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@Clarity
On November 04 2012 16:22 Clarity_nl wrote:
/snip
All the answers to the questions I asked can be used later, and I urge everyone to look at who answered their question and who hasn't.
/snip
You make 2 statements here.
1. The answers to your questions can be used later (I agree)
2. You urge everyone to look at who answered their questions and who hasn't (implying not answering is scummy)
Considering you're going to be making a case on djo, can you explain the importance of your #2 suggestion? Seems like if you truly thought it was an important thing to note, you'd be more interested in alsn and cheese over djo and debears? With your statements, you spread suspicion across 5 different people and then center in on someone who doesn't apply to your second point.
On November 04 2012 17:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
Top 3 choices in my eyes are Debears, Sylver and you.
As for people who haven't answered my questions: Alsn, Cheese, Sylver.
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@Clarity
On November 05 2012 02:11 Djodref wrote:
@ sylverfyre
Yeah, I live and work in South Korea so you can check that it is indeed 2 am in the banner of this thread.
Was it a general statement ? I thought it was a reference at you and debears going into OMGUS mode just before your post.
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On November 05 2012 02:41 Djodref wrote:
So it means that you have confirmation bias against me. You don't want to give me a chance to defend myself, you have already made up your mind and you want to see me dead.
It means that you are now 100% convinced that I am scum (in the case where you are town) which is stupid because I am not scum and townies should always keep their mind open or that you are scum yourself.
Lol djo... you realize you just said "your argument is stupid because I'm not scum."
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On November 05 2012 02:54 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 02:49 Djodref wrote:On November 05 2012 02:44 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 02:41 Djodref wrote:
So it means that you have confirmation bias against me. You don't want to give me a chance to defend myself, you have already made up your mind and you want to see me dead.
It means that you are now 100% convinced that I am scum (in the case where you are town) which is stupid because I am not scum and townies should always keep their mind open or that you are scum yourself. Lol djo... you realize you just said "your argument is stupid because I'm not scum." Honestly I would be pissed off if Clarity is town and do not want to discuss his case against me beforehand because he is afraid that I could talk my way out of the lynch. I don't understand why a townie would want to see me dead so much. If you are town you can talk your way out of a lynch regardless. It's not like I would've posted my case an hour beforehand, right about now is when I would've posted it. I am currently working on a different case while also answering questions, so please bear with me. I will keep djo's case on hand in case I get lynched. I will post it before the deadline if it seems I'll die. Otherwise saving it for D2
As we saw from last game, djo is terrible at talking himself out of a lynch when town. If he's town this game, I can understand his frustration. Also it doesn't really make sense for you to hold off on everything unless:
1. (if you're town) You're convinced he's scum and want to make sure you hit him with everything you've got
2. (if you're scum) You want to make it really difficult for him to defend.
You say you're not convinced he's scum. Why wait to hit him with everything you've got? Or at this point, why wait on posting your djo case? Your thoughts could help town make a better decision if you think you've got a good case on djo.
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@debears
Since he's asleep right now, I'll answer for him. Djo is from france but living in south korea. He pointed that out last game:
On October 30 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:- I'm Abel the Vanilla Townie. I have been given this name because I'm French !
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@sylver and @clarity
Can you each please define fluff in your own words? I need to understand exactly what you're talking about when you use that word in this context. I didn't really care about it before, I cared more about debear's request to alsn (which seemed like a huge waste of time), but now that you're both using it as part of a case on debears I need to determine if I agree or disagree with you.
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On debears and fluff
Alright, I've looked back into the debears fluff concerns. I started with sylver's first post calling debears out on fluff and looked at debears' posts before that. I'm not concerned with anything after that, at this point, because his posts before then is what triggered the fluff talking point.
I feel pretty good with his content up to that point (~66 posts I think, I may have miss counted). I don't feel like it was a ton of fluff (using clarity's definition). debears tends to respond quickly to people addressing a point or two at a time, so he simply ends up with a big filter comprised mostly of smaller posts. I glanced through his XVIII game (was town) and even there, most of his posts are shorter and addressing a specific point. He seems pretty consistent in that throughout the 3 games. His posts almost always spawn additional discussion and that's good for town. He had a few joke posts in there that were clearly useless, but those aren't difficult to ignore and don't really affect the readability of his filter. Also, the theme of this game was bound to produce some of the joke posts by debears and cheese, so that's forgivable.
In the end, I don't think this is a great point on the case vs debears. It seems like an incredibly easy "scum tell" sort of thing to just throw out there that instantly becomes a talking point and may never end. It's not attacking a particular statement or logical thought process, it's just saying "you write shitty content that clutters up the thread and that's scummy." That's fine if he's actually doing that, but after looking through his posts, I don't feel he was.
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On November 05 2012 05:23 Alsn wrote:
@Rad
You've been asking a lot of questions lately, but I can't find many(any?) of your reads, would you mind sharing your stronger ones?
