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On October 18 2012 14:25 Hopeless1der wrote:I've finally gotten through Austin's case on MMT and I also reread through MMT's djodref case and his defense of me. Ultimately, I'm currently more town on MMT but unwilling to support a lynch on austin today. I read da0ud as scummy and I also don't think he's a prime candidate for any upcoming NK's, whereas Austin, MMT, VE are all significantly more likely to get taken out by scum (assuming they aren't scum themselves, duh). Lynching da0ud is a better longterm plan for town imo as it cleans out sandroba/ET's read on him and I think it will narrow our reads a lot more than say lynching MMT or Austin. Yes, its scummy to do things for information alone, but then again, why was ON lynched instead of sandroba? People (not me) felt they would be able to tell sandroba from sandroba. Can anyone in this game say the same of da0ud? I'm revising my votes so that MMT and Austin get my 6/7 spots. I don't want either lynched today because MMT has started to put down some serious effort into the thread (scum motivated or not) and Austin, while tunneling, is still known to post walls of text from time to time. There is also the fact that VE has just replaced in and has yet to properly sit down and take a good look at this game I think. 1-da0ud 2-djodref 3-kushm4sta 4-VisceraEyes 5-Thrawn2112 6-Mementoss 7-Austinmcc 8-Hopeless1der djodref is up there because in isolation, he's a scummier looking player, but I feel I'm really forcing any connections I make between him and other players. Since I want to hold off on MMT/Austin, after da0ud I'm ranking in the order of who I would care least if they were to go missing. I don't think kush or VE are going to be anywhere close to getting lynched, and I may need to move djodref around to have a better shot at da0ud.
Really tired, so I'll lay out the short version of why I want da0ud before I go to sleep: - Page 2 of his filter - Flipflops and Loss of Conviction
- sandroba and EchelonTee read him as scum
- His wtf thrawn/thrawn reads for little to no reasoning
- He had "great" plans for the potato, but never actually got the damned thing
- ON could have been trying to save him by lastminute voting djodref
- Suspiciously posts a scum->town ladder before the lynch mechanic is revealed. This just seemed too coincidental to me
I disagree with you about daoud but I understand your motivations. I'm pretty sure he is going to be a mislynch and that we are probably going to end up in mylo because of this.
Regarding all the stuff about moving people around in the list and so on, I think that's why we should better run our own majority lynch system for this round. I'm quite disappointed that nobody wanted to do it.
By the way
##Vote VE
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On October 11 2012 00:17 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 00:06 kushm4sta wrote:
metaread on momentoss: he is this dumb as town I know that from liquid city. I think I've been suspicious of townMementoss in every game I've played with him, something he does always gives me a mafia read on him.However, he's not dumb as town. I don't care if you're sober or high or on PCP while playing this game. I found it tremendously difficult in LC to wade through all your posting to find the bits that I thought were well-reasoned or interesting or could give me an actual read on you. I'm all for silliness in these games, but if it's just constant in every post then it's going to hamstring your effectiveness as town because people either won't pay attention to you or won't bother to pick out the good points you make from among the bad.
austinmcc is well aware of his bias toward Mementoss. The way he's tunneling now is indicative of an agenda imo. I feel like if he were town, this would factor in more and he'd be less sure of his read on Mementoss.
Think about it. If townMementoss is always suspicious to austin, then why would he say "he's not dumb as town"? It seems to me that someone I consistently think does anti-town things as town, I'd think that person is dumb. It just doesn't even make sense - it's like a weak way to buddy up Mementoss early on. And then he goes full on tunnel-mode on 'toss today?
I wasn't here for all the vote-stuff D1. I was kinda following along, but I was being obliterated in Liquid City at the time. And in the name of transpareny, I've mostly skimmed D1 as a result and looked at voting summaries in the following cycles. Not a whole lot of it pertains to austin, but the manner in which he voted was scummy as shit imo. Selling votes? And did you guys read this?
On October 14 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 03:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin are your votes for ON more because you think he's the scummier candidate, or because you are more afraid of sandroba being town and you wouldnt want to lose a town sandroba?
IMO sandroba is scummier than ON, but I am also a coward and I have no problems with a policy lynch... and when you think about it, ON is the perfect policy lynch candidate if there ever was one. I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them.
