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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I don't buy DYH's case on LM. I think he's using associative tells incorrectly, basically. VE is tricky motherfucker. When we draw associative tells based on flips, here's what we can say: Town players were honest, and Scum players were scum. The fact the VE soft-defended LM is meaningless. If you want to make a case against LM, you do it based on how he acted. Has he pushed a town agenda or a scum agenda? How did he interact towards VE? I don't think reading into VE's motives and trying to figure out what exactly his agenda was with these LM mentions is valuable. I think the fact that DYH says this is annoying: On December 04 2012 12:02 DoYouHas wrote:
I think my vote analysis of Lazer is sound, and is enough to make him a great lynch, which is why I haven't really dug into him. Clearly the rest of you don't agree, and would prefer a wall of text case -_-.
This is literally DYH being lazy because he's confirmed town. He is making a case against Lazer based on something other than Lazer's filter. I have a townread on Lazer, though I don't think he's leonardo di nostradamus or anything but he's hunting scum and pushing a town agenda. People who want to push Lazer need to provide a reason why LM is scummy, beyond VE soft-defending him and not mentioning him much/enough. You're doing your associative tells backwards.
I have no read on Zealos. I had a townread on him based on how he played through D1 but he hasn't been around, so he's inactive
I don't like how Xatalos has been noncomittal, but this seems more like an honest open townie thing than a scum player trying to avoid giving reads. I'm telegraphing this from the way he's phrasing things and how he's interacting with others in the thread.
MrZentor has been sticking to my ass like day-old bubble gum but he's reasoning things out and I think we genuinely just are in agreement about most things. Town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
BTW DYH I've been there. It's easy, and in fact common for people who think of themselves as confirmed to lay off the throttle. If you want to convince me about LM, please show me how he's been scummy, with a reasoning OTHER than "VE soft defended LM briefly once". Your unwillingness to vote WBG is based on one of his opening posts in which he asks VE a question, a question WBG didn't follow up on, and he doesn't mention VE again until after VE flips.
Remember WBG's reaction to Marv's case? Where Marv points out that WBG asked a bunch of questions WBG he won't follow up on (and I note WBG always follows up and presses on his questions)? How did WBG react to that?
On December 02 2012 05:48 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:52 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 10:49 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah and his questions this game are just as relevant as the questions in LI. Really don't see what's got you so convinced marv. i take it i need to teach you how to read here he throws out a bunch of questions he has no intention of following up on in the first 24 hours of LI that you kindly linked, he interacts with town, has several posts, and asks at least 3 different players who they want to kill and who they think they are scum gl finding the same thing this game How does he know what I think based on one post I made at the time? He says I had no intention on following up on my questions, before i had posted anything. ??? He calls out Zealos at some point for misrepresentation, yet this is as shining of an example of misrepresentation as one could ever find. ##unvote Zealos
##vote marvellosity
Classic OMGUS. but also, WBG's meta defense is basically that he INTENDS to follow up on his question.
There's no follow up, because this is no town WBG. Those questions are red herrings, thrown out there to make him look town. But they aren't herrings! They are albatrosses, which will hang around his slender neck and drag him to the gallows for us.
Join me: lynch WBG today.
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BH I see you got a town read on ShiaoPi. Or at least not a scum read as of yet. Like I said earlier, I think his interactions with VE aren't very telling because VE could've tricked us hard anyway. However, as I wrote in my case earlier, what do you think about the fact that he basically always have been attacking the person that is under the most pressure, always jumping off the person when there are noone left chasing him? And I also don't think his reasons for chasing these persons have been super strong. Long story short, I have scum reads on both Shiao and WBG, why should I vote WBG over Shiao?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Answer time:
On December 04 2012 09:53 Keirathi wrote:
-snip-
Why are you leaning town on him now? What in your read through changed your mind? Why do you think I should have come to the same conclusion?