@Alsn
I'll just share them all. I had been planning on doing it soon anyway since lynch time is approaching.
Clarity - leaning town. I don't know what it is but I get townie vibes from him. I'd also note here that I got townie vibes from cheese all last game, and we see that was a garbage read. With so many people focusing on a clarity bandwagon atm, maybe I'm wrong.
Obzy - my biggest town read. Smart posts, smart reads, very useful so far. I want to get some more from him on sylver since I don't agree with his vote on clarity atm.
Alsn - leaning town, maybe second biggest town read. He's been very useful and pushing good discussion.
Djo - leaning town. He answers my questions without hesitation and is pushing conversation. His "scumslips", well, I have to refer to nack's thoughts last game as he was spot on then and that same reasoning makes sense this game.
debears - null. I'd be leaning scum on him if people agreed with my points on him but they've mostly been ignored, so I'll assume people think they're bad. Also, I feel like he's been really useful for town overall, regardless of my concerns with him. Obzy seems pretty sure he's town so as my biggest town read, I feel the urge to take his thoughts as genuine.
sylver - leaning scum, but don't feel great about voting him. I think he might be the best vote candidate at this point but I feel terrible about it because I'm not convinced yet.
cheese - null. I wish he had more pressure on him but I'm not sure what to push. It seems like no one else has a good idea for that either because he's skating by untouched.
da0ud - null. I hope he gets a chance to jump on some before the lynch. If anyone is lurking it's him. I need to read over his content again to see if I feel he's worthy of a policy lynch or not.
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On November 05 2012 06:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:@RadI liked how you had that townie read on me last game  . I think you had that read because I was playing very neutral (no strong ultra-mega reads) and using logical points. Is Obzy doing that this game? To you, does he seem like me in the previous game?
On November 05 2012 06:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
ebwop: Is Clarity doing that this game*
No, I feel like Clarity is putting himself out there more than you did last game. You were very safe attacking djo because everyone thought he was scum. Though I don't agree with his fluff argument, it seems sincere, and really the whole fluff argument is entirely subjective (which is why I thought it would get dropped early, but it's stuck around).
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On November 05 2012 06:26 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:19 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 06:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:@RadI liked how you had that townie read on me last game . I think you had that read because I was playing very neutral (no strong ultra-mega reads) and using logical points. Is Obzy doing that this game? To you, does he seem like me in the previous game? On November 05 2012 06:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
ebwop: Is Clarity doing that this game* No, I feel like Clarity is putting himself out there more than you did last game. You were very safe attacking djo because everyone thought he was scum. Though I don't agree with his fluff argument, it seems sincere, and really the whole fluff argument is entirely subjective (which is why I thought it would get dropped early, but it's stuck around). Rad, something I would like to point out. Did clarity start off the game by putting himself out there? Or did it take 2 cases on him to start actually taking stances?
Even if this is true, I can't really read into it. I myself don't really take strong stances at the beginning. He was acting very townie to me in the early game, trying to get us out of the policy lynch discussion asap, being active by asking questions and responding to them. Just because he wasn't super aggressive from the start doesn't really tell me anything. His timing on putting himself out there fits with having enough information to start doing so.
His early vote on da0ud was weak but i could read it either way, townie or scum, so null. More like an unneeded pressure vote than anything.
I dunno, the more I look through his content the more he seems townie to me =/ Like, townie who's trying, succeeding at some things but failing at others due to poor reasoning, and then cases are built around his failures.
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On November 05 2012 07:33 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
I don't think there's a way for me to comment on cheese without screwing myself over. I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1, but people clearly think so since it's the lynchpin (lol) of the cases on me.
How would commenting on cheese screw you over?
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Please excuse my silence. I'm considering Mr. Cheesecake atm.
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Cheese, I've realized you were claiming that, but WHY? What's your motivation to do that at this point in the game?
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Cheese, why would you claim VT this early?
Why would you confirm clarity as VT?
You realize if you're right, you're dropping blue targets for mafia NK.
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@debears are you suggesting the scum are retarded? How would they have not noticed? I didn't want to bring it up at all once I noticed his claim, and it immediately made me suspicious of him, but everyone suddenly went all stupid so I wanted to put an end to it. No one should be claiming shit right now!
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On November 05 2012 09:03 debears wrote:
Ok. Let's try this
Who didn't know about everyone having the role pm?
Wouldn't that out every VT and be extremely anti town?
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On November 05 2012 09:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Actually, it would make the list of people who aren't town a hell of a lot smaller.
What's to stop scum from claiming VT? VT are the only people who didn't know about this.
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@debears
what are we waiting for?
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@cheese
If you are VT, what REASON did you want to be outted? That gives scum 1 less person to try to blue snipe. With your line of reasoning, I'd imagine you should have done something more subtle if you were trying to get all the VTs to notice you? But you just spelled it out and then when clarity jumped in, you claimed he was VT too. How does all of this HELP town?
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@obzy
You around? Going to reconsider your vote or are you happy with it?
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EPT
