If not, /in
I'd love to learn to play this game.
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
yamato77
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If not, /in I'd love to learn to play this game. | ||
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And DarthPunk, I wouldn't come to this forum if I didn't want to become one of the better players. The way I see it, attempting to emulate the style of a player that I, and others, see as a good player should be an effective way to learn about the game. My limited successes, and inevitable failures in this endeavor will be informative whether other people think I ultimately play like marv or not. | ||
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"XXX is SCUM! His opening post proves it!" | ||
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On November 26 2012 06:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yes, SDM, I know you pointed this out, but I have to say something. Show nested quote + On November 26 2012 05:34 yamato77 wrote: Mr. Cheesecake is playing without contributing. He's written a lot, but most of it is absolutely useless to a town looking for scum. His policy discussion and talk about other mafia games he's played doesn't help hunt for other players, it seems like more of a defense for himself. Then he calls out two players, myself and Helo, trying to draw attention away from himself. None of this reads town to me, at all. I really do NOT like this kind of post from Yamato. First, he is completely hypocritical because he hasn't contributed two cents to the thread. Secondly, he is answering a question that isn't addressed to him. He randomly pops up when I'm being pressured to cast aspersions on me. Where was he before this? What is his motivation or making such a cavalier, random post? He is entitled to his opinion, but his convenient timing and content reads inherently scummy to me. My motivation is to give my read on someone who is playing suspiciously since his first post. Where was I before that? Asleep. A bunch of your argument to me is simply fallacy. Me being hypocritical (whether true or not) has nothing to do with your contributions to the thread. My timing and content is scummy? Of course I want to voice my opinion on someone who is being cast into the spotlight. What am I supposed to do? Ignore it? You didn't even answer my accusations, you just spun around and attacked me. At least SDM's post against mine had some quality. On November 26 2012 06:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I don't like this reaction. Sure, you can argue he hasn't contributed much, but at least he's been somewhat enganged in the thread unlike a lot of others. Aside from that, the reason he talked about his old games was because I asked him, him answering is appreciated. Him calling out you and Helo can easily have town motivations. Obviously town wants to call out what he considers suspicious bahaviour. You end up saying nothing reads town, but the more important question is: does it read scum, and why? Other than that your one-liners are really not contributing much and kind of stay-under-the-radar like. FOS Yamato I don't think my posting at the beginning should be taken as alignment indicative. It was prodding, mostly. I'm on the fence about Mr. Cheesecake. His posting is still mostly defending himself, and attacking two players who posted early, me and Helo. That kind of behavior doesn't really indicate alignment, but if he keeps coming after me with posts that don't even address my concerns about him, I'm going to vote for him. Most of what I've posted so far has been to get a reaction, and it has worked. How people answer questions and accusations are definitely tells. | ||
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SDM's post was "a little jab"? Dude voted for you. If I'm interested in his reasons, which I was, and I have my own reasons, which I did, I would voice them. Again, am I supposed to just stay silent and let you lynch me for saying nothing? I definitely said I didn't like your topics of discussion in my first few posts. They are fluff, which I don't care for. I didn't react to them because that is adding to the fluff. If that is how people think we should start threads, I disagree. It doesn't provide any information at all. What Oats did was more productive, in my opinion, but hardly alignment indicative. Also, I'm definitely interested to see if SDM still thinks my play is scummy after these two posts. And how about the rest of you lurkers? Do I look scummy to you? | ||
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I appreciate your input on me. I'll admit, I had bad feelings about Cheesecake before I posted that comment, which I intentionally decided not to post until other people came in. Perhaps now that makes me look like I'm jumping on a wagon, but I did mention very early on in the thread that I didn't like Cheesecake's topics of discussion. | ||
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CC's vote on me looks like scum trying to deflect attention onto a player receiving negative heat. Also, it would eliminate someone he sees as a threat, if he was scum, in that I haven't liked his play since the start of the game. I'm tempted to vote Cheesecake with you, if your vote is actually serious. However, if I get lynched today, I would 100% go after CC and SDM tomorrow because of the way they have parked their votes on me. | ||
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That being said, I completely understand SDM's vote to me, but I have not changed my opinion on CC. | ||
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On November 25 2012 14:53 yamato77 wrote: I don't really care for your topics of discussion, but that's about it. Perhaps I should have explained then, but I meant that I didn't like the way he entered the thread. His little questionnaire was really, really pointless. It seemed to me at the time something that a mafia player might do to appear to be "starting discussion" without putting anything of real value in the thread. Thus, I limited my posting intentionally as to not really do anything except react to other people and try to get them to give information. Aqua was willing; I asked him his thoughts on me and Cheesecake and he gave them, without any questions. It was then that Cheesecake asked me my opinion of him, and I gave the aforementioned answer. Then he asked me what I thought the discussion should be about, and I told him, I thought us (Aqua and I) talking about whether he was acting suspicious was fine. I called out Oats for calling him scum, which I was not ready to do without more solid evidence, and have not done so yet. My next post received a lot of heat. I posted my ill-timed opinion of Mr. Cheesecake. I was being honest. Nothing looked like worthwhile contribution up to that point, to me. It still doesn't. He says he has contributed, but I don't see anything except a poor read on Helos he backed away from, continually attacking me for voicing my opinion of him, and defending himself. He has posted no other reads on anyone else. I keep saying these same things and they are still true. I want to know what people think of me because I don't want to be surprised by more votes on me like I was with SDM's. I didn't like his voting of me because I didn't think people would honestly give a scum read on me based on my posting up to that point. I suppose I was wrong, which is why I've since become much more forthcoming with my thoughts and motivations. As far as reads on other people. Kickstarter's sheer aggression when defending Cheesecake against Oats is astounding. He uses vulgar language more than once and seems wholly preoccupied with Oats' vote being on CC. He doesn't even care if other people think Oats is scum necessarily, so why did he vote for him? The play doesn't really make sense because all he did was cause a whole lot of uproar over a play that no one else saw as scummy. If anything, THAT seems like a scum play. That being said, Oats is definitely not a town read. None of his posting is particularly forthcoming about his actual motivation. His vote on CC, while initially seeming like a pressure vote, hasn't been justified properly. SDM and Aqua are probably town. They have posted the most real content up to this point and their arguments have been clearly motivated. Helo is a less troll version of Oats. None of his play is backed with clear motivation, but it is not inherently scummy either. If Jacob misspells my name one more time I will lynch him. In seriousness, I think he has posted a lot of fluff and rehashed arguments. I am interested in who he reads as blue, though. I have a blue read too. Munk-E is seriously lackluster. I would vote for him over CC if I made a choice right now. I don't like CC's play but I don't like how little Munk has contributed and how long he has lurked. So to rank my reads from scummiest to least it would go: Munk-E Cheesecake Kickstarter (area of ambiguity) Jacob Helo Oats (/end area of ambiguity) SDM Aqua Me | ||
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What do you think about me? What about Munk-E? Any reads other than Oats? | ||
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If he posts anything useful at all in the few hours I am sleeping after this post, I will change it, because I really don't like lynching people just because they lurk. However, right now, I have to place a vote just in case I oversleep drastically and he really is the best candidate. CC and kick still on my scumdar. Jacob, Helo, and Oats are not far from it, either. | ||
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I really don't like how Jacob and Munk have voted on me after it became apparent that Munk was going to be lynched if mafia didn't bus someone else. Could definitely be a mafia tactic if Munk was indeed mafia. Munk's post on me said literally nothing anyone else hasn't said. He quoted me a bunch and called it all "defending myself" when a ton of it gave reads on players. I'm telling you guys all this because I feel a mislynch of me is definitely possible D1 and you will need serious direction D2. Kick doesn't seem that scummy anymore. I can see town kick doing what he did. I just hope he contributes more D2 than going after Oats. Top scumreads are Munk, CC, Jacob. Jacob has literally not posted any reads that weren't just sheeping other people, and tons of his posts thus far were largely or completely fluff. CC is attacking me for the same thing, but my posts have lately been full of my complete thoughts and motivations. CC could be tunneling me because I was tunneling him, but the guy hasn't got off my vote or said anything else of real value THE WHOLE GAME. Munk comes in and votes for me, and then leaves. Easy mafia cop out play. Believe me or not. You guys can make a play D1 against mafia bussing me or you can make decisions day 2 after my mislynch. | ||
