned. Now, whether he's dumb eniugh as scum to do that is the question I don't read old games. Ever. I didn't try to misrepresent what you said, I misunderstood what you said because of your bitter poor wording and took it for what it was. Go ahead and read what you posted: On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote: I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 Do you really think it was obvious that you were referring to "falling into a Kenpachi trap" and not referring to "doing the same thing" when sayine I've done the same thing before ? Especially considering the 2nd phrase going on about it, makes it look like you're still talking about the same topic. | ||
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On December 20 2012 01:36 wherebugsgo wrote: nope, you're just dumb. I haven't "desperately" tried to explain anything. Also to the couple people who were crying about "dumb doesn't equal scum!" you're right, it just means Toad is dumb. I never said that's why I think he's scum. Nice try, though. If it's not desperate: On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote: At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing. I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1. That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. why did you post it to begin with? I'm seeing a WBG getting in the thread, planting a rnd vote to get reactions while explaining that he's into laying traps and getting reactions. Those 2 things don't go along that nicely so I'd say you posted it because you thought you should for whatever reason. Why did you post it if it wasn't desperation? | ||
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On December 20 2012 02:10 wherebugsgo wrote: the fuck? Why would I need to be desperate in order to tell someone why I'm not going to answer his questions? because saying that totally cripples / backfires on your general idea how to play this game d1? If you intended to post that there was no reasoning for reaction fishing earlier on, which is fine because you might have concluded that it failed and just ignored it but you kept going on about it over here: On December 20 2012 00:11 wherebugsgo wrote: So Toad where is your vote? which makes no sense. You're either sabbotaging your own play or you're posting useless stuff that looks like you're doing something. I don't see you do either of those 2 as town. | ||
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On December 20 2012 02:20 wherebugsgo wrote: none of what you're saying makes a shred of sense. So, I'm going to ignore you, seeing as I think morbidius is far more likely scum than you. Okay nice and slow:
You do realize that that makes no sense and backfiring, right? You do realize that it makes me wonder why you reaction-fished in the first place if you're not even careing about the results because you're ruining them by explaining what you're up to so eagerly. What part of the logic / question isn't making sense. | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:07 wherebugsgo wrote: herp derp it wasn't a random vote. That in itself kills your whole theory. 2 things: 1) If it wasn't random you truely believe that you caught a mafia d1 after he did a single post? Especially considering it's me and you usually keep on harping about how unreadable I am early on in games and how people should look at my voting patterns instead of what I write to figure me out? If that's the case and you strongly believe I'm mafia because of that first post, you probably should have left your vote on me, shouldn't you ? 2) Even if it wasn't random and let's say you truely got a mafiaread on me around that time for whatever reason, it still was reaction fishing the way you did it. The important part wasn't the fact that it was (or wasn't) a random-vote but a post that was meant to reaction-fish, like I mentioned at least 10 times now. You did that post and I assume you left out reasoning/explanation intentionally to see what people think about it/me and how they respond. The very trollish behavior also makes it look like you just wanted people to comment on it desperately, or make it look that way. So no, even if it wasn't a random vote my theory isn't killed at all because it's about the reaction fishing that you pretend to be doing while you don't care at all about it because you're actively sabotaging any results you could get out of your posts by the other posts you did so far. But fine. I'll ignore you for a while. Won't help anyone here if I keep on posting about you and noone else, there's more mafia to catch out there and clearly you're very passionate about it. The latter part isn't alignment indicating at all and therefore isn't changing my read on you one bit but you might have just screwed up big time, who knows. You're very much not perfect after all. | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:15 debears wrote: Ah wtf its in the quotes So you don't use meta? If so do you have multiple other games where you say this? I do use meta, pretty much actually, I just don't read old games I weren't part of because I think you've got the be in the situation first hand to understand it and how it came to it. Additionally if I start reading old games for someone I have to do it for everyone. I don't really feel like reading 30 games.... Yeah got a bunch of games stateing that, go ahead and search them^^ | ||
