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On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about?
You look horrible for your defense of matt, however you keep saying near universally the same crap over and over. You have been responded to multiple times and now just look even worse. The only reason I think you could possibly be town is I think if you were red your team would have told you to quit it by now.
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Hey, BC, you knew from the beginning that because you were the only one with that information that I was really just an incredulous town right?
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On September 05 2012 10:03 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Hey, BC, you knew from the beginning that because you were the only one with that information that I was really just an incredulous town right?
Yep. I would have reacted near identically to you if roles were reversed.
I knew damn well what I was doing and how it looked by seriously I could not let that shit fly. I know damn well if our roles were reversed you would out him just as I did to avoid a potential clusterfuck of a game later / letting mafia slip by with an easy fakeclaim.
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I see. I want you to know that if shit hits the fan and mattchew is blue/black, that i have you completely figured out.
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@Hap - I voted for him ten pages ago. No change in heart.
@BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha.
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On September 05 2012 10:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I see. I want you to know that if shit hits the fan and mattchew is blue/black, that i have you completely figured out.
Eh? If he flips blue I am going to rip him a new one after game. If he flips black I will be surprised as hell but could understand taking that risk. However his reaction since being proven a liar suggests red. I cannot believe a townie or third party would just give up at this point.
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Oh shit Rewok, I completely had you confused with Gravan - my apologies!
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On September 05 2012 10:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? You look horrible for your defense of matt, however you keep saying near universally the same crap over and over. You have been responded to multiple times and now just look even worse. The only reason I think you could possibly be town is I think if you were red your team would have told you to quit it by now.
Yet you are not answering my response about why would a scum claim And I have to repeat the same crap over and over again because no one is answering. Everyone is on Matt. No one can say why is it more likely that hes scum than blue or assa, no one voted on him with some case explaining it. Scum planted it in the thread that it is so and new players doesnt want to discuss it fearing a lynch? I have no idea.
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On September 05 2012 10:07 Rewok wrote:
@BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha.
0_o
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Just stop posting summaries. If you have questions about how to play, play more newbie games. I suggest you go read Ver's TL Mafia XXX analysis. Don't come back until you do. Everyone needs to read that. The TL meta is so bad right now that I think everyone should go back and read it (reread it if youv'e read it before) and stop posting in this thread until you've absorbed every word and point in that game.
The setup in that game is also very similar so there you go. Rewok, seriously, I do believe you to just be new town but your summaries and reads are doing nothing to help.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475
On September 05 2012 10:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I see. I want you to know that if shit hits the fan and mattchew is blue/black, that i have you completely figured out. Eh? If he flips blue I am going to rip him a new one after game. If he flips black I will be surprised as hell but could understand taking that risk. However his reaction since being proven a liar suggests red. I cannot believe a townie or third party would just give up at this point.
We'll see what happens.
On September 05 2012 10:09 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? You look horrible for your defense of matt, however you keep saying near universally the same crap over and over. You have been responded to multiple times and now just look even worse. The only reason I think you could possibly be town is I think if you were red your team would have told you to quit it by now. Yet you are not answering my response about why would a scum claim And I have to repeat the same crap over and over again because no one is answering. Everyone is on Matt. No one can say why is it more likely that hes scum than blue or assa, no one voted on him with some case explaining it. Scum planted it in the thread that it is so and new players doesnt want to discuss it fearing a lynch? I have no idea.
People have actually answered your question multiple times. You just refuse to believe that a scum would make such a bad play, a block that will prevent you from catching many scum in the future.
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On September 05 2012 10:07 Rewok wrote:
@Hap - I voted for him ten pages ago. No change in heart.
@BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha.
No posting is always better. If you don't post you just come off as a lurker skirting a modkill for inactivity and that behaviour does not benefit town at all. Townies have no reason to fear posting as even if they make "mistakes", mafia tend to take the opportunity to take an easy lynch and roll with it, etc... and out themselves. Townies need to post to help catch scum and force them to play at our pace not us play at theirs.
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Z-BoSoN hasn't posted since heaping suspicion on BC and from what I recall of at least the Death Note Obs QT he is quite attentive and active on TL, reading and updating himself a lot.
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On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about?
Okay I'll try it a last time. Starting with stuff that is fast to explain and not with stuff that came first in your question:
He wanted other people to claim:
That's a null. That either means he's a townie and thinks claiming is the right thing to do for a NN, or he tried to lay a trap because he thinks it's the right thing to do for a NN, or he is mafia and thinks it's the right thing to do for a townie-NN.
The important thing is that in ALL scenarios he thinks it's the right thing to do. All you get out of that is that Matt honestly thought it's a good move. Which isn't suprising considering that he claimed to begin with.
