EPTDwarf Fortress Mini Mafia - Page 26
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Custos Luna
United States96 Posts
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
![[image loading]](http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/49/78/80067849/photos/weapons/dagger.jpg) Truly! this has been fun! a goblin has been killed! huzzzah I say huzzah! Unfortunately sciberbia got too drunk at the party and was stabbed at the dagger a inch before entering the most secure room in the fort! It's now Day 3, vote before the deadline, if no replacements make themselves available HiroPro will have to be modkilled  | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
Analysis of the day 1 lynch & the voteswitch So this is basicly two different stories but I'd like to start with the voteswitch because that's what I said I would do and because that's what I feel like doing. I'd like to direct everyone here clicky We're about to lynch a scum, but what happens? These are some of my points of interests. sciberia reinfoces his case on Forumite Mordanis throws down a very bad case on a new candidate. HiroPro voteswitches prplhz shows up to defend himself Shiaopi voteswitches prplhz attacks Forumite *Custos Lunas morning evalutation Votecount 5-5, 1-1 (back to this later) And well just read everything after this because it would be easier to say which posts between this and the flip not to bother reading. I'm going to talk about Custos Luna and his actions during the voteswitch now. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 22:10 Custos Luna wrote: Ok, my morning evaluation: prplhz: I do not feel that the prplhz wagon has that much merit. He had a few poor posts early, but in the whole, he has responded fairly well to the case against him. He has defended himself logically and presented a counter argument against Forumite. In my experience, the D1 lurker lynch is almost always inaccurate. The prplhz wagon started because it was easy. The easy way isn't always the right way. I'm glad people are starting to reconsider the vote on prpl for this reason. That's not to say I think he's town, I just think he is less likely to be scum than others at this point. Forumite: I can see a scenario with Forumite flipping scum. He has been flip floppy all game, and people have pointed out his contradictions. However, he's still not the scummiest in my eyes. Mordanis: Am I really the only one who sees the COMPLETELY blatant lack of commitment from Mord all game? -First Half D1: Very fluffy posts with the promise to start scumhunting. -Second Half D1: Still more fluff. Makes a long post and FoSs shipoopi (still no commitment). He does not cast a vote until very late D1 (sleepy time in my time zone). His vote is on marvel. I would normally have no issue with this if it were at a reasonable time. However, this is crunch time. A lynch on marvel isn't on the table at this point. He makes a case and commitment on something that more than likely will not happen. Mord's posts are long and filled with nothing. He talks a lot but doesn't say anything. His posts are difficult to follow, and a lack of transparency hurts town. He avoids commitment to a case as much as he can. I'm sticking with my gut on this one. Mordanis is scum First he tries to defend prplhz using logical reasoning. That prplhz has defended himself logicly and that he have presented a counterargument against forumite. The first one of these two are false. prplhz did not defend himself logicly. You can find the post above. Prplhz [b]questions our votes. He does not defend himself and yes there is a difference. Defending yourself is when you argument against your opponants reasoning. Example: Saying -I'm not scum because of reason X or -You are misunderstanding me, what I really ment is sentence Y prplhz goes through a quick [quote]&[comment] spree where he questions our votes but still manages to miss the point entirely on as good as all of them. We're accusing him for beeing scum because of his scum meta and he is trying to twist the light into us accusing him for beeing lurky and trying to play the vicitim of a bandwagon. These [quote]&[comment] roundups are very easy to make, look very good. But it's not actually defense if you twist the voters reasoning and don't argue against it. I feel Custos Luna beeing a claimed Vet should have seen this. Instead CL makes it sound as prplhz actually have defended himself and since he have defended himself logically he gets some townpoints. All a fake mask hidden beneth well chosen typing. ((I have some issues with the coding not getting it work properly, bare with it.)) As for the counterargument. I suggest you look through prplhz filter yourselves. This is what I think it looks like. Cheap shots. Once more it's just some nice words covering up the truth. Custos Luna is trying to persuade people to get off prplhz and he is using a decitfull way to do it because typing Prplhz counterargumented and defended himself sounds better then Prplzh twisted the light of his accusers accusations and took some cheap shots at the only other person that might get lynched instead of him in a chance to make himself look better by pushing someone else down. It makes all the difference when someone says He did this when he actually did something else even if they look simmilar on a quick look because it twists an event and changes the situation. It's very scummy behavior. I'll continue here because I don't like to make to long spoilers and to make sure you read everything. Mordanis: Why does he bring up Mordanis. What Custos Luna says about Mordanis is true. But why does