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Okay, so taking a good look at Risen now.
1) The really bad "case" 40 minutes into the game. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote:
hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for that, since virtually every game has someone make a similarly terrible case, but on top of his recent postings, I can certainly see him being scum and sticking his neck out early.
2) Giving his scum read an out:
On September 06 2012 06:19 Risen wrote:
You then say you'll come back and tell us who's scum. You sound really confident you know who scum is. You scum breh?
On September 06 2012 07:09 Risen wrote:
For reference, Kenpachi rule = whoever attacks the VT claim first is scum. I don't think it's particularly alignment telling either, but it is scummy in my opinion. Combine that with his OMGUS argument and we have our first scum team member. (I'm like 65% sure prplhz is scum)
On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote:
prplhz's vote is definitely not worse than Risen's
stop being dumb You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum.
But then:
On September 06 2012 07:12 Risen wrote:
There is no defense for you at this point if you keep digging yourself a hole. It's early in the day, relax and just scumhunt as the day goes on.
So, you seem pretty confident that prplhz is scum before this post (and even a bit after it). So why are you telling him what he needs to do to look townie? If you're really trying to catch a scum, you should be tightening the noose, not giving him a way to slip out of it.
Plus, where is your scumhunting as the day goes on?
And this:
On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote:
*snip*
From Zephirdd's post
"Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically."
I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make.
That doesn't sound like what you were trying to say earlier.
3) Misrepresentation of facts/WIFOM/etc
On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote:
Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or (A)scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. (B)I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. (3)He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH)
A) Bussing you? I don't really understand this part at all.
B) Like I pointed out, Risen played with marv as both townies in I Can't Believe Its Not Themed mini 2 months ago. I was in the game too, and ribbed him about it in the pre-game and he replied, so I assumed he remembered. Now he says he doesn't remember the game at all and was just rolling with the punches.
So is his memory really just that bad, or is he intentionally saying he doesn't remember because he got caught in a lie? Normally I would give BotD for that, since not everyone will remember every game they've ever played, but it seems really suspect in light of the other evidence.
C) All the rest is just major WIFOM. In fact, I'm not even sure what the point of those last two sentences are? Like, he's not using them to condemn marv, nor is he clearing him? He's just using WIFOM as fuck arguments to say "I'm watching you." Why not just say that you're watching him?
Conclusion: Too many little things that on their own could be scummy or could just be a bad townie, but combine them all together and it fits the bill of a scum.
##Vote: Risen
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On September 07 2012 02:02 Ange777 wrote:
Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence?
you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning?
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On September 07 2012 01:59 Ange777 wrote:I'm kind of hung up on this: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote:
Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town?
Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) You pointed it out earlier and I haven't seen a direct reply from Risen. Why would you say that as scum marv would appear to bus you? From town Risen's perspective scum marv would be happy to pile up more evidence on a Risen mislynch.
Ange I think you're wrong in the bolded section. Marvel is sneaky as fuck.
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On September 07 2012 02:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:02 Ange777 wrote:
Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence? you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning?
I certainly had that thought.
But in context it doesn't really make sense. You (marv) are trying to appear like you are bussing him (Risen)? Huh?
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Yes, that's exactly what I am thinking. I want to hear an explanation.
##FOS Risen
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On September 07 2012 02:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:06 marvellosity wrote:On September 07 2012 02:02 Ange777 wrote:
Yeah, but why the word choice? Am I missing a linguistic interpretation of this sentence? you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning? I certainly had that thought. But in context it doesn't really make sense. You (marv) are trying to appear like you are bussing him (Risen)? Huh?
I know! It's confusing.
@Risen: Explanation please instead of deflecting.
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I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought.
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On September 07 2012 02:14 Risen wrote:
I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought.
But you would have to be scum with marv for him to "bus" you. If he's scum and you're town, he could be starting a wagon on you. However, bus and wagon are the same thing from town's PoV. They're only discernible to scum.
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Well sorry for "playing stupid" but I got my bussing definition from here (Bussing - MafiaWiki) and it says: Bussing is the act of distancing yourself from your scum partners.
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I really think Risen is just misusing the term.
If we take that aside, what else do you draw from this, Ange?
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He is still a scummy fuck backpadelling and making excuses.
##Vote Risen
On September 07 2012 01:33 Risen wrote:Oh... I was just going with the flow man :/ Also, that entire post I just made was directed under the impression that you thought I was scummy here. Apparently it was directed at Keirathi. My previous post makes little sense now :/
He gives a reason why he made a post quoting a post made AFTER his initial post.
When called out he finds another place where is is "called out as scum":
On September 07 2012 01:48 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote:
at least prplhz was voting on something that was a pile of shit, unlike Risen Looks like he's calling me out there :/
Keirathi already pointed out his backpadelling on the whole prplhz-is-scum deal. It's some mighty stupid pressure if you don't think he is scum
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Keirathi your case is pretty bad man. I wish I had the patience to do the segmented response thing, but I'll just be responding to your points raised.
