EPTyes that's what he said. Instead of protecting debears or myself, who imo were better jailkeeper targets.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 8
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Rad
United States935 Posts
yes that's what he said. Instead of protecting debears or myself, who imo were better jailkeeper targets. | ||
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Rad
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great, waiting for better stuff on clarity. I feel I was a good target because a) I'm town and b) I like my style of scum hunting and feel it should be scary to people (if I'm on the right track with my thoughts, that is). My not being NK'd prompted my FoS on obzy and yourself due to what I've already said about scum not wanting to NK someone who thinks they're town (like we saw last game). | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:34 Rad wrote: @djo great, waiting for better stuff on clarity. I feel I was a good target because a) I'm town and b) I like my style of scum hunting and feel it should be scary to people (if I'm on the right track with my thoughts, that is). My not being NK'd prompted my FoS on obzy and yourself due to what I've already said about scum not wanting to NK someone who thinks they're town (like we saw last game). EBWOP: Also, let me point out that more people considered me town than considered debears town. | ||
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I've been thinking djo was cop since after we had our back and forth for 3 hours after I FoS'd him (thinking he got a red read on clarity, meaning clarity is scum or was framed). This explained his bad arguments on clarity to me (confirmation bias, he thought clarity was scum, then he checked and look he's red! he must have been right all along!), and that's why I told da0ud that i had changed my mind on djo. I don't know what to think about his claim yet, but I'll probably believe it if no one counter-claims. | ||
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Can you clarify what you're asking? | ||
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You think it's pretty likely, do you? Can you explain why? | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:26 Alsn wrote: Because it just fits? I'm still going to see if there's anything inherently contradictory about it. But the fact remains my suspicions against Cheese were similar to what I felt about you at the time. You were extremely unwilling to vote for anyone of Cheese, debears, Clarity. Two of them are now confirmed to be town, and the last has long been suspected of being scum. @alsn I wasn't convinced of who I should vote. I didn't want to vote clarity, for the reasons I stated in the first list I made. I wanted to vote debears but no one else did, so I was questioning myself (also I was considering since he's the most active, I shouldn't vote him). I was also reading sylver as scum but there was no lynch potential on him. So I had clarity (who I was leaning town) or ___? Then the cheese incident happened and everything went into chaos. Because of that chaos, I got 4 reads: 1. Cheese town - his reasons for claiming the first time were clear to me, but he didn't keep it under wraps. He kept spitting it out like VTs didn't notice, and then he straight up spelled it out to debears. This looked genuine to me because I understood his thought process. 2. debears town - his interactions with cheese and his agreeing with sylver being suspicious for not voting him when he still had a chance to be lynched, those things made me realize he was town (VT due to the interactions with cheese) 3. clarity probably town - also due to his interactions with cheese, not as strong, I thought he might be blue but I was leaning VT due to him claiming he PM'd the host. 4. da0ud - town, balls of steel to jump on debears, if debears gets lynched there he and cheese are prime suspects for next 2 lynches. If he's scum, he knows debears is town, so voting cheese is much safer because everyone else is already doing it. This is a main reason I find sylver scummy, for not jumping to debears when he had a chance (because if scum, he knows debears is town, and him staying on cheese is much safer). | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:59 Alsn wrote: Now that's either just a straight up lie. Or you have a very weird definition of what town should do. You are now claiming that you were unsure of who to vote leading up to the lynch, but in point 2) you say you "realised he was town" yet you still voted for him? That makes no sense. I'm thinking you're just lying through your teeth here. You wanted your vote to sit on debears because you wanted to make it look like you believed the people who were wary of a Cheese lynch since you knew he would flip town. @alsn He was scum hunting when he had a chance to be lynched. I think that's super townie. He wasn't trying to divert attention from himself possibly getting lynched, he was pointing out scummy behavior at a good time when that information was important. It was important to get sylver's response to that asap because it didn't make sense for him to not jump to his biggest scum tell. I threw the idea out there and he confirmed it was suspicious at that moment when it might be bad for him to point it out. I think scum debears ignores my comment about sylver and possibly revisits it later if sylver is town. The sylver thing happened after I had my vote on debears, and is the point where it all fit together for me. His interactions with cheese + the sylver comment had me convinced. I didn't switch back to cheese at that point because I still had a higher town read on cheese than debears, due to debears trying to blue hunt which was confusing at that point. | ||
