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On September 09 2012 01:35 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:32 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:On September 09 2012 01:21 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:15 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm thinking about this claim and I've got to say I don't like lynching BKE right now although I said otherwise an hour ago before thinking this trough.
It just really doesn't make sense right now. The only thing I dislike about BKE's claim is that he claims BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC because I consider BC more likely to be the target, but BM24 being the target isn't out of the ordinary that much.
On top of that with Palmars statement it really could be he's telling the truth and if something like:
Suicide vs BM24
1KP vs BC
1KP vs other vet (myself, maybe Foru or whoever else) or someone being really active (not going to call names here for obvious reasons) who got protected isn't that unlikely at all.
The thing about late switches is they almost always turn out bad because they're not thought through and mafia has an easy time to manipulate. I'm pretty sure that either Shady or Grush is mafia right now and I could see both flipping red (though not both), so we could go for either of those two but as mentioned, those things really go wrong all the time... It Is also bad to potentially mislynch a watcher. I would rather mislynch a VT then a Watcher. If that is the worst consequence from mafia manipulation. So be it. Of course it's bad to lynch a watcher but we can't consider that a reason to not lynch him and have to take both lynching a VT and a Watcher as equally bad. If we don't we're giving mafia the easiest time ever to just get in here "LOL I'm a mad hatter" and everyone insta unvotes because of something that can't be proven at all. That being said I still dislike the BKE lynch right now and would prefere a grush lynch. Hmm I hadn't thought of that. In my last game The scummiest player claimed vig after a vig shot. He was so scummy no one believed him and he was lynched, In the obs QT Marv said that lynching blue claims was something newbies loved to do. I understand your point about all scum making easy claims. But this wagon smells. Grush smells. I skimmed through the thread and alarm bells started blaring in my head. well yeah I agree. I really don't like the situation we're in right now. Lynching BKE sounds really stupid right now and I don't like Grush's attitude at all. I'm going to vote for Grush. I've still got about an hour left before I have to go so let's see what we can do and whether or not it's possible. ##vote Grush
Alright, let's get this wagon going.
##Vote Grush
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On September 09 2012 01:36 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:35 Toadesstern wrote:On September 09 2012 01:32 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:On September 09 2012 01:21 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:15 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm thinking about this claim and I've got to say I don't like lynching BKE right now although I said otherwise an hour ago before thinking this trough.
It just really doesn't make sense right now. The only thing I dislike about BKE's claim is that he claims BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC because I consider BC more likely to be the target, but BM24 being the target isn't out of the ordinary that much.
On top of that with Palmars statement it really could be he's telling the truth and if something like:
Suicide vs BM24
1KP vs BC
1KP vs other vet (myself, maybe Foru or whoever else) or someone being really active (not going to call names here for obvious reasons) who got protected isn't that unlikely at all.
The thing about late switches is they almost always turn out bad because they're not thought through and mafia has an easy time to manipulate. I'm pretty sure that either Shady or Grush is mafia right now and I could see both flipping red (though not both), so we could go for either of those two but as mentioned, those things really go wrong all the time... It Is also bad to potentially mislynch a watcher. I would rather mislynch a VT then a Watcher. If that is the worst consequence from mafia manipulation. So be it. Of course it's bad to lynch a watcher but we can't consider that a reason to not lynch him and have to take both lynching a VT and a Watcher as equally bad. If we don't we're giving mafia the easiest time ever to just get in here "LOL I'm a mad hatter" and everyone insta unvotes because of something that can't be proven at all. That being said I still dislike the BKE lynch right now and would prefere a grush lynch. Hmm I hadn't thought of that. In my last game The scummiest player claimed vig after a vig shot. He was so scummy no one believed him and he was lynched, In the obs QT Marv said that lynching blue claims was something newbies loved to do. I understand your point about all scum making easy claims. But this wagon smells. Grush smells. I skimmed through the thread and alarm bells started blaring in my head. well yeah I agree. I really don't like the situation we're in right now. Lynching BKE sounds really stupid right now and I don't like Grush's attitude at all. I'm going to vote for Grush. I've still got about an hour left before I have to go so let's see what we can do and whether or not it's possible. ##vote Grush Alright, let's get this wagon going. ##Vote Grush
god why are you calling it a wagon. You're giving me the worst paranoia ever right now
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Scratch that. Lynching Toad would require way more work and way more discussion than I think we're going to get at this point in time. I will put together some stuff, post it this night. I don't think we've got enough time left this day to push a difficult lynch, so we need to look at ... easier options? ... that sounds kind of bad, but hopefully people can understand what I mean. We have limited time to get new candidates and discuss them, and trying to get a lynch on certain targets will be much more difficult than getting a lynch on targets like Grush. Who's seriously not mafia.