Not only is he wishywashy as fuck for the whole thing, but he even factors me in, someone not even playing to justify his indecision. Give me a BREAK.
Yeah guys, austin is scum. But that does remind me.
On October 18 2012 06:35 austinmcc wrote:
VE, when you catch up or do something, I'd like your thoughts on the following:
(1) Why sandroba N1?
(2) Why ET N2?
(3) Do those NKs tell you anything about the identities of the remaining mafia?
(4) Mementoss or Mementoss or Mementoss?
1) Because sandroba was very obviously and unquestionably town and is routinely able to decimate scumteams - but take that for what it's worth..the word of someone who replaced into the game late. Sand has a distinct scum meta that he was very obviously not playing this game. Obviously a smart guy like Sandroba is aware of how to subvert his meta, but that doesn't stop him from NOT doing so anytime he rolls scum (to my chagrin in Liar Game...)
2) ET is less obvious, but I'd have to say that for whatever reason, scum either wanted town to believe something that he said before he died, or wanted to make town believe something about ET that he couldn't protest because he's dead. ET isn't really known for his ability to nail scum, but he's no slouch. It could be for any number of reasons.
3) Obviously they tell me that there's someone who's played with Sandroba - or is aware enough of his reputation to know what to do with a townSandroba. They also tell me that at least one remaining scum member (possible the one in charge, probably the one I was just talking about) likes to play games with town. It tells me that there's someone relatively experienced on the scumteam.
4) I agree with others' assessment of his play - that his early contributions were solid enough, that he dropped of in activity (corroborated, I confirmed him in Liquid City and he didn't do shit) but came back looking just as townie if not more so (imo).
I hope that's been helpful brudda. Now swing.
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sup thrawnscum.
how are you this evening?
woke up in the middle of the night. going back to bed but I just thought I'd comment of what you said.
me write 1 liners without reasoning? well that is a huge misrepresentation. I have a rebuttal post of mmts attack on djodref.
It's not the length of his posts that make him not scum exactly. It's the length and tone of a certain type of post.
Jacob wrote long posts, but they were just him rambling filter analysis. Djodref will out of no where make paragraph long posts sharing his thoughts about what is currently going on in the thread. He seems COMFORTABLE sharing whatever is on his mind whenever.
His filter reads like town ignoring his long cases. Read through it, it really does.
So I'm currently so full of shit I have to be scum? I'm sorry but what have I done to make you angry? And give me an example of where I don't give my reasons.
Who do you want to lynch thrawn? Stop responding to djos stupid questions and start talking about your topscumread, whoever you think that is atm.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 10 2012 19:31 Djodref wrote:
I totally second Thrawn's last post. On October 16 2012 13:31 Djodref wrote:
You better have a perfect case on thrawn and good explanations because right now I feel the need to read your filter again. And it is not a pleasant task. On October 17 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:Please listen and trust Thrawn, he is my biggest town read atm. On October 17 2012 09:32 Djodref wrote:
1)Hopeless
2)Hiro
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)thrawn
8)djodref
On October 17 2012 22:05 Djodref wrote:
Thrawn has made a mistake in his last two posts, it was supposed to be a correction for him but it is useful for everybody regarding the present discussion.
On this last one it seems weird that he'd say I made a mistake, shouldn't a town player be more suspicious of those types of mistakes?
Djodref has had my back against kush, he's always had me as his most townish read, he tells everyone to trust me.... even if he thinks I'm town why would he feel the need to tell everyone to trust my opinion on things? As if I'm some perfect scumhunter? There's also countless other times I didn;t quote where he name drops me as the most townie person ever. Whenever he talks to me, I never get the feeling that he is the slightest bit wary of my responses... aren't town supposed to be suspicious of everything?
I appreciate all the kind words but really it just makes me suspicious of you when you are buddying up to me the whole game.
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kush I'm gonna ignore you so that I don't end up wasting my time. I have no reason to get into a pissing contest with you right now, there's no way I'm being lynched D3. I'm not gonna let you tell me to stop scumhunting
inb4 omg thrawn scum
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I don't know I guess it's because I'm still new and I need someone who I can trust. Last game I've had a coach but now I'm just by myself with some scary guys 
I've never played with any of you except Kush but I've watched your newbie games, I really liked them (so I wanted to join) and I liked your town meta. I think I am better at townreads than scumreads right now (debears scum -> town, shady scum -> town, sandro scum -> town, prplhz scum -> town) and I've got the same kind of feeling when I read your filter than when I've read your previous games.