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At the point I voted for debears, I thought cheese was town, and I still had a scum read on debears. I did not think his interactions with cheese alone necessarily confirmed him VT to me. When da0ud came in and voted debears, I saw that as a better candidate than cheese because I still considered him scum. It was the sylver comment that pushed it over the edge and everything made sense to me. Even then, I had a higher town read on cheese due to debear's blue hunting being confusing as hell, so I stuck with my vote. | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:13 Alsn wrote: Now you're deliberately misunderstanding me. You lied because: You say you didn't want to vote for debears because you thought debears was town. Yet you voted for debears. You voted for someone you at the time claim you thought was town @alsn Can you please point out where I said I didn't want to vote for debears because I thought debears was town? I see myself saying the exact opposite here: On November 07 2012 04:17 Rad wrote: I wasn't convinced of who I should vote. I didn't want to vote clarity, for the reasons I stated in the first list I made. I wanted to vote debears but no one else did, so I was questioning myself (also I was considering since he's the most active, I shouldn't vote him). I was also reading sylver as scum but there was no lynch potential on him. So I had clarity (who I was leaning town) or ___? | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:19 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Rad You had town reads on both so you voted for the lesser townread? Why didn't you switch to me or Djo? After the sylver comment, I had town reads on both. I voted for debears before that. I did not want to switch to cheese because debears' blue hunting still had me baffled, so he was the lesser of the 2 town reads. I didn't switch to you because I told cheese straight up I don't feel comfortable voting you (had a town read on you). I had a scum read on debears at the point where I switched to him. I had a town read on djo (see my list), but the scenario never presented itself to vote for him so not sure why you're bringing him up. Cheese said he'd vote for djo right then if he had a chance (an answer to a question I asked him) and if cheese jumped, I might have just given cheese all my confidence and jumped because in my mind he was confirmed VT. Note my town read on djo was "djo doesn't make any sense and is just being djo." Remember I helped get him lynched last game when he was town and I simply don't know how to read him. | ||
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Because of the chaos, I got those 4 reads. The chaos includes sylver's lack of switching to debears, and debear's noticing I had pointed it out and continuing his scum hunt instead of holding off. I do not say anywhere that I thought debears was town when I voted him. | ||
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I read clarity as town, somewhat confirmed by the cheese incident but not completely. I read him as town before that, but I was convinced more after it. Because i truly believe clarity is town, I was trying to figure out why djo would be so hardcore on getting him lynched today, like it's his one and only mission. I started to read djo as town due to this, and then i realized maybe he's cop and got a red read on clarity. A town clarity is pretty much the perfect frame target, because most people want him dead. Tell me, was there a better target for a cop to check than clarity? Is there a better target to frame than clarity? The possibility just made sense to me. Of course, clarity could be scum, djo could be a cop, and he could have gotten a legit red read there. Anyway, the whole situation convinced me djo was a cop, not that clarity was necessarily town, but I was pretty sure cop djo got a red read on clarity. | ||
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On November 07 2012 07:14 Alsn wrote: @Rad What do you think about Clarity's case against Obzy? Specifically, what do you think about Clarity making that case on Obzy? Does it make him look more town? or less? @Alsn I don't think I agree with you on sylver's moves during the cheese situation seeming town-motivated, but I'll try to consider it some more so I don't just confirmation bias my way against him due to only my initial read at that time. I think clarity's points about Obzy's apologies are interesting. It's true, he's been extremely apologetic which pushes me to feel bad for him. I don't know how to read that yet because I feel like I was pretty apologetic last game as well, and that was my first game, so i can sympathize. I don't particularly think his other points are great but they're not terrible either. All in all I think the apology thing is an important thing to think about because he really has overdone it. I look forward to some sort of case from obzy on clarity, because if obzy's town, I think he seems like a smart guy who will make a smart case, so if there's a case to be had on clarity maybe he can make it. | ||
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On November 07 2012 07:41 Alsn wrote: Rad I already agree with the fact that Clarity's case against Obzy isn't necessarily wrong. But what I wanted to know was how you thought Clarity making a case on Obzy reflected on Clarity's likelihood of being town/scum. I can't think of any reason he would or wouldn't make the case on obzy that isn't based purely on WIFOM. Null tell. He made a case on obzy, great, I can see town or scum doing that, can't you? Coincidentally it will cause djo to go even crazier against us since I've only FoS'd 3 people since d2 started: obzy, djo, and sylver. | ||
