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EBWOP: Sorry, I fucked that up. His post in the wrong tab.
On December 04 2012 09:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Kei:
I am seemingly going along with the flow since nobody is online/willing to discuss stuff when I am in the thread....
It is hard to be around for discussion when nobody else is.
I don't care that you aren't around for discussion. How is that even relevant to what I said about you?
You've just sheeped onto the popular opinion every time you've popped into the thread with little-to-no reasoning.
For example, what you said about BH:
On December 04 2012 00:24 ShiaoPi wrote:
*snip*
BH:
Fuck what I said, I am leaning town on him now.
*snip*
Now on to the good stuff: Keirathi
Obviously my changed read on BH is important for a red kei. but let's start from looking at ace:
-He has been dickish, trolly and unhelpful, not exactly a scumtell but it adds to the entire picture.
-What makes me wonder is especially the parts in his filter with "shiao/debears/DYH"-interaction and "shiao/VE/DP"-interaction. I do not remember having thoroughly interacted much with DYH, there were some questions from debears which I answered, also I did not interact with VE/DP in a remarkable kind of way. So I have no clue where he got this from, conclusions he does not read the thread thoroughly and makes shit up as he goes to appear contributing.
Moving on to Kei now,
While I initially agreed with a lot of his points against BH, I was also in the game from the beginning. Now with a clear reread I do not read BH as scummy anymore, from someone who replaces in I would expect him to have a clear mindset as well and I believe Keirathi to be a good enough player to be able to come to the same conclusion as I did. The entire amount of tunneling onto BH as an "easy" target seems to me like an attempt to just derail the entire thread into bascially the same discussion we had at the end of d1. Also the complete disregard for anything else, why? Cuz scum!
Why are you leaning town on him now? What in your read through changed your mind? Why do you think I should have come to the same conclusion?
That's what I'm talking about when I say you just flow with the popular opinion at the time.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
sup bros
Well I'll check out this case on ShiaoPi. I have a townread on him but now that he's posted etc I'll see what's up. I'll also take some time to address your concerns about Keirathi.
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Keirathi, I want to kill because he's on my list.
Obviously...
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset.
I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so.
I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch.
The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling.
On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture.
pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
But again ShiaoPi not a good lynch as long as Keirathi is alive imo
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On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is!
more bad meta usage.
gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
1) the fact that ShiaoPi's thoughts on Xatalos are inconsistent isn't meta
2) the fact that ShiaoPi voted Keirathi, who is scum, isn't meta
3) the fact that Keirathi is still refusing to contribute isn't meta
I know exactly what I am talking about.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
In fact, if you're saying that when I say "ShiaoPi as town is logically consistent" is a bad meta case, then you are profoundly wrong.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
actually, given that my post mostly wasn't about meta, I'm wondering if you actually read it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this:
On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about.
This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also.
On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr." If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote:
EBWOP
and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O you say that as if it was foreseeable.
On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum.
On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier.
On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky)
WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this:
On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on.
On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP.
When he could be making more posts like this:
On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it.
ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor,
Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:and stuff like this: On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote:
Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it.
Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then?
which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Actually you know what yeah this is more out of character even than Keirathi's horrible tunnell-fest of me. I expect more out of WBG. I expect at least a pretense of hunting scum and pressuring people and interacting with the thread. His attempts to turn this thread into a horrible hate-fest have stopped us from achieving our basic goals, and people are simply afraid to attack him because he's WBG. No longer!
Keirathi is still probably scum, and I still don't like ShiaoPi, but the WBG we have here is playing with scum motives and pushing his scum agenda.
##unvote
##vote WBG
time to stop him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Oh yeah and he clearly didn't read my post about ShiaoPi and Keirathi, he just wanted to slap it down and lay on the insults. This isn't how you play mafia, this isn't how you hunt scum.
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Considering. I've been wavering on WBG, but for different reasons. Not sure if I want to lynch him today or no.
My worries about him actually come from the spat he had with marv N1. We know marv was town. We know marv was the N1 kill. Heck, MARV should have known he'd be the N1 kill, because he knew his claim was true.
Look at his N1. He may have expected a doc, but didn't say anything like that. He was mostly silent. Porque? Porque does a good scumhunter who is town NOT put down a lot of N1 thoughts?
