EPTI want to be able to pull off "Well if you wanted me to think you're town, maybe you shouldn't have tried to lynch townies to save scum".
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
I want to be able to pull off "Well if you wanted me to think you're town, maybe you shouldn't have tried to lynch townies to save scum". | ||
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Palmar
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On December 14 2012 00:06 Djodref wrote: I know, I was being sarcastic, I'm totally up for a BL lynch today. Do you have any ideas for a possible scumteam ? What about a VE lynch? | ||
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Palmar
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I should lynch you Djodref, no one else should even be considered for today's lynch. To your record you have not only attempted two counterwagons yesterday, desperately trying to stop me lynching scum, but then you literally lied about your reasons for not addressing the actual scum. In fact, you talked about him, defended him quite a bit, but never saw a reason to actually try to ask him about anything. And then you claim you simply forgot the whole ordeal, which not only is very fortunate for you (until I dug through your filter), but also points to you not being very heavily invested in your opinions. Most people don't forget their opinions that easily. I don't know you, maybe you're just bad, but how the hell do I tell the difference? | ||
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Palmar
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Palmar
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When in doubt policy lynch. I'm not sold on a tunkeg lynch. Hapa is defending all the wrong people and I didn't like Munk-E from day 1, but I don't think I can reasonably attack him for scum without more information and analysis. The Bluelightz thing is another instance of someone whose only possible defense is being too scummy to be scum. I'm not gonna defend him based on that, and I wish we could like quadruple lynch today. I'm also very wary of VisceraEyes. But, in the end, I'm kinda confused because so many people are playing like retards. Jay's Clarity&Palmar are scum theory is so out there that it's almost lynchworthy, but hey, apparently it's okay to be retarded and thus make the game 10x harder than it should be. And so, I'm voting Djodref. I am suggesting a lynch on Djodref for three reasons: 1. Attempting twice to go after another player over Adam The only defense for Djodref here is that he's too scummy to be scum. The theory is that no scum would so openly and ridiculously blatantly attempt to derail a scum lynch. It's a valid point, but maybe Djodref knows that? Here's his attempt to go after Tunkeg: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17206691 Here's his attempt to start a wagon on Jay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17210095 I would like to additionally point out that both these attempts come after Djodref claims to be slightly leaning scum on Adam: On December 11 2012 13:01 Djodref wrote: I've watched Palmar's video and I've changed my mind a little bit about your interactions with Adam. As a result, I would lean town on you and slightly scum on Adam but I'm not yet sold on him being scum. The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case. The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point. Generally people don't go so much out of their way to protect their scumreads? 2. Defending flipped scum repeatedly, yet never seeing any reason to interact with said scum Defending someone you think is town is fine. The problem is that generally you have a good reason for defending them. The fact that Djodref never tried to directly interact with someone who clearly was a pretty strong townread at the time looks kinda bad. I have a serious problem with this. Head to Djodref's filter, look at how much he talks ABOUT adam, but never TO adam. Coincidence? Maybe. But it's enough to raise alarms for me. Here's a link to his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&user=284165¤tpage=All Here's a link to my post where I checked all the people he interacted with: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17224951 3. When I asked about this strange lack of interactions, Djodref directly lied to me. Lynch all liars is a good policy. I think we should enforce it. Djodref's lie can be seen in the following posts: On December 13 2012 20:52 Palmar wrote: I also find it intriguing you never once addressed Adam, yet you have 93 instances of his name in your filter (including inside quotes). You directly interacted with both Tunkeg and Jay. You also attempted to counter-wagon Adam's lynch using both of them as targets. On December 13 2012 20:59 Djodref wrote: I was persuaded that jay and Tunkeg were mafia yesterday and far less sure about Adam. The lack of interactions with Adam could be explained because I was a bit wary of the debears/Adam interactions and didn't want to step in. After, I went sleeping and Adam went lurking. I didn't feel the need to interact with him yesterday, that would be my best explanation. But this is clearly false. As Djodref was indeed more than comfortable with stepping in to defend adam, as can be seen on multiple occasions in his filter, and I showed an example of three such posts in this reply to his explanation: On December 13 2012 21:03 Palmar wrote: List of Djodref not stepping in debears/Adam interactions: To be fair, he did claim he forgot about those posts. I don't believe a word of it. Djodref, your time has come. You are a protector of filth, and a liar. The good people of Liquidia shall see you hang in the name of justice. ##Vote Djodref | ||