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Right now, a lot of my thoughts on the game hinge on my read on Austin, and my read on Austin mostly hinges on his vote sharing D1. For reference, here are the problems I have with it:
On October 17 2012 15:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
As for austin.... bleh. I've played 1 game with him (town austin) and I've obsed a couple of his town games and he just seemed so much more straightforward and useful than he's being in this game. His word count is still really high but his post just seem way fluffier than what I'd come to expect from him. Also I still can't get over the vote sharing thing from D1. I can not understand how any town player would do that.... first of all that means that you don't trust your own judgement which I don't think that'd be the case with a town austin, and it also means that you have almost confirmed town reads in the people you're giving the votes to. He did it on D1... could he really have been so sure that kush and I were town at that point? Also, at the time he made the offer I believe kush was strongly in favor of lynching sandroba, and I was on the fence but I'd been the main person pushing sand's case all game. I am not convinced that town austin would have shared votes like that.
And here's his justification for doing it:
On October 18 2012 03:32 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:20 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin tell me about your vote sharing at the beginning... just go into detail about exactly why you decided to do it I had a bunch of votes left. I wanted to get the most out of them that I could. Just putting them on a candidate is nice, but I wanted to DO something with them, make them work for town. I figured sharing them is one way to draw more thoughts/reads out, and to see how people use them. So, I want to give some votes away, and I want to do it in a way that gets information. I'll give out votes in exchange for reads. A town read, a scum read. That's a nice balance, and if I give any votes to scum it forces them to call someone townie, which is kind of nice. D1, as part of this weird system, I don't expect scum to call a scumbuddy townie, because they don't know wtf I'm doing. I figure they'll be less likely to try to manipulate what I'm doing, more likely to have to give some real reads for fear I'm up to something. But I still don't want to give votes to scum. So I need some kind of criteria to determine who I want votes from. Best way to not give votes to scum (from the information I had)? Give em to townreads. You seemed townie, and had been relatively vocal on some players, but you were pretty caught up in the people actually in R3 and R4. By giving votes to you, I forced you to look at a broader scope of players, at the whole game, and make some reads on players who were already safe. kush both looked relatively townie to me and...I want to encourage good posting. I much prefer Looney Lynching kush to Liquid City kush. In part, I gave votes to him to encourage the change in posting. Call it promoting a readable thread, call it promoting a good town atmosphere, whatever. kush was also mostly concerned with R3 and R4, so again, I wanted people to look beyond those rounds and de-theme the game, play like it were more normal and everyone was at play. So I both was trying to get two town reads to look at the broader game, to not limit themselves to just R3 and R4 players (no way did all of our scum make it that far). And I wanted to see what your reads would be AND what you'd do with the votes. That felt like a much better use of my votes than dropping them ALL on a single player, when it was lurker vs. maybe-town-sandroba-who-isn't-doing-much. Neither person was super scummy to me, like I said. So I'd rather make my votes work for town in a different way.
Anyone want to weigh in on the vote sharing?
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Yeah I will...it was a blatant and shameless attempt to abdicate responsibility for his votes D1. Obviously he waves the "Generates Discussion" flag, but at what cost? Scum basically get free use of his votes for the low low price of some sweet nothings and a loose promise of sincerity.
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I don't have too much of an issue with the actual reasons he gave for wanting to share his "extra votes," I'm just kinda amazed that any town player would have "extra votes" in the first place.
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That's kinda what I mean - why wasn't he using his "extra votes" to vote for who he thought was scum among the available candidates? It's basically just forced consolidation at that point. But he leaves that open for everyone else to decide - town AND scum. Now, I'm not saying that I think you and Kush are automatically scum for taking him up on the offer...verily, if I had a strong enough scumread and someone is giving votes away for me saying so, sure I'll take him up on it. But that's not the point - the point is that scum were able to do the same thing to try and save their scumbuddy. Clearly they didn't, but that only smacks of austinScum anyway doesn't it?
Not to mention the fact that he's all about this whole "whatever I've got my one scumread, that's all that matters" thing he's on now which is a playstyle which varies WILDLY from the haphazard vote-sharing, apathetic style of D1. Why the change in style? Especially considering we lynched SCUM on D1!