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On September 09 2012 01:33 austinmcc wrote:
I'm believing BKE's claim right now. Toad, I see you've changed your tune, but I don't see why you'd claim watcher instead of vig or hatter, doctor, anything that couldn't really be disproven. Everyone IMMEDIATELY jumped on the watcher claim because it was so demonstrably odd based on flips. That's not the right fakeclaim to throw out as mafia. Could be the perfect fakeclaim given that it's so unlikely to be from mafia, but I'm still buying it.
I do not want to lynch Grush. Grush is an EASY MISLYNCH EVERY DANG GAME. Moreover, Grush was already slightly pushed earlier. Scum realizes the BKE mislynch may be falling away, just hopping over to a new candidate. Grush is a bad lynch right now, and mafia is using him to get a mislynch even after the BKE wagon fell apart.
I would like some serious discussion about Toad as an outside lynch candidate. Will put together some reasoning and posts and get them in here, but I think we should discuss him. Mav deserves a look as an option, he's been popping up as scummy to a lot of people, yet the lynch just laserbeams right onto Grush after BKE, with no discussion of other options. We've got so many people not weighing in here, that just voted BKE yesterday and then haven't been around. Any of those people here? Any thoughts?
I am fine with another candidate. I still think grush is scummy. But at this point if we can agree that a BKE lynch is bad, then we should find a suitable candidate and consolidate ASAP.
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On September 09 2012 01:38 austinmcc wrote:
Scratch that. Lynching Toad would require way more work and way more discussion than I think we're going to get at this point in time. I will put together some stuff, post it this night. I don't think we've got enough time left this day to push a difficult lynch, so we need to look at ... easier options? ... that sounds kind of bad, but hopefully people can understand what I mean. We have limited time to get new candidates and discuss them, and trying to get a lynch on certain targets will be much more difficult than getting a lynch on targets like Grush. Who's seriously not mafia.
Why do you think grush is not mafia?
brb going to mickey d's, haven't smoked in such a long time, getting serious munchies
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On September 09 2012 01:38 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 01:35 Toadesstern wrote:On September 09 2012 01:32 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:On September 09 2012 01:21 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:15 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm thinking about this claim and I've got to say I don't like lynching BKE right now although I said otherwise an hour ago before thinking this trough.
It just really doesn't make sense right now. The only thing I dislike about BKE's claim is that he claims BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC because I consider BC more likely to be the target, but BM24 being the target isn't out of the ordinary that much.
On top of that with Palmars statement it really could be he's telling the truth and if something like:
Suicide vs BM24
1KP vs BC
1KP vs other vet (myself, maybe Foru or whoever else) or someone being really active (not going to call names here for obvious reasons) who got protected isn't that unlikely at all.
