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B-B-B-BONUS FIND!
While reading through Forumite, there's this:On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far?
Again, Z-BosoN so concerned with watchers. What do watchers see? What counts as visiting? How many watchers are in the game?
Why is he so concerned with watchers? Cuz he's doing something that could get watched. And again, leaning assassin now because he's putting that in thread rather than into QT.
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On September 10 2012 03:52 austinmcc wrote:Making notes but will put them in thread so you can see my thought process: Reading WoF scum QT : + Show Spoiler +Forumite not a scum leader, but seems to be thinking about whether his actions look town or scummy. Choosing targets to go after based on who his town self would go after. Some of not being the scum leader could be the fact that he's scum with Ace, who he and VE probably deferring to. Based off that, I don't expect to be able to look at who Forumite is pushing and say "scummy target," but perhaps the logic will be slightly different/lacking. Unsure whether to expect Forumite to be pushing scum's agenda or not. Reading WoF itself : + Show Spoiler +- Lots of questions. However, not in the scummy "I don't care about the answer, I'm asking to be active/look myself" way, but actually following up with the answers he gets, engaging in dialogue.
- Makes lynch preference on Zentor known, continutes referencing Zentor until deadZentor
- Engages other people's cases, but sticks with just Zentor as his case
- Likes to use his questions to mess with town heads. I see you made a case on x, why would x have done this? Sort of halfway pushing his own options, "I am forumite and I want you to think x did this because of ___" but not explicitly (See the VE/Marv stuff for some of this)
- Often times if directly asks about someone, he's either wishy-washy or gives a cursory read. When asked to contribute views on people he isn't aiming at, doesn't really do so. Pestering him about players he's unconcerned with in his own posts may be a good way to discern alignment.
- At least from WoF, scumForumite doesn't seem to build a massive case based on a filter. Only at the end, on Phagga (althought that was the final lynch, so there's more filter to use). Unsure on townForumite's way of building a case, but his Zentor case sort of just looked at 2/3 of what Zentor did and called it scummy, building and building.
Reading current game : + Show Spoiler +- Lots of questions.
- Questions feel...slightly different? Whereas in WoF I see a lot of picking at other people's cases, here he seems to be agreeing, or asking for more, or something slightly different than just "How do you explain this one bit of your case?"
- Engages Mav, his scumread, but feels different than engaging Zentor in WoF. Some of that could be that Zentor did some very scummy things like selfvote off the bat, but he's not grabbing onto everything Mav posts and twisting it to be scummy like he did with Zentor in WoF.
Agree that Forumite has not been involved. Gone most of BKE lynch, no comments on Grush apart from one "he's trolling with that awesome sesame street song and I want to lynch him" bit. No comment on Z-BosoN. However, at points he has commented on random extra stuff - last night's argument and saying he thought it was silly and everyone was town. Your cautiousness section is weaksauce. You posted a very mushy "Forumite is the vet I feel least confident" post/case-ish-thing, then noted that you disliked the cases others made on forumite, while still liking the forumite = scum conclusion. End result - I'm not entirely convinced. He doesn't look great. But while I think he's still doing a lot of questioning and not a lot of his own contribution at this point, the questions feel slightly different. I wish he'd give thoughts on other players, but scumForumite in WoF was picking apart a lot of cases that didn't focus his target. Forumite is not doing that here, he's on Maverick but doesn't really keep poking at other people to try and get them off their cases and onto Maverick. Right now I would not vote for him. However, I'll go read another game or two of his either before day or if I survive. I don't like drawing all my conclusions from (1) a game where he was scum and (2) a mini. Especially for those of us who haven't played with him much, of course he's going to look bad if we only read one scum game and see comments like "Forumite usually helpful" "Forumite usually pushing his reads." I'd like to confirm those thoughts with my own reads of other games.
dude, 3rd party Forumite gets shot n1 in his games because he's too helpful for town while trying to blend in.
Town forumite is helpful for town as well.
Only mafia forumite is doing apeshit.
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On September 10 2012 03:54 austinmcc wrote:B-B-B-BONUS FIND! While reading through Forumite, there's this: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Again, Z-BosoN so concerned with watchers. What do watchers see? What counts as visiting? How many watchers are in the game? Why is he so concerned with watchers? Cuz he's doing something that could get watched. And again, leaning assassin now because he's putting that in thread rather than into QT.
Hmmm, interesting.
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On September 10 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote:
dude, 3rd party Forumite gets shot n1 in his games because he's too helpful for town while trying to blend in.
Town forumite is helpful for town as well.
Only mafia forumite is doing apeshit. Third party forumite got shot for being too helpful in a game where I thought he was scum. That was the first case I made in that game before going nuts about your bandaid.
I gave my thoughts on WoF Forumite and this game. Right now I wouldn't vote for Forumite. Reading past town games might change that.
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On September 10 2012 04:02 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote:
dude, 3rd party Forumite gets shot n1 in his games because he's too helpful for town while trying to blend in.
Town forumite is helpful for town as well.
Only mafia forumite is doing apeshit. Third party forumite got shot for being too helpful in a game where I thought he was scum. That was the first case I made in that game before going nuts about your bandaid. I gave my thoughts on WoF Forumite and this game. Right now I wouldn't vote for Forumite. Reading past town games might change that.
You consider posts like:
On September 06 2012 08:26 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:01 Maverick32x wrote:
Why am I being casually FoS'ed? I don't think I've ever seen a solid case against me, but I keep seeing people just drop my name into the list as an add-on without any reason?