1) Keirathi should know discussion is the most important thing to get started on. Most games it comes in the form of setup discussion or a bad case. What other kind of case is there so early on in the day? You find something particularly disturbing in someone's initial post, and then you pressure them on it. Their response to said pressure, and the thread's response can be especially telling.
Like calling someone out for getting discussion started. Then making inane points about how they're giving their "scum read" ways out.
2) I'm giving a potential towny a way to come back. Guess what all scum have as a weakness, and inability to truly hunt scum, because they're just outing their teammates at that point. What does this force scum to do?
Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting.
3)Not remembering a game I played with Marv where we were on different teams (note the I think in what you're calling me out on) is not a scumtell, nor is it misrepresentation of fact. I already answered where marv could potentially be bussing me, and trying to paint the use of bus instead of wagon as a scumtell is a sign of someone trying to push something that just isn't there.
##unvote
##vote Keirathi
So maybe getting the game rolling wasn't such a bad idea 
Prplhz THIS is how you respond to someone who has made a case on you if you genuinely think they're scum. Don't use OMGUS unless you're trying to convey that they wouldn't usually be this horrible, but are using being bad as a screen.
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On September 07 2012 02:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:14 Risen wrote:
I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought. But you would have to be scum with marv for him to "bus" you. If he's scum and you're town, he could be starting a wagon on you. However, bus and wagon are the same thing from town's PoV. They're only discernible to scum.
I'll respond to this for the sake of answering for other people.
1) Assume marv is scum
2) Assume he wants you all to think I'm scum
3) he's therefor trying to make it appear as a bus.
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Like this: Dirkzor isn't that bad. No one is that bad. OMGUS in effect. Coming in to back up a scum buddy's post?
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##unvote
no particular explanation right now than something feels wrong.
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On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote:
Keirathi your case is pretty bad man. I wish I had the patience to do the segmented response thing, but I'll just be responding to your points raised.
1) Keirathi should know discussion is the most important thing to get started on. Most games it comes in the form of setup discussion or a bad case. What other kind of case is there so early on in the day? You find something particularly disturbing in someone's initial post, and then you pressure them on it. Their response to said pressure, and the thread's response can be especially telling.
You're right. Discussion is the more important thing early in day 1. Which is why I gave you the BotD early, and questioned prplhz instead of you. And yes, I know that their response to the "pressure" can be telling. I said that exact same thing yesterday.
On September 06 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote:
*snip*
People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case.
*snip*
Your early case didn't necessarily make you scummy, but its just more icing on the cake to the rest of your posts.
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote:
Like calling someone out for getting discussion started. Then making inane points about how they're giving their "scum read" ways out.
2) I'm giving a potential towny a way to come back. Guess what all scum have as a weakness, and inability to truly hunt scum, because they're just outing their teammates at that point. What does this force scum to do?
Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting.
So why would you, as a "townie", want to put up a smokescreen to appear like you are scumhunting without actually scumhunting. Thats what scum want to do, not townies.
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote:
3)Not remembering a game I played with Marv where we were on different teams (note the I think in what you're calling me out on) is not a scumtell, nor is it misrepresentation of fact. I already answered where marv could potentially be bussing me, and trying to paint the use of bus instead of wagon as a scumtell is a sign of someone trying to push something that just isn't there.
The game I pointed out, you were on the same team, both as townie. Which was contradictory to the point you made. You used an "I think..." argument which was blatantly wrong to strengthen your WIFOM bullshit about you being wary of marv.
As far as you using the term bus, I didn't actually call you out on that. I asked for an explanation because it made no sense. Like I said to marv, it crossed my mind that it could have been a scumslip, but in context it didn't make sense as a scumslip.
In context, and after your recent response, it sounds like you are genuinely misusing the word, which isn't alignment, indicative in any way.
FYI: It means mafia throwing their teamates "under the bus" to gain towncred. It has nothing to do with mafia making cases on townies.
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Where is my smokescreen? Is my first case bad? Probably. It certainly isn't the only grounds that should be used to lynch someone, but I do feel like calling someone out for scummy behavior is perfectly acceptable, and a vote can be used to add pressure and get a response.
How has no one noted this part of his first post?
On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote:
hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks
Giving himself a reason to be out of the thread for almost 24 hours? Then when I pressure him he is suddenly very active in the thread? Combine that with his posting after being pressured and I am leaning scum on him. I'm leaning more scum on you, though.
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On September 07 2012 03:19 Risen wrote:
Where is my smokescreen? Is my first case bad? Probably. It certainly isn't the only grounds that should be used to lynch someone, but I do feel like calling someone out for scummy behavior is perfectly acceptable, and a vote can be used to add pressure and get a response.
I was just using your own wording.
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote:
Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting.
You admitted to a lack of pressure on someone who could just as easily be down or scum. Then say that lack of pressure is a smokescreen to give the appearance of scumhunting.
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EBWOP: Also, my smokescreen comment was saying "Keirathi is using my lack of pressure on someone to indicate me being scum. This is a smokescreen so it appears he's scum hunting, but he isn't." Your case isn't a "case".
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EPT