The thing about late switches is they almost always turn out bad because they're not thought through and mafia has an easy time to manipulate. I'm pretty sure that either Shady or Grush is mafia right now and I could see both flipping red (though not both), so we could go for either of those two but as mentioned, those things really go wrong all the time... It Is also bad to potentially mislynch a watcher. I would rather mislynch a VT then a Watcher. If that is the worst consequence from mafia manipulation. So be it. Of course it's bad to lynch a watcher but we can't consider that a reason to not lynch him and have to take both lynching a VT and a Watcher as equally bad. If we don't we're giving mafia the easiest time ever to just get in here "LOL I'm a mad hatter" and everyone insta unvotes because of something that can't be proven at all. That being said I still dislike the BKE lynch right now and would prefere a grush lynch. Hmm I hadn't thought of that. In my last game The scummiest player claimed vig after a vig shot. He was so scummy no one believed him and he was lynched, In the obs QT Marv said that lynching blue claims was something newbies loved to do. I understand your point about all scum making easy claims. But this wagon smells. Grush smells. I skimmed through the thread and alarm bells started blaring in my head. well yeah I agree. I really don't like the situation we're in right now. Lynching BKE sounds really stupid right now and I don't like Grush's attitude at all. I'm going to vote for Grush. I've still got about an hour left before I have to go so let's see what we can do and whether or not it's possible. ##vote Grush Alright, let's get this wagon going. ##Vote Grush god why are you calling it a wagon. You're giving me the worst paranoia ever right now
I know right 0_o
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On September 09 2012 01:38 austinmcc wrote:
Scratch that. Lynching Toad would require way more work and way more discussion than I think we're going to get at this point in time. I will put together some stuff, post it this night. I don't think we've got enough time left this day to push a difficult lynch, so we need to look at ... easier options? ... that sounds kind of bad, but hopefully people can understand what I mean. We have limited time to get new candidates and discuss them, and trying to get a lynch on certain targets will be much more difficult than getting a lynch on targets like Grush. Who's seriously not mafia.
Why is Grush not scummy? Do you have another alternative? I would love to hear it, bearing in mind it is almost 3 am and sleep is good.
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On September 09 2012 01:39 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:38 austinmcc wrote:
Scratch that. Lynching Toad would require way more work and way more discussion than I think we're going to get at this point in time. I will put together some stuff, post it this night. I don't think we've got enough time left this day to push a difficult lynch, so we need to look at ... easier options? ... that sounds kind of bad, but hopefully people can understand what I mean. We have limited time to get new candidates and discuss them, and trying to get a lynch on certain targets will be much more difficult than getting a lynch on targets like Grush. Who's seriously not mafia. Why do you think grush is not mafia? brb going to mickey d's, haven't smoked in such a long time, getting serious munchies Grush started off early game chatting with Toad about sloosh. He actually participated there, actually participates at a couple other points - + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 05:16 grush57 wrote:
And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town. Active participation On September 06 2012 07:51 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:47 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.
Mafia will want to hit that. Why on earth do you think mafia would want to hit you? Towny vets. Answering questions not directed at him, reading thread + participating where it wasn't necessary and not in trolly ways http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=1034&topic_id=361826 Thinking about the NKs. Note, thinking about the NKs BEFORE THE BKE CLAIM. So he wasn't just hopping into that discussion. This isn't super towny, because mafia would have known medic save was the other option if they didn't double stack. On September 07 2012 07:40 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:39 Forumite wrote:
If Ottox would have been alive right now then I expect he´d allready have a few votes. Him dying saved us a day of discussion. That too. Probably would of wasted a cycle. again, little bitty participation one-liners when he doesn't need to. On September 07 2012 08:44 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 06 2012 22:07 austinmcc wrote:
Grush, if everyone in this game were a toaster, who would be the most energy-efficient? The quickest to make toast? The most likely to burn down a house? If you're still around Hmm, another fancy question. I'm assuming the first question is who provides the most information and least fluff. Second question fastest at making cases/scumhunting. Third the most chaotic/scummy. HMM On September 07 2012 08:48 grush57 wrote:
I would of put Ottox at third question and BC at second question. On September 07 2012 08:48 grush57 wrote:
This is hard Town is REALLY active and good this game. His answers to my questions don't make me lean super town right now, but it shows that, again, he's participating. I ask him a particular question, not anybody else. He has to come up with his own stuff, not parrot someone else's case or just yell in caps. He gives two answers, after thinking about what criteria quickest and likely to burn down the house are. He doesn't answer the first. He COULD have just thrown out three names. COULD have said I'm not answering your dumb weird questions. But instead he answered, though not completely. He chose that route rather than the easier routes of answering all three or answering none.