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On November 07 2012 07:40 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Rad and Alsn How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far. Let me get back to you on that. I'm not ignoring your question, I just want to think it through. Just wanted to let you know since I'm here replying to other stuff before it. On November 07 2012 07:55 Obzy wrote: (I'm writing in notepad so I don't accidentally delete anything and can save it if I head home halfway through) - Rad, do you legitimately think that Djo's claim is fake? Or are you saying that your two targets are Sylver and myself? (Which is fine, I'm writing my Clar case to help convince you otherwise.) Because I see no reason to disbelieve Djo atm. Obzy, when did I say his claim was fake? I said I was thinking he was cop and the claim surprised me. I've also said his claim is probably real unless someone counter claims. | ||
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On November 07 2012 07:15 Obzy wrote: I'm glad you are posting a case on me, specifically. Heh. Being called out in general gives a clear indication that my posting will be listened to when I respond, but getting called out by you makes my trust of Djo's JK claim increase, since he was been beating his head against you for hours this morning. You posting a case that I know is false makes me believe more in his case, which helps me trust his claim and innocence. A team composed of him and Sylver was only something I mused about if you were town. Maybe you're town and your case against me is just flat-out incorrect, you're just misguided. That's possible. But I think you think that too; you didn't vote. You clearly say "Obzy is Mafia" in fancy red highlighting and you do not vote. >_> @Obzy Regarding the bolded above, are you saying that you think clarity is town because his lack of voting suggests that he probably isn't sure enough about his case enough to vote you? Or am I reading your statement there wrong? I don't see why clarity would think his case is misguided and not vote if he's scum. Or are you claiming some sort of scum slip from him not voting? Mainly "but I think you think that too" is super confusing. If you could clarify what you meant there that would be great. | ||
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On November 07 2012 07:40 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Rad and Alsn How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far. So, basically I get a null read on his reply to your case. I need to think more about if the apologies are a tell or not but there's nothing he could have said about them that would have meant anything one way or the other. The question I gave to him above concerns me. I'm not sure how to read it though so I've asked for him to clarify it. Not sure how to take the newbie help advice from him. I don't know that it fits the situation. Basically I think it means that when you're making a case on someone, you don't need to try to convince them they're scum - they already know if they are or aren't - you need to convince the rest of town. But that doesn't really apply to your case against him, and he acknowledges that fact, so not sure why he brought that up. I guess he really just doesn't care about your case on him unless it gains traction? If he thought you were town, maybe he'd care and want to convince you? Seems reasonable as a town, but also could be something a scum would say so null tell I suppose. | ||
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On November 07 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote: @ Rad I would like you to answer my previous questions for you, especially the one with the reference to a possible Clarity PM to marv and the one where I ask you to summarize your scum hunting D1/N1. By the way, the fact that you are using the information that you were not NKed to switch your focus to the people that you were having townreads on in a list that you made ages ago is utter bullshit. Because there is no way for you to know why you not being NKed. Absolutely no way ! Seriously, what was that shit ? Do you personally believe that Clarity is blue ? I will not spend time summarizing my scum hunting d1/n1. If you want to make a case on me, you spend the time, but that would be time poorly spent because I'm town. Remind me what question you had about a clarity PM to marv and if I haven't answered it, and I think it's an appropriate question to answer, I'll do that. Shit happened at night, debears got killed, I instantly had a read. I wanted to put pressure right then and there, so that's what I did. What happened from it? You and me talked for hours. Obzy has broken out of his shell. Not much from sylver yet. My original ideas for why I FoS'd you may be terrible and conspiracy theorist like (or maybe they're spot on, we'll find out soon  ), but you can't deny they got conversation going.I believe clarity is VT. I will be surprised if he's blue, but I will say that there was a moment during the chaos that I read him as blue. ATM I believe VT. I wouldn't be blown the fuck away if he's scum, but I definitely read him town right now. | ||
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On November 07 2012 08:59 da0ud wrote: Morning just catching up with the thread (only bottom of page 64 so far) One quick reaction to your post before I forget. I personally think that if we had confirmed all the VTs it would only have made sense for scum to kill them at night and not the blue. They want to keep uncertainty and don't want to be outnumbered by VTs. I think this is as well the reason Debears got killed cause he is the one who got the most genuine reaction to CC claim. @da0ud What do you think about people claiming right now? Djo seems to think clarity should claim, and probably thinks I should to. Is that a good or bad idea in your opinion for the current state of the game? | ||
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