Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII

On December 08 2012 23:20 kitaman27 wrote:


Achievement hoarder :p

On December 12 2012 02:05 Clarity_nl wrote:
shz I'm glad you're excited to start playing. Since odds are you'll be waiting for XXXII to finish, maybe start obsing some of the ongoing games or read some of the guides here on teamliquid ^^
If you pm the host of an ongoing game you can get a link to the obs QT where people like to think out loud, you might learn something, I know I do. ^^

On December 13 2012 09:03 marvellosity wrote:


As opposed to brightly noted?

On December 13 2012 09:19 Promethelax wrote:
no no no, it is ##Vote: marvellosity, formatting matters.

On December 15 2012 03:24 marvellosity wrote:


Self-aware millers should always claim in C9++ setup.

On December 19 2012 09:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm PST, my only other experience with Mafia is playing the SC2 mod so I guess we will see if any of those skills translate to this.

On December 19 2012 10:59 Mocsta wrote:


@shz

This is not asking about the mafia special powers [i.e "what they can do].

I was asking about tactics/methodology behind play. [You stated lurking isnt the best strategy]

What do you think is a suitable mafia strategy?

On December 19 2012 18:48 Spaghetticus wrote:


I'm not sure they meant to actually throw in your vote, these things normally start with a niggle of suspicion.

On December 19 2012 20:01 Mocsta wrote:


Thanks for the support! Always appreciated.

I wasn't concerned about the vote. At some stage everyone will have a vote cast against them. Its the nature of the game.

      Ultimately, all the items he raised (I should say re-quoted...), I had already refuted in previous posts.


My concern was over shz sheeping others comments. Not sure if bad/lazy townie play, or mafia motives.
[i.e. Need to read filters]

For all of the lurker discussions going to and fro. I think its disconcerting to throw accusations without either evidence, or bringing any new thought process to the table.



Either way, as Cakepie referenced before in his awesome (and ?sole?) post.


I agree with this sentiment, and do not want to discourage people from making comments. We need a town environment where people are willing to speak up (CONSTRUCTIVELY!)

On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote:

shz: Tried to provide a case on mocsta as an alternative to cDgCorazon. However, the fast town read was first pointed out by spaghetticus, and OmniEulogy was the one who first pointed to the questions about scum startegy. Not sure the case is viable at this point, but I agree that Mocsta seems a bit too eager.

Q: Evaluate my play. Does it look town, or does it look scum? Why?

On December 20 2012 03:09 threesr wrote:

No I dont like writing a lot.

On December 20 2012 04:36 cakepie wrote:


Really? As opposed to Mocsta, who you have your vote on?
If you had to lynch for inactivity and/or lack of serious contribution, how would you order the 3-4 candidates?

On December 20 2012 08:46 threesr wrote:
Have you even read all the posts previous to this one? No one has even bothered to respond to cakepie's questions, and all of you supposedly think he is the best contributor to the town. Seems like you are so obsessed with pushing a lynch on me that you have neglected to read all of the previous posts.

On December 20 2012 11:50 Chromatically wrote:
@shz
We should be lynching the player who is most likely to flip scum, not based on any information we might gain. We can look at association stuff after the flip, but we want to focus on lynching scum before. Based solely on who will flip scum, who do you want to lynch and can you move your vote there?

On December 20 2012 12:48 Chromatically wrote:
@Spag
Our objective as town is to lynch mafia. What we should not be doing is lynching for information instead of lynching mafia. The information gained from a flip is not great enough that we should lynch a townier player. If you look at what shz's post actually says, there's very little actual conclusions that could be drawn. Most of it is just "x is possible scum". All of it is just worrying about the d2 lynch, which we should do on d2 instead of now.
I dislike your post saying that we should "expect a town lynch". Good towns can find scum d1. Good players can be correct in their reads with over "40%" certainty.

On December 20 2012 11:56 OmniEulogy wrote:
That is true but I think he's saying all three of them are the top scum picks and then based on information we gain from each of them the one we benefit the greatest from is Corazon from his list.

On December 20 2012 12:59 Chromatically wrote:
I'm just saying that we shouldn't lynch based on the amount of 'information' we get. Yes, of course it's always possible for the lynch to flip town. And yes, there is information to be gained from associations. But association cases should wait until d2 when we actually know a players' alignment.
Basically, we lynch the most scummy player and then look at association d2. There's no benefit to looking at it now if we are trying to lynch mafia.

On December 21 2012 07:25 Spaghetticus wrote:
Morning guys. Just had a brief read through, looks like I'm screwed -_-

How much time left until the lynch? Should I bother defending myself or should I make a final statement?