I am leaning town on him now, because of several things:
-letting DYH survive
-I was able to see where he was coming from, while reading the filter again, in regards to the way he played it out.
-BH's post n1/d2 have all been much more helpful than d1 and also more helpful than you are.
On December 04 2012 18:53 Lazermonkey wrote:
I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that.
Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak.
Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak.
Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him.
Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm.
You are totally in gaga-land right? Judging from your post it seems as nothing I say will make you stop this stupid tunnel.
Not even looking into Keir at this point is just utterly incomprehensible to me.
Take a look at his filter and at Ace's, now first off Ace, he has been entirely unhelpful for d1, just sniping in comments without much reasoning (oh and he was a dick anyway), now look at Keirathis entrance, it totally derails the thread into the discussion at the end of d1 with his insane tunnel on BH, also his unwillingness to do anything besides tunneling is irking me out, but since you are doing the same with me, I guess that did not matter much to you.
screw you, done talking with you.
Now moving on:
I do not like the way bugs reacted to the pressure at all, he is doing nothing to confront the case, just repeatedly saying that it is bad, while being totally unhelpful on why exactly I should be lynched. I mean even Kei has started to slowly look somewhere else than BH and is by now more useful than bugs....
Also this:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote:Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about. This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr." If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote:
EBWOP
and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O you say that as if it was foreseeable. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky) WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on. Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP.
When he could be making more posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it.
ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor,
Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:and stuff like this: On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote:
Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it.
Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town.
is some damn fine analysis (and to Kei it is also one of the reasons why BH is town to me.), austin also mentioned movie mini mafia, which I think was a pretty good educated guess.
Add that to the fact that I am still getting lynched as of now and my Kei votes does not seem to get traction, I am switching now.
##unvote: Keirathi
##vote: Wherebugsgo
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I'm not confronting the case because there isn't one.
There isn't anything to refute beyond what I've already done. It's ludicrous that anyone expects me to continue to debate people who are so biased they cannot see why they are wrong.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On December 04 2012 20:21 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm not confronting the case because there isn't one.
There isn't anything to refute beyond what I've already done. It's ludicrous that anyone expects me to continue to debate people who are so biased they cannot see why they are wrong.
lol
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@ShaioPi and your suspicion of Keir.
I don't really care too much about Ace and what he did. You say his is dick, which I agree with but first off that isn't alignment indicative and secondly judging from other peoples response to it, it seems to be his meta. After reading through Keirs filter now, I can agree with you that he wasn't too helpfull for starters but once again, I don't think scum Keir would tunnel BH. As you also mention he have improved his posting and I thus I am treating him as slight town. While I don't agree with your reasoning still, I have made my points clear. It's up you to prove that you actually are town.
@WBG
I don't know what to say anymore...You are calling everyone retards instead of actually adressing the case. And yes, there is a case.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Lazer, ace was entirely unhelpful during d1, and you should care about it since Keirathi and Ace have the same alignment....
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On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Answer time: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:53 Keirathi wrote:
-snip-
Why are you leaning town on him now? What in your read through changed your mind? Why do you think I should have come to the same conclusion? I am leaning town on him now, because of several things: -letting DYH survive -I was able to see where he was coming from, while reading the filter again, in regards to the way he played it out. -BH's post n1/d2 have all been much more helpful than d1 and also more helpful than you are.
Point 1: Fine.
Point 2: Huh?
Point 3: And here's the kind of thing about you that I have a problem again. This is a bullshit line that doesn't MEAN anything. What about him has been helpful? What about me has been unhelpful? Fucking use some posts to back yourself up.
On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 18:53 Lazermonkey wrote:
I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that.
Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak.
Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak.
Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him.
Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm.