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Aqua's case against kick was half-decent at the time because kick's reaction to Oats voting you was strange. Town read. Oats is playing bad either way. Not convincing enough for me to vote him. Null read, leaning scum. Pretty sure I've said all this. | ||
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If I read you as scum, then Oats is automatically less so because I highly doubt scum would do this to their partner day 1. But the possibility is that he is scum and you are not. Helo hasn't exactly done anything particularly scummy even if Munk is town. He called out a lurker. A safe play, but not alignment indicative. I don't even know why I type this. You aren't going to take anything I say seriously. You have tunneled me SO HARD this game. It's absurd. I'm frustrated because of futility in posting anything in response to you because everyone twists it into "defending myself" when I do things like this. It creates unproductive discussion about my intentions. Obviously I know they are town, but no one else believes me because YOU have managed to throw enough doubt on my alignment to make people see it as scum. | ||
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On November 27 2012 07:08 Kickstart wrote: Well I have to get ready to leave for class and once I am gone I won't be here until after the lynch. With that, it looks like the person being lynched right now is Yamato, so I would like to direct a question to him. Yamato, if this is going to be a mys-lynch can you provide us with your top scumreads? Who is the scummiest to you and who do you think we should be getting rid of? Set us up for a good day 2 if you are town. I will be here a bit longer and will read and comment if I need to so there is still time to convince me. I already did this. Read my filter. It really seems like you haven't honestly read my filter the whole game, based on your reads on me. Get to it. | ||
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Jacob, equally, has contributed nothing of real value. If he's off playing a video game like he claims (terrible cop-out), then perhaps you guys need to pressure him into making reads that aren't complete fluff like posting a whole paragraph deciphering if I slept the right amount of time in his opinion. His vote on me seems contrived, as does Munk-E's, because neither one cast serious suspicion on me before placing their vote. MUNK-E IS SCUM. He has lurked the whole game for no good reason. His two serious posts are mostly content-less reasons to sheep his vote on a player already under heat. I see absolutely zero town motivation in his actions at this point. If I get lynched, your day 2 should be DESTROYING him for how terrible he is playing. | ||
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On November 27 2012 07:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2012 07:10 yamato77 wrote: Aqua has given thoughts on other topics besides kick. If I read you as scum, then Oats is automatically less so because I highly doubt scum would do this to their partner day 1. But the possibility is that he is scum and you are not. Helo hasn't exactly done anything particularly scummy even if Munk is town. He called out a lurker. A safe play, but not alignment indicative. I don't even know why I type this. You aren't going to take anything I say seriously. You have tunneled me SO HARD this game. It's absurd. I'm frustrated because of futility in posting anything in response to you because everyone twists it into "defending myself" when I do things like this. It creates unproductive discussion about my intentions. Obviously I know they are town, but no one else believes me because YOU have managed to throw enough doubt on my alignment to make people see it as scum. ?????????? How do you "Obviously know" people are town ?????????????? I know my motivations are town. Not people. Read better. | ||
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On November 27 2012 08:27 JacobStrangelove wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2012 07:19 yamato77 wrote: Jacob, equally, has contributed nothing of real value. If he's off playing a video game like he claims (terrible cop-out), then perhaps you guys need to pressure him into making reads that aren't complete fluff like posting a whole paragraph deciphering if I slept the right amount of time in his opinion. His vote on me seems contrived, as does Munk-E's, because neither one cast serious suspicion on me before placing their vote. Wrong I had you under serious suspicion for years before that vote. Anyway just woke up and am reading the thread. If your "serious suspicion" is the post I referenced where the entire content is saying you believe me when I say I was sleeping, then it wasn't serious at all, in my opinion. Give a read on someone that isn't completely terrible. | ||
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People have attacked me this game from literally every angle but the one-liner thing that you posted is seriously a terrible argument. It also wasn't original at all. other than that, I don't think you've really cast your own suspicions on my play. | ||
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Good, because I want to be the FIRST to point out that his decision making is TERRIBLE from a town standpoint. First, we'll take his major line of reasoning this game seriously and assume he actually thinks I am scum (lolk). Then these three posts make no sense at all. On November 27 2012 07:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2012 07:10 yamato77 wrote: Aqua has given thoughts on other topics besides kick. If I read you as scum, then Oats is automatically less so because I highly doubt scum would do this to their partner day 1. But the possibility is that he is scum and you are not. Helo hasn't exactly done anything particularly scummy even if Munk is town. He called out a lurker. A safe play, but not alignment indicative. I don't even know why I type this. You aren't going to take anything I say seriously. You have tunneled me SO HARD this game. It's absurd. I'm frustrated because of futility in posting anything in response to you because everyone twists it into "defending myself" when I do things like this. It creates unproductive discussion about my intentions. Obviously I know they are town, but no one else believes me because YOU have managed to throw enough doubt on my alignment to make people see it as scum. ?????????? How do you "Obviously know" people are town ?????????????? On November 27 2012 07:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: Kickstart Not sure if scumtrapped, or didn't read yamato's post before commenting. On November 27 2012 07:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hm, pretty confused right now. Thought a scum yamato would be all over that scumtrap claim on Kick. Instead he does the town thing and actually questions if it's a scumtrap. Idk if Kick jumped on it because he just wanted more evidence for a mislynch or genuinely misread it. The fallacy of the evening, children. ##Unvote Might just have to go with Munk. Not a clue right now. People be sheeping onto my Yamato case hardcore. Trying to sniff out what's going on here... it's a smelly smell that smells.... smelly. Was that honestly his plan to prove I was scum? Only a scum yamato would follow a logically terrible sequence of events? Looks like a scum trying to cover up an overreaction to a misread line. He then goes on to completely ignore the real argument I made in that post, which I will reiterate here. A ton of his language this game has been focused on making me look less credible. I might be "newbie town", but I can still read. But as soon as I say my read on him isn't that scummy... On November 27 2012 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This sucks. The only reason I'm doubting my read on Yamato is because I feel like I did this exact thing to Djo. I'll feel so guilty if he flips green. And I have to leave soon so I can't see this play out =\ My vote is between munk, yamato, and Oats (because he is so flip floppy and barely/refuses to back up anything he has) On November 27 2012 08:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Okay I have to leave... I doubt I'll return before lynch time. I'm trying to come up with scenarios that will play well in my head if either guy flips town. I think the lesser of the two evils is Munk at this point, simply due to passiveness and ultra mega sheepy attitude. People rolling their face over Yamato because of my few posts doesn't sit well with me... Crap, I hope this ain't a mistake. ##Vote: Munk-E The Cheese will take his leave. Best of luck guys. Completely removing himself from responsibility for his vote. As he said earlier, apparently only scum cares about looking scum. So why all the wishy-washy behavior about your vote on me? Why would you feel guilty if you are so convinced I am scum? Because in reality, you know I'm not. And if I flip green after this, and you were the one pushing this case that hardcore, people are going to look at YOU. And all this was after he posted this comment about me: On November 27 2012 06:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I see no reason I should take my vote off of him. Something does smell smelly, sir, and it's CHEESECAKE. | ||
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On November 27 2012 22:50 JacobStrangelove wrote: Why are we ignoring kickstart! But yeah to the post above looked into cheese however received only jumbled notes in return so I am glad you sorted it from your perspective. If you have a different read I would love to hear why. | ||
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On November 27 2012 21:55 Kickstart wrote: Well I didn't switch because I had a scumread on Oats and Yamato. The objective of the game is to lynch the scum, not to get rid of lurkers. I already expressed that it was a shame that Munk-E had been lurking but lynching a lurker is a coin-flip, one I didn't really want to be a part of. And since my top scumread was not going to get any other votes behind it, I put my vote behind who I felt was more likely scum instead of putting my vote on a coin flip. It's funny that your two scum reads are two people that have consistently gone after Cheesecake. Honestly, what about me reads scum? Make a real case. ANYONE. | ||
