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On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why? I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself. Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier? He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now. As for Lazer: Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?
Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that.
Ugh, this game is making my head hurt. There are both towny and scummy traits in almost every filter. What worries me most about Lazermonkey is his lack of presence in the thread (I can't even remember his stance on ANYTHING from the top of my head). But looking at his filter again, I agree with many things he says and I don't get the feeling he's playing scummy WHEN he's playing. Then I looked at DYH's reasoning for voting Lazermonkey and I agree that Lazermonkey is the best Mafia candidate of those who voted DP to be lynched (especially since Lazermonkey's vote was such a weird OMGUS vote out of thin air). I'd really like other people's opinions on Lazermonkey right now.
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Day 2 Votecount
ShiaoPi (3) <-- set to be lynched
wherebugsgo
Sandroba
Lazermonkey
Keirathi (2)
Blazinghand
ShiaoPi
wherebugsgo (2)
debears
MrZentor
Blazinghand (1)
Keirathi
Zealos (1)
Xatalos
Lazermonkey(1)
DoYouHas
Not Voting (2)
Zealos
austinmcc
~18 hours until lynch.
Remember to ##Unvote [Player Name] when moving votes, or they won't be counted. E.g.
##Unvote: slOosh
##Vote: Qatol
The "slOosh" part is what we are looking for.
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On December 04 2012 14:11 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why? I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself. Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier? He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now. As for Lazer: On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?
Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that. Ugh, this game is making my head hurt. There are both towny and scummy traits in almost every filter. What worries me most about Lazermonkey is his lack of presence in the thread (I can't even remember his stance on ANYTHING from the top of my head). But looking at his filter again, I agree with many things he says and I don't get the feeling he's playing scummy WHEN he's playing. Then I looked at DYH's reasoning for voting Lazermonkey and I agree that Lazermonkey is the best Mafia candidate of those who voted DP to be lynched (especially since Lazermonkey's vote was such a weird OMGUS vote out of thin air). I'd really like other people's opinions on Lazermonkey right now.
If his lack of presence is the most worrying thing, why Lazer over Zealos, who hasn't done a goddamn thing?
Lazer might have OMGUS voted DP, but that's at least SOMETHING. Zealos was a non-factor day 1 and day 2.
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On December 04 2012 14:08 Keirathi wrote:
@debears:
What do you think about ShiaoPi?
Here's the problem I run into: ShiaoPi is no pillar of townieness
But, WBG has his vote on him. WBG used bad reasoning (picked out one thing VE did in VE's whole filter and said "yeah this is the main reason why ShiaoPi is scum". I'm pretty sure WBG is scum and his reasoning for voting ShiaoPi doesn't make sense
Could be:
scum voting scum
town voting scum
scum voting town
town voting town
I doubt it's option number 1 at this point. And I don't see number 4 as likely
So it leaves me with the middle two
So, that means that ShiaoPi is town in my eyes right now based off the fact I believe WBG is scum
:/
I gots some heavy critical thinking to do
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On December 04 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 14:11 Xatalos wrote:On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why? I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself. Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier? He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now. As for Lazer: On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?
Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that. Ugh, this game is making my head hurt. There are both towny and scummy traits in almost every filter. What worries me most about Lazermonkey is his lack of presence in the thread (I can't even remember his stance on ANYTHING from the top of my head). But looking at his filter again, I agree with many things he says and I don't get the feeling he's playing scummy WHEN he's playing. Then I looked at DYH's reasoning for voting Lazermonkey and I agree that Lazermonkey is the best Mafia candidate of those who voted DP to be lynched (especially since Lazermonkey's vote was such a weird OMGUS vote out of thin air). I'd really like other people's opinions on Lazermonkey right now. If his lack of presence is the most worrying thing, why Lazer over Zealos, who hasn't done a goddamn thing? Lazer might have OMGUS voted DP, but that's at least SOMETHING. Zealos was a non-factor day 1 and day 2.
Yeah, and there's the problem.