You are totally in gaga-land right? Judging from your post it seems as nothing I say will make you stop this stupid tunnel. Not even looking into Keir at this point is just utterly incomprehensible to me. Take a look at his filter and at Ace's, now first off Ace, he has been entirely unhelpful for d1, just sniping in comments without much reasoning (oh and he was a dick anyway), now look at Keirathis entrance, it totally derails the thread into the discussion at the end of d1 with his insane tunnel on BH, also his unwillingness to do anything besides tunneling is irking me out, but since you are doing the same with me, I guess that did not matter much to you. screw you, done talking with you.
Yet more pointless bullshit with nothing to back it up. My unwillingness to do anything but tunnel BH? I've literally commented on more people/things since I joined the game than you have since the start of day 1.
On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Now moving on: I do not like the way bugs reacted to the pressure at all, he is doing nothing to confront the case, just repeatedly saying that it is bad, while being totally unhelpful on why exactly I should be lynched. I mean even Kei has started to slowly look somewhere else than BH and is by now more useful than bugs.... Also this: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote:Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about. This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr." If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote:
EBWOP
and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O you say that as if it was foreseeable. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky) WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on. Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP.
When he could be making more posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it.
ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor,
Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:and stuff like this: On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote:
Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it.
Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town. is some damn fine analysis ( and to Kei it is also one of the reasons why BH is town to me.), austin also mentioned movie mini mafia, which I think was a pretty good educated guess. Add that to the fact that I am still getting lynched as of now and my Kei votes does not seem to get traction, I am switching now. ##unvote: Keirathi
##vote: Wherebugsgo
Rofl at the bolded party. That post came 10 hours after you already said you thought he was town.
But good lord, could you possibly sheep BH any harder? Of course not, because you're scum who just keeps jumping on the popular bandwagon whenever you possibly can.
##Unvote: BlazingHand
##Vote: ShiaoPi
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
@Kei:
I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy.
And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol
Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that?
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On December 04 2012 21:54 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer, ace was entirely unhelpful during d1, and you should care about it since Keirathi and Ace have the same alignment.... I don't agree with Ace being entirely unhelpfull. While I understand they have the alignment, I think holding stuff against Keir that Ace did isn't very wise because he obviously isn't Ace.
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EBWOP: Obviously that isn't always the case. If someone is suuuper scummy D1 and then gets replaced you want to look into the replacement alot. But I don't think that is the case with Ace.
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Sigh, so that's what this was all about.
##Unvote Zealos
##Vote ShiaoPi
On December 04 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 14:11 Xatalos wrote:On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why? I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself. Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier? He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now. As for Lazer: On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?
Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that. Ugh, this game is making my head hurt. There are both towny and scummy traits in almost every filter. What worries me most about Lazermonkey is his lack of presence in the thread (I can't even remember his stance on ANYTHING from the top of my head). But looking at his filter again, I agree with many things he says and I don't get the feeling he's playing scummy WHEN he's playing. Then I looked at DYH's reasoning for voting Lazermonkey and I agree that Lazermonkey is the best Mafia candidate of those who voted DP to be lynched (especially since Lazermonkey's vote was such a weird OMGUS vote out of thin air). I'd really like other people's opinions on Lazermonkey right now. If his lack of presence is the most worrying thing, why Lazer over Zealos, who hasn't done a goddamn thing? Lazer might have OMGUS voted DP, but that's at least SOMETHING. Zealos was a non-factor day 1 and day 2.
I'm not really sure what you're saying. I never said that I'd find Lazermonkey more suspicious than Zealos. It's just the fact that Zealos doesn't seem like a realistic option at this point - I could try to get him lynched still, but I doubt it's happening for today. I'm somewhat equally willing to lynch ShiaoPi, though, so that's fine with me.
I'm also starting to consider Lazermonkey as a townread. His recent posts give me a townish feel and DYH's argument about there having to be a Mafia on the DP bandwagon isn't foolproof by any means. In addition, a ShiaoPi/Lazermonkey scumteam is looking pretty unlikely at this point, but I'm seeing ShiaoPi as Mafia, which means Lazermonkey would be town.