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On November 27 2012 23:08 JacobStrangelove wrote: Humor me and link to those posts. He can't, because they don't exist. Besides his ranting on Oats he hasn't given any detailed reasons as to why he voted for me. | ||
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If you read CC's posts differently you should point out why. If my case is weak you should be able to say why. You say the points are valid, so why is the case weak? | ||
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Aqua, you made the original case on kick. Your vote stuck with kick. What do you think of his play right now? Is your backing of your initial scum read final or are you still suspicious? Helos, your main scum read was wrong. He happened to be one of mine, too, but who else would you be suspicious of? Me? | ||
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Apply it to someone else. | ||
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Your A point is null because as scum you would know I'm a mislynch. WIFOM or not, it is true. It's also just a summary of what I've already quoted, which you ADMIT was bad play. Your B point is plainly false. You switching votes is to get away from suspicion. You can always look back and blame the Munk mislynch on something else. However, if you kept after me and I got lynched, the heat would be on you when I flip town. You not knowing whether I am a mislynch or not should KEEP you on my case not make you waffle and wagon on Munk. | ||
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On November 28 2012 01:06 Kickstart wrote: Okay from here on out I am going to lie to everyone and tell you that your crap cases are all ironclad, have no logical holes, and are all valid and we should lynch whoever you make the case on. Is that what people fucking want from me? I honestly don't understand this "OMG WHY YOU KEEP DEFENDING" bullshit. If a case is bad, it is bad - irregardless of whether or not I say it or not, it just seems I am the only one being honest and calling out shit cases when they are made. This is getting really, really, old. This is a game of logic - if you are making a case on someone that is fucking horrid, I am calling you on it - get over it. You didn't call my case bad you said it could be applied to other people. I know you're responding to CC but this doesn't make sense when he's asking you why you're defending yourself against MY case, which you have said is valid. So which is it, is my case against CC bad or is it that it could be applied to other people ( a point that I've challenged)? | ||
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On November 28 2012 01:21 Kickstart wrote: The fact that is can be applied to anyone inherently makes it a bad case when applied to one person. I don't think it can be applied to everyone. As I've told you before, you need to prove that point by applying it to someone else IN SPECIFIC. No one else has acted exactly as CC in my opinion, and if they have, you should point it out instead of discrediting my case against CC. If you agree with the logic of the case, you can't just call it "bad". | ||
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I pushed for Munk's lynch. His behavior looked odd and sheepish. It's unfortunate he didn't post more or we might have been able to avoid lynching him. Also, I am not sold on Oats as town or scum. His play is too erratic to read that well for me. | ||
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On November 28 2012 09:22 yamato77 wrote: i'm at work right now so I don't have a lot of time but that "case" against me is just kick pointing at Munk's read of me and going, "Look! I know you guys already saw this but I think it means something now!" The revelation that Munk-E is town does not make his read on me automatically correct. For your viewing pleasure. | ||
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But honestly, you haven't done much to prove you are town at all. I ask you for reads and opinions and you answer, but I don't really see you making any posts putting pressure on people or attempting to make cases against your scum suspects. I don't really know who they are, to be honest. | ||
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I'm not 100% confident on CC being scum. I posted the case more to point out that his actions were suspicious and needed reading into, which people have said they would do. I suppose on that front I have been successful so far Day 2. I also have been highly suspicious of Jacob for a while because of how little he has contributed and how much fluff his filter contains, but I don't like voting to lynch him because he hasn't exactly been causing problems for town, either. Oats, though, was a huge hindrance to town day 1. His posting was so chaotic that it was almost certainly designed to cause all sorts of discussion, for better or worse, but in no way could that discussion have been useful to town because nothing he said made any sense or was ever backed up with any solid reasoning. CC's case against him says as much, but as I said before he posted that, I don't think erratic play necessarily indicates scum. He could just be playing a really bad town game. I don't want to lynch people for being bad town. In reference to Munk's case (can't call it kick's because all he did was repost it basically), I think it's easy enough to explain. Of course I have been defending myself because tons of people have read me as scum this game and attacked me for it. You said yourself that this partly explains why I haven't been hunting scum as much, because I have been under attack almost every time I post. So from now on, I guess the best play for me to make is to IGNORE these cases on me based on my low level of contribution because to defend against them is counterproductive to the real goal of the game; hunting and lynching scum. I'll let you guys decide for yourselves if I am scum or not. No more input from me about my actions. | ||
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Pushy people don't seem town to me this game. I, as town, have been largely confused as to people's allegiance. I have expressed this, as has my top town read, SDM. I don't think town has had a really good shot at getting a good scum read because of the amount of unproductive discussion on me and your posting on CC. YOU might have had good intentions, as I initially read your play as a discussion starter, but it has since been really, really bad for town. Two people that HAVE been pushy with their reads are CC and Kick with their reads on the both of us. A lot of people's opinions on the both of us have been influenced by their insistent claims of our scummy nature. How are they so sure? Are we the only two in the game worthy of suspicion? Or just the two easiest targets for scum to bus? Also, LOL at the association case. No small coincidence that CC thinks us a scumteam as two people who have been suspicious of him from the start. | ||
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On November 29 2012 16:21 JacobStrangelove wrote: Show nested quote + On November 29 2012 15:48 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I haven't read jacob's response to the case btw. You haven't read my response? Lol don't bother just read yours again Comments to yamato is there any posts you have made where you mentioned being suspicious of me (I forgot) Or did you just decide to start being suspicious now that two other people are? Look at my filter. I have expressed my dislike for your play since D1. I also questioned you during our exchange over kick's read on me. This also isn't the first time I've had to direct you to posts I've made. Do you even read my filter? Jesus. | ||
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Oats that post is full of outright lies and you should feel bad. my motivation for choosing who to lynch has been trying to figure out how scum would play and looking at who has played that way. not going to repost that argument. I honestly didn't know if mafia KP could be role blocked. If it couldn't then one of our blues has a confirmed town which helps the game. that is why I asked. You have cherry-picked my posts pretty bad to make this bad case of yours. I know I said I wouldn't defend myself and all but I want people to see this terrible case so they know why I voted for you. only a scum would make a case this bad. ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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On November 29 2012 21:45 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Show nested quote + On November 29 2012 21:38 yamato77 wrote: Also I realize this looks like OMGUS but trust me, that case is REAL bad. So you're voting on him because his case is bad? If that is his real attempt at hunting scum, it is pathetically bad. His play this game has been terrible and he hasn't even tried to make it better. Scum. | ||
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I hate that Oats claimed blue. Honestly, I'm inclined not to believe it because SDM was THE MOST obvious scum target N1 so him claiming he protected him is not conclusive enough proof. It could just as easily be a fake claim by scum in that regard. Equally terrible is the fact that even if it saves him from getting lynched today is that unless there is a JK that protects him tonight, he has just painted a really huge target on his back as a blue for scum KP. Instead of claiming your supposed blue role, Oats, you should really make a case that isn't bad. The one point you have is that I'm not pursuant of Jacob, when in fact I've been trying to make him do more than use this thread as his bouncing board since D1. Why don't I consider him a valid lynch candidate? Because as I learned with Munk this game, people who are unsure of their reads and follow things posted in the thread are not necessarily scum. Maybe he hasn't made a case because there aren't that many to be made? Maybe he's not putting in the time to play optimally, just like Munk. Either way, I can't justify placing my vote on him today after seeing what happened yesterday. The argument I HAVE made about people that look scummy is that they are pushy with their reads and cases and try to be forceful in getting people to agree with them. As I said before, both Kick and CC have done this, and both of them continually attack me for not contributing when it is mostly their fault that I am constantly on the defensive. I may be an easy target to go after, admittedly, but I seriously doubt that I should be the only person in this game worthy of genuine suspicion. Scum would do this because the more time they waste getting people to look into a player they know is town, the less time there is for people to look at them. Helo is playing a deflection game, in my opinion. Twice CC has posted about Helo being uninterested in the game, and twice he has come out with cases pointing to other people. He doesn't seem involved in active discussion about those cases, either, he just posts and leaves. Really odd. Not leaning scum but it's just an observation. | ||