Why not a dumb blue move:
What you are suggesting is that he's a blue who is deliberately causing chaos, trying to get himself lynched and to go out with a bang with someone else, possibly a couple of cycles (at least one though) later wastomg at least 2 full cycles or if things go wrong wasting even more time while causing chaos WITHOUT actually lynching a mafia after a couple of cycles while still having ruined the discussion of multiple cycles because clearly everyone would be talking about his move only.
Yeah I don't really see that happening, as already mentioned.
Could he be an Assa
Sure, could be, however it's pretty obvious he's EITHER Assa or mafia and never ever a townie. Lynching into "either assa or mafia" seems like a good deal to me.
It gave scum an easy d1
So because he gave scum an incredible easy d1 you consider him more likely to be town? I don't see how that logic is working.
Furthermore I don't think had an easy d1 no matter what Matt flips. We had an incredible good first half of d1. I've never seen a game start this quickly.
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On September 05 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? Okay I'll try it a last time. Starting with stuff that is fast to explain and not with stuff that came first in your question: He wanted other people to claim:That's a null. That either means he's a townie and thinks claiming is the right thing to do for a NN, or he tried to lay a trap because he thinks it's the right thing to do for a NN, or he is mafia and thinks it's the right thing to do for a townie-NN. The important thing is that in ALL scenarios he thinks it's the right thing to do. All you get out of that is that Matt honestly thought it's a good move. Which isn't suprising considering that he claimed to begin with. Why not a dumb blue move:What you are suggesting is that he's a blue who is deliberately causing chaos, trying to get himself lynched and to go out with a bang with someone else, possibly a couple of cycles (at least one though) later wastomg at least 2 full cycles or if things go wrong wasting even more time while causing chaos WITHOUT actually lynching a mafia after a couple of cycles while still having ruined the discussion of multiple cycles because clearly everyone would be talking about his move only. Yeah I don't really see that happening, as already mentioned. Could he be an AssaSure, could be, however it's pretty obvious he's EITHER Assa or mafia and never ever a townie. Lynching into "either assa or mafia" seems like a good deal to me. It gave scum an easy d1So because he gave scum an incredible easy d1 you consider him more likely to be town? I don't see how that logic is working. Furthermore I don't think had an easy d1 no matter what Matt flips. We had an incredible good first half of d1. I've never seen a game start this quickly.
You are so funny. It is bad for scum, it is bad for assa, it is bad for blue. It is bad. I did not asked that. I know it. You failed to answer my question (why is it more probable to do this as scum? it is bad for scum too.) for the xth time, I guess its better if you ignore me from now on, we clearly don't speak the same language.
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On September 05 2012 10:26 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? Okay I'll try it a last time. Starting with stuff that is fast to explain and not with stuff that came first in your question: He wanted other people to claim:That's a null. That either means he's a townie and thinks claiming is the right thing to do for a NN, or he tried to lay a trap because he thinks it's the right thing to do for a NN, or he is mafia and thinks it's the right thing to do for a townie-NN. The important thing is that in ALL scenarios he thinks it's the right thing to do. All you get out of that is that Matt honestly thought it's a good move. Which isn't suprising considering that he claimed to begin with. Why not a dumb blue move:What you are suggesting is that he's a blue who is deliberately causing chaos, trying to get himself lynched and to go out with a bang with someone else, possibly a couple of cycles (at least one though) later wastomg at least 2 full cycles or if things go wrong wasting even more time while causing chaos WITHOUT actually lynching a mafia after a couple of cycles while still having ruined the discussion of multiple cycles because clearly everyone would be talking about his move only. Yeah I don't really see that happening, as already mentioned. Could he be an AssaSure, could be, however it's pretty obvious he's EITHER Assa or mafia and never ever a townie. Lynching into "either assa or mafia" seems like a good deal to me. It gave scum an easy d1So because he gave scum an incredible easy d1 you consider him more likely to be town? I don't see how that logic is working. Furthermore I don't think had an easy d1 no matter what Matt flips. We had an incredible good first half of d1. I've never seen a game start this quickly. You are so funny. It is bad for scum, it is bad for assa, it is bad for blue. It is bad. I did not asked that. I know it. You failed to answer my question (why is it more probable to do this as scum? it is bad for scum too.) for the xth time, I guess its better if you ignore me from now on, we clearly don't speak the same language.
because it is bad for town in 100% of the cases. It never ends up being good.
It can work for mafia and end up good or be bad.
The question isn't wether or not it was good. The question is why he wanted to claim. He wanted to claim because he thought it's a good idea. That's the whole point you're ignoring.
You keep on telling people "well herpa derpa but you see how horrible it went".
Noone cares about it because that has nothing to do with the situation.