I still can't understand the bandwagon on WBG. His attitude might need improvement, yeah, but... He's looking more and more like a genuinely frustrated townie as the game goes on. Call it intuition, but I can't see a world where Mafia would be so eager to jump into arguments and share their opinion on everything without any apparent fear for their own safety. It just doesn't make any sense for Mafia WBG to be playing like this.
On December 04 2012 21:56 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Answer time: On December 04 2012 09:53 Keirathi wrote:
-snip-
Why are you leaning town on him now? What in your read through changed your mind? Why do you think I should have come to the same conclusion? I am leaning town on him now, because of several things: -letting DYH survive -I was able to see where he was coming from, while reading the filter again, in regards to the way he played it out. -BH's post n1/d2 have all been much more helpful than d1 and also more helpful than you are. Point 1: Fine. Point 2: Huh? Point 3: And here's the kind of thing about you that I have a problem again. This is a bullshit line that doesn't MEAN anything. What about him has been helpful? What about me has been unhelpful? Fucking use some posts to back yourself up. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:On December 04 2012 18:53 Lazermonkey wrote:
I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that.
Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak.
Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak.
Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him.
Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm.
You are totally in gaga-land right? Judging from your post it seems as nothing I say will make you stop this stupid tunnel. Not even looking into Keir at this point is just utterly incomprehensible to me. Take a look at his filter and at Ace's, now first off Ace, he has been entirely unhelpful for d1, just sniping in comments without much reasoning (oh and he was a dick anyway), now look at Keirathis entrance, it totally derails the thread into the discussion at the end of d1 with his insane tunnel on BH, also his unwillingness to do anything besides tunneling is irking me out, but since you are doing the same with me, I guess that did not matter much to you. screw you, done talking with you. Yet more pointless bullshit with nothing to back it up. My unwillingness to do anything but tunnel BH? I've literally commented on more people/things since I joined the game than you have since the start of day 1. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Now moving on: I do not like the way bugs reacted to the pressure at all, he is doing nothing to confront the case, just repeatedly saying that it is bad, while being totally unhelpful on why exactly I should be lynched. I mean even Kei has started to slowly look somewhere else than BH and is by now more useful than bugs.... Also this: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote:Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about. This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr." If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote:
EBWOP
and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O you say that as if it was foreseeable. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky) WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on. Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP.
When he could be making more posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it.
ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor,
Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:and stuff like this: On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote:
Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it.
Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town. is some damn fine analysis ( and to Kei it is also one of the reasons why BH is town to me.), austin also mentioned movie mini mafia, which I think was a pretty good educated guess. Add that to the fact that I am still getting lynched as of now and my Kei votes does not seem to get traction, I am switching now. ##unvote: Keirathi
##vote: Wherebugsgo Rofl at the bolded party. That post came 10 hours after you already said you thought he was town. But good lord, could you possibly sheep BH any harder? Of course not, because you're scum who just keeps jumping on the popular bandwagon whenever you possibly can. ##Unvote: BlazingHand
##Vote: ShiaoPi
I agree with pretty much everything in this post and I'm starting to feel good about Keirathi being town as well. What's good about a ShiaoPi lynch is that (given a red flip) it would make both Lazermonkey and Keirathi pretty likely townies. That would severely limit the possibilities of remaining Mafia players. DYH, I think you should heavily reconsider Lazermonkey and vote for ShiaoPi instead. Your vote on Lazermonkey isn't doing anything now and it didn't look you wanted to lynch WBG either.
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On December 04 2012 22:06 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Kei:
I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy.
And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol
Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that?
So which is it? Am I only tunneling BH, or am I doing more? I can't be both. (Hint: I've got a longer filter than every single person still alive in this game except for BH. Is it all just drivel, or what?)
Also, about finding the posts: I thought you said BH was useless day 1, and only got better n1/d2?
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On the other hand, if ShiaoPi happened to flip town, it would mean some of my reads were seriously wrong. I think I'll have to reread several filters with the mindset that ShiaoPi would actually be town. I'm not seeing it right now, but it's a possibility after all.