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I'm really pissed if he's actually a blue. WHY WOULD YOU PLAY SO BAD AS A BLUE? | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:41 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Also guys, start spamming the thread with your ideas. It's really tough for scum to give opinions on this sort of thing without fucking up, so if you wanna help establish your townieness, now is the time. Or we could not waste a bunch of time talking about a really scummy play by a person about to get lynched. | ||
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Your claim has zero proof, in my opinion. There is far more reason for scum to claim right now than a real blue. | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:45 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 00:43 yamato77 wrote: On November 30 2012 00:41 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Also guys, start spamming the thread with your ideas. It's really tough for scum to give opinions on this sort of thing without fucking up, so if you wanna help establish your townieness, now is the time. Or we could not waste a bunch of time talking about a really scummy play by a person about to get lynched. So what are you suggesting? Act like the claim never happened. | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:46 JacobStrangelove wrote: Should we just remain passive and watch a lynch go though on someone that blue claimed? Why not discuss it? Because the discussion is just going to be inconclusive anyway. Why waste time on it? There's no safe, conclusive proof either way so we just act like he didn't claim it and lynch him for his scummy play before this. | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:47 JacobStrangelove wrote: So you are saying a real blue would let themselves get lynched? A real blue wouldn't be so bad in the first placed as to get themselves in the position of having to claim to avoid getting lynched. A real blue would scumhunt like town, something he has not done this whole game. His play THE WHOLE GAME has been to cause really stupid discussion on things, why would he stop now? | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:50 Kickstart wrote: I agree 100% with yamato that this claim is fucking up town pretty bad because Oats basically forced us to divert the entire thread discussion to whether or not his claim is fake or real, but I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion yamato that we lynch him anyways - what if his claim is true? ;/ Then we lynched a lurking town D1 because he didn't put in enough time to play the game properly, and then we lynched a blue D2 for playing so terrible up the point of his claim that there was NO REASON to believe what he said when he claimed. If that's true, two town players have basically screwed over their own wincon. If we don't lynch him, who is the alternative? Jacob? Me? No one thinks CC is worthy of further inspection? What about Helo and Aqua? Are either of them worth suspicion? Is SDM's inconclusive play D2 helping town? His one and only case was one he backed off of D1. So you guys choose. Lynch Oats or find his potential scumbuddy. My vote sticks with him until someone else makes a case I can honestly get behind. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:01 Oatsmaster wrote: OH SHIT YAMATO JUST FORGOT TO MENTION KICKSTART. SCUM TEAM. Why would I mention kick when I'm having a conversation to him about who he should make a case on? Why does everyone think I'm on a scumteam? | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 01:00 Kickstart wrote: What in the world are you talking about SDM. Yuor reaction is so far from town thinking I'm thinking it might be scum thinking. EXPLAIN. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:04 JacobStrangelove wrote: Hey I am just looking though potential possibilities. And yes that isn't helping oats. I just find it hilarious that everyone's mention of association cases involves me. Seriously? I could definitely make an association case on Kick and CC but it's bad and I'm not going to mention it just to mention it. This is the kind of posting that makes people think you're not really playing, just kinda watching, which doesn't really help town. It doesn't hurt it either but I think you should put your notes together and make a fucking case. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 01:00 yamato77 wrote: On November 30 2012 00:50 Kickstart wrote: I agree 100% with yamato that this claim is fucking up town pretty bad because Oats basically forced us to divert the entire thread discussion to whether or not his claim is fake or real, but I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion yamato that we lynch him anyways - what if his claim is true? ;/ Then we lynched a lurking town D1 because he didn't put in enough time to play the game properly, and then we lynched a blue D2 for playing so terrible up the point of his claim that there was NO REASON to believe what he said when he claimed. If that's true, two town players have basically screwed over their own wincon. If we don't lynch him, who is the alternative? Jacob? Me? No one thinks CC is worthy of further inspection? What about Helo and Aqua? Are either of them worth suspicion? Is SDM's inconclusive play D2 helping town? His one and only case was one he backed off of D1. So you guys choose. Lynch Oats or find his potential scumbuddy. My vote sticks with him until someone else makes a case I can honestly get behind. The bolded parts look really scummy, who thinks of wincon in a situation like this? yamato also just names all the players without saying anything about them. Again FOR WHAT? Who thinks about wincon? What kind of stupid question is that? Am I not supposed to care about how to win? I name all the players to demonstrate the LACK of real cases against them, not to make them. All of our alternatives to lynching you are hilariously bad. | ||
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I'm not sold on this idea at all. | ||
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Again, I'm not sold on doc claiming at this point. I think we can definitely do other things than just speculate about this for 11 hours. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:44 HeloKnight wrote: Hm. He's either scum or doc and we would just be blind lynching. If you think he is scum without the claim, that is how you should act. | ||
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I suggest to the rest of my townie buddies that you look for someone else today. My time is going to be limited Friday and Saturday due to previous commitments. Tonight I will come back and do some real hard reads on people's filters to try to make more sense of this game. I think my criteria of town being unsure of itself this game is one to REALLY consider. Mafia has done a good job sowing extra layers of doubt in people's heads about allegiances. This is a vague criteria to look for but something to consider when reading people for tone. | ||
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On November 30 2012 06:12 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 06:00 yamato77 wrote: Alright last post before I head to work. I suggest to the rest of my townie buddies that you look for someone else today. My time is going to be limited Friday and Saturday due to previous commitments. Tonight I will come back and do some real hard reads on people's filters to try to make more sense of this game. I think my criteria of town being unsure of itself this game is one to REALLY consider. Mafia has done a good job sowing extra layers of doubt in people's heads about allegiances. This is a vague criteria to look for but something to consider when reading people for tone. So scum is pretending to be confident in their reads in order to sow confusion? I feel like I've been one of the most confused AND confusing players in this game. The only thing I seem to have been able to establish is my own townieness. Don't get me wrong, players who seems to deliberately sow confusion is scummy. Sometimes being confused yourself will sow confusion. Jesus Christ, this post is confusing. Dude I am going to say the same thing I said to Jacob because you have posted like him since halfway through D1. I know this game is difficult and all but using the thread as your personal idea checker isn't helping anyone. Figure out what you think scum's plan was this game. Look for people who have acted like you think scum would act. All these self-esteem issues you're having with your reads is beginning to make me think you might not be so townie after all. You haven't pushed a single case all game. You dropped your (bad) case on CC the INSTANT he responded to it. Since then you have done little else but basically sheep yourself on other people's cases and post every little minute thought about the game you've had in the thread. Shape up. | ||
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FoS: Sonic Death Monkey | ||
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I say I can't remember you making your own cases but that doesn't mean that you haven't at all. I ask others to look because I don't have the time on my phone at work to do so. | ||
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On November 30 2012 11:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Holy fuck if I'm wrong I'm going to be so pissed at myself. I pray to God that you guys actually think Aqua is scum and aren't just sheeping off me for no reason. Same thing you said about me day 1. | ||