I find THAT a bit suspicious. Weird, I see what you mean, and I agree. It´s a bad idea to tag you on as a regular suspect at the end of a scumlist. You deserve a top position for your first post on Matt before the Palmar confirmation. That´s a top-grade wishy-washy chainsaw-defence scum post. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 13:17 Maverick32x wrote:
Hey guys- got a chance to catch up and I have a couple thoughts.
First- Not totally comfortable voting Mattchew at this point.. I understand the potential for lying about the role claim.. and I'm not a big fan of role claiming in general... HOWEVER- I'd like to reiterate BlackMamba's post that said something to the tune of "ITT- Townies arguing with Townies" because I find that people are so quick to blame each other for stupid stuff that we end up wasting the first couple days with literally zero reason for voting someone besides "They drew a picture"....
That being said- I'd like to draw a little bit of attention to the first voter for whom I feel like I can make an actual observation on- Toadesstern.
The reason I want to focus on that is just because of the speed at which he strikes out just makes me wonder why that's beneficial from a town perspective? And I'm just wondering if he just wanted to try to promote chaos right away?? Also- consistently attacking other posters seems to be a trend.... My reads: Maverick32x (Scum)Everyone else (Null) andOn September 07 2012 08:17 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote:On September 07 2012 07:48 Forumite wrote:
=(
Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now. I don't consider the case on you to be good and I don't agree with it. I want to lynch you because of method or elimination. So I'd rather see you talk about targets for today. I have two scumreads right now. I had Ottox down as scum, I was wrong but it shouldn´t affect the other reads. They are both based on the time around Matts claim. The first one is Maverick for his first post in the game, it was a reaction to Matts claim and the situation around it, and he was basically trying to divert attention to everyone else, without committing to anything. The second one is Hapa for his posts during the same time. The post below sums it up well. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? When I read this post at first, I see Hapa buddying up with Matt and throwing suspicion on those attacking him. It didn´t feel right, Matt claiming didn´t arouse any suspicion in him. He said hi to Matt and then chided those attacking him. That´s the ones that jumped out at me when reading the thread. Yes, I should reread all the spam from yesterday, I´ll see about that tomorrow. tl;dr: Hapahauli
Maverick32x
as not cursory?
That's pretty much the only thing he did this game.
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Things that I don't think: Forumite has been particularly helpful/active/involved.
Things I still don't want to do: vote Forumite right now.
strongandbig asked for my thoughts on Forumite/your case. I've got him down as one of my stronger town reads. I think that was a good request for to make, and I've obliged.
You don't need to convince me, right this second, that your case is great or that Forumite is scum. I've said I'm going to go read other games, because I don't like comparisons being made only to a single (mini) game in which Forumite was scum. If I read those games and go, "Gee whiz, Forumite sure is helpful when town and sure isn't playing like he is in LVII!" then I'll be back here voting Forumite.
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EBWOP: "him" in the second chunk there = strongandbig
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On September 10 2012 04:21 austinmcc wrote:
strongandbig asked for my thoughts on Forumite/your case. I've got him down as one of my stronger town reads. I think that was a good request for to make, and I've obliged.
Is that the only thing you're basing a town read on? There has been at least few other cases of "Can I please get some opinions on this case here?".
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On September 10 2012 04:25 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 04:21 austinmcc wrote:
strongandbig asked for my thoughts on Forumite/your case. I've got him down as one of my stronger town reads. I think that was a good request for to make, and I've obliged.
Is that the only thing you're basing a town read on? There has been at least few other cases of "Can I please get some opinions on this case here?". I'll admit that I like the opinion request when made in this way, not "Can I get another opinion?" which just sits empty and people might or might not jump on, but rather "X will you comment on Y's case, Y on X's case?" Clear request. Ought to be answered. Gives information on X and Y, as well as on the strengths/weaknesses of their cases.
A lot of the read comes from minor stuff though, posts that I felt came from a townie:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew Gives a solid response here. There were some other "Mattchew scum cuz he's not defending himself" posts, but snb gaev a more detailed breakdown that I liked, that felt townie to me. On September 07 2012 19:18 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:
strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like.
[snip]
Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.
So why should I in particular be scared of you in particular? Is it because I should be quivering in fear of your particularly stellar scumplay? Cause something about the ridiculous way you died last game makes you seem a lot less scary, as irrational as that is. Now, I'm not sure how you think I'm buddying you. Unless you mean the "we're the only ones in the thread" thing - I see game-related buddying like 'ooh your reads are right on yeah way to lead the town' as being a lot scummier than 'hey man sup in the thread at this european hour or whatever', but whatever. I was actually just going to ignore this whole thing because there's really not much for me to say about it ("you're buddying me! No I'm not! Yes you are!" doesn't really help anything), but it made me think a bit about you this game vs last game, and I wanted to ask something. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:25 Toadesstern wrote:On August 22 2012 03:19 HiroPro wrote:On August 22 2012 03:13 Toadesstern wrote:On August 22 2012 03:06 HiroPro wrote:
Hi toad. Why is your vote on someone who's not going to be lynched today? Why have you not talked about any of the actual cases that have been brought up recently? Because I'm still undecided so far. I'm just don't really like lynching people I never played with before d1 in general so I don't talk about imallinson at all because I want to have more time to get a proper read on him because I don't know what's "normal" for him and what's not. I'm sure you'll find my opinion on every other guy that has been mentioned so far as I actually played with most of the people in this game before. Call a name and I'll copy & paste the quotes but I'm sure you could just search for it yourself. Am I posting too much so that I'm like gonzaw or are you not reading my posts? You haven't said anything about Dirkzor either. I know you've played with Zeph before, VE has brought a case. I guess I just ninja'ed you. Not much of an opinion on Dirkzor right now. He's one of the guys I'd rather have a look at day-2 or day-3. Same goes for Zeph. Last game I wanted to lynch him because I found a couple of posts that read like scumslips to me and he ended up flipping mafia. So pretty much the same as Dirkzor: Rather leave him alive and check out d2 or d3. If he's mafia he'll slip soon enough. I'm really in favor of lynching vets d1 in general. That's why you'll mostly find me comment on those people because I feel more comfortable judging them even with fewer amounts of posts. This is from last game - this game, instead it's Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote:
I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1.
