EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 3
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Just for clarity, is there definitely 3 scum or is the number ambiguous? Same for other roles, i.e. could there be multiple vigis or medics etc.? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On July 31 2012 17:16 DarthPunk wrote: This has been answered previously http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++ we are loosely based on this setup. so multiple blue roles and no confirmed number of reds or blues. C9++ also allows for SK, which is why I wanted to make sure this is indeed the case. How loose is loosely? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On July 27 2012 18:55 Promethelax wrote: I'd like to bring some attention to Zorkmid: He starts with policy talk, as we all did. Follows it up with an immediate about face when he learns about the no-lynch option He leaves hoping for more from others and after that comes back with a question and than dissapears That was over ten hours ago, I don't get it. Where did you go Zork? I don't like his play so far and, thus, a FoS is declared. On July 27 2012 07:18 Promethelax wrote: Okay Ghost, will do. On July 27 2012 07:26 Promethelax wrote: You win for my favourite response ever. If you are ever in my neck of the woods hit me up and I'll buy you a drink just for that. On July 27 2012 07:37 Promethelax wrote: Unrelated to the discussion so far after reading Shady Sands' Op here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355847 I expect awesome posts from him/her. Slim Shady: you've got some awesome to live up to. Since we haven't been productive so far I would like us to turn our attention to pressure: I for one am concerned that MrMedic may not be a medic and is lying about his role in his name. Okay, what I'm actually concerned about is that all he posted is that he is here. I want more. On July 27 2012 07:38 Promethelax wrote: EBWOP: I'm also concerned that his post was edited. Watch yourself my man or Ghost will smite you with his mighty powers. On July 27 2012 08:27 Promethelax wrote: My girlfriend got home so I don't have time to read one last time before going to work. I'll see you in 10-12 hours. Good luck town. On July 27 2012 21:49 Promethelax wrote: Alright, I'll look into their filters and see if anything is popping there. What I found, and still find weird about shady is this: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 08:38 Shady Sands wrote: I'm not sure how Keir telling RB not to use their powers equals Keir roleclaiming as RB. Of course Day 1 roleclaiming is suspicious but this post doesn't fit the bill. But if a clear consensus emerges that he's suspicious, I'd volunteer myself to watch his posting behavior. That said, I do think Day 1 scumhunting could work--but only after everyone (or nearly everyone) has posted. I'm going to go down the list of posters now and do a quick tally. Ange777 - No posts yet Keirathi - Six posts Promethelax - More than 10 posts alan133 - 1 "GLHF" post Mordanis - Three posts Obvious.660 - 2 posts MrMedic - 1 post, edited aRyuujin - 2 posts, both haiku DarthPunk - No posts yet goodkarma - No posts yet Golbat - No posts yet Shady Sands - 2 posts so far Zorkmid - 5 posts Players in order of activity: Promethelax Keirathi Zorkmid Mordanis Obvious.660 aRyuujin Shady Sands alan133 MrMedic -- Lurkers -- Ange777 Darthpunk goodkarma Golbat Once the remaining few lurkers have posted, then we can start scumhunting. The next task is to read through past mafia games and find those with successful Day 1 scumhunts--and see what common lessons can be drawn from them. I'm going to compile a list of those right now. Where he puts a lot of bull shit into the thread and nothing real. He literally used post counts to increase the size of his filter. the other thing in here I want to focus on is his lets wait attitude. for example: from the above post and others He also says that both of these things push town away from hunting for scum, attempting to prevent scum hunting is a huge scum trait. On top of this he misrepresents the facts in newbie 21 (I think) Hopeless1der was lynched d1 as scum so scum hunting has shown to be effective recently. He also replys to my advice by saying scum will blue snipe, they will kill players who won't vote for the right mislynch or who are tunneling scum. There are a million reasons for scum to shoot a bad town player so his first point is wrong and his second point again pushes us away from scum hunting since he insists that vigi shots are our most powerful tool. No they aren't. We are the most powerful town asset and scum hunting is the most powerful town tool. His next post tells us to wait for more people to post until we make cases and the one after that is a case... Sands tells us that we should still hold off even though