he bring it up now? I can't see a town-agenda in bringing up another suspect just before the lynch. Especially when he's been treading so carefully and beeing OH SO CAREFULL and explained to us how doubtfull he feels about the lynch candidates. So now he brings up a new candidate who'll have absolutely zero chance of beeing lynched. (And if he actually was lynched it would had been even worse because voteswitches to new targets are almost always a bad idea for town) Custos Luna knows this. However from a scum perspective it makes perfect sense because in a sitaution where Mord is town and Luna scum bringing Mord up both distracts the thread and begins to shift attention to Mord where he begins to get set up for a mislynch because scum doesn't care when they bring up their mis-lynch candidates. They just want to put them under the floodlight and hide in the shadows themselves. because of coding issues, where I have absolutely no idea where the fault is I'll end this post soon since I can't use any spoilers/quotes/bold/underlined without fucking shit up. But I need to say atleast one more thing about Luna first. The most significant part which is easiest revieved yourselves. Go to Custos Lunas filter or just read the posts in pages during the voteswitch. Look how CAREFULL Custos Luna is. He is so afraid of putting down an opinion and constantly reminding us how insecure he feels and how he doubts this-and-that and is worried this-is-so. He is so defensive for himself and already before Forumite has been lynched he sets up his defense for the mislynch (which he continues to play out in his post after the flip) Custos Luna is playing with a scum agenda. We need to kill him. Sorry that the last part is unorganised. Bloody coding. DoYouHas and Keirathi are very likely town. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
gg and good luck town obs QT please | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Still with the possibility of a modkill on him, we should probably look for scum member 3 now. I got 2 candidates right now: risk.nuke His general level of activity has been pretty low. I have been farily unimpressed with his first longer post just above. The case on CL lacks in my opinion. What exonerates him a bit is that he was actually the first to vote prhplz come day2. Could have easily been a bus with the lack of scumhunting in general. @risk: I assume your post is only halfway done. You said you would comment on more than only CL. Also why do you stop after analyzing day1? Mordanis He posts this in Day 2, when the CL train started to stutter and the majority swayed by scib switched over to prhplz. On August 12 2012 15:12 Mordanis wrote: Could someone explain to me why prplhz is so scummy? I've looked through Custodis filter and seen a lot less scumminess than I'd have hoped for. But I don't see to much at all from prplhz. His lurkiness except for when he's fighting for his life doesn't seem all that scummy to me because that was how I played in my last game. D1+D3 I was pretty active, but I spent most of my free time D2 playing DeusEx. The days I was under heavy suspicion: D1+D3. I'm not saying this makes prplhz town, I just think that lynching based on someone's only activity being defensive isn't such a great idea. Also, somehow Shiao has somehow escaped being labeled a lurker despite not having posted at all this cycle. It has been stated again and again that prphlz lurking is not his town meta, so the accusations where lack of content (which was obvious when looking through his filter) and a meta-read. Hardly hidden at all. Coupled with his lacking play in Day 1. I got some serious trouble to see townie Mord in this. Also take a look at what he posts when scib summarized the arguments against prphlz and asked him of his reads: On August 12 2012 16:03 Mordanis wrote: Frankly I don't know. On the one hand you have CL who made a large mistake in sheeping me, but it isn't alignment-indicative. It's pretty shitty play regardless. On the other hand, you have prpl who has been inactive save for defense. Really, at this point they both seem like bad cases. I really need to read through for a while before I can return with my thoughts. I will say however that all things being equal I would favor the lurker-lynch on the grounds that it might light a fire under the remaining lurkers' asses and get them posting. He had been fairly assertive that CL is scum based on DYH's case, for reference I quoted: On August 11 2012 08:09 Mordanis wrote: Actually, in my mind, the scummiest thing in the entire game so far has been your argument to lynch 3 players in a row based on the assumption that one of the players is scum, and then connection-based logic on Hiro. ##Vote Custos Luna Reading both one also has to see that when CL's connection argument was the scummiest thing in the thread why doesn't Mord refer to it again at all, when he was searching for alingment-indicative things on CL? Now look at his switchpost: On August 12 2012 17:15 Mordanis wrote: What it comes down to is whether to lynch CL for his mistakes. IMO "scumslips" are useful tools to enhance your scumhunting, not auto-lynch heuristics. The idea is that scum are more likely than town to "slip", so you look at players who "slip" to confirm their scumminess or store the information away for later. CL has in my mind 2 slips/mistakes. His "IFoundAllTheScumteam" post and his sheeping my vote. While I was at work, during the slower times I was trying to figure out whether CL's play was scummy or rusty. I couldn't decide. After reading through his filter, I have come to believe that he is not scum. -snipped- How can someone whom you accused of doing the scummiest thing of all time be exonerated of it entirely? You do not say that he could still be scum, you do not say that you are keeping some suspicion on him. It is making a 180°turn in your opinion on him. To me it looks like you are just trying to be on the "right" side of the lynch, prphlz was set to be hammered, even if you had not switched owing to the abysmal activity of the daycycle. You had alleviated some suspicions I had on you but I believe you have the highest chance to be gobbo nr.3 ##Vote: Mordanis | ||
