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On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that.
It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target.
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On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target.
Doesn't this also mean that scum could read anyone who defends BKE heavily as a potential medic?
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On September 08 2012 23:48 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:On September 08 2012 23:41 austinmcc wrote:On September 08 2012 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Supposedly mafia only used 1KP yesterday. BC got killed by suicidebomber. I hiiiiighly doubt ottox was a mafiahit and think he was hit by town, which leaves us with DrH. But According to BKE only one guy visited him and he did not get doublestacked. Neither do we have a claim from someone else who got protected or shot n1. So one shot is missing
This. GK as suicide bomber could still deliver a kill. And if you're scum and you lose mattchew D1, you're suiciding GK N1, you're 100% gonna use him as a shooter because he can't get caught delivering a kill, he's gonna be dead. We're basically narrowed down to BM24 being double stacked and BKE lying OR BM24 single shot, BKE watcher, and a medic save. Unless mafia shot Ottoxlol, which seems...unlikely.
On September 08 2012 23:29 Shady Sands wrote:Other than BKE, my other main read is GRush. It starts here: On September 06 2012 07:50 grush57 wrote:
K.
Medics on Toad and BC and BM.
Vigi kill in the pool of scummy people/ scummylurkers.
Ex: Ottox, Maverick, Do you has.
This comes before GK suicide bombs into BC/BM. To me it almost sounds like he was trying to draw a blue into the bombing. I'm pretty sure Grush wasn't the only one doing that. Toad did it at one point (or multiple points), everyone and their mother discussed vigi shots on half the town. Morning laziness means I'm not finding those quotes for you, but I'm almost certain there were a decent number of similar posts, but less concise. If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? Any yes you're correct, I said something along those lines as well. I said I want medics on BC+myself. Got it. I just found it strange that both of the N1 kills were listed in his post requesting medic protection, and part of the N1 body count was delivered via suicide bomber. Oh, I don't think it's wrong to find that strange at all. It's not enough for toad to be scum, and I'm paranoid so I'm trying not to buy into it, but it certainly looks bad to ask town's blues to congregate on a couple people, one of whom was then suicided. It's been in the back of my head.
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On September 08 2012 23:51 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target. Doesn't this also mean that scum could read anyone who defends BKE heavily as a potential medic? I guess it increases the chances, yeah.
Also hadn't thought about that, and wish you hadn't mentioned, lol.
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On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target.
Not the medic is supposed to claim. The guy who got hit should claim being hit, if there is someone like that to begin with.
That doesn't reveal the medic. It gives an almost confirmed townie for the medics point of view and a decent town read for everyone else judging the guy.
There's no reason not to claim being hit as a townie, therefore I'd say there was noone being hit and we've got another screw up lol.
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On September 08 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target. Not the medic is supposed to claim. The guy who got hit should claim being hit, if there is someone like that to begin with. That doesn't reveal the medic. It gives an almost confirmed townie for the medics point of view and a decent town read for everyone else judging the guy. There's no reason not to claim being hit as a townie, therefore I'd say there was noone being hit and we've got another screw up lol. Gotcha.
OP so sparse  We had no claims of being roleblocked, even though we might have jailers and might have roleblockers. And no claimed hit. There's some chance that the person doesn't get notified of a hit, although that seems out of the ordinary. But we're missing any RB info, regardless of whether we're also missing a hit if BKE isn't scum.
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On September 09 2012 00:03 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote:On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target. Not the medic is supposed to claim. The guy who got hit should claim being hit, if there is someone like that to begin with. That doesn't reveal the medic. It gives an almost confirmed townie for the medics point of view and a decent town read for everyone else judging the guy. There's no reason not to claim being hit as a townie, therefore I'd say there was noone being hit and we've got another screw up lol. Gotcha. OP so sparse We had no claims of being roleblocked, even though we might have jailers and might have roleblockers. And no claimed hit. There's some chance that the person doesn't get notified of a hit, although that seems out of the ordinary. But we're missing any RB info, regardless of whether we're also missing a hit if BKE isn't scum.
Are you guys sure a townie who is hit but medic saved will know about it?
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oh that's right. Could be there's no notifications at all. But if that's the case the medic wouldn't even know himself and as you mentioned that really would be out of the ordinary.
However, I still consider it weird that BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC according to BKE.
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On September 09 2012 00:07 Toadesstern wrote:
oh that's right. Could be there's no notifications at all. But if that's the case the medic wouldn't even know himself and as you mentioned that really would be out of the ordinary.
However, I still consider it weird that BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC according to BKE.
Agreed. That claim does not make BKE look any less scummy imo.
What do you think about GRush?
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On September 09 2012 00:11 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:07 Toadesstern wrote:
oh that's right. Could be there's no notifications at all. But if that's the case the medic wouldn't even know himself and as you mentioned that really would be out of the ordinary.
However, I still consider it weird that BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC according to BKE. Agreed. That claim does not make BKE look any less scummy imo. What do you think about GRush?
On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read.
hasn't changed that much.
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On September 09 2012 00:13 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:11 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 00:07 Toadesstern wrote:
oh that's right. Could be there's no notifications at all. But if that's the case the medic wouldn't even know himself and as you mentioned that really would be out of the ordinary.
However, I still consider it weird that BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC according to BKE. Agreed. That claim does not make BKE look any less scummy imo. What do you think about GRush? Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read. hasn't changed that much.