On December 22 2012 00:04 Kickstart wrote:
@SHZ
Why did you jump on every bandwagon without giving any reasons at all for why you think those players are scummy? Do you have any current scum reads that you would be willing to push instead of sheeping?

On December 23 2012 05:45 Chromatically wrote:
His first "contribution" is here. This looks like a good post at first: it's fairly long, it covers a lot of topics. However, all this is is a summary of what's happened so far. He doesn't take any stances on any of the issues of the time: look at the wishy-washiness on Corazon. He's afraid to take an actual stand, so he says things like "they seem a bit weak" instead of taking a position on it himself.
This is merely the first in a long line of posts of this type, taking no stances while writing long posts anyway:

On December 23 2012 05:45 Chromatically wrote:
He votes Corazon shortly after this post, but with no other justification. He's blatantly lynching for information and is not even paying remote attention to whether Corazon is actually scummy or not. This is the first time he's actually mentioned Corazon since his first (non)read. This was also during the phase of the competing threesr/Corazon wagons, so this is obviously an extremely safe vote.

On December 23 2012 05:45 Chromatically wrote:
Apart from that, that's it. shz has:
- sheeped onto Cora and Spag with no reasoning when the wagons took off
- posted long posts that look good, but take no stances at all
- lynched solely for information
- done nothing else

On December 23 2012 13:16 Aquanim wrote:

So you're saying that you think Omni is town regardless of Chromatic's alignment. Could you justify this some more?

On December 23 2012 13:32 Sylencia wrote:
shz: what of the flipside, would that reveal anything about Chrome depending on what Omni is? Considering that Omni was the one that was under fire, I was trying to work it out myself

If Omni flips scum, I'd be more inclined to believe Chrom is likely town
If Omni flips town, I am not sure it really gives much info about Chrom.

Do you have a different perspective on that?

On December 23 2012 13:27 cDgCorazon wrote:


I feel like his earlier votes, along with his vote for you, are pressure votes to get you to contribute and defend yourself, things which you haven't done until now.

In the case of Threesr, I was in the same thought pattern as you, except I feel like Threesr is coming back with a bad town/bad mafia reading. Both do not really affect us. I feel like we should leave Threesr alone for now because we have bigger fish to fry, and we can tell is someone in the future is mafia if they are under fire and respond by going after Threesr.

On December 23 2012 14:07 cDgCorazon wrote:


That sir, is where you are sadly misinformed. If you've read the thread, you would see that Spag defended me, not attacked me. If Omni and I are scum, Omni would not have thrown me under the bus Day 1. That is a strategy scum would do if they wanted to lose. He would also not go on the offensive against someone who defended his scum mate, the logical thing to do would keep his vote on me and ride out Spag's lynch on Day 1. You don't understand why he would make a case against me and call me "100%" scum if we were both scum as well. I think you are taking the "Newbie" title in this thread just a bit too seriously. If the scum were to do things that you are suggesting the scum are doing, then this game would be over in 3 days.

If you are going to accuse me of being scum buddies with Omni, you need to look at my filter. I have not made any huge argument for or against Omni in the entire game. To me, this just seems like you reaching for connections that just don't exist, and reads that you are hoping we are stupid enough to believe.

##unvote
##Vote:Shz

On December 24 2012 05:02 Kickstart wrote:
Why the list post ;/. And why do that and say you are convinced we will find connections when you could look for them yourself and then post those? I was waiting for you to do something to convince me that you might be town but that post wasn't it.

On December 24 2012 05:29 Chromatically wrote:
Omni, if you vote shz, he might get enough votes to be lynched over you.

On December 24 2012 05:52 Chromatically wrote:
Of course he should vote you to survive. There's no way that you don't understand that.

shz and OmniEulogy scumteam 100%

On December 24 2012 06:10 Chromatically wrote:

Omni and shz
Omni knows for certain that shz is town. Obviously, he would rather get shz mislynched than have himself lynched.
Omni would vote for shz..

On December 24 2012 06:23 Chromatically wrote:
Because you're scum, silly!
Seriously, the only other reason that he might not vote for you in that circumstance is because he's WIFOM bombing us hardcore. That's a terrible move strategically though, and it's unlikely in the face of the other associations.

Looks like shz's not getting lynched today, might as well consolidate to prevent any shenanigainry:
##Unvote
##Vote: OmniEulogy

On December 24 2012 07:08 Aquanim wrote:
It looks constructive at first glance, but doesn't tell us anything in particular. Also, by limiting yourself to talking only about established facts rather than your own opinions, it doesn't commit you to any inconvenient beliefs you'll have to square your later play with.