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Custos Luna
United States96 Posts
gg scib @risk.nuke: To save myself from the nightmare that I'm sure is the formatting of your post, I will be quoting segments of your post so I can respond to them: First he tries to defend prplhz using logical reasoning. That prplhz has defended himself logicly and that he have presented a counterargument against forumite. The first one of these two are false. prplhz did not defend himself logicly. You can find the post above. Prplhz questions our votes. He does not defend himself and yes there is a difference. Defending yourself is when you argument against your opponants reasoning. Example: Saying -I'm not scum because of reason X or -You are misunderstanding me, what I really ment is sentence Y prplhz goes through a quick |quote|&[comment] spree where he questions our votes but still manages to miss the point entirely on as good as all of them. We're accusing him for beeing scum because of his scum meta and he is trying to twist the light into us accusing him for beeing lurky and trying to play the vicitim of a bandwagon. These |quote|&[comment] roundups are very easy to make, look very good. But it's not actually defense if you twist the voters reasoning and don't argue against it. You are correct. I was wrong on my early prplhz read. When I said he defended himself logically, I should have said he was rational about it. As in, he didn't fly off the handle defending himself. But yes, it wasn't until later that I realized he was only showing up to defend himself. Had I realized it earlier, I may have pushed for the prplhz lynch D1. I feel Custos Luna beeing a claimed Vet should have seen this. Instead CL makes it sound as prplhz actually have defended himself and since he have defended himself logically he gets some townpoints. All a fake mask hidden beneth well chosen typing. I'm going to repeat myself here. It has been over a year since I've last played. Me being a "vet" does not mean that I know everyone's "meta" in depth. It's one thing to read through someone's game, and another thing to have played with them and experienced their actions in a certain role. Mordanis: Why does he bring up Mordanis. What Custos Luna says about Mordanis is true. But why does he bring it up now? I can't see a town-agenda in bringing up another suspect just before the lynch. Especially when he's been treading so carefully and beeing OH SO CAREFULL and explained to us how doubtfull he feels about the lynch candidates. So now he brings up a new candidate who'll have absolutely zero chance of beeing lynched. (And if he actually was lynched it would had been even worse because voteswitches to new targets are almost always a bad idea for town) Custos Luna knows this. However from a scum perspective it makes perfect sense because in a sitaution where Mord is town and Luna scum bringing Mord up both distracts the thread and begins to shift attention to Mord where he begins to get set up for a mislynch because scum doesn't care when they bring up their mis-lynch candidates. They just want to put them under the floodlight and hide in the shadows themselves. I mentioned Mordanis because he was my target from mid D1. I was not faltering on my beliefs that he is scum. When it was clear to me that things needed to happen to decide between Forumite and prplhz, I acted. Perhaps my actions were not completely correct, but what's happened has happened. But I need to say atleast one more thing about Luna first. The most significant part which is easiest revieved yourselves. Go to Custos Lunas filter or just read the posts in pages during the voteswitch. Look how CAREFULL Custos Luna is. He is so afraid of putting down an opinion and constantly reminding us how insecure he feels and how he doubts this-and-that and is worried this-is-so. He is so defensive for himself and already before Forumite has been lynched he sets up his defense for the mislynch (which he continues to play out in his post after the flip) How can you possibly say that I've been posting with any level of care higher than anyone would. There is obvious forethought in my posts, as there is in everyone's posts. End of N1 I targetted the scum team in its entirety and almost died to town because of it. I personally wanted Mord lynched D1, and I was unsure of the two candidates at the time. I wasn't covering my ass in saying that, I was being completely open about my thoughts. @Shippopie: You beat me to the punch there and pretty much said most of what I wanted to. Mordanis changed his stance on me very quickly once Scib defended me and it was pretty clear that my lynch was not going to go through. A complete turn around from his previous opinions on my alignment. Also, since HiroPro is indisposed (and is more than likely a scum member), we know there is only one scum member active. Scib was the first (and really only) person to step up and make a case in my defense. He is now dead because of this. Mord is the only active player left who I have been