How about the fact that I successfully determined ghost visited Hiro on N2 when the swap occurred before ghost claimed he did? Am I scumbuddies with ghost or did I get a lucky guess? Or maybe I'm so smart that I saw the ghost-Hiro swap before everybody else and correctly guessed what happened that night in order to make that claim? Also how about the fact that coincidentally my check on austin last night didn't contradict anything? You think I knew what austin's role was before claiming he visited Hiro/Keirathi? Or did I get lucky again? Or maybe I am a tracker BS/RS? How about all the "crumbs" I left all over the place in that explanation I made in my post?
You are telling me I planned claiming that Nisani visited Mementos ever since N2 (or D3 if you get picky)? That is a hell of a fake-breadcrumb for claiming something that doesn't make sense.
Do you want me to believe you think the answer to all these questions is "yeah you faked that you scum"? I don't think I could quite believe that unless you make a very good argument.
You have all the time in the world this N4 to determine why I am scum Jingle, so I'd advice you use it and not go lurking/inactive You also better visit austin tonight Jingle, and austin better not drop dead
...yeah I think that's kind of a flaw with this whole "track Jingles" plan, dunno how we'll solve it. Having a medic on austin is a possibility. If Jingle is scum and decides to visit someone else, I'll see him visiting him. If he decides to not shoot, I'll see him not visit anybody. If he decides to kill austin and then claim "obviously scum killed austin since they knew I was visiting him!", then austin will be saved and there will be no night kill, so everything fine, another "free" day to lynch scum. Again the worst case scenario is that he's that Framer-GF.
You also haven't answered my question: Why did you drop by just to claim and disappear and paid no attention to the post where I claimed? From your POV I was scum fake-claiming to create chaos; and also avoid getting lynched and have most people believe me (which I did! If I was scum and you town you would have been pretty terrible at your job Jingle), so why didn't you at least mention my claim? Again, it was a gigantic post filled with colors and blue bolded asterisks all over. It was impossible to miss...like at all.
I recommend that you protect gonzaw, so that his track goes through and we at least have some kind of information. If he's not town tracker, then our only town information role was a watcher and a super conditional uncontrollable Role Cop.
But what if austin dies tonight and I get that Jingle visited austin? I'm 100% sure that's what will happen if there is 0 medic saves on austin and austin is not RS (whether JH is RS or not).
If I am to track Jingle austin should be protected or scum should fear he's protected so scum doesn't shoot him. I also need to be protected to get my check... And matt needs to be protected because he's Chell and all that shit.
....yeah we are short on medics tonight :/ WIFOMing between all of us may be the better option (as long as S&B+Kei don't target the same person). Try again Jingle
Strike nº1
Once I get to Strike nº3 I'll 100% ignore everything you say and tunnel you until you die. Well, I may not ignore things that I deem important to try and get you lynched of course.
Okay people, tomorrow we lynch JingleHell no matter what. (I want that big for emphasis)
It should be obvious by now the reason why. He cares shit about the game and cares shit about finding scum. He doesn't even care about trying to get me lynched and convincing people I'm scum even though I'm his "biggest scumread" ever since Day.Mother.Fucking.One. I'm his greatest read yet he can't find the time or effort to attack the points I make or the points other people make for me being town. He doesn't give a shit he just wants to vote me as soon as D5 starts and survive as long as possible.
2nd post of the page? Check Biggest post in the game? Check It starts and ends with blue bolded asteriks so it's impossible to miss? Check It has a million of colors and fonts and formats so it's impossible to miss if you skim it? Check
It is impossible Jingle missed it, yet he didn't mention it at all, even though he had enough time to post 7 times afterwards and greatly discuss his role. You would have thought that trying to get your "Greatest scumread in all history of mafia" lynched would be the most important task in your book if it's near end-game and that player made a fantastic claim almost everybody fell for; not claiming out of nowhere and spending 100% of your effort trying to convince people your role can't be a scum role
You know what other thing? Yep, he spent those 7 posts of his explaining how his role can't belong to a Black Mesa member. Any mention of Aperture Science? No. Any mention about anything else at all? No Did he give a shit about anything else other than his own survival? No Just 7 posts explaining why his role is "overpowered" for a BS to have (or just as scum to have). You know Jingle, you are right, that role is "OP" for scum to have, therefore the only explanation is that you are fake-claiming it and you have a different scum role.