It all just feels wrong, and he's by far my best read.
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I'm going to address Mementoss case right now. Globally, I think it's a good case but some points are wrong. I hope I can explain you my motives. My comments are in red in the spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +On October 18 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: Djodref Part I: Round III Hopeless vs ONShow nested quote +On October 11 2012 00:44 Djodref wrote:I'm going to bed now and I'm going to wake up few hours before the first round deadline. I would like to say that I don't like people who are saying they are voting this one and this one but are not using the voting thread. I don't have a clear view on their motivations. So I'm going to show them the way I would like them to follow. On October 10 2012 19:48 kushm4sta wrote:
voting momentoss because he's afk and I know his reads are bad
voting original because austin has contributed way more already and he's known as a good player
voting dauod because of his weird joke that made no sense... alien invaders what?
bad reasons? yes
subject to change? definintely This is an example of what I'm not going to do. On a side note, I don't like lurkers as well. ##Vote
Memento ×1
original ×1
@hopelesswould you mind explaining your gut feeling? Also I've just noticed that Kush ans ET have used the voting thread Says he doesn't like lurking and lurking is scummy. But later he defends ON for lurking saying lurking usually doesn't flip scum. Ridiculous double standards whenever its needed. In my opinion, lurking is scummy but hardcore lurking tells nothing. This is how I would explain my double standards.Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote:
Day 1 Round 2 Preview
HiroPro/OriginalName
At first glance this MU looks easy but it could be more interesting that it looks like. Once thing I have learned in my previous game is that obvious scum players are usually town (Kush being an exception of this rule^^).
We could all agree that ON looks bad, like very very bad. Casting last minute panic votes (on me on top of that) after zero posts and not even properly explaining his motives is scummy as hell. But thinking about it, I cannot imagine any mafia player being this obvious. So I want to give him a second chance for today and see if he can make it up before the deadline.
HiroPro hasn't posting that much and I didn't like his post encouraging people to share their thoughts and plans about the lynch mechanics. Right now, I would vote him over ON but I don't want to spend more than 3 votes on this (I didn't keep my 10 votes like, let's say, Hopeless).
Prediction: ON advaces against my will to the Round 4 5-3
snip
Gives ON an excuse for being scummy, bringing doubt on putting ON through. Too scummy to be scum. Mafia don't usually flip when they are this obvious. Saying he wants to vote hopeless over ON but wont use more than 3 votes. Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 11:33 Djodref wrote:@HopelessYou are my top scumread at the moment so I want to go full force against you. As I might no be able to vote on the last round, I don't mind to spend all my votes on you this round. I'll come up with a case against within 10 hours. ON is a scummy lurker but, in my opinion, he is more lurky than scummy. And you are still scummier than him  More lurky than scummy, another excuse. First post with a lot of effort into it is trying to advance Hopeless over ON: + Show Spoiler +On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote:As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
- Lack of scumhunting
- Suspicious unvotes at deadline
- Contradicts himself
Lack of scumhunting+ Show Spoiler +He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 02:44 kushm4sta wrote:
From Hope's posts it's clear that he is not concerned with finding scum. What does he care about instead?
-Will you be here for the deadline?
-Don't waste your votes.
Two topics, both of which I consider to be a total waste of time and a way to feign activity.
Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later.Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 03:45 Mementoss wrote:
@Hopeless stop defending yourself and give us your two best scum reads or your view of the matchups and who you are thinking of voting I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:
/snip
I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided.
/snip
I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture: - voting prplhz for one post, voting ON for being a lurker, voting me on a gut feeling
- passively letting Kush advance (reason=> wants to see how Hiro is going to handle Kush on round 2)
- not following Kush at all round 2, voting sandroba
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote:And one last thing before studying the MUs. @HopelessOn October 11 2012 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote:
/snip
I'll ask again since no one responded last time:
WILL YOU BE AVAILABLE AROUND THE DEADLINE (YES/NO)? PLEASE SELECT ONE RESPONSE.