consistently targeting, calling him out as the remaining scum member. Assuming Hiro (or a replacement) doesn't return before a modkill, I'm comfortable with a Mordanis lynch today. ##vote Mordanis | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On August 11 2012 08:09 Mordanis wrote: Actually, in my mind, the scummiest thing in the entire game so far has been your argument to lynch 3 players in a row based on the assumption that one of the players is scum, and then connection-based logic on Hiro. ##Vote Custos Luna On August 11 2012 11:31 DoYouHas wrote: Thank you thank you thank you Mordanis. Your point about me not including CL was absolutley right, and I was pondering my answer in the shower when I had a bit of a revelation. CL's voteswitch was unique from the others in a very specific way. He let you pick for him Mord. He implies multiple times that voting Forumite is what he wants to do, so why not actually do it? His reason is that he fears that Mord will force the double lynch if he votes first. But is this a rational fear? no. If Mord is town then he would realize that everyone does not want a double lynch day1 and would not cause one. He probably would have sat on marv and been content that CL took the decision out of his hands. If Mord is scum then he would realize that the town is going to lynch him day2 if he forces a last minute double lynch and that a 2 for 1 trade isn't bad for town day1. Neither alignment would have forced that double lynch in Mord's position. So why would CL put Mord (someone he is supposed to believe is scum, drastically increasing the chance of a mislynch) firmly in the driver's seat of yesterday's lynch? I can think of only one answer: CL knew that either choice would end in a townie flip and did not want to be tied to the blame for it. The language he uses leading up to the lynch only strengthens my belief that this is the case. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 23:27 Custos Luna wrote: Firm stance on wanting to switch to Forum, immediately hands reins over to Mord to choose Forum or prplhz.EBWOP: DYH, looking back, that does appear to be fairly accurate. I had thought more people unvoted off prplhz and onto Forumite. If it is necessary, I will switch my vote from Mord to Forumite to avoid the double lynch depending on what is said in the next half hour. However, Mord, you need to decide. Forumite or prplhz. Make your choice. Do so before I am required to or the wrath of the moon will fall upon you. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 23:36 Custos Luna wrote: Begins to distance himself from a Forumite lynch and even entertains double lynching.If one of prpl and Forumite are scum, the double lynch benefits us. However, I'm still not entirely convinced and I'm trying to figure out how to give us the best chance into this lynch. + Show Spoiler [Important One] + On August 09 2012 23:54 Custos Luna wrote: This is a very important post tone-wise. It starts with a mischievous tone with the bantering line of "I would never!". This bantering statement tells me that CL just relaxed a bit, or even is feeling a bit victorious. This is immediately is followed by an even bigger distancing statement, "Still unsure on Forumite. But I'm less sure on prpl". Then his 'moon' closing is even a bit off of the normal. Up until this point the moon comments by CL have been either normal signoffs or threats. This one is different, it reads to me like a self satisfied dig at Mord, which seems out of place until I fit it to my theory.I would never! Still unsure on Forumite. But I'm less sure on prpl, and I want to pad some security against a last minute swap/double lynch. Therefore: ##unvote Mordanis ##vote Forumite The moon is shocked that Mord has actually committed to something. Custos Luna is SCUM ##Vote: Custos Luna It goes further though. He says that there is no reason to be confused about the bandwagon switching to prpl. This is the reason that D2 seemed so weird to me. prpl wasn't a candidate for the lynch so much as the one candidate was sort of exonerated, and he seemed like the backup lynch. Shiao is expecting me to believe someone based purely on their meta-reads. I apologize if I don't have the brain of a sheep. If you ignore prpl's meta, it becomes a lurker lynch. Why everyone was piling on one of the lurkers instead of the several others is confusing. Finally you literally cut the bits of my quote that explain your concerns about my switch. Here is what you snipped: + Show Spoiler + On August 12 2012 17:15 Mordanis wrote: ....... CL is obviously a bit rusty, and so if he were scum I'd expect to be able to find lots of little scum-tells along with the major mistakes. I just didn't find any, and not for lack of effort. In short, it simply doesn't make any sense to me to assume that someone is good enough to have a filter basically free from little scum-tells but bad enough to make massive mistakes unless there isn't anything for that player to hide. It would be completely worthless to switch my vote to anyone other than prpl at this point, but I still feel that I need to comment on him. I feel it is highly likely at least one of the scum are lurking pretty hard, simply because the setup strongly encourages it. 3 mislynches plus 3 night kills yields victory to the scum. While lurkers by their nature don't really contribute, prpl really hasn't done anything at all the entire game. He voted for his counter-wagon, defended himself, and added more to the counterwagon. Take those away and he has zero content. He obviously cares at least a little to save his own ass but doesn't seem to give a shit about finding scum or even contributing to discussion in any way. I do find that scummy. ## Unvote ## Vote prplhz Luna diem integram novumque tibi donaverit. Aut nox donaverit. Teneas gratior et leta gobbae. The moon has given you a new and fresh day. Or she has given you a night.You may choose whichever pleases you more and you must kill scum. Shiao: you better have a really fucking good reason for lying and manipulating what I wrote to make your case against me stronger. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Right one point in your favor is the timestamp, that's one thing I messed up with while rereading, does not take away the main effect, that you were piling onto CL as long as you had DYH applying pressure as well. When it subsided a bit due to scib's defense you turned around. Yes your vote was before the case, does not change the fact that you were on the fence about it only as long as you were not the only one doing pressure. Also regarding prphlz meta, did you check the games that were referenced to? It got pretty obvious that prphlz was different from his town games. I do not believe you to be a mindless sheep, I believe you to check a game in the past to see if the metaargument does any sense. Since you obviously did not check I can only assume two things lazy townie or scum who does not bother to read up on meta, since you know that prphlz is red anyway. Ever assumed that a "good" scum player might still slip one or two times? If you had been so sure on CL being scum, why switch? That's my main concern with you. What I would like you to do is stick with your convictions and your reads or give out valid reasons for switching. What you wrote seems to me like: "Hmmm...looks like CL won't be lynched, better switch to prphlz and add some speculations about the setup, when it is clear that prphlz is hammered. And you even said that it is scummy that he has zero content, why couldn't you see it earlier or why couldn't you remember like pretty much everyone did? Also prphlz was always an alternative to CL in regards of D2 lynch. heck he received a vote first (even if it was risk, with little to no reasoning) | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
@Mord: I do like how you get more assertive when I apply pressure though. Who would you want to lynch today? | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
gg scib. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 14 2012 02:22 Custos Luna wrote: You beat me to the punch there and pretty much said most of what I wanted to. Mordanis changed his stance on me very quickly once Scib defended me and it was pretty clear that my lynch was not going to go through. A complete turn around from his previous opinions on my alignment. Also, since HiroPro is indisposed (and is more than likely a scum member), we know there is only one scum member active. Scib was the first (and really only) person to step up and make a case in my defense. He is now dead because of this. Mord is the only active player left who I have been consistently targeting, calling him out as the remaining scum member. ##vote Mordanis OK this is the 2nd time you have tried to interpret the night kill in a favorable way to yourself. First time with marv was WIFOMish - perhaps an innocent mistake. However in this case, it is clear from sciberbia's filter that he was leaning town on Mordanis as well. With his kill you assert that the NK is scum killing your defender and pushing for your mislynch, when scib could also have defended Mordanis should his lynch appear. Why is this? On August 14 2012 04:43 ShiaoPi wrote: What are you talking about? DYH posted his case after Mordanis' vote, and so how does "piling onto CL" make sense if he did it before? (I doubt you are insinuating DYH is scum as well).@Mord: Right one point in your favor is the timestamp, that's one thing I messed up with while rereading, does not take away the main effect, that you were piling onto CL as long as you had DYH applying pressure as well. When it subsided a bit due to scib's defense you turned around. Yes your vote was before the case, does not change the fact that you were on the fence about it only as long as you were not the only one doing pressure. On August 14 2012 04:43 ShiaoPi wrote: Also regarding prphlz meta, did you check the games that were referenced to? It got pretty obvious that prphlz was different from his town games. I do not believe you to be a mindless sheep, I believe you to check a game in the past to see if the metaargument does any sense. Since you obviously did not check I can only assume two things lazy townie or scum who does not bother to read up on meta, since you know that prphlz is red anyway. On August 09 2012 21:08 ShiaoPi wrote: At the moment I really do not know if it is that good to lynch prphlz...It is a lurker lynch bascially, flipping a coin on the chance that it really is different from his meta because he is scum or that he simply lacked time. On August 09 2012 21:13 ShiaoPi wrote: What the heck is this? I like prhplz response to the votes, adds up onto my thoughts that he is just busy. It's really looking like Mordanis is a suspicious looking towny that's being set-up. Shiaopi is flat out going in with the mentality that Mordanis is scum and nitpicking his filter. ##Vote: Shiaopi | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Okey Dokey, I had some time to think about SP's post. First off, I think it is important to recognize that SP manipulated, bordering on barefaced lying, my posts to make his case seem stronger. There is zero possible explanation for good townies to make that