Fuck the town read I had for most of this game, I won't stand up for more bullshit right now fearing Jingle is just a misled townie or some shit. Jingle is a member of the Aperture Science Team and has to die
If you want speculation about whether he fake-claimed or not read this:
On October 10 2012 10:58 gonzaw wrote: Hey....I had a thought, let's see where it goes:
What if Jingle is an Aperture Science Framer?. He can choose what check/report can come from a player he chooses. On N1 he chose Nisani and made it so he visited Mementos (if there is a framer role that wanted to frame Nisani it has to be from RS since BS didn't know Mementos would get killed due to their lack of factional KP and I think almost any KP whasoever), which explains my report.
Now, he claims he's "bulletproof guy that always visits austin at night to hide". He claimed this after I claimed tracker. If he's RS, he knows that I can track him at night now (and be un-RBeable and maybe bulletproof if Kei/S&B target me), so he could get instantly caught. To survive my reports he'd need to not shoot at night....which would be weird and still scummy if I say I'm going to track him. Therefore he claimed a role that only visits austin at night and if I see him visit austin at night it "confirms" him as town if we believe what he told us... ...but what if he frames himself every night from now on and makes any track report from him say he visited austin? Even if he chooses to shoot someone unrelated at night (maybe Keirathi for instance), my track report will say he visited austin, therefore "confirming" his role, and of course justifying him living so long at night (i.e scum not killing him) since "scum wouldn't shoot a bulletproof hider".
Didn't really have a scum read on Jingle but fuck scumreads right now they didn't do me any good until now. Let's speculate! What do you guys think of this possibility?
Granted austin could do something similar with a framer ability (i.e frame himself so he visits an "unrelated" target, someone different than who he shoots).
Meh, seems improbable that a framer can frame himself, but really...what other explanation could there be for my N1 report and the lack of "scummy" claims so far? (i.e claims that can be refuted, etc)
If you want some scum motivation for his actions this game read this:
On October 10 2012 12:06 austinmcc wrote: Being "good ol' crazy town ANYONE" isn't necessarily scummy.
?? My point is that if he's scum he could act batshit crazy to stir off suspicion of iamperfection but have everybody ignore it since he'd act like that as town However I've read some of his previous games (PTP3 for instance) so I can see him doing that as town as well. Which is why I didn't really pay attention to it. It did give me more townie vibes than scummy vibes since it didn't really seem to push a scum agenda and if it did it was so obvious it wouldn't have worked at all.
I just...if he wants to create chaos why doesn't he keep it up? I'd think creating chaos AND getting called 100% town for it by someone would egg you on to do more.
One reason would be preservation like Keirathi said before. If he's the sole remaining RS, who would benefit from the chaos he created if it gets him lynched? Black Mesa would benefit, that's it. If he's the sole remaining RS it would make sense to just keep up whatever he's doing with me to "hide" in plain sight without having to do anything important all game (just accuse me, start a shitstorm with me every now and then, vote me and be desinterested of the rest of the game).
Well...if I put it like that it seems like he's super scummy...again the thing is that some of his posts and reasonings seemed genuine, and again he seemed to go against me because he genuinely thought I was scum rather than go against me to justify his vote/activity (at first, on N1-D2).
Instead, he's fallen back into what I recognize as town JH's pattern, based only on PTP3. His constant pushing on you this game feels like his constant pushing on Grush in that game. Pop in start of the day, vote, dip out. There are some differences in other areas, but I'm thinking those are improvements to some flaws rather than him playing differently because he's a different alignment this game.
Could be...or maybe not. I have no idea.
Oh, one more thing: If JingleHell is scum this game I'm going to policy lynch or tunnel the hell out of everybody that tunnels me for more than 2 cycles without properly explaining themselves. If he's scum no more "damn he could just be bad town" from me. Scum doing that to me pisses me off (specially when it works) since I feel they are taking advantage of me. Townies doing that to me pisses me off as well because I can't realize if they are scum taking advantage of me (and also because of the whole in-game stuff).
Also Keirathi and other people wrote plenty of shit about him and phrased it better than me (about his contributions and shit), so read that as well.