That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline :p What changed? And don't say your alignment, from how highly you talk of your own scum play I know you wouldn't be doing something as simple as coming down on different sides of a policy question as scum vs town. Now in terms of your process of elimination thing - the obvious biggest problem with that is that it assumes you're town. You've done this before, like when we were playing in mtg mafia. You even actually came right out when the last vet was dead other than you and said "but why would I say that as scum, it's setting myself up to be lynched later." That argument worked that time, but it also taught me to watch you when you start talking about vet balance. That said, I think forumite is looking scummier than you are atm. I still really don't like his "don't use meta on vets" comment, and I don't think that's been addressed since I brought it up last time Yeah I think the same person is looking bad as you do even though you just accused me of buddying you, deal with it. Stayed away from the buddying stuff, noticed a contradiction in Toad's policy posting. On September 08 2012 08:20 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 07:28 grush57 wrote:
AWWW SHEEEEEEEEEET.
I KNOW WHY TOAD CALLED ME SCUM
I FORGOT
STARSENSES. lol i was worried Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read. toaaaaad why do you say grush is mafia? ps this is a serious question. grush is like by far the easiest rando free scumread to throw around. Not letting someone get away with "Grush anti-town" or "Grush scum." I think this is major town points, and something I should have been doing harder. I don't like a thread filling up with people parroting a half-read when they don't seem to have taken the time to really substantiate their own thoughts with clear references to what the guy's been doing. On September 09 2012 02:25 strongandbig wrote:
I don't think grush is scum. As far as I can tell the case on him from toad started off as "grush is trying harder to look/be townie than he usually does, therefore he must be scum." The alternative explanation is that maybe he's just trying harder to look/be townie? I played/obsed the recent PTP game, where grush survived until almost the end - that game, trolly as it was, was the towniest grush has ever been.
I'm still not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
The claim, I don't know about. It's a very easy claim for mafia to make, and we can't prove it false or true, especially since he'll be able to claim roleblocked. There's the fact that if he checked the person who was suicide bombed he should be dead, but I give zero weight to the argument that's been made by some people that his claim is too weird to be made by mafia. If the claim is fake, it's possible that he was the one who delivered the KP on BC - or one of the two if he was double stacked - and the claim is designed to be safe against trackers and real watchers.
Anyway, I don't think we should ignore the case on him just because he claimed a PR. I agree with whoever it was up above who said that if we do that, then scum can just always claim PRs and get free extra life by claiming to be roleblocked.
So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe
pre-edit Reading over Austin's post right above mine it looks like some decent arguments on z-boson as well - big lists, not following up on his own stuff, inconsistency, etc. Also someone to consider. Again, finds Grush townie. Which I like. Notices the weakness in any kind of case on Grush. Is wishy-washy on BKE, bad, but goes through some reasoning as to why, chooses a decent line of reasoning to vote on - what's the case before the claim. Not my favorite, but all right.
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On September 10 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:##vote: toad for mayorNo but actually, you bring up a very good point. I played in WoF and Forumite this game does remind me of his play from that game. That said, I think austin's case on z-boson is pretty good as well - he's hedging a lot, and his reasoning around the BKE vote really doesn't make much sense. So toad and austin, since both of you are pretty decent players and regardless of your own alignments are gonna be pretty good at mafia logic, what do you make of each others' cases? One last thing - I don't have all that much time so I was looking through some shorter filters. What do people think of hopeless1der? His filter can be described as - kind of a scummy waffle around the mattchew lynch - tunneling forumite Now, on the one hand I think forumite is a decent scum candidate; but seriously I don't think hopeless has talked about anything else for more than one or two lines. This is a contradiction for me from past games, where hopeless's filter has looked well-thought-out and where it's easy to get a town read on him. Also I feel like there might be a contradiction here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 16:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
Unless someone claims a vig shot on GK, you're supposed to be dead right now. That was worse than Mattchew's claim. insta-reaction was to throw water on bke's claim, even though he already knew a scum with a role could also deliver a factional kp. Now, I also didn't believe bke's claim, but it's not just that he didn't believe it - he discounted it with a reason that he already knew wasn't airtight. Not sure how bad of a contradiction that is but I think it is a contradiction.
That would have been a contradiction, but revisit the thread at that point. BC corrected my understanding of the KP mechanics. What I described in the quoted post was wrong with respect to the vig. Yes I was aware that the bomber could shoot and bomb in the same night.
My reasoning in shitting on BKE's claim was that it meant that between BC and BMB, the only visitors were GK and BKE. It was incredibly farfetched to me that NO ONE ELSE interacted at all between those two NK's. (This assumes GK bombed BMB, which I think is a reasonable assumption)
- No Double-Stack
- Suicide for 1 kill
- 2nd Scum KP unaccounted for (unless ottoxl-...Yeah, 2nd scum KP unaccounted for)
--> On second thought, BC and BMB could have been shot and GK suicided into Otto trying to catch a vig or something.
Whatever, the point is I basically found the claim to make little to no sense given the flips available.
For the amount of shit BKE was getting, he made very little effort to save himself and my read continued to get stronger as time went on with him not really posting or defending himself. It's not like we RNG'd his name, he had lots to respond to and neglected to do so.