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On December 20 2012 08:38 debears wrote: Ok. This is just fucking unreasonable 1) You were pretty happy to jump on me early when you didn't read my game 2) You say you use meta "pretty much" 3) You didn't bother to quickly check the game I listed in the thread to check my reaction (in other words USING META) 4) When I request a couple of quotes from your previous games you say that I can go search them. That is bullshit. Total bullshit. I ask you for something fucking specific that you should easily be able to point out. This isn't something that's easy to ctrl f through filters. What's your reasoning for being uncompliant when you should have a pretty good idea where to find something like that from your previous games I'm looking, and if I don't find anything, I'm screaming your name from the mountains until you are lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote Toad what about it is unreasonable. I just said I don't go through old games at all. And you asked me to. I just said I don't do it... If anything searching this kind of thing would be unreasonable lol. About what you said: 1) I didn't jump on you. I said that you said A is something scummy while admitting that you did A yourself as town before. That's something really scummy and you did not make it clear at all that you were talking about something else 2) Yes I do, I use meta from games I played in only. 3) As mentioned, I don't do that. 4) As mentioned, I don't do that and I don't know in which of my 30 or something like that games I said something like that or on what page. As you said it's really not easy to find something like that :p Here's my approach on meta as an easy to understand flowchart: Was I in the game myself? ->Yes? -> Use meta -> No? ----> Were multiple people (3+) in this game in the old game as well? --------> Yes and noone disagrees -> take what the guy says to have happened for granted. --------> Yes and people disagree (about it happening) -> ignore the meta read --------> No -> ignore the meta read. Pretty straight forward. | ||
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On December 20 2012 09:13 debears wrote: Ok found the quote in chrono. Why in the fuck did you not just tell me you said it in chrono??? If you are town and you believe I am town, you are wasting my fucking time for no reason If you are town and you believe I am scum, you want to waste my time on a wild goose chase If you are scum, you are purposely wasting my time Playing dota right now (for the last 4 hours...) | ||
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And again, I'm playing dota. I've got 10-20 secs inbetween to post. Not thinking at all :p | ||
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On December 20 2012 11:45 debears wrote: Here let me try it this way toad + Show Spoiler + 1) You never voted me. you're having an extremely tough time of keeping your story straight 2) You never mentioned that it was poor wording choice by you. You are making up this excuse in hindsight. If you thought it was a screw up in wording to begin with, why didn't you ask? You clearly attempted to establish that my actions were not coming from a townie mindset as shown by the following quotes + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 23:42 Toadesstern wrote: yeah agree. Imo those 3 ones in conjunction are equally interessting, if not more so: He's basicly telling us to lynch the guy because he's doing something stupid with the reasoning that he once did the very same thing AS TOWN. Given his history he at least should be the guy telling people something the lines of "okay, this guy is retarded but sometimes townies are retarded. I did the same mistake in a recent game" given how people apparently love to defend other people... well or at least not bring it up the way he did. Instead he's insta-voting him with a flawed logic when he should be well aware of all that. On December 19 2012 23:57 Toadesstern wrote: I get what you're saying though if you think I am misrepresenting what he said I want you to interpret what he said here: The wording is either incredibly sincere which would make him an incredibly cynical (not cynical... I don't remember the correct word right now ) considering that he did the very same thing or it makes him someone faking emotions for whatever reason.3) That's odd, because your reasoning up to your vote had to do only with him not publicizing his reads, as shown by the quotes + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 00:13 Toadesstern wrote: Hey Palmar. Do you think WBG would be so open about explaining what he's doing if he's really trying to do what he wants us to think he's doing? On December 20 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote: Might be on you sometime later. into really doesn't work bugs. The only reason I didn't say it more clearly is because after all there might be someone stupid enough to go all batshit about your first vote. Noone did. You're still going with it? Why are you explaining what you're doing when your "plan" revolves around being a trap? Again, why are you still going with it? On December 20 2012 00:28 Toadesstern wrote: Actually ##vote wherebugsgo I really don't see mafia NOT telling someone who's not a vet (assuming team mafia is not vet only :p) to vote bugs for his vote. Neither do I think that not a single mafia thought voting bugs might be a good way to place a vote after his vote. There, now you've got your reaction bugs. you're other reasoning came after. I will tackle that in a later post 4) That's incredibly stupid reasoning if you were town 5) I can't take your word for this one either way. You could be town being honest. You could be scum lying. My problem with this is I asked what other games you did it in. You failed to respond properly, and instead wasted my time 6) Making a post-vote reasoning post on you. A big problem of yours is saying that that was your reasoning for voting him, where your comments before that said otherwise. I really don't like your responses in 1-4. Your 5 and 6 are excuses of playstyle which I will have to examine further. I still think your scum Next part coming in a bit About your 1) Exactly what I said. I never voted you. Yet you make it look like I said otherwise by saying "I'm having a tought time keeping my story straight". Looky-Looky: That's why my vote on WBG is so "fast" in comparison to the never-to-be vote on you. 2) It was YOU poor wording that caused this. You still haven't understood what I wrote. Go back and read it. If what I thought you said would be true it would have been a mafia mindset. That's why I said it is. Once I realized that you just can't write properly I backed off and realized it was just a mistake, therefore there was no longer a mafia mindset because the meaning of your sentence changed drastically. 