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11589 Posts
I don't particularly care for how me jumped on me after one post, especially when it gave a similar read to his own.
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11589 Posts
Also, to clarify, when I say Oats is a bored townie, calling someone scum really early is just what I think a bored townie would do when no one is posting anything useful. His posting after that is what I mean to be not alignment indicative.
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The most suspicious thing about yamato right now is the timing of his CC post (right after SDM posted his CC case), making it seem like he's trying to hop on/start a wagon. The problem is that I'm not confident that this makes him scum. He might have been, like he says, just commenting on the person in the spotlight.
Right now, I would be more comfortable lynching Munk-E. He's had a grand total of two posts so far, and neither of them are very useful.
The first post is just him answering Cheesecake's questions three, with a weird position completely against lurker lynching and a lot of jokes:
On November 26 2012 05:18 Munk-E wrote:Hello everyone! I am here. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
1. 3 before, and I think I've lost them all. TT 2. It's a dumb idea. Lurkers don't become suspicious unless they avoid direct questions. A townie would be just as likely to lurk day 1 as a red, since real life can get in the the way early on. Plus, if someone is lurking a suspicious amount, and they're mafia, their scum brethren would tell them to pick it up on their posting. 3. It's a biased question, you give us only one flavor of cake, but we have to compare it against an entire class of deserts? What are you trying to imply? That cheesecake is better than any type of pie? In your response you arrogantly dismiss pie. This could be a tactic to make every type of pie be seen as inferior to cheesecake, and that might taint the views of the rest of the players. You know who else trys to change the opinion of the players? Mafia do. Mr. Cheesecake is SCUM
This post could have been done by either alignment, but I would have expected a little more by the time he commented. In addition, this is about the definition of "forced casualness" (if anyone is still using that argument). The lurker lynching position is not very thought out. Yes, townies can lurk, but that doesn't make lynching them a "dumb idea".
His second (and final) post is a commentary on Oats:
On November 26 2012 06:18 Munk-E wrote:Okay, joking aside, I'd like to take a minute to look at oatsmaster, because at the very least, I think he's playing weird, and weird is noteworthy. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
By far the most important question
3) Pie. Or a Light Cheesecake.
1) 0. I am currently in another game
2) I think that we should lynch a lurker D1 yes. Here he says a day 1 lurker lynch is a good idea, which he elaborates on here. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. however, soon after that, he posts this. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him So, what can we make about this early contradiction. One option is what he said recently, that he was just trying to stir up discussion. This does make sense of this mess, since he doesn't really want to lynch lurkers, just scare them into talking. I don't feel this is the truth though, because he only claim this after he started getting accused because of his strange ways. Option 2, since he said he has never played a game before, he could just be bad. It seems to me, weather scum or townie, what he did was dumb. He's also doing that thing that noobs sometimes do, where you accuse and accuse until someone starts asking you what's up, and you go into hardcore defense mode. This seems most likely to me, which unfortunately doesn't tell us much about his alliance. Option 3: He is mafia and was trying to pin suspicion on Mr.CC. This may be the case, but he did it so poorly that he brought suspicion upon himself. What makes me think this might be the case is that even after he admitted to not having a case against CC, he voted for him anyways. Later, he has some really bullshit reasoning which right before he says this. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
OH YES FINALLY, you say why my behaviour is scummy. :D
My explanation is that his first 2 posts seem off. What do you want? Cheesecake posted less than 10 posts, how can you garner any evidence from that? Without any replies from CC, he posts this 40 minuites later. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote:LOL kickstart learning from the vets huh. there are like 4 pages of content, I challenge you to find a case out of that. A proper case that has scum reasons for certain posts. ok about cheesecake On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
For me:
1) this is my third, one game as mafia one as VT
2) Lynching a lurker d1 is good to me if no viable scum read presents itself. Also, we have no vig to take care of pesky lurkers otherwise.