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Palmar
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Palmar
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On December 14 2012 22:26 marvellosity wrote: that's because Tunkeg is a better lynch But it's so dangerous, if he's a terrible lynch we have to lynch you tomorrow, which would suck | ||
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Palmar
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Do you want this guy alive and kicking down the line? It's strictly the wrong play not to lynch him. Even if he somehow flips town, it's wrong not lynch him. No one should ever not be lynched after getting caught lying trying to hide the fact he was trying to defend scum. It's the most obvious lie since I've seen in a mafia game for a long time. That being said, I guess it's time I look at other people. But really, give this a thought. Do you want to have to think about Djodref in lylo? | ||
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Palmar
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On December 14 2012 22:52 thrawn2112 wrote: palmr can you rank 1-3 how confident you were/are about each of your scum reads ( adam, wbg, djo) [b]2. Adam[b] Adam I was pretty sure was scum based on a number of things, vaguely outlined in my short "case" against him and things I said on the video. 1. Bugs I was almost 100% convinced Bugs is scum, which is the strongest reason I might consider Tunkeg scum. Bugs was pushing the Tunkeg lynch, and I just don't believe Bugs could be possibly so arrogant/bad as to try to kill my wagon on scum, when he had a somewhat tentative town read on both me and marv who were on Adam. The solution to this is that Tunkeg is also scum which seems strange to me, but it's certainly a possibility. The other solution to me at the time was that Tunkeg was someone scum tried to push against the Adam lynch, which is why I thought Bugs was scum. So the options were: Bugs is good, Bugs is scum, Tunkeg's town Bugs is good, Bugs is town, Tunkeg's scum Bugs is bad, Bugs is town, Tunkeg's town I initially assumed the first option is the correct one, but that one was clearly wrong. So now I need to decide whether it's 2 or 3. 3. Djodref Djodref is a different case. It's not wrong that he's been somewhat willing to confront people, although after a very quick skim of another game where he was scum, he seems capable of that as scum. But the big thing here is the three-pillar case that I wrote earlier. I'm not convinced he's scum, but I know, after playing probably close to 50 forum mafia games that it is strictly the wrong play to not lynch him. It sucks balls if he's somehow town and has managed to fuck up repeatedly. But I have been burned in the past when letting people go and assuming they're just retarded. He's even playing the bad townie defense himself. The aggressive part of me wants to lynch him just because no one should get away with shit like this. Fuck alignments, he should be lynched on policy alone. The more passive part of me still wants to lynch him, because I've more than once kicked myself after games for letting people go when trying to account for stupidity. My options here are Djodref did scummy things, thus he's town Djodref did scummy things, thus he's scum Why should I pick number 1? | ||
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Palmar
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On December 14 2012 23:58 marvellosity wrote: let's not lynch BL, i'm enjoying his feistiness Palmar, I spent quite some time in Djo's filter yesterday and I just didn't feel as strongly about it as you seem to, nor do I think it is the correct 'solution'. I need to recheck this 'lie' bit though. Don't put quotes on it as it's a fact. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 14 2012 23:52 Tunkeg wrote: This is just horseshit and a real bad arguement for lynching him. Do we really want grush around at lylo, Bluelightz, thrawn? It could be said for half the remaining players. But it doesn't make your case on Djordref better (or worse for that matter). Scummieness is all he should be lynched for, leave all the other bullshit elsewhere. This is actually incorrect. Ideally people who are disruptive but possibly not scum (which seems to be what everyone but me thinks of Djodref) Should be dealt with through vigi hits, while people who can be proven to be scum should be dealt with by lynches. Lurkers/Inactive people tend to be really hard to read, and thus they're disruptive, this is why Vigilantes should almost always aim at such people. Liars are another class of people who should be killed on policy, but that's where the similarities end. You are correct, I really don't want people who don't play around at lylo either. But the difference is that Djodref's past actions can never go away, while the people currently not working hard may still improve their effort later in the game. So I think it's even more important to kill him early. Sure, if we're 100% sure someone is mafia and have a solid case on him, it's better to lynch that person. But any town lynch is worse than Djodref lynch at the moment, as he has the most incriminating posting history, regardless of possible alignment. And remember, I'm explaining this from the point of view that you guys are taking, that Djodref is just a bad townie, not scum. From my point of view it makes sense to lynch him because he's scum. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 15 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: Right, found it, this. I don't understand at all a player from either alignment doing this. It's just horrible. Slightly different tack: Palmar, what makes you think Tunkeg ISN'T a good lynch? I don't quite know. Not yet at least. This is as good time as any to tell you that if it comes down to the two, I'm going to support a Bluelightz lynch over a Tunkeg lynch... I think. But honestly I need to re-read Tunkeg, maybe bugs was onto something. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 11 2012 23:51 Palmar wrote: He has a ton of pointless inquiries that never became anything more than just him asking a bunch of stupid questions anyone with half a brain could've answered themselves. But when I initially read the first post in this exchange I understood Bluelightz to be defending Adam based on him being accusative, but I missed this exchange: On December 11 2012 22:10 Bluelightz wrote: I'm defending dabears first accusation. Which leads me to believe he was defending dabears, and consequently makes him look a lot better. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 15 2012 00:28 Vivax wrote: Wtf is up with you marv, can you find me one thing that could even suggest that BL is town? Look what I found. Just bringing this in here! On December 11 2012 21:24 Vivax wrote: I've read Adams filter. So basically, the case on him seems to be built on "the change of tone in his post". That post with changed tone dabears mentioned was written one day after the last ones, so it's likely that he's writing like that cause he's not heated up like the day before. That day, he finished into an OMGUS fight with dabears, where they basically both vote for each other cause they argue about having to vote for the people you lean scum on. And this is where the matter stinks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=9#171 This is dabeers post about Adam. OH SHIT HE'S SUSPICIOUS CAUSE HE'S NOT VOTING FOR THRAWN. Look at the post, look at the voting thread, look at the reactions. Adam voted before debears upon being accused by him of not voting thrawn, meanwhile, dabears accused Adam of something he himself did. Only clarity so far has expressed criticism of this case against Adam, now I will, too. 1.The case is shit 2.The case is shit 3.The case is shit Being this a shit case accepted by many people, I think there's scum trying to sheep in it. | ||
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Palmar
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Palmar
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On December 15 2012 00:35 Vivax wrote: I'm leaving my vote carved on BL, even grush's being more productive than that guy. And both of them are more productive than you. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 15 2012 00:37 Vivax wrote: I'm saying the same thing others said aswell: That dabears case was bad, even if it hit. List those "others". If you can't, you're lying. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 15 2012 00:40 Vivax wrote: I'm not doing jackshit. If you don't have a townread on me, you clearly need to l2p. Hey do you remember that time back in day 1 where I said I wanted to lynch Adam, which prompted you (for god knows what reason) to ask me what was my strongest scumread out of those, to which I (obviously) replied Adam. Do you remember when you came back 20 minutes later and called the case shit repeatedly, somehow after an interaction with me deciding to ignore my case and just read dabears's one, then pound your chest and call people shit. I even asked you to read my case instead of dabears's one. You conveniently ignored me. You broke my heart that day  | ||
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Palmar
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Tunkeg consequently looks worse too. I'm still working up the courage to read better what he has said. | ||
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