EPTChrono Trigger Mafia - Page 5
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 01 2012 10:34 Acrofales wrote: @SnB I know we have other stuff on our mind right now, but your defense of Phagga is weird. CJ didn't claim Drazerk after the vote and when Phagga changed his mind. He claimed well before. That was NOT the reason for Phagga to change his mind. That said, there were 2 entire cycles (3 if you count when Phagga placed his vote, rather than when he took it off to sheep onto Sandro) between Phagga having a scum read on Drazerk, and Phagga stating his HP to enable Drazerk's ability. That is 96 hours and on estimate 100 pages of thread. Seems like enough time for Phagga to have changed his mind. my bad, i didnt actually look it up, i just assumed. i still disagree with hapa's interpretation of phagga's day 1 behavior and with his conclusion that phagga is scum, and based on the specific (plentiful yet restricted) way hapa's been interacting with the thread, plus my unchanged impressions of his early-game play, i still think he's scum | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 02 2012 00:58 syllogism wrote: Well he claimed using an ability on you and I've an idea what it might have done Strongandbig you might as well claim what it was I increase my target's max hp by 300 and damage them by 250. This ability can fail under certain conditions. On oatsmaster it succeeded. I also claim the 1 hp damage on drazerk, i have a troll ability with 99% chance to do 1 damage and 1% chance to reduce target to 1hp. also voting grab sword and oatsmaster, seems the most reasonable thing atm | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 02 2012 02:50 syllogism wrote: That ability makes no sense and using it makes even less sense. Why did you think using that on Oats was a good idea? It gives +50 net hp and makes them benefit more from other peoples' heals. It doesn't count as a heal itself though, it just raises the max hp without removing any of the damage they've taken or whatever a heal technically counts as. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
acro: why? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 02 2012 03:46 syllogism wrote: Where did you go S&B? What is the condition for your ability to be usable? dota the condition is that i have to know their rolename. it seems counterintuitive to me too to have an ability that rewards town roleclaiming, so i've been thinking it's a trap or there's some kind of scum claim-based ability as well but who knows | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 02 2012 18:34 syllogism wrote: No, risk recruited dieno last cycle and he isn't playing anymore. Presumably he will recruit someone new this cycle. No point discussing things in the QT instead of the thread and there isn't anything to discuss anyway. Hapa and S&B can you two full claim? S&B feels more like a third party to me, but there seem to be so many of those already. If I have to, and it seems like I have to. Honestly, I think my ability is at least partially in the game as a trap for town - we're supposed to all be like "woah we have a pro-town claim-based power let's have vulnerable townies roleclaim," and I think that would make us vulnerable to scum. So I don't like the idea of a mass roleclaim, or at least not of a mass role-name-claim. I am [blue]Nu[/bold]. My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability. When I use it I have to target a player and PM greymist their rolename, if im right the ability works, if im not then it fails and i can't use it again the next night. My other ability is Headbutt, which works like I mentioned above (99% chance 1 damage, 1% chance bring target to 1 life). All life begins and ends with me, according to my role pm. My night actions each night:
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 02 2012 21:35 Acrofales wrote: Yeah, I don't see the mafia in Djodref. I will go through his filter again, but I got town last time I checked. I also did some filter diving on SnB. Anybody who says they have a town read based on meta... I don't see it. If I were to compare this to SSM then sure, however I looked over WLIIA and SnB's scumgame has improved a lot since then. I don't find him coming off "more carefree" now than he did there. That said, I don't see where he is pushing a scu agenda this game. He didn't push Sandro's vote D1. He did like a lynch on Sandro early and he has never wanted to be in a party insofar as I can tell. If he is scum, he has played very carefully. However, SnB's most convincing case in WLIIA is on Mementoss, his scumbuddy. So that is not particularly conclusive either. That leaves just the ability. I really want to know what SnB did on the missing nights: N2 and N5. Dieno's flip also indicates that his math is correct. If we subtract 250 damage from N1 and add a 50 HP heal instead, we are left with 145+475 < 750, so he shouldn't have died N4 and need the "mysterious player" to save him from death. i have no good explanation for this, only speculation. however given that my ability is basically a stealth heal, it seems very likely that mafia has similar stealth damage abilities that either work by reducing max hp, canceling healing, or some other mechanism i haven't thought of yet. a poisoner ability is also possible, where someone would die after a delay but wouldn't take damage, so dieno could have been protected from death without being at 1hp. it does seem weird that mafia would use this on frog but maybe they were more concerned with taking him out before he could fix masamune than they were with killing good "traditional mafia" players like syllogism. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote: Did it ever occur to you to use it on Drazerk? Did it ever occur to you to use your role as a role check? I kind of want to believe you because I don't understand why mafia chose to shoot frog on d1 and then ignored him for 2 days for no apparent reason. It seems likely to me that they shot marvel+dienosore d1, but didn't have enough KP to inflict 665 damage on those two and that they believed some third party also targeted dienosore. i really didn't think of using it as an investigative role, because i wasn't sure what it would gain us to know whether someone was lying about their role name or not. drazerk claimed his role name was "chef" or that he was "a chef" or something like that at first - if i tried to use my ability on him with that, it would fail even if his real role name was "master of the kitchens". plus, i didn't think role name would match up with alignment. promethelax claimed 'zeal plant woman' pretty early on, which i thought was some kind of humanoid plant monster (although it apparently refers to a specific character, i looked it up), and 'nu' (my rolename) are apparently present in the game both as enemies and as friendly third party characters at different time periods. so I thought that by far the best use of my role was to target the "most townie person who roleclaimed" and use my ability to heal them the little bit of hp and (way more importantly, imo) raise the ceiling for how much they could benefit from being healed by other town players. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote: [snip] It seems likely to me that they shot marvel+dienosore d1, but didn't have enough KP to inflict 665 damage on those two and that they believed some third party also targeted dienosore. that's actually really interesting, i never thought that my ability could be used to confuse mafia about where third party damage is going - maybe they thought i was some kind of anti-town serial killer, or that i was magus and was trying to kill of frog before he got masamune, so they could leave him to me and not keep focus firing him | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
post above the one you quoted i already claimed not sending in an action night two, anyway. | ||
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strongandbig
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On December 03 2012 00:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Just saying, I didnt get a heal the whole game  also syllo, you should totes claim so you can get the benefit of the 250 visible damage and the 300 invisible raise on your hp i disagree, we have no idea what mafia can do with a name claim but i bet they can do something | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:00 syllogism wrote: Oh I forgot about the theory of dienosore reflecting some action on d2, perhaps you targeted him again on n2 but it didn't work and that's why you couldn't use it on day 3. That would also explain why you targeted Oats on n3 rather than frog again. Then you got hit by Oats 100 damage and deemed it safer to target prom. This doesn't make you mafia, but I'm just attempting to come up reasons as to why mafia chose their targets as they did. once i use the ability on a player successfully i can't target that player again | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:01 Acrofales wrote: Also, what made you think that "raising a player's max hp" raised their CURRENT HP? You could raise my max HP out the wazzoo, but unless I also get a heal for a wazzoo amount, it is pointless. Why would your ability be stated in such a weird manner if what it ended up doing was to raise max HP by 300 and current HP by 50? um i've been assuming that the way it's calculated is "current hp = max hp - damage" and that "max hp" and "damage" are the two numbers that the hosts keep track of on their spreadsheet. if my ability doesn't work that way then it's seriously terrible actually, maybe that would make sense as a town ability if the hosts thought there was sure to be a small group of confirmed or semi-confirmed townies who we would focus fire healing on? i still think that would be terrible though, i never even really considered it. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:08 syllogism wrote: Okay so you haven't even asked the host about it? You just assumed? yeah i was pretty busy in england at first and by the time i got back and had more reliable internet i guess i was just rolling with it anyway i gtg to work now i'll check in on the thread in a couple hours | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 01:21 Acrofales wrote: Okay, there is NO way you just assume something as important as that unless you just made that shit up on the spot. SnB is a pretty careful and meticulous player. That is not the kind of thing he just overlooks. Also, with Spekkio being scum, who knows what a Nu is. It is so far the ONLY character claimed that you actually have to fight against in the game.. except for risk.nuke and I completely mistrust risk.nuke too. You have to remember I really wasn't paying much attention at all. Also, I don't always play careful and meticulous. I guess you were not following Mario Mini Mafia at all. Anyway, I sent a PM to greymist asking him how my role works. But it really makes very little sense for it to work the other way, so I'm pretty sure it does the healing thing. On December 03 2012 01:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Wtf is this? You dont think its a town ability already? I had been assuming it worked the first way, that makes perfect sense to me. If it works the second way, I think it's a really weird ability for a townie to have. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
That's pretty unfortunate. I guess instead of a protective role I have some kind of weird gimpy vig shot. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote: SnB Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says: (1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable. But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp. (2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles. The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled. Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics. The party election D1 Hapahauli (Maybe toad) Phagga There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved. I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look. i already said that i clarified my ability with greymist, it raises someone's max health but does damage to their current health, and raising max health doesn't change current health. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 03 2012 06:35 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah, in cycle 6 you asked, after prompting by others. yeah that's right it's stupid that it works the way it does Like I said, i was not paying very much attention right at the start of the game, and after that I just rolled with it. | ||
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