He might be BS, but his actions towards the D1 lynch where he tried to spout bullshit and chaos by disrupting the iamperfection lynch, never mentioning iamperfection at all even though he could have easily jumped on his lynch if he was a Black Mesa member, all point fingers towards him being RS instead
On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote: Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad.
Shit maybe he's even a scum vet like ghost is and wants us to waste a vig bullet if there is one. ...or he's just talking his ass off since every townie has already claimed by that point and nobody had claimed vig so he's 100% sure he can't get shot, since I'm sure he concluded that BS have no KP left. Therefore why not try to catch a little bit more of town cred by suggesting someone shoots him at night? Again, what would be the town motivation for that? If a vig shoots him the vig loses his bullet. Why would he want a vig to lose his bullet on D5 (this is not D1 people) instead of having the vig...I dunno SHOOT ME, HIS GREATEST SCUM READ EVER????? Biggest contradiction of interests ever....
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention his claim is the safest claim in the game. He claims he's bulletproof at night while austin is alive, and always visits austin at night, and does nothing else. If that doesn't sound like the most convenient claim ever then I'll fucking tapdance naked on top of a bus going downhill. You know what? I may not even track him tonight, he'll be dead by the D5 lynch and flip RS so no need to waste my track ability on him. What I can do is try to use my track ability to maybe confirm some "townie" players who claimed night actions didn't lie about their role trying to find the remaining BS if there is one.
Just in case people actually started to believe this:
On October 11 2012 10:41 JingleHell wrote: By the way, for anyone listening to Gonzaw... you do realize he claimed this guy, right?
Yeah you are right. I claimed a guy that wants to kill both Chell and GlaDOS But it's not like I claimed I also want to kill Chell and GlaDOS as well isn't? ...oh ....oh wait ....oh that's right, my role does want me to kill both Chell and GlaDOS
Sorry to disappoint you Jingle.
Also, if you want to base your case against me on "flavour", I can completely turn it around and destroy it:
Wheatly: 1)Wants to kill both Chell and GlaDOS to take over Aperture labs and be an addicted ruler of stuff 2)Doesn't give a shit about Black Mesa 3)Doesn't have anything against Doug Rattman, or P-Body, or Atlas, or Cave Johnson, or other personality cores, or the companion cube 4)Isn't GlaDOS, and isn't part of the Aperture Science Team at all and doesn't give a shit about them succedding
My role: 1)I have to kill both Chell and GlaDOS to take over Aperture labs with scum 2)I am not a Black Mesa member 3)My win-condition does not contradict the win condition of town 4)I am not an Aperture Science member
At worst you can make the argument that I am a 3rd party independant of town, RS and BS (that actually would have fitted in better, for instance what austin said about me winning the game once Chell and GlaDOS are dead), but not that I'm scum, at least not based on the flavour of my role.
Nice try though. Obvious attempt to discredit me with faulty logic is obvious though
Jingle was scum though, told you that (meh got the alignment wrong, whatever). Meh, that 3-3 thing fucked my reads. GG austin and Hiro (thank you for letting me win lololololo))
Okay, now I'm going to see who was the motherfucker that made my N1 report go wrong
lol austin that last post you made on me was so bad I was secretly laughing while I was reading the thread "Is this guy on drugs? lol".
Anyways....maybe I subconsciously knew who the RS scum were (austin and Hiro) and my subconscious made me have town reads on them and scum reads on the BS so I could win with RS instead of town....while my own conscious brain actually thought austin and Hiro were town?
......I really hope that's true...at least it's better than "I suck".
Anyways.....3 RS fucked up my reads, yes they did (specially since I assumed that if the guy I check doesn't visit the dead guy he's confirmed not RS....debunked by austin not visiting Mattchew on N3).
Anyways I wanted to kill 2 scum in D3 (austin+ghost) and 2 scum on D4 (ghost+Jingle) so I'm not that unhappy about my reads. At least I got all the townies right (except Mattchew at times lol)
On October 12 2012 08:16 Keirathi wrote: Good game everyone. It was really frustrating to me that it devolved into trying to solve the game rather than scum hunt, but overall I enjoyed the setup immensely. Tons of awesome roles. Thanks hosts!
the game devolved because town (especially mattchew) did jack shit after day 1. and gonzaw played brilliantly. that is assuming he was trying to play as a traitor lol. (and not town)
EPT