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And then you. All you do is vote for the most likely candidate to save your own ass. This game too real. | ||
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On November 30 2012 12:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: At least I'm keeping things interesting. Obs would have been bored as fuck if we just waited for the Oats lynch, Game's about having fun, amirite? :p Anyway, time for bed. Scummiest response to a lynch ever? | ||
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On November 30 2012 13:06 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 13:05 yamato77 wrote: Lol whatever. I you are really town you need to start fucking playing like it because if I don't get killed tonight (HIGHLY likely at this point), I'm coming after you D3. That goes for CC and SDM as well. one of you is responsible for this whole thing. What are you implying exactly? Should be obvious. | ||
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That being said, you and I are the only two players left who voted for him. I think we should push for his lynch D3 together and get the scummiest player in the game dead. I'm not going to post any of my cases during this night period. Just letting all of you know so you don't go "Well yamato is STILL doing nothing" which is blatantly false. | ||
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On November 30 2012 10:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 06:13 Aquanim wrote: I can't see us having more than two power roles, and (probably) not less than two either. If they all claim, and we ended up with three including Oats that would be an effective counterclaim. Having all the PRs claim seems pretty ridiculous though, and I don't think it's worth it. I can't distinguish anything Oats has done since my vote between "oh crap, I'm doctor about to be lynched" and "oh crap, I'm scum about to be lynched". I reckon his posting quality has improved maybe a little, but that doesn't tell me anything. And claiming doctor and a protect on SDM is about as obvious and easy a fake-claim as claiming VT, esp. without a crumb. Dammit! If you're a doctor, I'm really sorry, but I just. can't. tell. And I still have no better reads, and I still think this read won't improve. Vote sticks. I have 5 minutes before I have to leave, and I won't be back before lynch. In the event of a massclaim, which I do not endorse, it may be possible for me to leave a message with someone and have them post it. I really dont like this post.. It doesnt say ANYTHING at all. Show nested quote + On November 29 2012 20:21 Aquanim wrote: <snip> As for Oatsmaster, I just don't like how uselessly he's been posting, and he keeps wriggling out of giving cases... he made one on HeloKnight and darted out from under it at the first opportunity, and I don't think he's given much else which I found sensible. He's marginally my best scum read, and the concept of MyLo or LyLo with him in the game just makes me sick. Everyone else I think I might be able to improve my read of with more posts and more reading, but this read on Oats is about as confident as I'm ever going to be on him. When we get down to "get this right or lose" I want people I at least *think* I can read. So i go from marginally best scum read to only scum read? Bad reason to lynch. Oats playing up to par this game. The simplest explanation for his ENTIRE filter is scum. Everything he's done this game reads scum at this point, because in now way would a bad town keep playing so fucking bad. His "case" against Aqua is in the same vein as his "case" against me and his "case" against CC. He keeps posting utter shit to try to get people to bandwagon someone else to save his own ass. His blue claim is equally the same sort of play. It managed to get enough of you uncomfortable that you lynched a town player. There's zero reason to take this guy seriously but yet CC and SDM have? Why? Let's look at them. On November 30 2012 10:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Okay so, a hasty as shit case on Aqua + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 17:35 Aquanim wrote: Show nested quote + On November 26 2012 17:01 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: On November 26 2012 16:49 Aquanim wrote: Hello everyone, I'm back. For now: ##Vote: Munk-E I require more posts from Munk-E to make any kind of a read on him. Post some more stuff Munk-E, look for scum (somewhere other than in Oatsmaster's early contributions, there's plenty more to read now). If your posts have new content this vote will disappear. Aqua, that's all you got after all this discussion? It is not. (Apologies, this took a while to write, and yes, I was aware of the hypocrisy.) tl;dr: I believe Kickstart is scum. Kickstart's First Post Kickstart's first post was completely contentless. Some rambling about a previous game he's played, just filling space, and the same jab at Oatsmaster that pretty much every other player made. SDM and Jacob had the same material to work with and gave some sensible analysis. And then, after four hours of lurking... DING DING DING DING DING ...Kickstart jumps on Oatsmaster's CC vote. Show nested quote + On November 25 2012 21:27 Kickstart wrote: First off your format for your vote is wrong, secondly saying you are "intensely serious" is not a case on cheesecake. Frankly this is ridiculous and so anti-town so far that if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play. The beginning of your filter is all fluff, which isn't that big of a deal since it is the start of the game and I don't really expect anything amazing from anyone, but then you post: On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him On November 25 2012 13:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Im seriously not sarcastic. Seriously. Its a feeling, I cant base it off anything though :/ I already told you before, if you are suspicious of someone you need to make a better post than that, you need to make a case against the person providing reasons for why they are suspicious. Then there is this: On November 25 2012 13:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah, also the worst decision to do 1 for 1 trades. think about it if I'm scum, why would I randomly single out cheesecake? why did I even post? so far this game is so slow and as scum, they want it that way. Why would you bring up "think about if I was scum", that is not a town mindset. Scum are the ones who would say something like that, all town needs to do is let their actions show that they are being pro-town, and so far you arent. And then the final straw for me so far is this: On November 25 2012 18:45 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah that was kinda extreme and was said to provoke a reaction. Which kinda worked :D Nothing personal Cheesecake, I think you got extremely screwed by misunderstandings the last game On November 25 2012 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I probably cant be around during lynch but I will try to be there a few hours before. Vote: Cheesecake I am intensely serious. Munk-e and Jacob, where did you go? So you say yeah ok me saying cheese is scum without providing any reasoning is a bit extreme, THEN YOU DO IT ANYWAYS????? This is unacceptable. I suggest you start making some real cases, untill then: ##vote: Oatsmaster Kickstart claims Oatsmaster's vote is "anti-town", or "if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play". How in the hell is voting for your top scum read anti town? Especially when the thread has stagnated. Also, trying to remove guilt from himself if/when Oats flips town ("I told you guys he might be bad town anyway, remember?") I'll grant you Oatsmaster is not playing cautious obv-town, but I don't really see anything he's done as being exceptionally scum motivated. What kind of newbie scum randomly tunnels someone within their first three posts? For reference, a post about Oatsmaster which meets with more of my approval is HeloKnight's return #246. Sure, it's not entirely original, but at least he's making an effort. HeloKnight is LOOKING FOR SCUMINESS in Oatsmaster with this post, not saying "Take your vote off Cheesecake because it's bad." Kickstart's subsquent posts don't inspire a lot of town feeling in me either. Next were some short postsposts, which seem to be more about defending Cheesecake than looking for Oats scum. Show nested quote + On November 25 2012 22:02 Kickstart wrote: This is stupid btw, we should be scumhunting. If you are going to vote someone, you need to show why you think they are scum. I showed why your posting so far and your vote is crap, and you have still refused to make a case or provide adequate reasoning for your vote. We need to be finding scum - so do it and stop wasting time. With that I will ask again: Can you give us a reason why you think Cheese is scummy and why you voted for him? "This is stupid btw, we should be scumhunting." Do as I say, not as I do? None of Kickstart's posts are about Oatsmaster being scum, just about Oatsmaster being bad (specifically, his vote on Cheese being bad). Show nested quote + On November 25 2012 22:40 Kickstart wrote: You two seem to be agreeing that you don't think Oats is scum. Can you explain his vote onto cheese then, because he apparently can't provide a decent explanation for it himself. How is throwing a random vote onto someone without giving any sort of decent explanation town play? All Oats' vote has done is sow confusion because of how pointless it seems to be - which is scummy. Now if you have actual reasons to vote for someone, and present them to everyone, then discussion can flow from it and we can better assess everyone and get some reads going - but as I said you didn't provide that so have only managed to cause confusion. So aside from waiting for a decent explanation from Oats, I would like for some other people to actually get involved in the thread, so far discussion has been between a few people and on not a very broad spectrum of topics, neither of which is good for town at this point. GUYS GUYS WHY ARE YOU NOT PUSHING MY MISLYNCH WAGON FOR ME GUYS And then there was some more defence of Cheesecake. Show nested quote + On November 26 2012 06:09 Kickstart wrote: Lol wow I missed that post from yama, glad you pointed it out SDM because yeah it is suspicious. @ Yamato77 You saying Cheese doesn't read town is nice and all, but I am more