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On December 04 2012 22:34 Xatalos wrote:
On the other hand, if ShiaoPi happened to flip town, it would mean some of my reads were seriously wrong. I think I'll have to reread several filters with the mindset that ShiaoPi would actually be town. I'm not seeing it right now, but it's a possibility after all.
Don't worry, he's not going to flip town.
I've played with town ShiaoPi and scum ShiaoPi. This ShiaoPi is the latter.
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On December 04 2012 22:38 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 22:34 Xatalos wrote:
On the other hand, if ShiaoPi happened to flip town, it would mean some of my reads were seriously wrong. I think I'll have to reread several filters with the mindset that ShiaoPi would actually be town. I'm not seeing it right now, but it's a possibility after all. Don't worry, he's not going to flip town. I've played with town ShiaoPi and scum ShiaoPi. This ShiaoPi is the latter.
Heh. Well, I really hope so. I've also played with ShiaoPi before and I must say he was a lot more active and decisive back then. He even defended a (Mafia) player to the very end against every other player and was pretty clear on his reads. Now it feels like he's just giving vague reads and jumping on any realistic bandwagon.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On December 04 2012 22:29 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 22:06 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Kei:
I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy.
And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol
Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that? So which is it? Am I only tunneling BH, or am I doing more? I can't be both. (Hint: I've got a longer filter than every single person still alive in this game except for BH. Is it all just drivel, or what?) Also, about finding the posts: I thought you said BH was useless day 1, and only got better n1/d2?
Stop twisting my words, I said you have now been starting to look at other people, which is one of the reasons I am more willing to off bugs now. You cannot deny the fact that for a good part of d2 you have been in tunnelvisionland. I am just stating the chronology of your play.
Yes, BH's usefulness was limited in d1 but still go reread his filter with the possibility in mind that he is town. But I would assume you arrived at at least a null read on BH by now, which is good for your own sanity methinks.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On December 04 2012 22:51 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 22:38 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 22:34 Xatalos wrote:
On the other hand, if ShiaoPi happened to flip town, it would mean some of my reads were seriously wrong. I think I'll have to reread several filters with the mindset that ShiaoPi would actually be town. I'm not seeing it right now, but it's a possibility after all. Don't worry, he's not going to flip town. I've played with town ShiaoPi and scum ShiaoPi. This ShiaoPi is the latter. Heh. Well, I really hope so. I've also played with ShiaoPi before and I must say he was a lot more active and decisive back then. He even defended a (Mafia) player to the very end against every other player and was pretty clear on his reads. Now it feels like he's just giving vague reads and jumping on any realistic bandwagon.
That game was a long time ago and I was also in a different timezone, much more fitting for playing with EU/NA. Just saying you should not take that game as a basis for meta, go for more recent games such as Liquid City or LVI and LVII
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On December 04 2012 22:52 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 22:29 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 22:06 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Kei:
I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy.
And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol
Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that? So which is it? Am I only tunneling BH, or am I doing more? I can't be both. (Hint: I've got a longer filter than every single person still alive in this game except for BH. Is it all just drivel, or what?) Also, about finding the posts: I thought you said BH was useless day 1, and only got better n1/d2? Stop twisting my words, I said you have now been starting to look at other people, which is one of the reasons I am more willing to off bugs now. You cannot deny the fact that for a good part of d2 you have been in tunnelvisionland. I am just stating the chronology of your play. Yes, BH's usefulness was limited in d1 but still go reread his filter with the possibility in mind that he is town. But I would assume you arrived at at least a null read on BH by now, which is good for your own sanity methinks.
What constitutes a "good part of d2"?
I made my meta case on him ~2 hours before the deadline, then pushed it for ~8 hours after the deadline, then dropped it. That's a pretty small portion of the day, IMO.
I may have had a lot of posts in dialog with BH during that time, but it wasn't really that much time.
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