case. + Show Spoiler [Wordy Logic] + If SP had been a DT and found scum last night, making a case like his would make sense. Unfortunately, the setup allows only 1 power role besides medic, so SP cannot be a DT, or either of the other power roles. It is therefore clear that SP made a really bad post. At least as bad as CL's mistakes. The problem is, I can't accept that heuristic (big mistakes without small mistakes = town) for defense anymore. Clever scum who were playing well could make one big mistake to gain a town read as long as their filter was clean of scum-tells. This means that scum would be playing well (instead of really well and simultaneously really bad), so that heuristic can't be used for defense for quite a while. It can however still be used for hunting scum. If there is a mistake worth investigation, and the player in question has a filter full of minor "slips", they've been playing pretty bad scum. Also, I get the feeling from this post that it is a contrivance. The contradictions to his play (which Sloosh pointed out) within the post plus all of the innacuracies make it seem as though he either had some sort of gut read and didn't Another player whom I believe is worthy of more suspicion than he's seen is Risk. Virtually no contribution save one post relatively recently. This is partially in answer to SP's question about whom I'm suspicios of. I'm about to pass out though, so I'll do some more reading in the morning. See you all then. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Analysis of the day 1 lynch & the voteswitch So this is basicly two different stories but I'd like to start with the voteswitch because that's what I said I would do and because that's what I feel like doing. I'd like to direct everyone here [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=15#297]clicky[/url] We're about to lynch a scum, but what happens? These are some of my points of interests. [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=16#304]sciberia reinfoces his case on Forumite[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=16#306]Mordanis throws down a very bad case on a new candidate.[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=16#312]HiroPro voteswitches[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=16#313]prplhz shows up to defend himself[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=16#314]Shiaopi voteswitches[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=16#319]prplhz attacks Forumite[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=17#322]*Custos Lunas morning evalutation[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346¤tpage=17#327]Votecount 5-5, 1-1 (back to this later)[/url] And well just read everything after this because it would be easier to say which posts between this and the flip not to bother reading. I'm going to talk about Custos Luna and his actions during the voteswitch now. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 22:10 Custos Luna wrote: Ok, my morning evaluation: prplhz: I do not feel that the prplhz wagon has that much merit. He had a few poor posts early, but in the whole, he has responded fairly well to the case against him. He has defended himself logically and presented a counter argument against Forumite. In my experience, the D1 lurker lynch is almost always inaccurate. The prplhz wagon started because it was easy. The easy way isn't always the right way. I'm glad people are starting to reconsider the vote on prpl for this reason. That's not to say I think he's town, I just think he is less likely to be scum than others at this point. Forumite: I can see a scenario with Forumite flipping scum. He has been flip floppy all game, and people have pointed out his contradictions. However, he's still not the scummiest in my eyes. Mordanis: Am I really the only one who sees the COMPLETELY blatant lack of commitment from Mord all game? -First Half D1: Very fluffy posts with the promise to start scumhunting. -Second Half D1: Still more fluff. Makes a long post and FoSs shipoopi (still no commitment). He does not cast a vote until very late D1 (sleepy time in my time zone). His vote is on marvel. I would normally have no issue with this if it were at a reasonable time. However, this is crunch time. A lynch on marvel isn't on the table at this point. He makes a case and commitment on something that more than likely will not happen. Mord's posts are long and filled with nothing. He talks a lot but doesn't say anything. His posts are difficult to follow, and a lack of transparency hurts town. He avoids commitment to a case as much as he can. I'm sticking with my gut on this one. Mordanis is scum First he tries to defend prplhz using logical reasoning. That prplhz has defended himself logicly and that he have presented a counterargument against forumite. The first one of these two are false. prplhz did not defend himself logicly. You can find the post above. Prplhz questions our votes. He does not defend himself and yes there is a difference. Defending yourself is when you argument against your opponants reasoning. Example: Saying -I'm not scum because of reason X or -You are misunderstanding me, what I really ment is sentence Y prplhz goes through a quick [quote]&[comment] spree where he questions our votes but still manages to miss the point entirely on as good as all of them. We're accusing him for beeing scum because of his scum meta and he is trying to twist the light into us accusing him for beeing lurky and trying to play the vicitim of a bandwagon. These [quote]&[comment] roundups are very easy to make, look very good. But it's not