interested (as I think SDM has said (and you better not accuse me of what you accused cheese of SDM!)) in if you read him as scum. Do you have any scum reads at all? As far as I can tell you are just saying you are suspicious of cheese because he said he was suspicious of you.... Pretty opportunistic poke at yamato, but doesn't lose sight of his main goal - defend the cheesecake! Kickstart also pokes lurkers a lot - easy to do as scum or town. No judgement here. Conclusion: Everyone else commented on Oatsmaster's read and vote based on how they reflected on Oatsmaster. Kickstart appears to be placing a much greater emphasis on how a vote for Cheesecake is bad. In particular, I believe Kickstart was the only one who wanted Oatsmaster to take his CC vote back (which doesn't make any sense, what's done is done and Oatsmaster will just take more flak if he does). Besides Oatsmaster, Kickstart hasn't looked for scum anywhere else at all, and I don't think his scumhunting on Oatsmaster is genuine. His only priority appears to be defending Cheesecake. There are three possibilities: (1) Kickstart is scum, knows Mr. Cheesecake is town and is white-knighting him. A lot. (2) Kickstart and Mr. Cheesecake are both scum and Kickstart is defending his scumbuddy. (3) Kickstart is town, has a town read on Mr. Cheesecake (correct or not) and for some reason feels the need to defend him vehemently against all attacks, in lieu of any actual search for scum. I don't buy (3), and so ##Vote: Kickstart The Kickstart case in a summary: He attacks Oats (not scummy), and he defends me. This case relies waaaaay too heavily on him defending me. What other reason does he have, seriously? Especially after how scummy oats/yamato were being D1. Then, what I like to call "The Exodus of the Munk Votes" brought to you by Aqua: + Show Spoiler + On November 27 2012 21:41 Aquanim wrote: The Munk-E Lynch - How It Went Down (Votecounts in the spoilers.) 26th November (Before this is Oatsmaster's CC vote and Kickstart's Oats vote.) [4:59] SDM FoS's Cheesecake, makes case largely based on meta. [5:01] SDM votes Cheesecake. [5:18] Munk-E appears in thread with useless post. [6:18] Munk-E makes a less useless post on Oatsmaster. [6:58] Having obtained a meaningful post from HeloKnight, CC un-FoS's him and Cheesecake votes Yamato. [7:02] SDM unvotes Cheesecake. SDM votes Yamato. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake(1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77(2): Mr. Cheesecake, Sonic Death Monkey [9:22] HeloKnight analyses Munk-E's (short) filter. HeloKnight votes Munk-E. [16:49] Aquanim votes Munk-E. [17:35] Aquanim makes Kickstart case. Aquanim votes Kickstart. [23:10] Yamato makes a long defensive post and gives his reads. [23:14] SDM summarises current cases. 27th November [0:09] Kickstart makes an angry counter-post to case against him. [0:15] SDM votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77 (1): Mr. Cheesecake Munk-E(2): HeloKnight,Sonic Death Monkey Kickstart(1): Aquanim [0:38] Kickstart posts his reads. [0:39] Yamato votes Munk-E. [2:13] Jacob votes Yamato. [2:16] Cheesecake analyses Yamato further, and expresses the opinion that he "feels like this Munk-E lynch is an easy way for scum to secure a mislynch". Likes Helo, feels Oats isn't doing much. [5:51] Munk-E makes a post on Yamato. Munk-E votes Yamato. [6:04] Kickstart is satisfied with Munk-E. Kickstart unvotes Oatsmaster. Kickstart votes Yamato. [6:11] Aquanim leaves vote on Kickstart and leaves. [6:33] HeloKnight posts on Munk-E, is not convinced. [7:19] Yamato rants at Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Yamato77 (4): Mr. Cheesecake, Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (3): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77 Kickstart(1): Aquanim [7:25] Mr. Cheesecake votes Kickstart. [7:47] Mr. Cheesecake unvotes Kickstart. [7:51] Oatsmaster votes Kickstart. [8:40] Mr. Cheesecake votes Munk-E and leaves. Justifies his switch by saying he thinks lynching a town Munk-E would be better than lynching a town Yamato. [8:40 - 8:55] Jacob and Yamato discuss Yamato's play. [10:10] Debears is modkilled. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Yamato77 (3): Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (4): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake Kickstart(2): Aquanim, Oatsmaster [10:11] Jacob claims he "can't vote for Yamato with the votes like this". Jacob votes Munk-E. [10:17] Oatsmaster and Kickstart going at it again. [10:52] HeloKnight posts about Munk-E again. [11:25] Oatsmaster approves of Kickstart's "vitriol and fire" play. Oatsmaster unvotes Kickstart. Oatsmaster votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Yamato77 (1): Kickstart, Munk-E Munk-E (6): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake, Jacob, Oatsmaster Kickstart(1): Aquanim [11:35] Munk-E makes a pretty bad final plea. [11:36] HeloKnight becomes a little more conciliatory about Munk-E's play, but doesn't want to lynch Yamato. ... and nothing more of importance until Munk-E flips VT at 12. At least he wasn't blue, I guess. So, what's to be learned from this? One question is: what happened to the Yamato lynch? Up until four hours before lynch Yamato was leading Munk-E in the lynch stakes. @everyone who switched from Yamato to Munk-E (in other words, everyone except Kickstart): Why did you switch? And for that matter, Kickstart, why didn't you switch? Also of note: HeloKnight made the original case on Munk-E, and pushed it pretty hard except at the end (when a Munk-E lynch was pretty much a lock): Show nested quote + On November 27 2012 11:36 HeloKnight wrote: Okay, I still think it's a little suspicious that your top read also happened to be the wagon of the time, but I'll drop that point because a townie would go after their top scum read. I still don't want to lynch yamato today. I'm trying to not "white knight" him and to keep my mind open to him as scum, but I'm leaning pretty hard towards a newbie town feel right now. Trying to make himself look a little better for when Munk-E flips green, and keeping his options open on yamato? Looking through HeloKnight's filter I don't see much scumhunting substance besides his Munk-E case and an earlier, inconclusive post on Oatsmaster (and let's face it, a case on a lurker with two posts isn't exactly difficult to concoct). I'd appreciate other people looking through HeloKnight's posts and giving your opinion. This post is the scummiest thing ever. Spreads suspicion on everyone that isn't himself and asks a ton of questions that he never follows up on. What the hell is the Town motivation for this post? Playing neutral as all fuck: Show nested quote + On November 26 2012 18:42 Aquanim wrote: In reference to the Yamato case, this post has been coming up: On November 25 2012 14:16 yamato77 wrote: Still feel uneasy about me? When I saw this post originally, I thought the same thing that I've been seeing in your reads - that it seems like anxious scum. This was in reference to a post I made which (among other things) said I was uneasy about yamato. However, yamato (and CC) had posted since my last refresh and I then posted that I'd been ninja-d a lot. I can well believe that yamato might have thought I'd made the second post because my uneasiness about him had been nullified. Could well still be scum paranoia, but there's a reasonable innocent explanation too. I'm still thinking about the rest of the case. Show nested quote + On November 25 2012 14:57 Aquanim wrote: Sure, he's made all of On November 25 2012 14:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On November 25 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes totally agree with Cheesecake. only 5/9 are here, where are the rest On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him I really don't understand where your trepidations are coming from. You agree with me, but get scummy feelings from me? I'm not liking this. In the first quote Cheesecake took, Oatsmaster is agreeing with this post: On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? which is pretty generically town-speech stuff from Mr. Cheesecake. I could well see Oatsmaster agreeing with the body of this message, BUT not liking the fact that Cheesecake is making speeches rather than poking people and looking for scum. (I'm taking a wild guess at what Oatsmaster's feeling was based on here.) And apart from Cheesecake's questions in his first post and contentless sniping at Oatsmaster since that's all there is. Show nested quote + On November 27 2012 06:11 Aquanim wrote: On November 27 2012 00:15 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: @Aqua I expressed why I wasn't entirely convinced about your Kick case here. If you're convinced he's scum, can you explain why you don't share those concerns? Kickstart's defence of Cheesecake wasn't limited to Oatsmaster's case - iirc he poked at the use of meta in your CC case, too. The combination of these two, and the lack of serious posting on any other topics really, is what's setting me off. I'm not quite as convinced as I was last night, but I certainly don't have any better reads. On November 26 2012 22:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Aqua Do you REALLY think Yamato has more insightful posts than Helo? Helo was playing neutral, sure, but at least he had the audacity to come up with an original case on Munk with the little posts he had. Imo he's showing way more initiative than this Yamato fellow. Not sure I've read the case in detail, but with the natural suspiciousness on someone with two posts total it's not hard to make some kind of convincing case. I'm not saying Yamato is TELLING us anything more useful, but I just get the feeling that his posts are probing people a little more. Asking more interesting questions. It's a vague feeling though. My vote stays on Kickstart... I'm beginning to see how he might do this as town, but I still think that what he's been posting would look awfully tempting as mafia. I think I might be missing something about Yamato that you are all seeing, but I don't have time to look at all of his posts in context right now. I'm not comfortable leaving a vote on Munk-E when his filter (and the substantiation of any reads on him) could quadruple in size. Kickstart, if you're town, I expect serious and active scumhunting from you in the future. See you on the other side. Also: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR VOTE ON KICK?!?! Town would weigh in on the discussion at