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On September 10 2012 04:36 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 04:25 Kreb wrote:On September 10 2012 04:21 austinmcc wrote:
strongandbig asked for my thoughts on Forumite/your case. I've got him down as one of my stronger town reads. I think that was a good request for to make, and I've obliged.
Is that the only thing you're basing a town read on? There has been at least few other cases of "Can I please get some opinions on this case here?". I'll admit that I like the opinion request when made in this way, not "Can I get another opinion?" which just sits empty and people might or might not jump on, but rather "X will you comment on Y's case, Y on X's case?" Clear request. Ought to be answered. Gives information on X and Y, as well as on the strengths/weaknesses of their cases. A lot of the read comes from minor stuff though, posts that I felt came from a townie: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew Gives a solid response here. There were some other "Mattchew scum cuz he's not defending himself" posts, but snb gaev a more detailed breakdown that I liked, that felt townie to me. On September 07 2012 19:18 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:
strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like.
[snip]
Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.
So why should I in particular be scared of you in particular? Is it because I should be quivering in fear of your particularly stellar scumplay? Cause something about the ridiculous way you died last game makes you seem a lot less scary, as irrational as that is. Now, I'm not sure how you think I'm buddying you. Unless you mean the "we're the only ones in the thread" thing - I see game-related buddying like 'ooh your reads are right on yeah way to lead the town' as being a lot scummier than 'hey man sup in the thread at this european hour or whatever', but whatever. I was actually just going to ignore this whole thing because there's really not much for me to say about it ("you're buddying me! No I'm not! Yes you are!" doesn't really help anything), but it made me think a bit about you this game vs last game, and I wanted to ask something. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:25 Toadesstern wrote:On August 22 2012 03:19 HiroPro wrote:On August 22 2012 03:13 Toadesstern wrote:On August 22 2012 03:06 HiroPro wrote:
Hi toad. Why is your vote on someone who's not going to be lynched today? Why have you not talked about any of the actual cases that have been brought up recently? Because I'm still undecided so far. I'm just don't really like lynching people I never played with before d1 in general so I don't talk about imallinson at all because I want to have more time to get a proper read on him because I don't know what's "normal" for him and what's not. I'm sure you'll find my opinion on every other guy that has been mentioned so far as I actually played with most of the people in this game before. Call a name and I'll copy & paste the quotes but I'm sure you could just search for it yourself. Am I posting too much so that I'm like gonzaw or are you not reading my posts? You haven't said anything about Dirkzor either. I know you've played with Zeph before, VE has brought a case. I guess I just ninja'ed you. Not much of an opinion on Dirkzor right now. He's one of the guys I'd rather have a look at day-2 or day-3. Same goes for Zeph. Last game I wanted to lynch him because I found a couple of posts that read like scumslips to me and he ended up flipping mafia. So pretty much the same as Dirkzor: Rather leave him alive and check out d2 or d3. If he's mafia he'll slip soon enough. I'm really in favor of lynching vets d1 in general. That's why you'll mostly find me comment on those people because I feel more comfortable judging them even with fewer amounts of posts. This is from last game - this game, instead it's Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote:
I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1.
That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline :p What changed? And don't say your alignment, from how highly you talk of your own scum play I know you wouldn't be doing something as simple as coming down on different sides of a policy question as scum vs town. Now in terms of your process of elimination thing - the obvious biggest problem with that is that it assumes you're town. You've done this before, like when we were playing in mtg mafia. You even actually came right out when the last vet was dead other than you and said "but why would I say that as scum, it's setting myself up to be lynched later." That argument worked that time, but it also taught me to watch you when you start talking about vet balance. That said, I think forumite is looking scummier than you are atm. I still really don't like his "don't use meta on vets" comment, and I don't think that's been addressed since I brought it up last time Yeah I think the same person is looking bad as you do even though you just accused me of buddying you, deal with it. Stayed away from the buddying stuff, noticed a contradiction in Toad's policy posting. On September 08 2012 08:20 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 07:28 grush57 wrote:
AWWW SHEEEEEEEEEET.
I KNOW WHY TOAD CALLED ME SCUM
I FORGOT
STARSENSES. lol i was worried Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read. toaaaaad why do you say grush is mafia? ps this is a serious question. grush is like by far the easiest rando free scumread to throw around. Not letting someone get away with "Grush anti-town" or "Grush scum." I think this is major town points, and something I should have been doing harder. I don't like a thread filling up with people parroting a half-read when they don't seem to have taken the time to really substantiate their own thoughts with clear references to what the guy's been doing. On September 09 2012 02:25 strongandbig wrote:
I don't think grush is scum. As far as I can tell the case on him from toad started off as "grush is trying harder to look/be townie than he usually does, therefore he must be scum." The alternative explanation is that maybe he's just trying harder to look/be townie? I played/obsed the recent PTP game, where grush survived until almost the end - that game, trolly as it was, was the towniest grush has ever been.
I'm still not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
The claim, I don't know about. It's a very easy claim for mafia to make, and we can't prove it false or true, especially since he'll be able to claim roleblocked. There's the fact that if he checked the person who was suicide bombed he should be dead, but I give zero weight to the argument that's been made by some people that his claim is too weird to be made by mafia. If the claim is fake, it's possible that he was the one who delivered the KP on BC - or one of the two if he was double stacked - and the claim is designed to be safe against trackers and real watchers.
Anyway, I don't think we should ignore the case on him just because he claimed a PR. I agree with whoever it was up above who said that if we do that, then scum can just always claim PRs and get free extra life by claiming to be roleblocked.