Hopeless1der: Yes
Deadline is 11am for me and I have a meeting starting at 9am which should end my business trip. So I'm either going to be in meeting or on the way back to Seoul for the deadline. In the latter case, I should be able to check the thread with my phone. Now that I have answered your question, I would really like you to answer mine: Why are so concerned by people being around at deadline or not ? What are you trying to achieve exactly ? There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 21:00 Mementoss wrote:On October 11 2012 20:59 thrawn2112 wrote:On October 11 2012 20:56 Mementoss wrote:
It bothers me that these 3 players have the most power in town
ON
Hopeless
Da0
None of them used any votes officially, and all have 10 votes remaining. Coming down to the wire any one of them as scum could sway the results. If they're scum and that's their plan then they're pretty stupid because they'd be put in the spotlight for doing that. Not all 3, but it is very possible for one of them to be scum, gaining 2 extra votes after the first round could prove to be a great advantage. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it?
OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 However, he wasn't convinced enough before to use more than 3 votes, WHATS THIS, oh the situation changed, more people are voting ON than he thought. Now he decides he needs to use ALL his votes, that how convinced he is. I've explained many time why I have been using all my votes at that time. I was hoping to go to the finals against hopeless. Also you are deforming what happened during R3. Check the voting thread and you can easily see that I was the first one to vote this match-up. I think you had some confirmation bias while reading my filter + Show Spoiler +On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote:
First of all, I'm disappointed that Hopeless did not advance to the final. Right now, I would like him to be lynched, at least for the confusion he is putting me through. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen today...
I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 !
Concerning today's lynch, I don't have any more votes so I have basically no power to change anything. Yet I would like to use my words to convince you to lynch Sandroba over OriginalName.
OriginalName
I think everybody could agree that he is a total lurker. So let's look at the few things we have.
His useless panic vote against is scummy as hell and his explanation for it was weak in my view because he calls me for a post I have made drunk and me backing off from this post later on. I was drunk and I've made a mistake at that time so it was natural for me to back off. But I understand it could be suspicious in another player eye so it could be a valid reason to vote me. Regarding his vote, I think a scum player would have avoided voting like this.
And there it is, that's all we have from him ! I'm saying that it not enough to lynch him today.
Sandroba
Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter.
Also, his unexplained hunch for me is a scumtell. I've been looking bad enough (and from my first post apparently) to advance until the semis but he is one of two players to have a town read on me (hello prplhz!). Moreover, he didn't bother to address this point.
Regarding his last post, I was also drunken yesterday, I'm having a big hangover now, most likely I'm going to be drunk tonight again but I'm still trying to invest myself in this game. I imagine he is that disinterested right now because he is scum.
If I had votes right now, I would use them to vote Sandroba. Hence, I recommend you to lynch him. "His panic vote is scummy as hell but I doubt scum would do this therefore not scum!" - Seems legit. Convincing people he is a total lurker and not mafia. Decides this is the perfect time to mention his scum read on vet sandroba. Wait what, he doesn't want to lynch ON the non vet lurker, but says Sandroba is also a lurker but its scummy for him. WTF. Seriously? Unexplained hunch is a scumtell. Doesnt explain how. His meta is different. Also doesn't explain how. I would still lynch sandroba over ON if you were giving me only the first page of his filter, which was the only info I had at the time I've made that post. He was giving reads without explanations (his hunches) and that's a scumtell for me. I wrote this post while I was having no vote to cast, in thought my reasoning was good so I have shared it with everybody.No effort put into this like the effort on hopeless to try and save ON. Hypocrite, obviously biased against sandroba. Makes his whole case up out of nothing to make it look better. He recommends we lynch sandroba. + Show Spoiler +On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 03:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin are your votes for ON more because you think he's the scummier candidate, or because you are more afraid of sandroba being town and you wouldnt want to lose a town sandroba?