3) I'll just ignore this. That's how I play. If you check any of my games you'll see that I play that way every single time as it's more productive and usually people are able to see the grand scheme of things instead of tunneling like a mad man. There's obviously always that one crazy guy in every game. 4) No it's not. I hardly ever vote people I never played with on d1 and I prefere voting people I played with at least 3 games or something like that because I can judge them way better than a random newbie. Than again, might be weird to you because you haven't played as many games yet.... If I say "I'm only voting people I played at least 3 games with on d1" that means that I'm still left with AT LEAST half of the entire sign-ups and surely there should be mafia in there as well, mafia that are way easier to figure out for me. 5) So? You wanted to waste my time by asking me that stupid question when I made it very clear that I'm not willing to do that kind of thing, ever. Seems fair to me. 6) Guess you'll have to deal with that because as mentioned, that's how I and actually at least 70% of people (especially vets) on TL play. But go ahead, it's probably a mafia-treat to play like that if the majority of people does it like that (for a reason). Seriously, if you hadn't taken your time to check on Chrono I'd be all over for OMGUS'ing and Tunneling me like a mad man. On Lynching matters: Right now I've got 2 basic scenarios in my head. WBG is still the guy I'd like to lynch the most as my read on him is the strongest. Zelblade is someone I could get behind based on meta. He's a guy who actively lurks on purpose as mafia as he thinks people ignore him for whatever reason and it usually is that way. He at least told me that that's his basic plan as mafia once in irc, he was mafia when he told me so and he did it that game, so yeah looks like he hasn't changed his old habbits of playing mafia to me. I'd say it's a weak meta read though as stuff like that always could just end up being real-life troubles of his and therefore got my preference on a WBG lynch. Iamperfection looks promising if WBG is not mafia / is most likely town if WBG is mafia... which is the reason I said I've got 2 basic scenarios in my head. There's more to that but explaining that would be troublesome, complicated and probably derailing the thread so I'll leave it with that as he doesn't seem to be an option right now. so yeah. I could get behind a Zelblade or WBG lynch today I guess. I know that wbg is proposing a Zelblade lynch and it's giving me troubles as well but I'll ignore it for now. It's most likely that one of my reads is wrong anyways, I'm not Jesus. | ||
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Really don't know what to make of you two guys yet. That being said I don't see a reason why I should lynch into him when I'm not sure about him at all. He's a vet and if he's town he'll die himself just fine soon enough, which solves the problem as well. | ||
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He continues to surprise me most times I sign up for games he's playing as well because I think I figured him out, he's being useless as town, I want to lynch him for that because he's usually not and suddenly he flips town. I'd get behind a Wiggles lynch if I have to, to avoid a no-lynch but other than that I'd say WBG / Zelblade are better options right now. I'll reread wiggles big post you quoted and your own post once I'm at my parents place to see your reasoning for wanting to lynch him. Got to admit I only checked it out really quick but haven't tried to read it carefully until now because I'm busy packing stuff :p For now I'm gone. See you in something like 2 hours, got to go now. | ||
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Last game I played with him was PTP3 if I remember correctly and if you look at his filter it's just not that much either considering for how long he survived: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357&user=99050&user=99050 Yes the filter has posts that look good and they are actually good but it's just not that much. I can't make out a significant difference and actually there's some posts that strike me as "this could be town-Wiggles" he had in that game that look somewhat like what he's doing this game. Example (I remember this one because it was directed at me&bc): + Show Spoiler [click me] + On August 20 2012 11:33 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Why do you feel the need to tell people to stop role speculating when no one's been doing it for the last several pages, and it's already been pointed out and addressed? Posts like that look a lot like what he's doing this game to be honest. Again, that's why I'm uncertain about him. I definitely can't shake of the feeling that he's as well posting the way he did in.... whatever-the-name-was when I was modconfirmed phone-booth-mason and he got mayor as mafia, which is the reason I brought it up in my most recent post, because it really does look like this political correct Wiggles to please the masses from time to times. So those 2 things are obviously confronting each other, thus my trouble making a read on him right now. But as mentioned earlier. I'm now at my parents place and will read your thoughts about him. | ||
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On December 21 2012 00:46 iamperfection wrote: lol you said you somewhat support it. No reason to be mad. we can figure out stuff now. Do you think a mafia would go through the trouble and read up Chrono Trigger to find the quote about me he delivered? I have a hard time thinking that way. If he wants to shit up the thread he can just do so without checking it and hardline his usual "but Toad totally misinterpreted what I said! He has to be evil mafia who misunderstood me on purpose to make me look bad!" | ||