actually defense if you twist the voters reasoning and don't argue against it. I feel Custos Luna beeing a claimed Vet should have seen this. Instead CL makes it sound as prplhz actually have defended himself and since he have defended himself logically he gets some townpoints. All a fake mask hidden beneth well chosen typing. ((I have some issues with the coding not getting it work properly, bare with it.)) As for the counterargument. I suggest you look through prplhz filter yourselves. This is what I think it looks like. Cheap shots. Once more it's just some nice words covering up the truth. Custos Luna is trying to persuade people to get off prplhz and he is using a decitfull way to do it because typing Prplhz counterargumented and defended himself sounds better then Prplzh twisted the light of his accusers accusations and took some cheap shots at the only other person that might get lynched instead of him in a chance to make himself look better by pushing someone else down. It makes all the difference when someone says He did this when he actually did something else even if they look simmilar on a quick look because it twists an event and changes the situation. It's very scummy behavior. I'll continue here because I don't like to make to long spoilers and to make sure you read everything. Mordanis: Why does he bring up Mordanis. What Custos Luna says about Mordanis is true. But why does he bring it up now? I can't see a town-agenda in bringing up another suspect just before the lynch. Especially when he's been treading so carefully and beeing OH SO CAREFULL and explained to us how doubtfull he feels about the lynch candidates. So now he brings up a new candidate who'll have absolutely zero chance of beeing lynched. (And if he actually was lynched it would had been even worse because voteswitches to new targets are almost always a bad idea for town) Custos Luna knows this. However from a scum perspective it makes perfect sense because in a sitaution where Mord is town and Luna scum bringing Mord up both distracts the thread and begins to shift attention to Mord where he begins to get set up for a mislynch because scum doesn't care when they bring up their mis-lynch candidates. They just want to put them under the floodlight and hide in the shadows themselves. because of coding issues, where I have absolutely no idea where the fault is I'll end this post soon since I can't use any spoilers/quotes/bold/underlined without fucking shit up. But I need to say atleast one more thing about Luna first. The most significant part which is easiest revieved yourselves. Go to Custos Lunas filter or just read the posts in pages during the voteswitch. Look how CAREFULL Custos Luna is. He is so afraid of putting down an opinion and constantly reminding us how insecure he feels and how he doubts this-and-that and is worried this-is-so. He is so defensive for himself and already before Forumite has been lynched he sets up his defense for the mislynch (which he continues to play out in his post after the flip) Custos Luna is playing with a scum agenda. We need to kill him. Sorry that the last part is unorganised. Bloody coding. [b]DoYouHas and Keirathi are very likely town. So I just noticed this. Why didn't you mention sciberbia in your list of "very likely townies" considering it was your end-of-night post? I don't think anyone has had any suspicion of him at all this game, and I know I certainly had a big townie read on him. See, what I think happened is that you already knew sciberbia was going to die, so you didn't need to mention him in your analysis. Maybe thats pretty WIFOM, but on top of the rest of the reasons that I have been suspicious of you (lurking, uninterested, post regarding Forumite flip, etc), you have my vote for today. ##Vote: risk.nuke | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 13 2012 23:56 risk.nuke wrote: Analysis of the day 1 lynch & the voteswitch So this is basicly two different stories but I'd like to start with the voteswitch because that's what I said I would do and because that's what I feel like doing. I'd like to direct everyone here clicky We're about to lynch a scum, but what happens? These are some of my points of interests. sciberia reinfoces his case on Forumite Mordanis throws down a very bad case on a new candidate. HiroPro voteswitches prplhz shows up to defend himself Shiaopi voteswitches prplhz attacks Forumite *Custos Lunas morning evalutation Votecount 5-5, 1-1 (back to this later) And well just read everything after this because it would be easier to say which posts between this and the flip not to bother reading. I'm going to talk about Custos Luna and his actions during the voteswitch now. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 22:10 Custos Luna wrote: Ok, my morning evaluation: prplhz: I do not feel that the prplhz wagon has that much merit. He had a few poor posts early, but in the whole, he has responded fairly well to the case against him. He has defended himself logically and presented a counter argument against Forumite. In my experience, the D1 lurker lynch is almost always inaccurate. The prplhz wagon started because it was easy. The easy way isn't always the right way. I'm glad people are starting to reconsider the vote on prpl for this reason. That's not to say I think he's town, I just think he is less likely to be scum than others at this point. Forumite: I can see a scenario with Forumite flipping scum. He has been flip floppy all game, and people have pointed out his contradictions. However, he's still not the scummiest in my eyes. Mordanis: Am I really the only one who sees