* DRAMATIC NOISE * BECAUSE OF WBG. From the very start of the night, marv and WBG got into their little shitfest. I know I've seen both get frustrated/pissy/whatever before, but...it's still curious to me because of - Movie Star Mini Mafia.
- WBG hosted Movie Star
- Marv played in Movie Star
- One of the defining bits of movie star was a MASSIVE shitfight between VE and marv
- Both were town, and both were useless for a good chunk of a cycle because they just kept sniping at each other
- WBG knows that marvel can get thrown off track if you just keep yelling at him
If I were scum in this game, and I knew marv's claim was legit, and was going to make him the N1 kill...I'd do my best to neutralize any scum-hunting he was going to contribute, because we're going to know he's town and can take it as truth.
WBG did a nice job of neutralizing Marv's scumhunting, while knowing that marv can react unproductively to constant sniping.
To some extent, this may just be a narrative that I like, but WBG is one of the players that I wouldn't put it past. I'm not sure how his stubbornness and possible ego weigh out against his knowledge that he could mess with Marv's head like that.
Keirathi, I assume you hate this post, sorry. It both follows up a target that's already being discussed AND doesn't vote. I secretly want to play BH and just post cases about all sorts of uninvolved people to try and stir crap up, but I don't have the time right now.
So uninvolved people...pretend there are a bunch of cases posted on you. OH NO. BETTER POST AND TRY TO LOOK TOWNIE.
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WBG is a vet; he knows what kind of posting is beneficial for town and what is detrimental.
Making these terrible posts is a conscious decision. There is no reason for him, a vet, to post like that as town.
So, for actively hurting the town environment while fully aware of his actions, I will ##Vote: WBG.
Also, WBG, I challenge you. I challenge you to either refute each of BH's points in his case or to admit to purposefully being detrimental to town.
I challenge you to not say something useless like
On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on.
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Omg I thought this would blow over, but I see it's getting momentum. I'll post my thoughts when I wake up.
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I would say my top lynch candidates for today would be Lazer or Keirathi/WBG.
I think my vote analysis of Lazer is sound, and is enough to make him a great lynch, which is why I haven't really dug into him. Clearly the rest of you don't agree, and would prefer a wall of text case -_-.
Keirathi inherited my scum read on Ace, tunneled BH like crazy in the face of a good reason to believe BH town, and had weak views elsewhere when pressed.
I agree that WBG has been detrimental to town and I wouldn't be surprised if he did argue with marv to keep marv occupied.
I still have to vote with my strongest read, and that is Lazer.
##Vote Lazermonkey
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LOL and the sheep come out.
Keep coming out fuckers, I dare you.
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I've been "detrimental to town". When I could have ripped dabears a new asshole for incessantly tunneling me.
Dabears attacks me for not being aggressive enough to him. And yet I'm being attacked for being too aggressive.
Blazinghand says some retarded shit about Shiaopi which has almost no relevance to anything whatsoever, and I'm the one being accused of being detrimental to town.
Marvellosity and BH tunnel an obvious townie and get him lynched, I try to stop it, and I'm accused of having been detrimental to town on d1. Guess what, assholes? I was the only one (besides Ace) who was right about DP!
Get it through your heads that you're all playing like absolute noobs and that the reason I get pissed is because you're all too busy eating your own shit to realize that the scum are coasting along, not giving a fuck because the town is too incompetent to catch them.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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(Host: my vote is for ShiaoPi, not for Zealos...)
I don't really like the way how WBG dodges questions and creates spam, making the thread less constructive. Still, I just can't see him as Mafia. He's been one of the most active players - and no, I don't mean just post count, I mean he's actively engaging with everything that's happening in the thread. Many of his posts are of no content, but mostly he has insight into whatever he says, and he comments on a lot of things - compare that to Keirathi for example, who doesn't apparently want to share his insight on almost anything. Or even more so to the players who have been trying to hide from attention all game. DYH also had some good points about WBG. And last but not the least, I just don't personally see WBG being Mafia. He appears much more genuinely frustrated and careless than pressured or scared whenever he rants. This all leads me to believe it would be idiotic to lynch WBG. I'm amazed how so many people actually want to lynch him at the moment.
Keirathi, I'm still on the fence about you. Please share your top lynch candidates and your reasons for those. And share your insight into more topics as well. A part of my read on ShiaoPi also depends on you, since I doubt he would have went after his teammate when he was pressured to make a case.
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EPT