3) Pie. Jk jk. This post looks like he is being light-hearted, especially with the Pie and Cheesecake question. I feel that it is an act, the post looks VERY deliberate in being casual. On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? Then here, a reason for people to be lurking is because we havent called them out. He basically says, I will lynch a lurker/anybody. Which is good reason to hop onto any bandwagon that is benefical for scum. Like lynching an inactive town/active but bad town It's weird to me, immediately after saying there isn't a case to be made, he makes a case. This may be from a mafia buddy trying to save his ass and giving him the best he could come up with about a case for CC. Something that may also be of note is that sonic death monkey essentially just took this point and elaborated on it later. They are the only 2 voting for CC. Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:The reason I'm asking all these questions and why Mr. Cheesecake's play makes me feel uneasy Part 1In XXIX: CC was scum and all uptight, just like he said in one of his responses itt. After the game, his scum buddies said he was a funny guy cracking a lot of jokes in the scum QT. It's quite obvious CC wasn't being himself in the actual XXIX game thread, the real CC isn't uptight. In XXX: CC was town and the complete opposite of uptight. It was obvious he was being his real self, ie what he had shown in the scum QT in XXIX. This complete change of meta was why I gave him a 100% town read in the obs QT. BUT this play style got him lynch. Cracking jokes and being a goof got him into a shitty situation which lead him to a weird VT claim and later a mislynch. What would one expect town CC to take away from this? He needs to lay off his goofy style or he risks getting mislynched. What would one expect scum CC to take away from this? He needs to be more of a goof, otherwise the difference in meta will give him away. If you compare this game to his town play in XXX, he's more serious business now. That would lead me to believe either a) he's town and has realized his style in XXIX didn't work and he needs to play a bit more "serious" or b) the reason he's playing closer to his scum meta is because he's scum. Now I agree with what Oats said, CCs initial posts in this thread come off as "forced casual". That is, b) is quite possible: He's scum, has realized he needs to emulate his town play style, but doesn't really succeed. Besides, by asking these questions, I really gave him the chance to give me the a) explanation, but he didn't. He even says it hasn't affected his town play at all, which I find weird considering how he crashed and burned in XXX. He says, however, that it has affected his scum mentality. The reason he knows may be because he's playing scum right now. Part 2When you play as scum, you really don't want to butt heads with the stronger players. When I was scum in XXVIII I soon came to realize it would be in my best interest to agree with DarthPunk and Z-Boson because they pursued their scum reads aggressively. Now maybe I'm full of myself, but having played 3 games I would like to believe I'm one of the DPs and ZBs of this game, a player you want to get along with if you're scum. That's why this post by CC makes uneasy: On November 26 2012 00:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay so just woke up. The Oats vote is pretty lulzy to me. On November 25 2012 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote:LOL kickstart learning from the vets huh. there are like 4 pages of content, I challenge you to find a case out of that. A proper case that has scum reasons for certain posts. ok about cheesecake Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
For me:
1) this is my third, one game as mafia one as VT
2) Lynching a lurker d1 is good to me if no viable scum read presents itself. Also, we have no vig to take care of pesky lurkers otherwise.
3) Pie. Jk jk. 1.) This post looks like he is being light-hearted, especially with the Pie and Cheesecake question. I feel that it is an act, the post looks VERY deliberate in being casual. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? 2.) Then here, a reason for people to be lurking is because we havent called them out. He basically says, I will lynch a lurker/anybody. Which is good reason to hop onto any bandwagon that is benefical for scum. Like lynching an inactive town/active but bad town <snip> I'm more concerned about Yamato right now. His posts amount to a bunch of one-liners that achieve nothing. Same goes for Helo, pretty blendy personalities at this point in time. FoS Yamato77FoS HeloKnightJust a bit of pressure, I'd like to hear some constructive posts from them. @AquaniumOn November 25 2012 14:57 Aquanim wrote:Sure, he's made all of four five posts so far so don't expect anything insightful. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 14:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes totally agree with Cheesecake.