this guy is the best lynch target. He also tells us that he will likely flip green based on (I assume) the statistics which seems, to me, to be a way to distance himself from a Mord town flip. What originally felt scummy to me in Sands' filter was this post where he says: Re-read that. Do yourself a favour and beat your face against a hard surface. He think that Mord will flip green unless he replys in the way that he (Sands) expects him to in which case he is red...alrighty than. I also hate this post: the bolded part at the end is essentially saying that we should lynch Golbat and if he is green lynch Mord. That seems to be setting us up for two mislynches and, if Sands ever flips red these two are pretty much confirmed town. So based on Sands' play I think that he is scum. He has earned my FoS and as of this moment he would be my vote if nothing changed between now and lynch. I'll be keeping my eye on him because, as he said, just replace Mord with Sands and you see the truth of the statement. He has to keep going and, as Keir well knows, loud scum are easy to find. The other thing that confuses me is the petulance with which Promethelax is trying to become the "town mayor". Here are a few examples: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2012 17:33 Promethelax wrote: If you have set up questions ask the host otherwise you are just wasting thread space and padding your filter while adding nothing to the thread. On July 30 2012 18:14 Promethelax wrote: Sorry I'm on my way to bed and I figured I would quickly reply to Karma before falling asleep. I am sure I'll miss some points but the basic one of why is my play so different now than it was is that I work Tuesday-Saturday. I play better on my days off. As to the town leader thing: I just spent like ten minutes looking for the quote but couldn't find it. I think it was Marv who said (and I'm paraphrasing) "town needs two things, a good annalist and a good leader; they don't have to be the same person they just both have to exist" I'm not saying I should be a town leader or a town analyst, I am saying that town is following my analysis and that I am taking things said by players whom I greatly respect and trying to forge my town play around that. If the two things that town needs are a good leader and someone with good analysis I will try to provide both. I think you and I don't see eye to eye on what a town leader is. I'm not saying we should elect a mayor, I'm saying having someone who is clearly pro-town trying to create a pro-town environment is a necessity for town. By town leader I mean someone who is creating an environment where town flourishes even if the person creating that environment has their head up their ass on every single one of their reads. Essentially, from what I've read about XIX Promethelax kind of mauled town by getting into the "town circle", and controlling the game from there. I don't think a smart person could try the same strategy against people its already been used on and expect to win again. For that reason, Promethelax's inconsistent/illogical/ seems to be a mild indicator of scumminess. Also, being relatively inactive during one day reduces the amount of stuff any player needs to defend himself later. Edit before having to double post (EBHTDP) I am still confused by large parts of his play. For instance the part about lynching semi-lurkers seems sort of like what he's doing. GK hasn't posted nearly as many times as Prom himself, myself, Keir, Ange, Obvious, or Shady. 6 players of 12 left have 3 or more pages in their filter, the other 6 have 2. GK has spent a lot of his time defending himself, so if you take that away he's pretty lurky. But the caffeine is wearing off now, see y'all in the morning. Still, I like the content he generated with that post on GK, so I'll be watching Prom closely. I seriously need to pass out now though :/ | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Was hoping I wouldn't have to do this, but here goes. I do not understand Promethelax's play. It has been at times hypocritical, illogical, and bad. I see very little scum motivation for the way he's been playing, assuming he's a competent player. I don't see any town motivation either, so I would prefer to wait to see if he continues to play the way he has. I haven't been able to look into GK's play much, and Promethelax's case on him isn't very strong, so I can't in good conscience vote for him unless I see another good case on him. Shady is in a similar position to Prom where he's had lurky play one day and weird play the other. Still, I can't seem to pin his play in this cycle as scummy. I don't know why people are suspicious of Zork. In other words, we have kind of a lousy set of cases today, for which I hold myself partly responsible. All in all though, I feel that Promethelax is the best target. His