So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe
pre-edit Reading over Austin's post right above mine it looks like some decent arguments on z-boson as well - big lists, not following up on his own stuff, inconsistency, etc. Also someone to consider. Again, finds Grush townie. Which I like. Notices the weakness in any kind of case on Grush. Is wishy-washy on BKE, bad, but goes through some reasoning as to why, chooses a decent line of reasoning to vote on - what's the case before the claim. Not my favorite, but all right.
Agreed on the "feeling" townish. But I cant help noticing S&B seemed to be opposed to Toads claim of him buddying Toad, and then follows it up by "voting Toad for mayor". Though maybe thats all small talk.
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On September 10 2012 04:50 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 04:36 austinmcc wrote:On September 10 2012 04:25 Kreb wrote:On September 10 2012 04:21 austinmcc wrote:
strongandbig asked for my thoughts on Forumite/your case. I've got him down as one of my stronger town reads. I think that was a good request for to make, and I've obliged.
Is that the only thing you're basing a town read on? There has been at least few other cases of "Can I please get some opinions on this case here?". I'll admit that I like the opinion request when made in this way, not "Can I get another opinion?" which just sits empty and people might or might not jump on, but rather "X will you comment on Y's case, Y on X's case?" Clear request. Ought to be answered. Gives information on X and Y, as well as on the strengths/weaknesses of their cases. A lot of the read comes from minor stuff though, posts that I felt came from a townie: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew Gives a solid response here. There were some other "Mattchew scum cuz he's not defending himself" posts, but snb gaev a more detailed breakdown that I liked, that felt townie to me. On September 07 2012 19:18 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:
strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like.
[snip]
Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.
So why should I in particular be scared of you in particular? Is it because I should be quivering in fear of your particularly stellar scumplay? Cause something about the ridiculous way you died last game makes you seem a lot less scary, as irrational as that is. Now, I'm not sure how you think I'm buddying you. Unless you mean the "we're the only ones in the thread" thing - I see game-related buddying like 'ooh your reads are right on yeah way to lead the town' as being a lot scummier than 'hey man sup in the thread at this european hour or whatever', but whatever. I was actually just going to ignore this whole thing because there's really not much for me to say about it ("you're buddying me! No I'm not! Yes you are!" doesn't really help anything), but it made me think a bit about you this game vs last game, and I wanted to ask something. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:25 Toadesstern wrote:On August 22 2012 03:19 HiroPro wrote:On August 22 2012 03:13 Toadesstern wrote:On August 22 2012 03:06 HiroPro wrote:
Hi toad. Why is your vote on someone who's not going to be lynched today? Why have you not talked about any of the actual cases that have been brought up recently? Because I'm still undecided so far. I'm just don't really like lynching people I never played with before d1 in general so I don't talk about imallinson at all because I want to have more time to get a proper read on him because I don't know what's "normal" for him and what's not. I'm sure you'll find my opinion on every other guy that has been mentioned so far as I actually played with most of the people in this game before. Call a name and I'll copy & paste the quotes but I'm sure you could just search for it yourself. Am I posting too much so that I'm like gonzaw or are you not reading my posts? You haven't said anything about Dirkzor either. I know you've played with Zeph before, VE has brought a case. I guess I just ninja'ed you. Not much of an opinion on Dirkzor right now. He's one of the guys I'd rather have a look at day-2 or day-3. Same goes for Zeph. Last game I wanted to lynch him because I found a couple of posts that read like scumslips to me and he ended up flipping mafia. So pretty much the same as Dirkzor: Rather leave him alive and check out d2 or d3. If he's mafia he'll slip soon enough. I'm really in favor of lynching vets d1 in general. That's why you'll mostly find me comment on those people because I feel more comfortable judging them even with fewer amounts of posts. This is from last game - this game, instead it's Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote:
I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1.
That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline :p What changed? And don't say your alignment, from how highly you talk of your own scum play I know you wouldn't be doing something as simple as coming down on different sides of a policy question as scum vs town. Now in terms of your process of elimination thing - the obvious biggest problem with that is that it assumes you're town. You've done this before, like when we were playing in mtg mafia. You even actually came right out when the last vet was dead other than you and said "but why would I say that as scum, it's setting myself up to be lynched later." That argument worked that time, but it also taught me to watch you when you start talking about vet balance. That said, I think forumite is looking scummier than you are atm. I still really don't like his "don't use meta on vets" comment, and I don't think that's been addressed since I brought it up last time Yeah I think the same person is looking bad as you do even though you just accused me of buddying you, deal with it. Stayed away from the buddying stuff, noticed a contradiction in Toad's policy posting. On September 08 2012 08:20 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 07:28 grush57 wrote:
AWWW SHEEEEEEEEEET.
I KNOW WHY TOAD CALLED ME SCUM
I FORGOT
STARSENSES. lol i was worried Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read. toaaaaad why do you say grush is mafia? ps this is a serious question. grush is like by far the easiest rando free scumread to throw around. Not letting someone get away with "Grush anti-town" or "Grush scum." I think this is major town points, and something I should have been doing harder. I don't like a thread filling up with people parroting a half-read when they don't seem to have taken the time to really substantiate their own thoughts with clear references to what the guy's been doing. On September 09 2012 02:25 strongandbig wrote:
I don't think grush is scum. As far as I can tell the case on him from toad started off as "grush is trying harder to look/be townie than he usually does, therefore he must be scum." The alternative explanation is that maybe he's just trying harder to look/be townie? I played/obsed the recent PTP game, where grush survived until almost the end - that game, trolly as it was, was the towniest grush has ever been.
I'm still not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
The claim, I don't know about. It's a very easy claim for mafia to make, and we can't prove it false or true, especially since he'll be able to claim roleblocked. There's the fact that if he checked the person who was suicide bombed he should be dead, but I give zero weight to the argument that's been made by some people that his claim is too weird to be made by mafia. If the claim is fake, it's possible that he was the one who delivered the KP on BC - or one of the two if he was double stacked - and the claim is designed to be safe against trackers and real watchers.