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On December 21 2012 00:58 iamperfection wrote: toad it just doesn't look like he is trying to catch scum to me I get that and I agree but as I said, if it weren't for the quote he delivered I'd be all over him. I'm really having a hard time imagining someone would put that much effort into a game as mafia. Hell let's be honest, most people playing mafia aren't even reading the thread, amirite Palmar? | ||
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That's the main reason I wasn't sure what to make of palmar earlier on. That being said I agree that Wiggles big post about Eywa is pretty damn stupid. Guess there's no way around but reading that guy's filter after all... And it's exactly what I said about it 3 hours ago: I really don't like him writing so political correct. That post is the epicenter of politcal correctness. I wouldn't say Wiggles is misrepresenting things on purpose because as mentioned I agree with some things although I wouldn't have put it that drastically. I'm going to think a bit about this, going to read Eywa's filter and check out Wiggles filter again. | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:19 yamato77 wrote: I do not like that post from debears on bit. Looks like straight up OMGUS. yeah pretty much... I'd say the fact that he tunneled me and OMGUS'ed me as well doesn't look good either. Hell if you believe in my read on WBG you might toss in a Chainsaw-defence as well :p It looks everything but reasonable. There's just no way that he thought that way beforehand, that's straight up OMGUS that resulted because of iamp's post and nothing else. | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:24 debears wrote: Show me how 1) me tunneling someone is solely aligned with my scum games 2) how my drop in activity on day is solely aligned to my scum games. Its not at all. In fact its the oppsosite You can't provide those, and you don't want to. Because you are scum and you are wrong The big problem with you is that you are incredibly erratic, you don't scumhunt and instead jump after everyone and their dog given that someone said something you disagree with. That's not scumhunting. That's thinking you're the best at this game, everything you say is correct and everyone disagreeing with you must be retarded AND mafia because they wouldn't disagree if they were town, because what you said is correct. You do see the problem in that kind of "scumhunting", right? | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:29 debears wrote: What are you refering to with "thought that way before hand"? I think your agreesion on Iamp is solely based on what just happened and I don't think you had your eyes on him before that. | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:32 debears wrote: Seriousky what is your read on me? One moment you say you don't like my post (infering I'm scum) Then you go and lecture me on mafia. Am I town or scum? I think you're useless and I'd like you shot if we have a vig. I don't think it's unlikely that you're mafia but I'm having my issues with you that make it unlikely to put you down as a mafiaread although all the things I've seen from you should be pointing towards a mafia read. Therefore I wouldn't want to see you lynched but rather shot, even if you're town if you keep on playing like that. So a coinflip. I'd like to say you're mafia because in the grand scheme you do look scummy but I have those 2 things in my head that just blatantly read town to me and make me wonder. For me, you're basicly in the Drazerk-category right now. | ||
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This game will use a simple plurality lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. In the event of a tie, the person to reach that number of votes first will be lynched. So we don't need to have 50%+ but yeah getting a bunch of votes on the same guy is still what we want to do to make it hard to manipulate things. That being said I'm most likely going to vote Wiggles today and trust in Palmar. Yes it's a weird statement and I get that most people will probably consider it a scummy statement but I think that's what is best for today. I said that I'm not sure about Palmar earlier but he looks better than Wiggles and WBG and the only VET other than those 3 left in this game is me :p And well my town game isn't known for being good but mostly for being erratic resultwise. I either stomp mafias and get 70-90% mafia reads correct by the end of d1/d2 or d3 the latest like I did in L, WoF, that abomination of a game that had a shitton of players in it where I killed half of the mafias that ended up dead myself or the last time I played with WBG when he was mafia... don't remember the name OR I'm completly retarded, hurting town like I'm mafias MVP by shooting 3 townies as the Joker in BC's game, as the mason in whatever the name of that was and so on. There's really nothing inbetween. I'm either going to be a hero, a shining beacon of towns mafiahunting abilities or a total disaster. I'd rather see which one it is before I lead a lynch on d1 this time around :p sooooo, long story short: ##unvote ##vote Wiggles In Palmar we trust! | ||
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He's useless. He's insulting for the sake of being insulting (well yeah I agree that's not indicating a mafia alignment nor a town alignment at all when talking about bugs). I still think he faked reaction-fishing as he is utterly uninterested in any results he could have gotten out of it by sabotaging it himself, which obviously makes me think he just wants to look like someone doing "stuff". The posts that look like he's doing something are generally really poorly done, usually targeting some random new guy telling them they are bad and what they did isn't good if the guy in question should be town. Guess what, that's what both newbie townies and newbie mafias do. Posts like + Show Spoiler [click me] + On December 20 2012 03:11 wherebugsgo wrote: actually fuck morbidius, that last post by zelblade was much worse. ##unvote ##vote Zelblade bolded all the kinds of things bad scum (like zelblade) like saying. I specifically recall that zelblade is like this as scum. In addition, note the complete lack of a vote, and, in