hand: Yamato versus Munk. Not keep their vote somewhere useless. You don't give a shit who is lynched. The only other thing Aqua has done this game is push an Oats lynch, which is EZ as FK to do at this point in time. I've seen very little original thinking from him. CC's terribad case on Aqua. None of it is convincing at all. He posts a lot of quotes and puts some stuff in red and everyone sheeps this shit. Aqua playing NEUTRAL is scummy? For fucking real? That's a point in his case? What the fuck. This is REALLY scummy play. Could definitely see CC/Oats scumteam going, "HEY, I THINK I CAN GET PEOPLE TO SHEEP MY AQUA CASE!" "GOOD LOL I'LL POST A SHIT ONE TOO!". Town should get roasted for following this guy into lynching Aqua. He doesn't give ANY good reason for not lynching Oats at all, and then starts a bandwagon on Aqua with just a post about how he thinks he is scummy. What the fuck? The most perplexing thing this game is SDM. Why would someone I read as such a strong town D1 and part of D2 get himself involved in this Aqua business? Surely a good town player would see a counterwagon for what it is, right? On November 30 2012 11:06 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I'm starting to talk myself into an Aqua lynch... slowly. Here's my terrible contribution to the case. Those are two posts that, for the same reason, struck me as a bit weird when I read them. Aqua is SCUM because he seems to deliberately focus on being original in an unnatural way (lol me). Show nested quote + On November 29 2012 18:09 Aquanim wrote: I can't shake the feeling that Oatsmaster is capable of much better posting than this. It's kinda difficult to substantiate a read like this, but I have a few points: 1) The Cheesecake vote. This is in some ways a townish move - it started the first real discussion and got the real game underway. I was particularly liking this because I too had a difficult-to-define scum read from CC's first handful of posts. On the other hand, we discussed Oatsmaster's vote around and around through all of day one, and didn't really accomplish that much with it (he was just too random to lynch). Perhaps this was his intention? 2) These posts: On November 27 2012 11:57 Oatsmaster wrote: also to everyone who said that I tunneled CC, You do not understand what tunneled MEANS. On November 28 2012 08:56 Oatsmaster wrote: I see the folly of my bad play d1, but if it helps us to find scum, I am fine with it. This would seem to indicate to me that he isn't just playing badly, he's aware of what he is doing. I mean, his posts were kinda better day two until the lolswitch onto Jacob (and tbh I think there's a worthwhile case to be made on Helo out there) but still... 3) The hammer thing: On November 28 2012 17:13 Aquanim wrote: On November 27 2012 11:45 Oatsmaster wrote: The last newbie mafia had 2 so 2 would make sense for this one. Im confused Munk-e? I hammered the vote! ! ! Quick question @Oatsmaster. What did you mean by "hammered the vote"? On November 28 2012 19:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Again, it was a joke. hammering the vote means that your vote causes the guy to be lynched, if you didnt vote for him, he wont be lynched. Do you have examples of my disjointed thoughts? What do you think about helo being scum? I knew full well what a hammer is. (Check this one out sometime, it's hilarious.) But anyone who knows what a hammer is, or has even heard of one, either read a GSL mafia game, in detail, or has experience with mafia offsite (the concept only applies to instant lynch), which is more experience than I'd expect someone posting like Oats to have. For that matter, Oatsmaster made the sixth vote with nine players, so it's not even like his vote gave Munk-E a majority of the votes. Again, something I would expect someone who knows about hammers at all to know. 4) Grammar. It's not that hard to make a little effort. Everyone else in the game is. And I for one find uncapitalised, unpunctuated posts harder to read and tend to glaze over them. Again, perhaps this is intentional. Look, none of these point are a slam-dunk, and it's not like I have any meta to work with. But the outline they sketch out is interesting - I see a player TRYING to look bad (apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am). And Oats is not contributing anything towards a town victory. Daft town is quite capable of doing that too, but the simplest explanation is scum. ##Vote: Oatsmaster After the Oats wagon gains momentum, Aqua appears. Instead of rehashing the good points that has been made before, he's making up 4 of his own. And they are quite terrible (I thought that at the time as well, even though I was in full confirmation bias mode vs Oats). Particularly 3) and 4) are terrible. Grammar lol? Why would a townie be so fucking insistant in making original points for the sake of it? He ignores the good points already made (I know there has been one more nistance of this that caught my eye but can't remember which). Show nested quote + On November 30 2012 06:13 Aquanim wrote: I can't see us having more than two power roles, and (probably) not less than two either. If they all claim, and we ended up with three including Oats that would be an effective counterclaim. Having all the PRs claim seems pretty ridiculous though, and I don't think it's worth it. I can't distinguish anything Oats has done since my vote between "oh crap, I'm doctor about to be lynched" and "oh crap, I'm scum about to be lynched". I reckon his posting quality has improved maybe a little, but that doesn't tell me anything. And claiming doctor and a protect on SDM is about as obvious and easy a fake-claim as claiming VT, esp. without a crumb. Dammit! If you're a doctor, I'm really sorry, but I just. can't. tell. And I still have no better reads, and I still think this read won't improve. Vote sticks. I have 5 minutes before I have to leave, and I won't be back before lynch. In the event of a massclaim, which I do not endorse, it may be possible for me to leave a message with someone and have them post it. I recently quoted this again he comes up with a fucking terrible idea that is "original". It feels forced and makes no sense. And it ends with that really weird hint. One might argue that the Kicks case falls under the same category. After actually analyzing it it just makes no sense, it's just original for the sake of being original. So, what do we think, guys? NOPE. He's bad too. He talks himself out of the best play D2, lynching the scumbag Oats, and then posts a case calling Aqua scum for being ORIGINAL? What the fuck? You guys have railed on me and others for "sheeping", and the best thing you come up with against Aqua is that he DOESN'T sheep? COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT. You should be ashamed as town for how terrible that logic is. I can't even fathom why town SDM would post that case. I am CONVINCED that two of these three are scum. If I survive until D3 I will go after all three until I get to the bottom of this. JACOB AND HELO: You guys should not have voted for Aqua. Why the fuck did you? Neither of you read him as scum. You both got convinced by SDM to lynch this townie. You cannot allow your play to be dictated by people posting such bad cases. D3 I expect both of you to come out super strong. If you are town, you need to take me seriously. Town has had no direction this game. We've failed to lynch ANY scum. We need to step it up D3 or we are going to lose. That means not talking yourself out of scum reads. Not letting others talk you out of scum reads. I am guilty of this, too, but I am standing strong. Town should stand behind me. | ||
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On December 01 2012 09:03 Oatsmaster wrote: How does switching to aqua make me scum? Everything you have done this game makes you scum. It's no surprise you jumped on the wagon on Aqua to save your own ass. | ||
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Stil highly suspicious of CC. Kick and Jacob need to play better. Helo is most definitely not scum. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 08:23 yamato77 wrote: I don't understand this "confirmed townie" talk. No one is confirmed town until they flip. Oats and Jacob are confirmed because they are blue. Just because someone says they are blue does not make them blue. There might only be one blue and that person is letting these stupid claims go through. It looks suspicious to just call Oats and Jacob "confirmed" right now. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 08:50 yamato77 wrote: On December 02 2012 08:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On December 02 2012 08:23 yamato77 wrote: I don't understand this "confirmed townie" talk. No one is confirmed town until they flip. Oats and Jacob are confirmed because they are blue. Just because someone says they are blue does not make them blue. There might only be one blue and that person is letting these stupid claims go through. It looks suspicious to just call Oats and Jacob "confirmed" right now. There are two blues in 9 player setups. Either cop/jk or cop/doc. Has always been that way. The lack of counterclaims pretty much means they are confirmed. It's balance. Looking at Newbie Mini XXXII, there are setups with one and no blues. This setup is also partially closed to us so you can't say for sure that there are ANY blues. Nor can you say for sure that the lack of counterclaims means they are confirmed, even if there are two blues. Certainty on alignment is a luxury reserved for the dead and scum, are you scum? | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 09:01 yamato77 wrote: And WTF at calling Aqua's lynch a "good" play. Lynching town is never a good play if you are town. Obviously lynching a confirmed doctor is better. If you can't see why the lynch was beneficial for town, sorry bro. Losing a town player is NEVER beneficial for town. OATS ISN'T EVEN CONFIRMED. Dude you sound so much like scum it's stupid. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Oats is confirmed because SDM friggen DIED. If there was a JK he would have protected SDM the obvious target. Oats is doc. There are two blues because it's BALANCED. Two blue claims and no counterclaims. Still speculation. OP clearly says amounts of roles are not CONFIRMED so you can't just throw that word around to make yourself and Oats look town. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 09:12 yamato77 wrote: Basically you are trying to turn around how bad your play was with these really bad assumptions you are making. Of course the dumbass who started a wagon on a town player would want to do this because it makes him look like he "saved" a blue. You're either scum covering his ass for a shit play or delusional. I should have lynched you when I got the chance. You're either scum or pretty oblivious town. Please, why the fuck would a scum want to start a wagon on a VT over killing the Doctor? It makes no sense for scum. At least with the Aqua lynch we got some information. This logic relies heavily on Oats actually BEING the doctor which is NOT confirmed. EVEN IF there are two blues, the other doc/JK could NOT want to counterclaim and have saved SDM N1 and been unable to N2. If Oats is scum the play makes perfect sense which means Oats/CC scum team. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 09:16 yamato77 wrote: On December 02 2012 09:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On December 02 2012 09:12 yamato77 wrote: Basically you are trying to turn around how bad your play was with these really bad assumptions you are making. Of course the dumbass who started a wagon on a town player would want to do this because it makes him look like he "saved" a blue. You're either scum covering his ass for a shit play or delusional. I should have lynched you when I got the chance. You're either scum or pretty oblivious town. Please, why the fuck would a scum want to start a wagon on a VT over killing the Doctor? It makes no sense for scum. At least with the Aqua lynch we got some information. This logic relies heavily on Oats actually BEING the doctor which is NOT confirmed. EVEN IF there are two blues, the other doc/JK could NOT want to counterclaim and have saved SDM N1 and been unable to N2. If Oats is scum the play makes perfect sense which means Oats/CC scum team. First of all -- Oats and I were at each others throats the entire game. See my big ass case on him. There is absolutely no way we're scum team. The other blues would have counterclaimed by now. A doctor would have claimed D2 to out Oats. There is absolutely no reason why Oats is not the Doctor. Tbh, If me and Oats were scumteam I would have bussed his ass so hard. Your opposition of this lynch is based solely on the fact that you don't think their are two blues. Trust me, for it to be a balanced setup, there are two blues. You are ASSUMING doctor would counterclaim. You are also ASSUMING that people would believe the counterclaim and actually lynch Oats, if the real doctor counterclaimed. If there even is a doctor at all. Cop/JK is a possibility even if there are two blues. This is not convincing enough for me to just take Oats as "confirmed doctor". The fact that you are taking it for granted based on these ASSUMPTIONS you are making is really suspicious. | ||
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If you look at it from my perspective, that scum Oats claimed blue to save his own ass, and YOU started the wagon that ultimately did save him, then it looks hilariously suspicious. Unless you can prove with GOOD, SOLID logic that Oats is town then I remain unconvinced. I admit I might be wrong but there really isn't any evidence that this isn't the case. | ||
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On November 30 2012 11:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: >Talks about Yamato >Wild Yamato appears No lynch is not an option at this point i dont think. Fucking liar. | ||
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Honestly who gives that little of a fuck about who gets lynched? It's all about saving Oats to you in that play. I don't see how a town player would want to mislynch another town just because he wants to save a "blue" that isn't even close to "confirmed" when he has railed on that player the entire game. I thought he was scum and the blue claim looked like saving his own ass. You thought he was scum beforehand and the blue claim actually changed your opinion on him? Is the lack of a counterclaim really that conclusive to you? Because it's not to me. | ||
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On December 02 2012 12:02 Oatsmaster wrote: lol so no breadcrumb helped me this game :D Also yamato, what do you think of helo IMMEDIATELY discounting me and Jacob? Same thing CC did. Stop being biased. | ||
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On December 02 2012 12:04 JacobStrangelove wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 12:03 yamato77 wrote: JK misplayed Night 2 or got roleblocked by mafia. No claim. Checkmate. just because they haven't claimed doesn't mean they don't exist. A "claim" is not foolproof. | ||
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On December 02 2012 12:10 Oatsmaster wrote: There is zero doubt that I am doctor. OK. If you were 6.1 down on votes and your fakeclaim is not working, what would you do yamato? give up, thats right. But I didnt, town obviously puts in more effort to not be mislynched. You cant seriously think aqua was very townie when we lynched him can you? Lol wtf. Obviously I did think he was more town than you and I am only confirmed by the lynch results. | ||
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That being said Helo is still more convincing than CC. Oats could definitely be the confused townie being preyed upon by CC/Jacob scumteam. | ||
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Gonna think a while. Basically a whole day is left until lynch and I don't have anything to do tomorrow so we'll see how it plays out from here. | ||
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Even the scum QT basically points to me being really bad. D: I dunno. I need to obs way more games before I do this again. | ||
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On December 02 2012 13:51 Clarity_nl wrote: Btw guys, don't put too much value in blue roles. There are 2 scum total, if you can kill a scum by making a blue claim, do it. So in this case when Oats claims medic don't spend 5 pages discussing whether there should be a counter-claim if possible, there is no question that a counter claim should happen. Okay, I see where I got hung up here. I thought the opposite and let it color my opinion a lot. | ||
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On December 02 2012 13:53 Aquanim wrote: I lold though when I saw that you thought I had no original thoughts, and SDM thought I was too original. That was weird for me too. Threw me WAY off. I honestly thought that one of the two was scum for how bad those cases were. But had I not been so hung up on Oats being scum, I could have seen it their way that they were just trying to stop a mislynch on a blue. zz | ||
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You have NO IDEA how much I typed in the first few posts of the game only to delete it all and post 1 line. ROFL. | ||
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EDIT: By that I mean I thought about asking for coaching and talked myself out of it. The one time I did I felt so dumb. | ||
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11-29-2012 01:52 AM ET (US) Yamato catches scum but doesn't know it: "in reference to Munk's case (can't call it kick's because all he did was repost it basically" scumtell! Gah! ROFL. People had called my posts OMGUS so many times by this point I wasn't going to turn it around on my accuser again. I did think he was really suspicious at that point. | ||
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11-28-2012 10:03 PM ET (US) The entire town is gonna wake up tomorrow and vote oats, oats is gonna claim medic saving SDM, no counterclaim means he's telling the truth. Then they lynch someone and he dies during night. HE CALLED IT | ||
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On December 02 2012 15:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 15:09 yamato77 wrote: Clarity_nl 11-28-2012 10:03 PM ET (US) The entire town is gonna wake up tomorrow and vote oats, oats is gonna claim medic saving SDM, no counterclaim means he's telling the truth. Then they lynch someone and he dies during night. HE CALLED IT Apparently this wasn't true. :p I'm bad. | ||
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Original Message From marvellosity: so, how did you end up on monk-e and not kickstart? ROFL. Stupid yamato | ||
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On December 02 2012 23:25 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 13:47 Aquanim wrote: I really need to have more time to play (particularly in the US daytime) I think, not being able to push my questions and cases in person was pretty frusturating (and if I've understood your case right, is what got me lynched in the end). Unfortunately I won't have any more time until Feburary so I don't think I'll be playing again for a while. No hard feelings - I'll obs some games, and hopefully be playing again in a couple of months. I think you played well. I think a lot of the things you said were really townie. The lynch of you was really arbitrary and mostly because Jacob, CC and I thought Oats was doc. I don't know how I ended up talking myself out of my town lean on you, but it was fucking 4am and my brain wasn't working. I'll admit, that sequence of events really threw me for a loop. First Oats claims doc, no one wants to believe him, then CC entered the thread and everyone went full regard and lynched Aqua. I was CERTAIN that scum was behind it so the post I made N2 really reflects how mad I was that we lynched Aqua instead of Oats or even no lynch. I still think it should have been a no lynch looking back. I probably would have switched my vote to that at the time. Lesson learned. Sometimes last minute wagons are comprised solely of insane town members trying to save the scummy looking player who claims doc. Sometimes. | ||
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My play this game was totally dictated by being voted or day one. I overreacted to it and played way more emotionally than I think I would have otherwise. | ||
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Really, thanks for everyone who has posted anything about this game. Even obs QT with all of its bemoaning of my play has been extremely helpful in learning where I went wrong. Again, thank you for hosting these newbie games, guys, it really makes me feel like I'm welcomed into this crazy community. | ||
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