Anyway, I don't think we should ignore the case on him just because he claimed a PR. I agree with whoever it was up above who said that if we do that, then scum can just always claim PRs and get free extra life by claiming to be roleblocked.
So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe
pre-edit Reading over Austin's post right above mine it looks like some decent arguments on z-boson as well - big lists, not following up on his own stuff, inconsistency, etc. Also someone to consider. Again, finds Grush townie. Which I like. Notices the weakness in any kind of case on Grush. Is wishy-washy on BKE, bad, but goes through some reasoning as to why, chooses a decent line of reasoning to vote on - what's the case before the claim. Not my favorite, but all right. Agreed on the "feeling" townish. But I cant help noticing S&B seemed to be opposed to Toads claim of him buddying Toad, and then follows it up by "voting Toad for mayor". Though maybe thats all small talk. I read joke, based on Toad's tiny "vote me for mayor" text. I almost responded in the same way.
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Toad
I like you so much, that I've even gone over your filter again.
Here's a section just for you, since you like attention
Toad's Case on Forumite
On September 10 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:I've got a little task for people, read this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330925Also make sure to read the obs-QT and especially Syllos opinion on forumite ( click me!) I know I don't usually ask people to read older games because it's a pain in the ass but this one is important.When you're done reading I want you to think about forumite. There's 4 major things that come to my mind when thinking about forumite: - He is cautious when posting
- He is only posting when he has to
- He is isn't interested in what's going on or helping town at all
- He's doing apeshit right now
It's the very same thing we had in WoF. Town-Forumite is useful, good and will do STUFF. Can you think of one important post forumite has done this game? Just one that instantly pops into your mind? I can't without having his filter opened because there's really not much that sticks out. His most important post probably was this: + Show Spoiler [click me] +On September 09 2012 06:32 Forumite wrote:
Kreb (Miltonkram) (0)
Hapahauli
BroodKingEXE (16)
Hapahauli
slOosh
imallinson
Shady Sands
Hopeless1der
ShiaoPi
Rewok
DoYouHas
Maverick32x
grush57
Forumite
Gravan
Toadesstern
grush57
strongandbig
grush57
Toadesstern
Shady Sands
Z-BosoN
Kreb (Miltonkram)
DoYouHas (1)
Bill Murray
ShiaoPi (0)
Maverick32x
Maverick32x (0)
BroodKingEXE
Shady Sands (0)
grush57
grush57 (1)
DarthPunk
Toadesstern
Shady Sands
Z-BosoN (2)
grush57
austinmcc
BroodKingEXE
Not yet voted! (1)
Lvdr (mkfuba07) LOL I already quoted this but just as an example for this, you'll find multiple posts like the following in his filter: Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 10:18 Forumite wrote:
@Toades
After the D2-post you said you didn´t like the case on me provided by Hapless and Hapa, but you still thought I was probably scum. The only reason I remember was elimination, out of the people you stated are vets they are either dead or me, and those who died flipped town. Is that your case, "There should be scum among the vets, and now that some flipped town, the living ones are probably scum"? Because it´s a very convenient thing to say for scum, if people say there must be scum in a group, then scum kill half the group if it´s full of town, and leave it alone if there´s a scum in it so their buddy can hide better. I´m not saying that´s what happened, but it´s shaky to claim this early in a game that the last survivor of a group of must be scum event though the others flipped town.
Apart from that you said you thought I wasn´t as aggressive as usual. Partly that is because I don´t keep myself as updated as I usually do due to more stuff happening IRL than usual, but I also don´t want to make the mistake I did in DF-Mafia.
Anyway you need more reasons to you call me scum. What is it? You'll find stuff like that all over his filter. He's always making sure to have a possible retreat when posting and not committing in the slightest.
He only really posts when he has to:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:48 Forumite wrote:
=(
Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 08:17 Forumite wrote:On September 07 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote:On September 07 2012 07:48 Forumite wrote:
=(
Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now. I don't consider the case on you to be good and I don't agree with it. I want to lynch you because of method or elimination. So I'd rather see you talk about targets for today. I have two scumreads right now. I had Ottox down as scum, I was wrong but it shouldn´t affect the other reads. They are both based on the time around Matts claim. The first one is Maverick for his first post in the game, it was a reaction to Matts claim and the situation around it, and he was basically trying to divert attention to everyone else, without committing to anything. The second one is Hapa for his posts during the same time. The post below sums it up well. On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? When I read this post at first, I see Hapa buddying up with Matt and throwing suspicion on those attacking him. It didn´t feel right, Matt claiming didn´t arouse any suspicion in him. He said hi to Matt and then chided those attacking him. That´s the ones that jumped out at me when reading the thread. Yes, I should reread all the spam from yesterday, I´ll see about that tomorrow. tl;dr: Hapahauli
Maverick32x That's something we rarely see when looking through foru's filter: He's talking about his read after being pressured by me and giving some minor insight on what he thinks is happening. However, why is that only happening after I call him out as mafia? I tell people he's mafia, he instantly gets in the thread and posts something like that when all the time people weren't talking about him he did nothing like that. That my dear friends is scummy as shit
As mentioned I don't think he's interested in what's happening. I can't remember a significant post foru did because there was none. He isn't even trying to help. No "shut up guys, here's what's going on: XXXX, Therefore we lynch Y". No pushing his reads to make sure the best possible lynch ends up happening. He's just completly standing by, posting some minor things if he has to but nothing else. Town-Foru would be interested in what's going on. Town-Foru would be pushing his reads. Town-Foru would be actively trying to help town and not just stand by.
