Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 343

On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote:


Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself.

Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting.

On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote:
My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now.

However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction.

People who are also red in my list:

- Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet.
- BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned

Other people I want to look into/know more about:

- Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations
- Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up.

##Vote CaveJohnson

On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote:
Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour.

also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment.

On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote:



You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game.

But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one.

Ah, finally you make a case!


Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation.



Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions.

On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote:


1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK.

Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC.

Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive.

2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum.

Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.

The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative.

3. I'm running out of time I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline.

Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote.

On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote:


He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand).

Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me.

On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote:


That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that?

On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote:
@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.

Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK.

On December 04 2012 01:33 phagga wrote:
z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this.
Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum.

risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa.
@Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle?

My scum reads are snb and GK.

Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice.

@Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night.

On December 04 2012 17:29 phagga wrote:
Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically.

On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote:
About risk.nuke

For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier.

However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch.

About goodkarma:

I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again.

About the Epoch:

I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to.

##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma
##Lynch: risk.nuke
##Epoch: Middle Ages

And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow.

On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote:
Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote.

##Unvote
##Vote Sandroba

***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me***
Right before deadline. Hasn't read, sidesteps talking about toad. Is okay lynching Sandroba, but hasn't mentioned Sandroba as scum before.

On November 29 2012 09:17 phagga wrote:
##Vote Toadesstern
He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him

***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me***

He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him

On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote:
About risk.nuke

For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier.

However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch.

About goodkarma:

I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again.

About the Epoch:

I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to.

##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma
##Lynch: risk.nuke
##Epoch: Middle Ages

And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow.

On December 08 2012 11:51 austinmcc wrote:
Okay. I've taken the time to read over Phagga's filter. This is a bit bass-ackwards, because I'm already looking at him to be the scum in our unclaimed group, and so reading his early game is shaded by that.

But what I get from his filter is...that he thinks goodkarma is scum. Sometimes. Most times. For a little while no, then yes again, and now no. Other than that...I pick up a couple things that should be pointed out.


(1) Phagga wants scumhunting. He does not want townhunting. + Show Spoiler +. It's not saying much, but at least it's a strong stance - hunt scum good. Don't hunt scum bad.

Phagga proceeds to spend the game...not doing much scumhunting. Acro picked up on this early, but at least within Phagga's filter I don't see much of him responding to this line of questioning being continued.

(2) A list of phagga's scum reads (I'm going to leave out a bunch of links, but there are very few "x is scum" and a tremendous amount of wishywashy "x might be scum, might not be scum, just saying' " posts):

Drazerk, GK (but hasn't gone through filter), BioSC (based on someone else's comment it seems) - + Show Spoiler +
Then GK definitely, after reading filter.
Then GK isn't scum - + Show Spoiler +
Then GK still not scum, but phagga angry with him - + Show Spoiler +
Back to GK being scum, along with hopeless1der - + Show Spoiler +
He gets called out for not following-up Drazerk read, responds - + Show Spoiler +
Says risk "sounds like scum," but nothing more - + Show Spoiler +
Now strongandbig scum based on syllo's tracking - + Show Spoiler +
risk sounds like scum? So...scum, right? Nope. - + Show Spoiler +
First mention of VE in a while - + Show Spoiler +
risk scum for inactivity, 1:30 til deadline - + Show Spoiler +


(3) His votes on confirmed scum
Sandroba - + Show Spoiler +
Toad - + Show Spoiler +
Did not vote snb
risk.nuke - + Show Spoiler +

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My overall takeaway is that for someone who D1 was guns blazing "Don't townhunt, gotta scumhunt," phagga has not made good on that. In some odd ways.

(1) His scumreads pop in and out of nowhere. Drazerk was scum, then he wasn't. No update, no nothing, and more or less no discussion of Drazerk for the rest of the game. GK is scum, not scum, scum. Never gives a scumread on Sandroba, just agrees and drops a vote. Never gives a scumread OR MENTIONS Toad, drops the vote. Never drops a scumread on snb. Drops a scumread on risk during the last day, prior to that one of phagga's only interactions with risk was to say a post of risk's sounded scummy but risk was town. Which is fine, that happens. But it's curious when it's basically the limit of your interaction with confirmed scum.

Again, I'm coming for a point of thinking he's the scum in the group, but the malleability of his scumreads lets him do whatever he wants. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked.

(2) His votes on scum as a whole lack reasoning and are almost always 11th hour.
Sandroba vote is 7 minutes before deadline, and he says he hasn't read everything, seems to just be jumping on board.
Toad vote is just a toad vote, nothing more, but then he backs off later in the day, worried about a pardoner.
No vote on snb
risk.nuke vote is 1:30 until deadline, after he was townie on risk earlier

I secretly like the pardoner stuff, because I loves me some paranoia, but...his votes ALWAYS limp in on scum, bar Toad who was checked. They limp in right at deadline. There's rarely a mention of the suspect before the vote, and in risk's case, the mention was that he "sounded like scum" but was townie.

So, for now : ##vote phagga

We have unexplained damage. He fits the do-er of that damage better than others for me.
We have very little scumhunting.
We have very odd interactions with confirmed scum, and...curious votes.

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One thing I want to bring up though is the waiting is odd. He posts on GK all day every day, and waits to vote scum until last-minute. But he doesn't...he's not trying to save them much. Apart from risk, he's not going around calling the others townie (He had a weird spat with someone who called snb scum, saying we didn't know snb scum, but ... that whole exchange was funky and I left it out). That's the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why is he waiting until last minute but not trying to save these guys. He can't be waiting on anyone else, so I don't get the delay and the odd votes.


THAT Oatsmaster, is more like a wall of text.