2 guys not doing shit. Include sandroba in that list. Hasn't done much either :/
What are the odds that one of the 3 non contributors are scum at this point? Hard to say
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I thought BH had his vote on WBG
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Ok, after filtering VE and WBG for myself, I've come to a few conclusions. Please give these things a fair trial. Look at them as objectively as you can, and filter them for yourself if you don't want to take my word for it.
I think I was wrong about Keirathi. VE's talking towards Ace sounds exactly like buddying. I don't see VE and Ace being on a scumteam together.
I'm even more confident in my read of Lazer. (My Original Case) + Show Spoiler [VE's Mention's of Lazer] + On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 02:33 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:austin, I agree that I don't like this vote: On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.
I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.
I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.
As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will). DoYouHas Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play? As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas Just because debears himself won't sheep someone on reputation doesn't mean people don't, and it doesn't make it inherently scummy to think that people do. I can find various instances of townies basically just sheeping me (e.g. Clarity, iamperfection) To be frank, I do think almost everyone are more willingly to sheep players who are considered to be stronger rather than newbies even if they deny it. At least to some extent. I think it's a part of your subconscious. Truth. Something to do with pack mentality, wanting to fit in, etc. etc. Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/ On December 01 2012 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs I looked at marv earlier. It's not his job to keep the thread coherent, it's his job to find and lynch scum...which he's doing a better job than you of at present (pending reading up on Monkeynutz which I haven't done.)
You got anything other than "Yeah what Ace said"....which is nothing btdubz. On December 01 2012 11:52 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 11:50 debears wrote:On December 01 2012 11:48 Ace wrote:
There's nothing wrong with it. only 4 posts in day 1 though....none of quality :/ Depends on your definition of quality. His observation of Lazer was pretty accurate, if a little hypocritical. However, town and scum are hypocritical in equal measure, so that's pretty null imo.
For reference, that third quote is Ace responding to what he thinks about WBG's play.
-First quote. A complete nothing interaction. Null to scummy.
-Second quote. Shows he was already paying close attention to the early pressure WBG put on Lazer. Also, VE is making an excuse for not properly looking into Lazer up until this point. Where was the pressure for him to do this? (In his own head, because Lazer is scum.)
-Third quote. Without ever looking to push, explain, or analyze Lazer, VE comes out saying that WBG was pretty accurate in his observations about Lazer. Those observations were ~3 negative points ending in a vote. VE agrees with Bugs that Lazer has been acting scummy, but what does he do then? Nothing. Scum do not simply allow scummy looking town to be left alone. They push them to make it seem like they are scum hunting, they defend them to show that they are right if that person flips later. VE's 3rd post is distancing, plain and simple, there is no other explanation.
I do not like a WBG lynch anymore. The interactions between WBG and VE give me far more of a town read than a scum read. You can get some of that from when bugs is mentioned in my case on Lazer above, more if you read VE's filter. Also there are Bugs' original questions:
On November 30 2012 12:23 wherebugsgo wrote:
Questions:
Why is Blazinghand so useless?
Why has VE not complained about the lack of scumhunting?
Why did Lazermonkey find the need to vote Ace before telling us all he'd be on later?
Why does Xatalos seem scummy but has received the most attention, but not that many votes?
I find myself questioning a lot in this game.
In his first post Bugs is calling out both VE and Lazer, and later he votes Lazer with pretty good reasoning.
I hope I have finally convinced you of Lazer's guilt. And if you grant me that, it is very unlikely for a scum to use his first post to call out 2 of his teammates, and then follow through with a case on one of them.
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On December 04 2012 14:35 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 14:11 Xatalos wrote:On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why? I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself. Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier? He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now. As for Lazer: On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?
Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that. Ugh, this game is making my head hurt. There are both towny and scummy traits in almost every filter. What worries me most about Lazermonkey is his lack of presence in the thread (I can't even remember his stance on ANYTHING from the top of my head). But looking at his filter again, I agree with many things he says and I don't get the feeling he's playing scummy WHEN he's playing. Then I looked at DYH's reasoning for voting Lazermonkey and I agree that Lazermonkey is the best Mafia candidate of those who voted DP to be lynched (especially since Lazermonkey's vote was such a weird OMGUS vote out of thin air). I'd really like other people's opinions on Lazermonkey right now. If his lack of presence is the most worrying thing, why Lazer over Zealos, who hasn't done a goddamn thing? Lazer might have OMGUS voted DP, but that's at least SOMETHING. Zealos was a non-factor day 1 and day 2. Yeah, and there's the problem. 2 guys not doing shit. Include sandroba in that list. Hasn't done much either :/ What are the odds that one of the 3 non contributors are scum at this point? Hard to say
Re: Sandroba -
Compare these posts
On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote:
I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early:
Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM):
WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum.
Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said.
DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through.
Scummers :
Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it.
People that I'm unsure but leaning scum:
VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though.
(this game)
vs
On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote:
I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum.
This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum.
That was from Looney, where he was town. Go look through the rest of his filter. It feels pretty similar to what he's said/done so far this game.
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EBWOP: Meant to include this post as well -
On October 13 2012 22:51 sandroba wrote:
What is even there to talk about? Over the time I've been playing mafia I grew more and more away from hard analysis and began to use apparent integrity and sincerity of people's post as a way to tell scum and town appart. That means that the way I do it is completely subjective to what I consider to be a post (from the particular person I'm looking at) to be honest. Of course the method is not flawless and is completely dependant on my ability to make that judgement, but it served me right in the past and I see no reason to change it. From that place you can see clearly that any explanation I provide you with for my reasoning wouldn't apply to everyone and is not verifyable. What you can do is check for the same things I do. The motives and truthfulness behind my posts and see if you think I'm trying to put on a show or I'm speaking my mind without the fear of consequence. If you can make that distinction then you will have a good idea of my alignment.
The stupid exercise of breaking posts apart and endelessly saying things are "scummy" without even defining and not even knowing what scummy means is what brings this tiresome conversation that I refuse to take part of where everyone indulges each other and strikes each other's dicks.
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On December 04 2012 14:36 debears wrote:
I thought BH had his vote on WBG
On December 04 2012 12:30 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 05:08 slOosh wrote:
Remember to ##Unvote [Player Name] when moving votes, or they won't be counted.
I let this slide Day 1, particularly because it was close to the deadline. Please observe the voting protocol for moving an existing vote.
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@DYH:
I'm going to sleep, but I'll think about Lazer some more while I sleep. Some of his posts I just don't see coming from scum, but his interactions with VE leave me with some doubt.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Ah, this is what I get for not carefully reading the OP
##unvote keirathi
##vote WBG
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@BH:
Care to comment on Lazer or Zealos?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yeah sure I'll sit down with their filters. That and a couple of other things are on my to-do list. I see you're still parking your vote on me, a yellow-bellied choice if ever there was one.
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On December 04 2012 15:11 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah sure I'll sit down with their filters. That and a couple of other things are on my to-do list. I see you're still parking your vote on me, a yellow-bellied choice if ever there was one.
My vote will change before the deadline. I'm just not sure to whom yet.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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I'm sorry for being so absent yesterday. I was very busy IRL : /. Reading through the thread right now!
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On December 04 2012 09:23 ShiaoPi wrote:Snip @Lazer: you fucking suck, I don't even want to start where your "case" is bad. You still have not read what I wrote regarding Xatalos (or you are just too thick to read properly), Regarding BH, I tried to get more out of him during the time I was online, look here: Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 23:48 ShiaoPi wrote:
-snip-
I'm more interested in BH now. I know that his metareading is pretty good(see liquid city) but I dont agree at all with his read on DP, I also cant see how he can be that sure of it right now....
BH you here right now? What makes you so certain? Also did your opinion change on DP following his spat with lazer? Well sucks to be in me in my timezone, but there is only so much you can do if nobody is around for the time you are. If you think my reasons to vote Keirathi are OMGUS you really need to properly reread what the term omgus means...... Now what about you share some of your reads in thread? Do you got any other reads besides me? What is your opinion on Keirathi or Bugs? Snip I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that.
Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak.
Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak.
Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him.
Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm.
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DYH: Your case against me is based on the assumption that scum would split their votes and other players, mainly VEs interactions with me. Without these assuomtions, your case falls.
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btw
What's up with Zealos? Is he getting modkilled/replaced?
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EPT