It's just the same thing as WoF. He was mafia in that game and did apeshit. For some reason he never ended up being lynched although Sandroba and I called him mafia straight from d1 and sadly nothing happened. Let me assure you, Foru would be doing SOMETHING to help if he was town. He isn't. Forumite is mafia Also vote me for mayor
So, the main argument against forumite is that he has not being helping out with the thread and being useful. Of course, this by itself would be useless, but given your understanding of his meta, this is completely absurd for a town forumite. Is this correct?
I've gone over his filter, and I do agree he's not been too useful. He simply steered along with the thread all game. His only two cases were weak and he didn't go through with them at all. During the day, I'll see if his differences in meta are big enough to actually make him scum.
What's nagging at me, is that you completely shat on hopeless1's case, saying you didn't like cases against vet's in general. Also, in his case, there are some parts where he mentions some of the things you did on his case against forumite. If you were inclined to think that forumite is scum, why didn't you give emphasis to some of those parts?
Comments on Toad's answers from a while back
On September 08 2012 08:06 Toadesstern wrote:About the conclusion: I agree / agreed with the conclusion that Foru is mafia. Not sure what to make of him considering the most recent BKE posts though. 1 +2 ) Yeah. It was a "trap" if you want. I wanted to see whether they went for the easy way and just attack me with the usual "but toad is unreadable"-fear mongering or if they did not. Yeah I'd consider fear mongering a mafia trait when talking about vets, so yes I would have definitely attacked someone like Foru if he had done that. I see this as a weak and unconvincing trap... I think it's very presumptuous, but whatever. 3) I never said I don't want to target vets (I think?). I obviously didn't mess around with talking about something like that d1 because we had a confirmed mafia. What point would there be in lynching someone else. I considered the case on him weak because I didn't think what was mentioned (some specific points in the case, not everything but a bunch) was alignment indicating considering who we were talking about. I didn't get into detail with what I disagree about the case because I obviously want Foru to talk about it. Why would I want to defend him if I think he's mafia (for different reasons)? After all that's more chances for him to show poor performance, no matter if the case in question was decent or not to begin with. Ok, you said you didn't like cases against vets in general, considering we are in day on1:
I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1.
That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline
But it still feels a little weird, considering you were thinking that forumite is scum. Anyways, you are being fairly consistent in this regard, so whatever, I choose to believe you here.4) Again, I'm okay with targeting vets I just haven't found anything that screams mafia at me when going through forus filter, yet I've got the feeling he is + I've got the feeling the rest of the vets are looking way better. Combine those two and I'm feeling quite good about lynching him in general. It's a question of who looks the worst and explaining why we should lynch foru is just hard to do right now. When we've got other people who I'd consider to be about equally scummy right now that's just not worth the fuss. Especially if my "feeling" on foru is so vague it's really going to be a pain in the ass to explain why I want him dead right now. a)So now you have done it. I was hoping you wouldn't so I could try to destroy you later... actually, when I insisted that vets should be posting, your case on foru was more of what I had in mind.5) I'd say / I thought one of them will end up being mafia, yeah. But the most recent BKE talk is making me a little uncertain here. It's something with a lot of different things taking into consideration like meta, balance and whatever else so if people like BKE / S&B, who are good as well, are considered vets I might have to scratch that though. Given that I don't think very highly of those 2 right now I'm still trying to figure out what's the best target for today and wether or not that assumption from yesterday was correct or if I should forget it for the time being and just stick to "traditional" targets, aka the one we've got cases on. b*) So you DO think that one of forumite or BM will end up being mafia. In this case, forumite. What can you tell us about Bill Murray? Because he's so useless up to now that it's annoying. If you aren't targeting him, that means that he is consistent with his meta, yes? Tell us more. 5.5) I thought he's feeling quite alright about me before he did his most recent post, which I considered to be odd because he saw my most recent games as mafia. In PTP3 I played quite decently as mafia, he was in that game as well. In Magic I totally destroyed town on my own manipulating town. Same thing happened in the infamous Annul-game. I get that people who haven't played with me a lot don't know these things but like other vets he should know himself that I'm pretty decent as mafia. Basicly I expected him to go in this game with a bias (at least a little one) thinking I'm mafia no matter what given what the most recent games happened. I just didn't see that happening. c*) So, do you still feel strongly about S&B? I've made a case on him below, after going over his filter and finding one particularly suspicious post, tell me what you think of it/him.6) Yes as mentioned, it's quite a luxury problem we've got today: We've got a lot of good lynches. There's bound to be townies within those possible lynches and it's about who truely is the best for today. 7) Well not particually hard if you're in a 30 player game and you end up calling 100% of the vets mafia + 10 random other people. Surely you've got to be right about some :p
And one last thing: z) Who are you top scum reads at the moment, besides forumite?
At the moment, I still think you stink, mainly due to your "goodbye post". But you seem very consistent, so for now, I will consider you townie.
Suspicious reads at the moment
strongandbig
Mainly because of his post:
On September 09 2012 02:25 strongandbig wrote:
I don't think grush is scum. As far as I can tell the case on him from toad started off as "grush is trying harder to look/be townie than he usually does, therefore he must be scum." The alternative explanation is that maybe he's just trying harder to look/be townie? I played/obsed the recent PTP game, where grush survived until almost the end - that game, trolly as it was, was the towniest grush has ever been.
I'm still not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
The claim, I don't know about. It's a very easy claim for mafia to make, and we can't prove it false or true, especially since he'll be able to claim roleblocked. There's the fact that if he checked the person who was suicide bombed he should be dead, but I give zero weight to the argument that's been made by some people that his claim is too weird to be made by mafia. If the claim is fake, it's possible that he was the one who delivered the KP on BC - or one of the two if he was double stacked - and the claim is designed to be safe against trackers and real watchers.