Beautiful. No matter which way BKE flips let's lynch/vigi that other bastard too.
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That's what I was getting at Shady but my coffee mug still isn't empty this morning. We don't know if there are notifications, and the fact that we have no RB claims might indicate that we don't.
Toad, I think the medic would know on some level. Mattchew got lynched and GK suicided, no way do you hold a shot N1 for mindgames in that situation.
So if we had a medic protect a legitimate target, the medic knows that either (1) BKE claimed something that could be proven false by pure setup/flip information and the medic didn't stop a shot OR (2) he stopped a shot. Right?
Actually...the fact that BKE's claim is so wrong is making me kind of wonder. I haven't voted but he looked bad, was planning on voting him. Pretty ballsy play as scum to claim someone that's so demonstrably false just based on flips.
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Also, I'm pretty surprised that some people went into the thread loudly talking about lynching lurkers, but never pointed a finger at me in spite of the fact that I was playing so lurky and so far off my meta.
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I've had a few questions about this.
No one is notified of anything they don't absolutely need to know in this game. This is how I generally run my games.
examples:
You will not be told if you're roleblocked.
You will not be told if you got saved.
You will not be told that you made a save.
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On September 09 2012 00:18 Palmar wrote:
I've had a few questions about this.
No one is notified of anything they don't absolutely need to know in this game. This is how I generally run my games.
examples:
You will not be told if you're roleblocked.
You will not be told if you got saved.
You will not be told that you made a save.
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim...
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Kreb replaces miltonkram, effective immediately
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On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything.
I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts.
Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops.
Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim.
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Mav
I view his stances on Matthew and I have been really wishy-washy, most likely scum not wanting to fully commit yet stay on the safe side of the lynch.
On September 07 2012 22:05 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 20:51 Forumite wrote:On September 07 2012 13:12 Maverick32x wrote:
@Forumite-
I guess we have different perspectives when it comes to scum hunting? The majority of players are town.. so wouldn't it be smarter to do some 'innocent until proven guilty'? As opposed to just blasting everyone because everyone else is doing it?
All this being said- I'm wondering if we should just lynch a lurker? I feel like allowing scum to lurk is a bad plan? I don´t think you are paranoid enough for this game. Everyone is a possible scum until they are confirmed or flip. If two players attack eachother, then you look at the conversation to get a feel if one of them are scummy, a case and a defence against that case is a source of information, but if you interfere in a way that shuts down the conversation, then that opportunity for information and analysis disappear. As for lurker lynch, why don´t you want to lynch me? You called me scum after the daypost. Because you're posting. And that's atleast an indication of some kind of engagement. BKE has fluffy posts, defends Matt a bit, and then just kinda floats around....however, I'm sticking with my lurking instincts and just going to take ShiaoPi out.
He thinks Im a lurker (below ShiaoPi) and has an opinion on me. But he doesn't see me as scummy quite yet.
Mav 1
Shiao 1
Mav 2
Read these two posts, he is suspicious of Shiao for "Trusting others reads". The second post suggests that he is worried about a bandwagon, strange that he doesn't comment on that himself.
On September 08 2012 02:19 Maverick32x wrote:
Wow. Sorry for my awful grammar .. on the phone on a train....
I'll switch to BKE... But I agree there are a lot of good cases existing...
His turning point to me, Hapa's case. The same case in which he was suspicious of Shiao following. The fact that he replied meant that he didn't take the case as a good reason to vote for me. Therefore it makes no sense for him to vote for me.
On September 08 2012 04:38 Maverick32x wrote:
Is the vote deadline at 5pm cst?
I'm really struggling with a BKE lynch the more its discussed... Anyone else have thoughts?
I really think Hap is town- but I'm just not sure on his read... I'm in a training so just trying to post on breaks...
This post can be read two ways
1: He is not sure of Hapa's read on me. (The reason he voted for me)
2: He is not sure of Hapa's alignment, which is basically questioning the read.
The whole reason he votes for me at this point is that Hapa's read is the lynchpin, yet he doubts the read left and right.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote:Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective. I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning... Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? Its basically a miller role that the town knows about why not? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:52 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:--snipped-- On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement. This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves. So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!!
His first reason behind voting for me is that he is "suspicious" of my soft defending. He's still not willing to commit, even putting in a point that doesn't even strike him as necassarily scummy. The second point doesn't make sense either, there's a difference between a hard push and a soft push. Toad was doing what I considered at the time a soft push, he later explained that his slo0sh "push" was drawing reaction. Ottox wasn't doing any pushing just trying to move the lynch to god knows who (since he never made a strong push). How is asking Ottox to find scum, scummy? Doesn't any townie have to make claims, so there's nothing wrong with asking Ottox to post his reads. He then finishes off his post with another point of doubt, doesn't even finish with saying Im scum!
Mav doesn't want to commit to killing any townie. He is scum: ##Vote: Maverick32x
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Sigh, STARSENSES PEOPLE.
I realized it too, whenever I post like 5 times ina row it just completely shits up the thread. The lvdr thing was because when I was going to look at BKE's filter I saw lvdr and a bunch of other lurkers. I NEVER hard defended him I just pointed out a flaw in your case. When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now.
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On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote:
When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now.
Why?
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EPT