general, spine. Does anyone here think that's a decent post WBG did? Sure he has a point but it's not enough for what I'm expecting from someone like WBG at all. All he's doing is pointing out bad play and WBG is able to do that as both mafia and town because guess what, there's bad play in pretty much every townie. It is however an incredibly easy way to look like you're doing something while you're not. TL;DR: So yeah. I'd really like to know what makes Palmar think WBG is town right now. | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Those are two contradictory statements. let's assume you flip town. Do we wrath-lynch Palmar or WBG? | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Cool. What are your thoughts on Vivax? Do you agree with what I wrote about him? Do you think he's scum? he's someone I never played with before so I'm ignoring him d1 for lynches and will take a closer look at him around d2 or d3 to have a proper sample-size. | ||
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Your answer was this one: On December 21 2012 04:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: You kill Palmar if he keeps playing how he's playing and doesn't start to provide original scum reads that contain actual reasoning. I don't see a reason to kill WBG right now. If his play take a nose-dive, sure, but barring that, between the two, you kill Palmar unless he shapes up. You don't see a reason to lynch WBG. You want to lynch Palmar if he keeps on playing the way he does, which means you think he's scummy but you're at least unsure about it. I don't think you ever mentioned me so far. Do you think the four of us are all town? I know this is C9++ and while hosts usually balance out the vets / new guys somewhat this most likely is not the case for this game because it's so heavily based on randomization, but do you really think all 4 of us being town is a likely scenario according to your reads? Not asking about set-up speculation or the "well there's got to be a mafia within the VETS, right?" argument I love to use myself at all. It just strikes me as odd that you're not really that much into pushing any of us. | ||
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On December 21 2012 05:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I have no idea how the hosts would balance. I don't know the relative skill levels of half the people in the game, and whether they've been playing for four months, or if this is their first game. I don't know how the hosts would balance the game with regards to myself considering I haven't played actively for about 5 months, and have barely looked at the forum for the last 4 months. So, balance considerations based on veterancy don't come to my mind, since I don't know who's considered a vet or not anymore. As for all four of us being town, no I don't think so. I don't think WBG is scum, I'm leaning scum on Palmar, and you I'm neutral on. So, it's not like I think that you and WBG are the towniest townies to ever town and that I'm neutral on Palmar. Palmar's someone I've been watching, and he's getting worse and worse. The fun part is that I call him out on not pushing any lynches strongly, and it's only after that point that he starts pushing a lynch strongly, and it comes on so strongly it's almost like an OMGUS. Also, him pushing my lynch isn't based around discussion of a case, it's based around him trying to bully people into voting me. Look at how he's getting people to vote for me. He's not appealing to any sort of reasoning or case, he's just spamming, "Vote for Wiggles!", and then he leaves with a threat that you'd better not unvote me. That's not townie behaviour, it's scum play. He's not relying on a case against me, he's making an attack and bullying everyone into going along with him. Also notice how I'm one of the few people not sheeping along with him and one of the only people who actually thinks that Palmar needs to be analyzed, and that after stating that, I become his #1 target and a priority to kill. He's trying to kill his dissenters right now. Dictator Palmar for life. exactly. That's how town Palmar plays. Ever seen the Annul-Disaster game? He even did a hitler video about everyone being an idiot for the last second changing of vote off Annul onto someone else. I mean yeah it's troublesome because that trollish behavior is hard to analyze but he's putting more effort into the game than he usually does as mafia imo. It's hard to tell though, he changed his town style after L to a more trollish one to make up for the big difference in his town and mafia metas because he was (imo) pissed about the fact that he can't play "not-palmar" as town and wanted to troll from time to time as well, which resulted in him being lynched twice in a row. In L on d1 and in whatever his next game was quite early as well. Pretty sure he stuck with that style for the sake of his mafia meta. | ||
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On December 21 2012 05:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, so what's your point? I think he's scummy, that's my justification. If he continues playing this style, then we need to kill him. Do you disagree? Yeah he's troublesome because he's hard to read but all that is stuff he does as town as well so I don't think we should lynch him. You seem to agree on that point because you said you want to lynch him if he continues to play that way. Point is that we're lacking alternatives if you don't want to lynch Palmar, WBG, myself or anyone else that was a topic earlier. Switching to a random lurker for being a lurker sounds like a bad plan to me. | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:17 Keirathi wrote: Vote Count Mr. Wiggles (4): Palmar, yamato77, Toadesstern, sciberbia zelblade (2): wherebugsgo, Mr. Wiggles Palmar (1): Eywa- debears (1): iamperfection iamperfection (1): debears Morbidius (1): Toadesstern (0): Eywa- (0): Vivax (0): Stutters695 (0): wherebugsgo (0): Currently wherebugsgo is set to be lynched. Deadline is in about 2 hours 40 mins. I assume you mean "Currently Wiggles is set to be lynched", correct? It's supposed to be a normal game after all. | ||