IMO sandroba is scummier than ON, but I am also a coward and I have no problems with a policy lynch... and when you think about it, ON is the perfect policy lynch candidate if there ever was one. I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them. I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? More doubt on the lynch. Part II: Wrong end of the lynch part 2: Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 18:18 Djodref wrote:I would like to elaborate on why we should attempt to lynch prplhz. After looking at prplhz filter, I've found: I know there is nothing much here new but I was already suspicious of prplhz and I'm sure right now that he is scum. I agree that Daoud filter doesn't look much better but, while reading it with my newb townie confirmation biased goggles, I've felt that he may have tried to find scum by looking at vote patterns and lynch mechanics rather than people posts. During R1, he aslo have been OMGUSing almost everybody who was attacking him (me for my early attack on his first posts, Sandroba for his hunch, Kush for voting him). I would expect a newb scum to be more likely to conciliate. All of this could make sense from a newbie town player which doesn't clearly know all the principles of this game (no knowledge of the blue roles for example, ninja voting, etc...). My feeling is that we definitively have a scum between the two but not that the two of them are scum. Honestly, if they were both scum, I would expect them to concede right now. I'm really more confident that prplhz is the scum out of them two. I would be happy to see them passing the potato to each other Another weak case that looks like a case just to be looking town and presenting the case. Also burns his hide just to look pro town. Part III: Im a Noobie! Guys im friendly town : + Show Spoiler +On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote:On a side note, Daoud really looks like a newb townie. I advice him to be careful with early association cases because I also thought I got the complete scumteam on D1 of my last newbie game In a result I just have been tunneling our town MVP until my death... On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote:I don't want to predict anything for this MU Also the predictions were fucking weird. Acting like he could read the future and shit, maybe its cause he knew what 2 other guys plans were. On October 12 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote:I'll check the thread when I wake up and I hope to be here for the deadline On October 12 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:I just have caught up with the thread on my phone. First I would like to say that the predictions were a (failed) attempt to make my comments look like a starcraft MU preview. Thank you Kush for understanding me and believing in me On October 12 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote:@HopelessIt's just that I didn't realize until late that the votes of ON on me were counting for this round. It felt like I was starting with an handicap but whatever... I don't want to get mislynched so I'll put more efforts in this game so everybody understand I can be a valuable asset for town Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon so you have to give me some more time. On October 12 2012 21:45 Djodref wrote:By the way, I'm going out for the night and I don't know if I would be able to wake up before 11am tomorrow, if you know what I mean On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote:@prplhzI would really appreciate you sharing with us all the info you have gathered with your questions here and there. I wouldn't mind if it was a long and articulate post. I'm starting to wondering if you are active in your scumhunting or just pretending to be active On October 14 2012 09:47 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 09:28 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote:On October 14 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 03:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin are your votes for ON more because you think he's the scummier candidate, or because you are more afraid of sandroba being town and you wouldnt want to lose a town sandroba?
IMO sandroba is scummier than ON, but I am also a coward and I have no problems with a policy lynch... and when you think about it, ON is the perfect policy lynch candidate if there ever was one. I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them. I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? Oh i'm not saying they're both town or both scum. It's more just ... if we're going to kill one, and I don't really think either is super scummy, I'd rather take the safer lynch. I want a townsand around more, and I want a scumON around less, so ... I'm more willing to lynch ON. Ok, I see. I had a little misunderstanding here. By the way if you don't really think either is super scummy, it's too bad you didn't use your votes to make scummier people advance in the previous stages then (it's just a joke, I've seen your explanations for it) Personally, I would still vote for Sandroba if I could but I guess it depends on your level of conviction for him to be scum. On October 14 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote:LOL So is this standard to have a total lurker in every scumteam ? It's the case in all my games so far Holy fuck, Im done with all the smileys, you get the point he wants to look like harmless friendly old townie djo. Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote:
@HiroPro
I might be a newbie and my case might be bad but I'm at least investing myself in this game. So I wouldn't mind you showing me how to make a good case because I'm not able to find any so far in your filter. I would even go as far as there is not so much content in your posts. Also, from what I understand, ON is on your scumlist, but I think we can safely assume that have more than one scum in this game. Who are your top scumreads now that you are dropping me ?
Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 23:05 Djodref wrote:Honestly, I don't know. I hope to be on their tracks But I would say I'm rather safe because I'm a newbie. I've had some time at work today so I've checked the filters and I've prepared some cases and a last will because I was bored. I wanted to post it before the deadline for the sake of the last will ^^ I also think it would give my cases more appeal because I'm on a different timezone and I feel a little left out. And people are here for the deadline so I hope there is going to be some discussion about it. His night 2 posts looked really townie. But they are easy to construct as mafia. Da0d is currently leading, and although Djo wanted nothing to do with his lynch, he isn't trying to convince anyone. He did not try to push Hiro even after he thought my hopeless post made sense. Also, he posted early out of excitment or WIFOM warning, because he knew he wasn't going to die. I think your part III is weak, this is just my posting style Djo, not as fucking townie as everyone thinks. Moving him up my list. In conclusion recap: -Hard defense on Ro3 ON vs Hopeless, uses all votes I would do it again. I still think this is my best move during this game-Hard defense on ON , trying to convince people to vote sandroba I prefer to lynch a scummy lurker (aka Sandro) than an hardcore lurker (aka ON). I don't care who is vet. Sandroba was looking bad at that time, bad enough for having a lot of votes against him. Moreover, I think a mafia player with no votes would have just shut up. I was trying to push people to lynch the guy who I thought was scum.-puttin doubt on ON lynch Didn't want to lynch an hardcore lurker. Moreover, I thought a mafia player would have not attracted attention over himself by voting at deadline.-Double standards on different lurkers, ON vs Hiro/hopeless/me early I've made my post when I voted you drunken and I wanted to vote ET instead of you at that time for not using the voting thread iirc.-weak case on prplhz, doesn't attempt to look outside prplhz and da0d even though he thinks da0d is town and has a good chance at being lynched My case against prplhz was good enough for me. I've also always said that Hiro was on my scumlist. Confirmation bias here-Trying really hard to look town and harmless, calling himself a noob and bad and smiley faces. Check my previous game and you are going to see the same meta -Isn't pushing his town read day 3 or his scum reads I'm trying to push but there is no one in the thread when I post and I have the feeling that everybody disregard my cases.-pretty much has been floating by without suspicion because of ON's panic votes. WIFOM, ON coulda been bused and coulda been used to make djo look townie.
For the final touch, I'm going to quote my attacker himself
On October 15 2012 20:48 Mementoss wrote:
Also, I'm gunna try to shy away from the connection cases with ON. Simply for the fact that ON was the perfect bus target. He was useless, and inactive so was guaranteed to get lynched eventually and gave easy town credibility on any one voting him. It also gives scum a chance who voted him, to shift the attention off themselves by using oh he voted for ON not to move on in this matchup, SCUM SCUM. So yeah, I'll take it into account when reading filters, but I think ON was probably bussed.
@Mementoss
If you think I didn't address some things properly, please let me know. I liked your case against me even if some parts are not exactly correct. I would appreciate you to give me some comments on my cases for Hiro/VE.
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Here is the lynching intentions I got from everybody so far
austinmcc -> Mementoss
da0ud -> ?
djodref -> VE
kushm4sta -> Thrawn
Hopeless1der -> daoud
Thrawn2112 -> ?
Mementoss -> Djodref
VisceraEyes -> austin
Maybe we should try to consolidate ? I think that VE is a good compromise
On a serious note, I could imagine austin, daoud or me lynched today. Would you agree on that one ?
I don't want daoud to be lynched and I'm town.
I need more time to look at austin.
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I don't want da0 lynched, and I want to know his thoughts on who he wants to lynch before coming to any further conclusions about him. Out of all the people who might be lynched, my gut instinct tells me he's the one who's probably the most likely to be a mislynch.
I don't want VE lynched, for reasons stated here:
On October 18 2012 13:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
no I don't want to lynch him because I don't like lynching replacements, especially when the replace in with like 24 hours left till lynch.
As for your case, I don't think the "not giving potato to prplhz" is a good argument. Reading through his filter at that time it really looked like he had good reasons for not doing so. (He planned on giving prplhz the potato right before the 24 hour mark) Other than that the main stuff everyone (including me) has been citing as suspicious behavior was his lurking... well when he gets a replacement that makes me think he has legitimate real life reasons for his low activity. That does not point to townie or scummy... it just means he didn't have enough time to properly play the game so I can't make any judgement calls based on the fact that he was a lurker. Other than that, the posts he did make were well reasoned etc so I don't see anything damming enough to lynch his replacement. At this point my read on hiro is basically null and it's all going to be based off my read on VE from now on.
I don't want hopeless lynched. Based on the logic case about ON vs hopeless, I think hopeless is town. A tldr summary of that case is here:
On October 17 2012 21:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
that's very interesting i'm going to read through the ON vs hopeless stuff
so correct me if i'm getting this wrong but the logic works out to be like this:
ON is scum. Sand is town. Scum don't want a scum in the finals. That;s why hopleess was originally set to advance instead of ON. We know this because it was ET who pushed ON into the finals, and ET is town. If hopeless and ON were both scum, then scum should have been bussing ON because he would have been the less detrimental loss. It would have made no sense for scum to push a scum hopeless into finals rather than a scum ON.