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@Ottoxlol
Firstly, it's a bad idea for any playertype. Now we need to figure out among which category is most likely:
Town
Most unlikely. Townies have no incentive to fake-claim a miller role. In addition, Mattchew's complete silence after his like being confirmed makes it even less likely he's town. Townies would be dumping reads and desperately trying to scumhunt.
Blue
Also unlikely. Blues want to claim vanilla townie, not another role. There is no incentive to lie to town as a blue. Similar to the VT reasoning, Mattchew's silence is very telling of a non-town alligned role.
Assassin
Possible, but unlikely, considering that Assassins can survive NK's (but not lynches), and thus have no real reason to clam.
Mafia
Most likely. While it's undeniably stupid to fake-claim as mafia, there is mafia mentality behind the move. Mafia wants to establish themselves as townie early in the game, and it's pretty clear that Mattchew thought the "Nosy Neighbor" was a self-aware miller. Given that it makes sense for self-aware millers to instantly claim, Mattchew fake-claimed to get an alibi and look townie (and excuse his scummy night actions). It also makes sense for mafia to lie to the town.
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On September 05 2012 10:30 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:26 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? Okay I'll try it a last time. Starting with stuff that is fast to explain and not with stuff that came first in your question: He wanted other people to claim:That's a null. That either means he's a townie and thinks claiming is the right thing to do for a NN, or he tried to lay a trap because he thinks it's the right thing to do for a NN, or he is mafia and thinks it's the right thing to do for a townie-NN. The important thing is that in ALL scenarios he thinks it's the right thing to do. All you get out of that is that Matt honestly thought it's a good move. Which isn't suprising considering that he claimed to begin with. Why not a dumb blue move:What you are suggesting is that he's a blue who is deliberately causing chaos, trying to get himself lynched and to go out with a bang with someone else, possibly a couple of cycles (at least one though) later wastomg at least 2 full cycles or if things go wrong wasting even more time while causing chaos WITHOUT actually lynching a mafia after a couple of cycles while still having ruined the discussion of multiple cycles because clearly everyone would be talking about his move only. Yeah I don't really see that happening, as already mentioned. Could he be an AssaSure, could be, however it's pretty obvious he's EITHER Assa or mafia and never ever a townie. Lynching into "either assa or mafia" seems like a good deal to me. It gave scum an easy d1So because he gave scum an incredible easy d1 you consider him more likely to be town? I don't see how that logic is working. Furthermore I don't think had an easy d1 no matter what Matt flips. We had an incredible good first half of d1. I've never seen a game start this quickly. You are so funny. It is bad for scum, it is bad for assa, it is bad for blue. It is bad. I did not asked that. I know it. You failed to answer my question (why is it more probable to do this as scum? it is bad for scum too.) for the xth time, I guess its better if you ignore me from now on, we clearly don't speak the same language. because it is bad for town in 100% of the cases. It never ends up being good. It can work for mafia and end up good or be bad. The question isn't wether or not it was good. The question is why he wanted to claim. He wanted to claim because he thought it's a good idea. That's the whole point you're ignoring. You keep on telling people "well herpa derpa but you see how horrible it went". Noone cares about it because that has nothing to do with the situation.
On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
Nice slip there scum.
Assa could have a plan to get the other assa to claim also so he checks the claims.
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On September 05 2012 10:36 Hapahauli wrote:
@Ottoxlol
Firstly, it's a bad idea for any playertype. Now we need to figure out among which category is most likely:
Town
Most unlikely. Townies have no incentive to fake-claim a miller role. In addition, Mattchew's complete silence after his like being confirmed makes it even less likely he's town. Townies would be dumping reads and desperately trying to scumhunt.
Blue
Also unlikely. Blues want to claim vanilla townie, not another role. There is no incentive to lie to town as a blue. Similar to the VT reasoning, Mattchew's silence is very telling of a non-town alligned role.
Assassin
Possible, but unlikely, considering that Assassins can survive NK's (but not lynches), and thus have no real reason to clam.
Mafia
Most likely. While it's undeniably stupid to fake-claim as mafia, there is mafia mentality behind the move. Mafia wants to establish themselves as townie early in the game, and it's pretty clear that Mattchew thought the "Nosy Neighbor" was a self-aware miller. Given that it makes sense for self-aware millers to instantly claim, Mattchew fake-claimed to get an alibi and look townie (and excuse his scummy night actions). It also makes sense for mafia to lie to the town.
He not just claimed he also asked the other millers to come out and claim. He could have tried to bait scum/the other assa.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long....
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If he tried to "bait scum" and "scumhunt" - why is he not scumhunting now? Why is he not defending himself and trying to dump reads in the thread? The answer is that he's not town-alligned! It makes no sense for him to be this silent otherwise.
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EPT