only 5/9 are here, where are the rest On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him I really don't understand where your trepidations are coming from. You agree with me, but get scummy feelings from me? I'm not liking this. In the first quote Cheesecake took, Oatsmaster is agreeing with this post: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? which is pretty generically town-speech stuff from Mr. Cheesecake. I could well see Oatsmaster agreeing with the body of this message, BUT not liking the fact that Cheesecake is making speeches rather than poking people and looking for scum. (I'm taking a wild guess at what Oatsmaster's feeling was based on here.) And apart from Cheesecake's questions in his first post and contentless sniping at Oatsmaster since that's all there is. This post is extremely wish-washy to me. He basically takes a neutral stance and says that he can understand both sides of the argument. I'm confused as to his opinion. Do you not like the fact that he agreeing with me, and simultaneously gets a scum-feel? Or do you disagree with me? It is basically a carbon copy of my previous opinions/questions: On November 25 2012 19:15 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The first thing that stuck out to me was Helo just making a couple of short posts then disappearing (to enter again with another contentless post after he was called out for it). Yamato is making a decent amount of posts with no content and making some weird conclusions, such as. On November 25 2012 13:51 yamato77 wrote:
If we sheep oats and lynch cheesecake, and he flips town, at least our day 2 lynch is an easy decision. Which obviously isn't correct. He also seems worried about how he's percieved, asking Aqua about whether he's still uneasy about him. From my experience as scum you usually don't like being in the dark of how others percieve you. Not much to go on so far, but that was my initial reactions to the thread. <snip> On November 25 2012 21:37 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 14:57 Aquanim wrote:Sure, he's made all of four five posts so far so don't expect anything insightful. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 14:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes totally agree with Cheesecake.
only 5/9 are here, where are the rest On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him I really don't understand where your trepidations are coming from. You agree with me, but get scummy feelings from me? I'm not liking this. In the first quote Cheesecake took, Oatsmaster is agreeing with this post: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? which is pretty generically town-speech stuff from Mr. Cheesecake. I could well see Oatsmaster agreeing with the body of this message, BUT not liking the fact that Cheesecake is making speeches rather than poking people and looking for scum. (I'm taking a wild guess at what Oatsmaster's feeling was based on here.) And apart from Cheesecake's questions in his first post and contentless sniping at Oatsmaster since that's all there is. I don't really understand this post. What read did you end up with on CC and why? Being second on the ball to one of the stronger/more experienced players in this game is scummy. CC also kind of sided with me on the Oats issue, although his read is more on the null side. So yeah, I'm accusing him of cock-riding. FOS CheesecakeCheesecake is my best scum read right now, but at least he's around and actually contributing. I'm absolutely capable of switching to one of you lurkers out there if I find a decent reason. There's also plenty of time of Cheesecake to convince me he's not scum, so go for it. In conclusion, I feel like although he may just be dumb, he's more likely to be mafia than a random vote, however I don't feel confident enough in it to cast my vote on him yet.
He posts this after Oats has already been discussed a lot and repeats points that have already been said. One goal of the mafia is to continue discussing pointless things to waste time. In addition, he still hasn't provided opinions on any of the more recent "controversies". For some reason, no one has called him out yet (or mentioned him at all).
I'm not confident in yamato yet, but he's at least posted some opinions and backed them up. Right now, I'd rather a M-E lynch.
##Vote: Munk-E
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Votecount:
Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster,Sonic Death Monkey
Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart
Yamato77 (2):Mr. Cheesecake,Sonic Death Monkey
Munk-E (1):HeloKnight
Not voting (4):Aquanim,Jacob Strangelove,Munk-E,Yamato77
Currently Yamato77 is set to be lynched
If you see your (or another's) vote to be wrong, it would be kind to notify us.
roughly 25.5 hours remain
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11589 Posts
I don't like either of his posts any more than you do, much for the same reasons you listed, but I'm not sold on lynching him until I see how he responds.
I appreciate your input on me. I'll admit, I had bad feelings about Cheesecake before I posted that comment, which I intentionally decided not to post until other people came in. Perhaps now that makes me look like I'm jumping on a wagon, but I did mention very early on in the thread that I didn't like Cheesecake's topics of discussion.
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For the record, this game is plurality lynch: person with the most votes gets lynched.
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Right well I am going to go to sleep so won't be on for several hours, I am glad to see that there has been a decent amount of new discussion and hope to find more when I wake up and I will weigh in on everything then and try and find them scum after some well needed rest.
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I made that case so that you guys could see how bad of a case it was..
And it got bashed horrendously. Thanks for seeing my point of view.
Im still on the fence about Cheesecake because he hasnt actually posted any reads, just responded to people.