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Remember when I said I was playing dota yesterday? That was around 9pm my time until 3am my time. Those games included Wiggles, Hassy and Greymist, so yeah, he did play a bunch of dota and isn't talking shit out his ass. We obviously don't talk about mafia at all but it's one of the reasons I'm a bit uncertain about Wiggles and one of the reasons I'm not giving that much about the "Wiggles usually does more as town". | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:27 yamato77 wrote: Are you voting wiggles or not because you waffling about this is not exactly inspiring. I am. I'm having my doubts but I don't see an alternative. Zelblade because of my most recent post is out of the question imo. WBG doesn't seem to get support from anyone else although I'd love to seem him dead. And well Wiggles is the only other realistic option imo. | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:32 debears wrote: Lets not lynch wiggles his activity and fighting against sheeps makes me think more lilely town ##unvote ##vote zelblade Unless anyone wants to join me with iamp right, because activity when dealing with being lynched yourself and fighting against sheeps is something a mafia would never do. Why do I think you're town again? | ||
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If we have a vig that vig shoots debears 100%. Anything else and I'll slap people postgame. | ||
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Let's just screw this and hope we're correct :3 | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:32 debears wrote: Lets not lynch wiggles his activity and fighting against sheeps makes me think more lilely town ##unvote ##vote zelblade Unless anyone wants to join me with iamp I don't really need you to do cases. | ||
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On December 21 2012 08:05 debears wrote: Cuz your scum of course. Scum can't have townies like me going around ams makng cases no because I don't want anyone who posts something like that to make cases, ever. | ||
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because he tried to get Wiggles lynched instead of iamP and me. | ||
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I mean, if you want you can put it in the 1 hour between night and d2 if you don't want to influence stuff but I highly doubt that mafia is going to shoot him :p | ||
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Question: Do you honestly still believe I am mafia? I'm not going to say I played a good d1 or anything like that because Palmars the one who did but I think I was something like the 3rd guy voting Wiggles when WBG was still leading in votes. Do you really think I would have voted Wiggles so easily telling people that we should trust Palmar because he's the one most trustworthy out of WBG-Wiggles-Palmar ? Do you really think that's what I'd do as mafia, especially considering the timing of my posts? | ||
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On December 21 2012 11:01 Morbidius wrote: Some thoughts so far: Problably town: Sciberbia Palmar leaning town: Yamato Vivax WBG Leaning scum: Stutters Debears I need more time to make reads on the ones i didn't mention. What is making Sciberbia, Yamato, Vivax and WBG town in comparison to that it's apparently not even worth to list me there? I don't disagree with most of it it's just strange. Clearly it can't be their votes or their early votes on Wiggles, nor can it be their "behavior" when it came to voting, so I guess it has nothing to do with the Wiggles lynch and is just reads based while ignoring what happened at the deadline? | ||
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On December 21 2012 11:18 debears wrote: As I said, you all have a clean slate Palmar and yamato are town So you think I bussed Wiggles d1 when WBG was still leading in votes being the 3rd (or something like that) guy to switch telling people to trust Palmar on this one? All that while being concerned about the lynch as I kept on talking with people to try and understand what's going on, especially with wiggles to see what he's going to write (like when I asked about what he thinks about Palmar+WBG+Wiggles+myself) ? And you honestly didn't undestand why I said that according to you team mafia is palmar + me + Wiggles + iamp against the rest? You're joking, right? | ||
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On December 21 2012 13:03 Promethelax wrote: [...] Toad: I think I saw you asking Wiggles about his reads on you/Palmar/WBG what are your thoughts on his answers now that he has flipped? What are your thoughts on the other two guys? You three are the vets I respect most who are in this game and I'd like reads from all three of you on the other two. [...] I considered it incredibly weird that Wiggles wasn't pushing or at least scared of any of us 3. He answered trying to dodge the question, not willing to say something concrete, basicly saying that he doesn't want to lynch any of us. Completly ignoring bugs, completly ignoring me, saying Palmar MIGHT be a lynch later on. So that was one of the reasons I was reassured about the Wiggles-lynch. Also he kept talking the way I accused him to talk: political correctness, without getting to a point to please the masses with cute phrases, might have also been him being from Canada though :p About us 3 I still feel bad about WBG but saying I want to lynch him would be incredibly retarded :p Palmar looks obviously good and I am town, so no need to talk about the two of us (from my point of view). I really don't think team mafia consists of WBG + Wiggles, so we leave him alive because the only way for my early read on him to be correct is if he flips SK and there's just no reason to search for an SK so early on when we don't need to and don't even know what the NK's look like. Basicly it's like this: If we / you guys lynch two more mafias and the game is not over we lynch Bugs. As long as that scenario doesn't seem to appear we drag him along. About the other 2 mafias + Show Spoiler [click me] + yeah... I don't know the number of mafias in the game but let's be honst... If I had to make a call right now I'd say morb + debears but I haven't looked to much into morb at all, so it's more of a gut-feeling. I really didn't like his weird vote. | ||