the COMPLETELY blatant lack of commitment from Mord all game? -First Half D1: Very fluffy posts with the promise to start scumhunting. -Second Half D1: Still more fluff. Makes a long post and FoSs shipoopi (still no commitment). He does not cast a vote until very late D1 (sleepy time in my time zone). His vote is on marvel. I would normally have no issue with this if it were at a reasonable time. However, this is crunch time. A lynch on marvel isn't on the table at this point. He makes a case and commitment on something that more than likely will not happen. Mord's posts are long and filled with nothing. He talks a lot but doesn't say anything. His posts are difficult to follow, and a lack of transparency hurts town. He avoids commitment to a case as much as he can. I'm sticking with my gut on this one. Mordanis is scum First he tries to defend prplhz using logical reasoning. That prplhz has defended himself logicly and that he have presented a counterargument against forumite. The first one of these two are false. prplhz did not defend himself logicly. You can find the post above. Prplhz questions our votes. He does not defend himself and yes there is a difference. Defending yourself is when you argument against your opponants reasoning. Example: Saying -I'm not scum because of reason X or -You are misunderstanding me, what I really ment is sentence Y prplhz goes through a quick quote&comment spree where he questions our votes but still manages to miss the point entirely on as good as all of them. We're accusing him for beeing scum because of his scum meta and he is trying to twist the light into us accusing him for beeing lurky and trying to play the vicitim of a bandwagon. These quote&comment roundups are very easy to make, look very good. But it's not actually defense if you twist the voters reasoning and don't argue against it. I feel Custos Luna beeing a claimed Vet should have seen this. Instead CL makes it sound as prplhz actually have defended himself and since he have defended himself logically he gets some townpoints. All a fake mask hidden beneth well chosen typing. ((I have some issues with the coding not getting it work properly, bare with it.)) As for the counterargument. I suggest you look through prplhz filter yourselves. This is what I think it looks like. Cheap shots. Once more it's just some nice words covering up the truth. Custos Luna is trying to persuade people to get off prplhz and he is using a decitfull way to do it because typing Prplhz counterargumented and defended himself sounds better then Prplzh twisted the light of his accusers accusations and took some cheap shots at the only other person that might get lynched instead of him in a chance to make himself look better by pushing someone else down. It makes all the difference when someone says He did this when he actually did something else even if they look simmilar on a quick look because it twists an event and changes the situation. It's very scummy behavior. I'll continue here because I don't like to make to long spoilers and to make sure you read everything. Mordanis: Why does he bring up Mordanis. What Custos Luna says about Mordanis is true. But why does he bring it up now? I can't see a town-agenda in bringing up another suspect just before the lynch. Especially when he's been treading so carefully and beeing OH SO CAREFULL and explained to us how doubtfull he feels about the lynch candidates. So now he brings up a new candidate who'll have absolutely zero chance of beeing lynched. (And if he actually was lynched it would had been even worse because voteswitches to new targets are almost always a bad idea for town) Custos Luna knows this. However from a scum perspective it makes perfect sense because in a sitaution where Mord is town and Luna scum bringing Mord up both distracts the thread and begins to shift attention to Mord where he begins to get set up for a mislynch because scum doesn't care when they bring up their mis-lynch candidates. They just want to put them under the floodlight and hide in the shadows themselves. because of coding issues, where I have absolutely no idea where the fault is I'll end this post soon since I can't use any spoilers/quotes/bold/underlined without fucking shit up. But I need to say atleast one more thing about Luna first. The most significant part which is easiest revieved yourselves. Go to Custos Lunas filter or just read the posts in pages during the voteswitch. Look how CAREFULL Custos Luna is. He is so afraid of putting down an opinion and constantly reminding us how insecure he feels and how he doubts this-and-that and is worried this-is-so. He is so defensive for himself and already before Forumite has been lynched he sets up his defense for the mislynch (which he continues to play out in his post after the flip) Custos Luna is playing with a scum agenda. We need to kill him. Sorry that the last part is unorganised. Bloody coding. DoYouHas and Keirathi are very likely town. So I just noticed this. Why didn't you mention sciberbia in your list of "very likely townies" considering it was your end-of-night post? I don't think anyone has had any suspicion of him at all this game, and I know I certainly had a big townie read on him. See, what I think happened is that you already knew sciberbia was going to die, so you didn't need to mention him in your analysis. Maybe thats pretty WIFOM, but on top of the rest of the reasons that I have been suspicious of you (lurking, uninterested, post regarding Forumite flip, etc), you have my vote for today. ##Vote: risk.nuke | ||
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