I am inclined to think that SDM is town because he made a longass post on CC.
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Ok I woke up, still reading stuff and checking stuff but just a couple of comments. Meta isn't a null read it's a slight read. Nothing should be a null read imo.
I also think SDM is town just because I agree with most of the stuff he says but until later in the game focus on town reads isn't the best (although personally I still like them) However there are a few things I want to check with yamato and others so I will get back to you.
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On November 25 2012 15:12 yamato77 wrote:
That is, between Aqua and I, the only other 2 people actively keeping up.
Ok comments on yamotos filter. This is brought up and if you check his filter all he was posting was one liners. In other words he wants to appear active when he wasn't really.
he mentioned he was asleep before that (the post people have discussed) which would mean he sleeps for about 11 hours to get to 02:00 my time. Then he waits three hours to post. (this is based of the timings in his filter. however. Give him an hour before bed and that's 10 hours and the possibility of him checking the forum earlier on the first day means he probably just woke up and didn't check for a while.
(while this may look pointless what I am saying is there is some validity for his sleeping story) Honestly I don't like yamotos yet and I want to see CC post more reads it's actually rather easy to defend yourself if that is all you are doing. need to look closer at helios and munkey doing this next.
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Hmm mostly a null read on helios playing kinda safe but contributing. Also something in this favor is asking other peoples opinions on other people. (a tactic that can often find scum if you ask scum what they think of other scum) Also good putting the pressure on munkey. (munkey needs to post more)
Feel free to draw my attention to anything in particular I have missed or you want my opinion on.
For now Munkey needs to contribute, he did have a nice long post that I disagreed with completely though. (well I found the sudden switch strange but the style was townie.) <-- in regards to his comments on oats.
Aquariam (although has his reasons drops in and out a lot)
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Yeah newbie players have a tendency to post 1 liners and such.
I am heartened by munkey's post because it showed that he actually took the time to read and analyse but I wonder if his scum buddies told him to do that because posting a 1 line late entry doesnt look good.
Yamato, You need to comment on the 2 votes on you and my vote on CC. Please do not be brief.
Jacob, for now, if you had to lynch, who would it be?
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If I had to lynch hmm, not aqua not enough info, same with munkey. Helios null and sonic and you are not in my picture at the moment.
CC Kick and yahomi.
if the lynch right now not cc he is active even if just in defending himself. Kick is rather active though I want to omgus him.
That kinda leaves yahamto not strong but by elimination it would be him.
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He is also in the not lurking zone, somewhere scum want to be. Maybe it's just my playstyle but I would never lurk as scum.
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11589 Posts
SDM's vote on me is based on information from a single post basically, which does not bode well for my opinion of him. Honestly if I am your top scumread because of a bunch of one-liners and a post where I give my negative opinion on someone you read as scum, you are doing something wrong.
CC's vote on me looks like scum trying to deflect attention onto a player receiving negative heat. Also, it would eliminate someone he sees as a threat, if he was scum, in that I haven't liked his play since the start of the game.
I'm tempted to vote Cheesecake with you, if your vote is actually serious. However, if I get lynched today, I would 100% go after CC and SDM tomorrow because of the way they have parked their votes on me.
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11589 Posts
But I have to to work work and then after that I have to sleep. Hopefully in the morning between those things I can check the thread and convince you guys not to mislynch.
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Lets go with the association case now.
If CC is scum, yamato isnt, if yamato is scum, CC isnt.
How would CC see you as a threat? arnt me and SDM more of a threat at that point of time?
How many times do I have to repeat that my vote is serious
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On November 26 2012 12:42 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lets go with the association case now.
If CC is scum, yamato isnt, if yamato is scum, CC isnt.
How would CC see you as a threat? arnt me and SDM more of a threat at that point of time?
How many times do I have to repeat that my vote is serious
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Day one association case. (you're learning from me though lol)
Often mafia will hate each other early so they can say "but we hated each other"
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Why would yamato actually make a proper point about CC's vote if both are scum?
yeah really early for that, just wanted to throw it out there.
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That is true and it is a good point... however when I was scum I set out to bus everyone I could. (not common though) oh and don't worry about it being to early for that I love association cases.
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EPT