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On December 21 2012 18:40 wherebugsgo wrote: that and my opinion pinballed every time someone new said something about Wiggles. Most of the time it was just meaningless air and no one saw what I saw about wiggles. One thing that was especially weird was Toad's comment on wiggles. I had noticed that wiggles was playing dota instead of being on here, and that drew a small concern for me (but I usually don't use out-of-game elements anymore to catch people, otherwise I might have mentioned it). However, Toad actually defended Wiggles on that front, which is just weird. I expected anyone who saw Wiggles playing dota and not posting here to call him scum. So you think I'd get in here and tell people that Wiggles is mafia because he was playing dota, like I myself did as well? That doesn't seem to make sense. I wasn't defending him either, I just mentioned it and stated that it was part of my earlier doubts. | ||
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On December 21 2012 23:40 wherebugsgo wrote: this is c9++, the # of mafia is almost certainly 3. SK doesn't really matter for now, unless we see 2 kills. Well, you did bus VE in LI. It's not out of the ordinary for you to do something incredibly stupid as scum. At this point it's not likely, but I just found it strange that you chose him playing dota as a doubt of your read on him. As for who is scum, just look no further than morbidius. Okay let's picture the situation just to get straight what you're saying right now: I am playing dota with Hassy and Greymist; Wiggles is joining as well and my reaction should be "that dude is playing dota instead of posting in the thread, just like I am. Given that I am doing the exact same thing as town I should probably take 'playing dota instead of posting in the thread* as a mafia-treat because frankly my sample-size I've got proves that 100% of townies I know do the exact same thing." Sounds legit. | ||
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On December 22 2012 00:23 wherebugsgo wrote: you're wondering that because you didn't read the thread properly. I've been calling out morbidius for a while now. sometimes, you say such stupid shit, it's really fucking frustrating. This is one of those moments. Here's the difference: At the time I made the observation, you were posting. He was not. Get it? I know that I posted more than Wiggles and you should know that posting a bunch isn't indicating anything at all when we're talking about me, so we're left alone with the Dota-observation. I posted this to make you think about my situation because you said I should have considered it weird. Maybe it was from your point of view but it simply wasn't for me. I didn't see him play dota. I actively played dota with him myself, being on skype and all. Calling him out on that while I'm playing dota myself, WITH HIM, while I'm part of the reason he's playing (alongside with Hassy and Greymist) would be the most backwards thing ever. Anyways this is going nowhere. You apparently think I should have considered it weird. I don't. Not that shitting up the thread is a realistic threat during night-phases but I'm already posting way more than I wanted to | ||
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On December 22 2012 01:02 Vivax wrote: Toad, you've been joking around about debears implying you had to be scum along with 3 others. What do you really think of him after all this Hickhack you've been doing with him? + Show Spoiler + Germans understand that word  Posts like these: On December 21 2012 06:32 debears wrote: Lets not lynch wiggles his activity and fighting against sheeps makes me think more lilely town ##unvote ##vote zelblade Unless anyone wants to join me with iamp are troublesome and I'd gladly insta-lynch anyone posting something like that if I know him to be a decent player, which I don't. Let's be honest here, a "sry got a bad feeling, won't vote Wiggles" without any more reasoning than that would have been better than that post. Still think he's mafia over all. His reads are making a bit more sense result-wise + Show Spoiler + imo, obviously can't speak with certainty... Although the reads are better than what he said yesterday I still don't like how he's getting them. Like I just said, the post I quoted above; his reasoning for not wanting to lynch Wiggles is utterly horrible. Bad thing is that NK's are probably not going to help us figure out anything | ||
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On December 22 2012 01:27 debears wrote: Are you fucjing serious? You don't think the mafia is weak after a pretty much unopposed godfather lynch on day one. What has that to do with what I just said? | ||
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let me reprhase: I don't like the reasoning you are providing for a lot of things you say/said earlier. Like the unvote on Wiggles. Like "Toad being lazy = Toad is mafia". Like saying I'm still probably mafia after the Wiggles lynch although you changed that one. Like saying iamP is mafia simply because he was after you (I don't think iamP is a shining beacon of townieness either btw, although it might have looked that way when talking to you). The fact that the reads are better is enough to make me say I don't want you shot right now and take a closer look at you. I still think the best and by far most simple explanation is that you're just a mafia but saying it's out of the question that you're a misguided townie who tunneled like a mad man on d1 and therefor ruined your own game by throwing yourself off would be a lie. I'm considering those options right now. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pkw4k.png) People who voted WBG early on might be a mafia-treat. WBG was the most serious alternative to Wiggles besides Zelblade. Zelblade hasn't flipped yet but I mentioned that I can't imagine Wiggles and WBG both being mafia. Worst case would be wiggles = mafia, WBG = SK imo. Zelblade is still open, so that's why I only include the WBG votes. Also because the one flipped mafia voted WBG and obviously it's in mafias interest to not have Wiggles lynched, even if WBG is SK because they don't know that either. people who voted Wiggles late = the last 3 people imo. Could have added sciberbia if your definition of "late" is "exactly after majority has been reached" but I'd say that's too drastic. Vivax might be getting bonus points for voting morbidius but that's just speculation as long as neither of them flipped. | ||