Anyway, I don't think we should ignore the case on him just because he claimed a PR. I agree with whoever it was up above who said that if we do that, then scum can just always claim PRs and get free extra life by claiming to be roleblocked.
So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe
pre-edit Reading over Austin's post right above mine it looks like some decent arguments on z-boson as well - big lists, not following up on his own stuff, inconsistency, etc. Also someone to consider.
This has the most contradictions I've ever seen.
1) I don't think grush is scum.
2) I'm not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
3) So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe.
WHAT??? How does that even make sense?? This looks to me more like a scumslip. He must have felt that grush was too easy a target to go for as scum, and really wanted to go for BKE. This sheep is the most casual looking one I've seen. BLah, we should just ignore his claim, otherwise scum will always do that... sure it's not 100% but whatever, now I like that case better than the case on grush."
Just wow on that one. He doens't make a case on anyone (his hopeless post above is the first real attempt at a case, and he simply follows that guy's cases on me, just spouting out keywords and not taking a stance. This looks quite scummy to me.
EDIT: actually, now that hopeless mentions it, doesn't anyone find this kissing-ass-ery very odd between S&B and that guy? This shit is disgusting:
On September 10 2012 04:21 that guy wrote:
strongandbig asked for my thoughts on Forumite/your case. I've got him down as one of my stronger town reads. I think that was a good request for to make, and I've obliged.
This needs more explanations I would think.
maverickx
Well, I already had my initial case on him:
On September 06 2012 08:18 Z-BosoN wrote:Let me! let me! First of all, you post this: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 00:41 Maverick32x wrote:
Well, I must of skimmed past the FoS on me from Bill Murray, so I'll weigh in a bit.
The reason I was hesitant to jump on Matt was because 'bad play' doesn't equal Scum play. And our goal is to hunt Scum, not hunt bad players. That being said, lying goes a bit beyond 'bad' and starts to seem more scummy.
@Broodking- I re-read your post like 10 times and I have no idea what point you're trying to make...
These seem like soft-defending attempts on your scum buddy. You are on the same train as Graven, you figured out it wasn't a good idea to defend him and backed off. But these arguments are weak, if I want to judge someone strictly on defending a now-confirmed scum, then I wouldn't bother with anyone else other than Ox. However: You DON'T SCUMHUNT!Show nested quote +This is a huge red flag to me.... how is that ONLY something that scum does? I agree with everything else you've written.. but using those sort of generalizations really makes me suspicious. So now you say that you have a huge red flag and it really makes you suspicious. Yet, you don't make a single post later on, to anyone else. You just seemingly forget all about s&b and the huge red flag you have on him. If you were townie I'm sure you would be more focused into attacking someone you have a huge red flag on than on defending yourself. You show more interest in defending yourself than in making cases and scumhunting. And thus, your first non-casual FOS: ##FOS Maverick
And now we have this:
On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote:Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective. I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning... Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? Its basically a miller role that the town knows about why not? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:52 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:--snipped-- On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement. This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves. So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!!
This ending right there is ridiculous. He's a lurker, a bad one, and his confirmation on BKE is quite weak. I can see him being just a very bad town, but I still think he's scum.
Top vigi shots at the moment
I mentioned I'm all for a "general lurker with some scumminess on him". I still think that. The top scum shots, right now, for me would be, in order of preference:
Maverickx - Fits the bill perfectly.
ShiaoPi - I agree with hapa on him
grush07 - He's useless, doesn't help, and unlike BM, is not a vet, and thus should die. Many people here think he's townie. If he is, well, he's sure not acting like it.
mkfuba - Lvdr and mkfuba, in a almost 80-page game, have two useless posts. If they are scum, we cannot find out, and it would be stupid to waste a watch or a track on him.
Rewok + Gravan They are low on this list because I think they might be town. I actually only put this here because some people (aka imallinson) seem to think not.
Will probably make another post before nightfall. Let me know if you guys heavily disagree with anything here.
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Funny you posted that right now Z-Boson :p
I was just done reading strongandbigs filter, and I did notice a lack of cases on anyone throughout the thread. So I do agree on that point, but mostly was gonna keep it in mind until later while I just commented on the buddying thing. But I dont quite see the problem with his reasoning on why to vote on BKE over Grush. He had two main options, liked one more than the other and there are plenty of reason not to start a completely new case from scratch even had he had one. Why doesnt it make sense?
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Oh Z-Boson, you are so confused.
S&B was not contradicting himself at all in that post.
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In the same post, he has a contradiction:
1) I don't think grush is scum.
grush isn't scum.
2) I'm not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
he think grush isn't scum, but BKE is even less scummier, because he feels better about BKE than on grush.
3) So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe.
And now BKE is scummier than grush? Didn't he feel much better about BKE?
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HOW NOT?? Unless "feeling better about BKE" = I want him dead, I don't see how there is no contradiction...
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 10 2012 05:26 Z-BosoN wrote:.
2) I'm not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
he think grush isn't scum, but BKE is even less scummier, because he feels better about BKE than on grush.
I think you're misunderstanding him there. I read that as he feels better about a BKE lynch not he feels better about BKE.
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He "feels better" about lynching BKE. Because lynching scum is a good thing, if you're town.
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Feeling better about lynching someone =/= feeling better about someone.
But given the context, I guess you could assume that. Hoo boy someone's gonna have a field day with this one.
I retract this argument, but the point regarding him just being swayed into reads other than making them stands.
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EPT