I've played a couple games with Grush now. A lot of why I don't want to lynch him or don't think he's scummy is just...he's such an easy mislynch target. There's ALWAYS suspicion on him. Therefore, when plans go awry, he's an easy redirection for mafia. If you want to target lurkers, there are lurkier players. If you want to target people who defended BKE, there are other players who kind of limped into the Mattchew lynch, and Mattchew is confirmed now. To me, there's no single criteria where Grush is scummier than anyone else in the thread. But he doesn't exude towniness, so people are willing to lynch him because it's easy and you don't have to find another target yourself and maybe he flips scum.
That's...sort of my answer? I know it's not the strongest.
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I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question.
Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides.
Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim?
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Bah just woke up. Still catching up in the thread, but I'm surprised to see a couple of people actually thinking BKE is telling the truth after seeing this:
On September 08 2012 15:58 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Guys this lynch is not happening. Its like 12:00 PST I'll make a good case in the morning, but Im forced to say Im Watcher. Night One I visited BC and got back GK -_-.
This is impossible no? If GK indeed suicide bombed as many of us are assuming, isn't this a pretty obvious lie?
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I still want to hear BKE's best guess at what happened on N1, regardless any suspicion against him.
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On September 09 2012 01:54 Gravan wrote:
I still want to hear BKE's best guess at what happened on N1, regardless any suspicion against him.
Could I hold up on that? Im asking Palmar a question about N1.
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Damnit, BKE is scum, fucking supporting me after I called out Sandy. Now there is 0% chance he is town.
##Unvote
##Vote: BroodKingExe
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Some WIFOM here, why the hell would I as scum defend BKE knowing the position i was win?
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I am not suspicious of grush because he acts like an idiot or because his posting is bad. I am suspicious because he defends BKE and then backs away from it. Sheeps his case whilst hinting that he will flip green. When BKE claims he is suddenly certain when the natural inclination would be to further doubt the case against BKE. He then trashes his vote onto shady for no reason whatsoever. Despite calling BKE the best case right now.
-Motive:
Gain town cred by questioning what he knows will be a mislynch.
When he claims blue push the lynch to avoid medic saves and a NK
I have no fucking clue why he voted for shady so I will leave it at that.
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Though good play by BKE if that works.
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On September 09 2012 01:54 Hapahauli wrote:Bah just woke up. Still catching up in the thread, but I'm surprised to see a couple of people actually thinking BKE is telling the truth after seeing this: Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 15:58 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Guys this lynch is not happening. Its like 12:00 PST I'll make a good case in the morning, but Im forced to say Im Watcher. Night One I visited BC and got back GK -_-. This is impossible no? If GK indeed suicide bombed as many of us are assuming, isn't this a pretty obvious lie?
No.
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On September 09 2012 01:59 DarthPunk wrote:
I am not suspicious of grush because he acts like an idiot or because his posting is bad. I am suspicious because he defends BKE and then backs away from it. Sheeps his case whilst hinting that he will flip green. When BKE claims he is suddenly certain when the natural inclination would be to further doubt the case against BKE. He then trashes his vote onto shady for no reason whatsoever. Despite calling BKE the best case right now.
-Motive:
Gain town cred by questioning what he knows will be a mislynch.
When he claims blue push the lynch to avoid medic saves and a NK
I have no fucking clue why he voted for shady so I will leave it at that.
Because my post that explains it.................................................................................................................................
His posts are asking other players to do things, SOMETHING SCUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote:
I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question.
Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides.
Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim?
Yea but I always survive till end game usually :D
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Anyways, I know who I'll be moving my BOMB on tonight if I survive
Love and Kisses
<3
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EPT