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On December 22 2012 02:43 Vivax wrote: Toad...I HAD to write a read on Wiggles, I promised I would. Sorry if I found him to be scummy enough for the vote afterwards, but of what use would it have been to keep my vote on Morbidius? If anything, the vote I delivered is the exact opposite of what mafia would have wanted. I didn't include any read at all in my diagram. It was just completly objective looking at 2 mafiatreats given the situation: 1) voting WBG 2) voting Wiggles late Both things mafia would have liked to do because they want someone other than wiggles dead / because they want to only switch to wiggles if it's really looking like he's going to get lynched. No analysis beyond those two points, just old fashioned vote-analysis. I'm in no way saying the both of you are mafia (because of it). I'm saying those circumstances look bad because you and morbidius happen to have done both. We could include the "voted Wiggles early" category, which would make me look a bit better on that diagram and it would include Yamato+Palmar but there's really no reason to include town-reads in a voting-analysis. About who's going to be shot: Yeah there's really no way anyone but Palmar's going to be shot unless Mafia is REALLY scared about a medic, but even if they are I don't see them going after any of the other alternatives. There's really no wifom. If we got a medic that guy protects Palmar :p And I'm really not scared about Palmar at all, even if he survives and someone else dies (unlikely) because Palmar is someone who's pretty easy to read as days go by. It's gotten harder ever since he changed his town-meta but that's the reason for saying "it's pretty easy" instead of saying "it's incredibly easy to read Palmar". Palmar just can't play mafia. comparable to Sandroba. + Show Spoiler [wifom] + If it really is Wiggles + Palmar being mafia they would have bussed Palmar to give wiggles mass towncred and not the other way around because as I just said, Palmar is pretty easy to read as mafia beyond d2 or d3 | ||
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On December 22 2012 03:02 Promethelax wrote: Ya, jailkeeper on palmar is the only right choice here. The joys of us only having JK and not Doc is also that if Palmar is scum (something I'm always paranoid about with strong players) we'll still Roleblock him. Toad, along with your vote analysis implicating Viv and Morb do you feel it exonerates those early voters you talked about? yamato and Palmar and maybe yourself? Yeah I do.
I just don't see a reason why any of us should vote Wiggles the way we did at the time we did. I get that WBG is paranoid because of LI but just because I'm good as mafia doesn't mean I'm mafia because I did something that strongly points towards me being town... | ||
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I really don't care about that right now. As mentioned, Palmar is going to be shot most likely, there's no reason not to make people like myself or Yamato a target because we won't be shot. EVEN if one of us ends up being shot, which is highly unlikely, I'd say it's a good deal to have Palmar around instead of Yamato or myself :p | ||
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From what I've seen it's Morb but I would categorize it as a gut-feeling right now. | ||
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On December 22 2012 03:32 Promethelax wrote: Feel free Palmar, but I'm town so its a waste of your time. What about me is dumb? Toad, which players have you played with who are in this game? Both of Zelblade and Prom, I think I coached a game or watched a game with sciberbia but might be wrong on that one, WBG, iamperfection, I think I coached a game or watched a game with Vivax but might be wrong on that one, Wiggles, Palmar. I think that's it. It's actually quite a lot of people I haven't played with because I did that 2-3 month mafia pause and there's a lot of new guys I don't know. Makes me a sad Toad I really hate judging people I never played with before, especially if they're new guys. | ||
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The whole case on Zel was basicly "dude's a luker" which IS alignment indicating if we're talking about Zelblade but he apparently had some issues and it wasn't active lurking but being replaced out. So yeah I'd say we should keep calm about him right now. Tunneling people like a mad man shows the worst side of the guy tunneling and should not be enforced. We don't want to have 4 parties tomorrow screaming "NO YOU SHUT UP, MY LYNCH CANDIDATE IS TEH BEST!" like a little egocentric kid, and that's something comming from me. | ||
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On December 22 2012 08:24 Morbidius wrote: For those who know the players here I'd like to ask: how experienced is Prome? He comes off as town but he seems a bit... Dumb. why do you think he's dumb? I get that yamato and prom are having a pissing contest so I'd understand him saying something like that, not that I like it but if you want to say something like that you should usually get a little more into detail and explain why you think so. At least quote the post you're referring to... | ||
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On December 25 2012 04:14 Clarity_nl wrote: | ||
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