play could be described as a way to disrupt the scum-hunt, to get into a position of town-trust, to buddy up with players to make them feel bad for voting for him. I actually feel bad voting for him at this point, but he is my strongest read. ##Vote: Promethelax | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On July 27 2012 05:52 Promethelax wrote: Hello all and welcome to Newbie 22! I'm excited to finally be in this game. I have, much to my delight, rolled town for the first time in a normal mini. I hope to be able to prove to you that I am as innocent as most of you and much more innocent than our scum friends lead by Marv who, shockingly, rolled scum for the millionth time. On policy: I don't like policy lynches. I feel that town can do better than that and we should lynch scum not liars or lurkers. It is always possible to build cases and to try to lynch scum instead of basing our attacks on a black and white policy. Keir is right about the town RB though, you should hold your power until d2 at least since blocking a blue role can throw us off immensely. Do not RB until you are sure that someone is scum! If you have a perfect read d1 go ahead but I doubt you do. Also Keir: I promise to spell your name right this time. aRyuujin: since you are here would you be kind enough to bless us with one of your Haiku to start some discussion, no need to be silent just because you feel there is nothing to talk about. 2.)I felt the case on Prom was very weak. I committed to my case on Golbat because I felt it was a much stronger case, but I felt Prom was a pretty weak scum read. I hold myself in large part responsible for this because I haven't been spending nearly as much time as I should reviewing the game, and therefore I haven't been able to hunt as much as I would have liked. I am sorry about this. 3.) What was scummy about your patterns were, simply, the patterns. The timing was just so perfect to minimize the fallout from the results. As the second person to vote for Golbat, you avoid suspicion for jumping on a bandwagon. Pressuring other players is good, but it also separates you from your case on the person you voted for. The exact timing of tunelling Golbat when the day was wide open, Mixing your play when the lynch would go between Golbat or SS, and then exclusively pressuring other players when it became clear that Golbat would be lynched seems tailored to avoid negative attention. So perfectly tailored it seems more likely that you somehow knew Golbat would flip town than random play. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
@ Shady I'm glad to see you're back on the active side. Without further ado, to your case: I don't know why you say I had no special reason to go after Golbat when I first pointed out his play. 3 people working together to start a bandwagon not 12 hours into the game seemed like the most obvious place to find scum. So I looked into what all 3 had posted to that point, and found that DP and SS had a fairly good motive to start such an early bandwagon. Golbat just seemed to be jumping on the first bandwagon he saw. So he seemed to me to be the scummiest player of the scummiest "group". That seems like a pretty good reason to post a read on someone. About my excuse for waiting for caffeine, I worked over 8 hours with 7 hours in between. I needed some caffeine to make sense, because I had just had trouble counting. True to my word, I spent all of my coherent time looking in to one person's play. Unfortunately, it turned out to be the wrong person and I came away merely confused. But my "excuse" was only to buy 45 minutes, and I delivered my results. About my tunneling of Golbat: Golbat was at that point by far the strongest read IMO. Of the people who got any votes (Golbat, Shady, Me, Aryuu), the only thing about SS was his early mistake in policy talking, I know I'm not scum, and Aryuu was voted for his haiku and lack of content. Golbat however had several good cases on him, so in the absence of new information (his flip, NK, anything), I didn't see anything else to do. About my vote for Prom: I have already pointed out the reasoning behind this. I hadn't been analyzing nearly as much as I would have liked to, and I thought the cases on Prom were weak. Stronger than the ones on other players, but still weak. His occasional jokes made the thread brighter though, which made me sad to vote for him, but I still voted for my strongest read. This also got me thinking: Keir might have given his mason connections away when he posted that "defense post" of me at the end of D1. Then Mord, if scum, knows that Keir can pull my vote on Prome, so Mord actually casted the deciding vote on Prome. What? About the excerpt from Ver's guide: I didn't detract from a polarized vote because there couldn't have been one. Almost all of the voting came in the last 12 hours, and