Therefore the scum plan was to move hopeless (who is town) into the finals?
I don't want kush lynched. I'd be quite surprised if he's scum.... both for his hammering of ON and for what I see as an almost identical match between his play this game his town meta.
That leaves me with mementoss, djodref, and austin.
My instincts all game minus D1 have been telling me that austin is scum... there's just something about the general tone and usefulness of his posts that seems different from the town austin I'm familiar with.
Austin's case against mementoss is quite good. However recently mementoss has been townie as hell. I'd like to see more discussion about djo because recently there's been several things pointed out about him, and we've basically been ignoring him all game.
In summary I'll be voting for one of the 3 above mentioned players, not sure which yet. I want to lynch memtoss the least out of those 3, and the choice between austin/djo mostly depends on what conclusion I come to about austin's vote sharing because that is a HUGE issue for me.
Updated lynch list will prob look something like:
1 Djodref/austin
3 mementoss
4 hiro/ve
5 kushm4sta
6 da0ud
7 hopeless1der
8 thrawn
If any of my town reads are going to be lynched I'm going to move myself up higher just so I can move them lower. When making these lists, it's going to be very important in how we rank everybody so we don't accidentally lynch someone we have no intentions of lynching.
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djo you say VE is a good compromise... expand on that.
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oh nvm it wasn't serious
but please tell me why you want to lynch a replacement. the fact that hiro was lurking and got replaced strongly suggests that regardless of his alignment, he truly did not have time to play the game and so his lurking was due to real life issues, and not anything game related. I don't see how you can have anything but a null read on him
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Did you check his filter ?
D1/N1
- talkative about the lynch mechanics but a lot less about the match-ups in general
- kush and me on his radar then drops us (not even commenting my matchup against sandro)
- gives his thoughts but mainly when people ask him for it, retaining info in general
- too decisive to be true regarding his ON votes (R3 and R4) => he was bussing him
D2/N2
- holds the potato for a bad reason => retaining info
- not giving scumreads at the execption of prplhz (even if I get back on his radar)
- disregards me and my questions
- promise scumreads and disappear
I'm just realizing that VE wants to lynch austin. I don't know what to think about this...
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For me, it is clear that Hiro was playing against us.
Please also notice how he handles prplhz.
That's why I want a VE lynch today. Also I'll put daoud as low as possible to avoid him a lynch. Updating my list right now...
##Vote
1-VisceraEyes
2-austinmcc
3-Hopeless1der
4-kushm4sta
5-Mementoss
6-Thrawn2112
7-da0ud
8-Djodref
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Regarding austin being in 2nd position, I think he deserves it for two reasons
- his washy-washy case against me (I'm looking scum but I'm town on a gut feeling)
- him hard-tunneling mementoss when the latter one has showed pro-town play lately
and also because it's more likely for all the others to be town.
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Catching up on the thread.
I realized the less I talk the better.
From what I currently see in the voting thread I am on top of the lynching list (with Austin, Kush, and my votes missing).
I am trying to make up my mind for this round by omitting who actually bullies me because I am an easy target for a town or a scum person.
I am focusing more on other interactions like : Austin vs Mementoss, Kush vs Thrawn.
I am letting Djodref handle my defense. Will consider him as my coach (same as he says he had in another game).
I want to understand if it actually makes more sense for town Djo to defend misunderstood town Da0ud or scum Djo to defend town Da0ud.
1) Djo is town :
- if I get mislynched, he will get a lot of town credit and will be a potential target for the NK. However this will bring a lot of indications on other people's roles when re-reading the entire thread with two more known facts : Da0ud = town, Djo = town
- if I don't get lynched, we will be able to get more pieces of info depending on the role of who actually gets lynched.
2) Djo is scum:
- if I get mislynched, he will get a lot of town credit, he won't be killed overnight and this will be suspicious. Looks like a smart move, but he will have to put on a strong defense in D4 to save himself and even more depending on who gets killed instead of him overnight.
- if I don't get lynched, it might be a good move as well to keep me arround, because I will be an easy target to mislynch again in D4.
As a conclusion, I am not too sure about Djo's move here. I want to trust him as of now though.
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EBWOP : As a conclusion, I am not too sure about Djo's move here. I want to trust him for now though.
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EPT