On December 19 2012 17:05 Kickstart wrote:
DON'T LURK, LURKING BAD.

On December 24 2012 08:58 OmniEulogy wrote:
hahahahahahaha

On December 24 2012 09:02 Chromatically wrote:
WTF

On December 24 2012 05:52 Chromatically wrote:
shz and OmniEulogy scumteam 100%

On December 22 2012 08:58 cakepie wrote:
Sylencia: got a free pass D1 for being away, but had better start contributing. Looking okay so far in N1.5

On December 22 2012 10:24 cakepie wrote:The away / heavy lurking {Kickstart, Sylencia, OrangeRemi} are null-, with kickstart being of most concern. Their play on D2 (or lack thereof) will determine greatly how my read of them changes.

On December 22 2012 09:08 cakepie wrote:I was roleblocked.

On December 24 2012 15:30 cakepie wrote:Are you going to build a case against Chromatically on D3? Who are your top two candidates that you have the most suspicions about?

On December 24 2012 15:30 cakepie wrote:
Notice I say "concerns" rather than "suspects" -- other than shz, it is still incredibly difficult to build a case on the others that would stick well. Such is the sorry state of our town.

On December 24 2012 08:42 shz wrote:
Chromatically could be very good mafia. He has a good stance inside the active contributors, he can dictate opinions. It could be a very good strategy to have one scum who is offensive and active while the other two are lurking and blending in.

[...]

My vote does not matter anyway, but I'm gonna go with my gut for now and really hope we either start giving lurker shit or they come out and contribute more so we can actually get something done.

##Vote: Chromatically

On December 24 2012 22:39 Sylencia wrote:
If pursuing Chroma is not a good move, why did you vote for him?

On December 24 2012 08:42 shz wrote:
My vote does not matter anyway, but I'm gonna go with my gut for now and really hope we either start giving lurker shit or they come out and contribute more so we can actually get something done.

##Vote: Chromatically

On December 24 2012 23:19 Sylencia wrote:
During day 2, you voted for Chrom.
Now, you're saying that pursuing Chrom is not a good move.

Why have you done a 180 on your actions?

On December 23 2012 19:24 Kickstart wrote:
Well you make a decent care against Orangeremi by pointing out all the weird things he has done. But could you maybe explain why you think they are scummy? He does a lot of flip-flopping (on spag and then on his stance on me) without any reason, but do you see a scum motive behind it? Especially say, giving me a null read after he gave me his 2nd highest scum read (since would it not be beneficial for scum to keep pressure on me)?

On December 27 2012 23:38 Chromatically wrote:

Were you more confident in the other lynches?

Seriously, this is the definition of the "hand-wringy scum thing" that marv talked about with Kickstart in XXXI. It's a lot easier to take a stand as scum if you act really uncertain about it, and that's exactly what he's doing when he's pressed for reads.
Shz hasn't been confident in a single lynch all game. He nearly completely ignored the lynches d1 and 2, and didn't even vote for someone d2. Not only is this the scum trait of being uninvolved in lynches, it shows how the above quote is bs. There's no reason for shz to act all uncertain about todays lynch when he hasn't participated in any other lynch. By doing this, he also excuses himself from giving any confident scumreads, like he's been avoiding all game. He's being pressed for reads so he chooses the easy one but acts nervous to make himself look better when he flips town.

I would be up for a shz lynch. At the very least, I'd have a very hard time voting Kickstart because of this.

On December 28 2012 09:16 cakepie wrote:


I was ready to vote Kick at XX:59, but with the tie vote rule, I decided to just sit here and sip my coffee instead.

On December 29 2012 16:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think you have some valid points there Shz.

Lets just say you are right, and FC/Orange is 1 scum and 1 town. Who is the scum to you, and who is the town?

On December 30 2012 13:32 Chromatically wrote:
I think that everyone agrees that the 1-1 thingy is possible or probable. I don't think that we should focus on it today, though. We can looks a associations and the like to find the second scum once we have a red flip, which we should focus on getting today. Let's try to lynch scum today rather than worry about lynching it tomorrow.
That being said, I'm not sure what else there is to say without FC responding to things. I'm pretty convinced on FC, much more so than Orange. Syl lynch is a bad idea for today, FC and Orange look worse.

On January 13 2013 13:27 Dandel Ion wrote:
Dude, if the host keeps delaying it, it means it'll never come.

Sad day. But deal w/ it.