then I voted for my strongest read. So basically Mord knew Prome was a useless lynch, somebody that he himself did a last minute switch on, and Mord still went ahead even though he thought Prome himself wasn't that scummy. Mord cast the deciding vote on Prome even though he knew Prome's lynch was useless and Prome was not that scummy. I was annoyed at myself for not analyzing the thread more. I hadn't found anyone very scummy, and voting for what I thought was a weak case felt shitty. It feels even worse now that I know how he flipped. So Mord's modus operandi seems to be exclusively targeting players with big, easily exploitable weaknesses, then encouraging bandwagons to form on them. Golbat's newbieness. Prome's repeat of his XIX playstyle. Every single day, Mord will wait for someone to expose a weakness, then try to tunnel them--and he explicitly states that this is his strategy for the town--to pressure people. Then, when people even jump on his bandwagons, he then accuses them of suspicious post timing: 3.) What was scummy about your patterns were, simply, the patterns. The timing was just so perfect to minimize the fallout from the results. As the second person to vote for Golbat, you avoid suspicion for jumping on a bandwagon. Pressuring other players is good, but it also separates you from your case on the person you voted for. The exact timing of tunelling Golbat when the day was wide open, Mixing your play when the lynch would go between Golbat or SS, and then exclusively pressuring other players when it became clear that Golbat would be lynched seems tailored to avoid negative attention. So perfectly tailored it seems more likely that you somehow knew Golbat would flip town than random play. This is misconstruing my post. I said that Ange's behavior D1 was suspicious for its timing. Ange never voted for me D1, or even posted any suspicion on me when I posted the case originally. Finally, my inactivity has been really bad. I feel that I have a lot more information to go on now, so I'll be able to post better. Right below I'll be posting my best reads as of now. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
I don't really think anyone is in a position of trust except for SS. It would have been hypothetically possible for scum to have a "will" written out beforehand, with just the name needing to be changed. The will was posted 12 minutes after the flip, and it contains the people whom he mistrusted, and some other things. If scum were to fake one of these, it would require only one "will" written per night. Assuming the broken link (when I click on the link that was provided in the will, I get a fun TL broken link message) actually provides pretty good evidence, SS is pretty much cleared. Analytical-Active scum tend to try to out-logic their opponents. Players whose playstyle has been dominated by arguing in pure logic include: No one. Maybe JH at this point, but he's new. Ange, Obvious, Alan, GK, Aryuu, Zork and myself don't fit. The first 5 because they haven't really posted a case, and myself because I've made some pretty bad mistakes. Over-pushing the thing about Keir not being blue, shitty D2 play, and no content N2 when people said I would seem really scummy if I started to go inactive are really dumb mistakes. Mistakes that I should not have made, but they don't fit the motives for an analytical-active scum. This leaves inactive scum. I am most sure there will be at least one inactive scum 1.) because inactivity by its nature contributes no content, and scum have been trying to deprive us of content, and 2.) there's been basically no pressure on lurkers except for the votes on Aryuu. The main thing I find scummy about GK's play (his timing for policy-talking about lurkers when there was an active scum-hunting conversation happening) has already been discussed, so I'll move on to my other reads. Alan: Alan started the game quite active in posting large posts addressing several players, along with a read on my play. + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 16:22 alan133 wrote: This is my read on Mordanis @Mordanis My argument for Mordanis is that he is the first person who throws out a case. Loosely quoting someone else in my previous game: It would not make sense for scum Mordanis to trigger the scum hunt while putting himself in the spot light. That said, the problem I had with Mordanis is he is reluctant to give up on his case against Kei despite how other people has pointed out how weak it was. (Refer to his second case) It seems like he is trying to start a bandwagon on a random townie based on their first post. This part caught my attention: Why would you want to find out who is blue or not? That is not the priority here. Are you suggesting it is okay to lynch Kei because he is not blue? What do townie possibly gain from trying to find out who is "not blue"? TL:DR Townie Mordanis characteristics
Scum Mordanis characteristics
I originally had a slight town read on Mordanis, but now I am inclining to think Mordanis is possible scum. ##FoS Mordanis However, I am still reluctant to jump on the bandwagon, mainly because I haven't gone through everyone else's filters, and there a handful people that have yet to produce anything of significance for any analysis whatsoever. I will do so when I'm off work a few hours later. On July 27 2012 19:44 alan133 wrote: @Mordanis You said:- + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 19:07 Mordanis wrote: What is it that has changed your mind? You went from "Mordanis could go either way, started scumhunt but didn't agree with everyone" to "scum", without saying what changed your mind. In fact I just want to point out that if internal contradiction is grounds for lynching, I think pretty much everyone's dead D1. And I really do want to know why Alan is suspicious of me, because I see one mistake (over-pursuing my case on Keir), and I'd argue that this post is equally a mistake. So I wait patiently. Refer to the quote below. When I think you were slightly town it was before you posted your second case.I know that was posted AFTER your second case, but in all honesty I did not read it as I click on "post". I did another evaluation on you so you can see from my quote below. Also, unless I missed it, you have not address my accusation against you, correct? Especially this part: + Show Spoiler + All I said was that he isn't blue. Which leaves the two possibilities of him being scum or VT, which everyone seemed to interpret as pushing for a lynch Why would you want to find out who is blue or not? That is not the priority here. Are you suggesting it is okay to lynch Kei because he is not blue? What do townie possibly gain from trying to find out who is "not blue"? Can you explain a possible town motivation for this? Also, the reason why you were getting more and more suspicious to me. You wrote a counter-case against Golbet, and went so far as to counter-vote him. I thought it was actually decent if you were town. However, you failed to follow through, you did not apply any pressure on your target whatsoever. So yea, if you're asking what makes me think you're scum the more I reread the filter, there you have it. @Ange777 Mind you I am a paranoid person when it comes to playing Mafia, so if you're asking me what do I think, I would say Mordanis appears to be more scummy to me, but I also read Golbat's play as slightly scummy. However I did not go after Golbat lynch because Mordanis is after Golbat, and I don't see both Mordanis and Golbat being scums together. Hence I logically assume Golbat's is a townie playing badly. (Ignoring WIFOM/bussing) Since someone else (you) flashed Golbat out, I would also like take the opportunity pressure Golbat clearing my doubts. @Golbat As of now, I am letting you slide. I am not building a case on you, merely wanting you to convince me why Mordanis isn't what I think he is. I am heading home now, will be back within an hour. On July 27 2012 23:46 alan133 wrote: I am back online. @Shady I skimmed through Shady's filter since other people has rise suspicion, and I found this: I honestly dislike this. It seems like he is pushing to lynch Golbat if Mordanis flips town. Is there something I missed? How are you convinced that scum must be in one of them? For all I know it is possible that both could flip town. I have came out with 2 explanation: A town Shady could have just simply overlooked this possibility, while a scum Shady could be trying to get 2 mislynch knowing both are town.I think both scenarios are equally plausible. It also seems like he is advertising "lynching the other player if one flips town" all over his post. However, it also make me thinks that it is too careless for a scum Shady to do this. TL;DR I am indifferent about Shady's alignment @Golbat The thing that raised my brows is his sudden backing off Mordanis without a satisfying reason. He do stated that he stood back and realized he is rushing towards things. However, this does not automatically discredit the scummy traits we caught on Mordanis. That said, I believe that he is being honest about his feelings and it is reasonable for him to back off. TL;DR I am not comfortable with lynching Golbat @Mordanis I think you misunderstood me. I was asking why do you need to mention if someone is blue or not. I am not saying you're trying to lynch a "blue". I am suspicious of you because you actually care who is blue. I see this as mainly scum motivated. Also, this is a list of things I based my suspicion on you.
Like I mentioned, your first post actually gives me a slight town read on you despite it is based on a far fetched reason, and being the first to make a case that's actually a town favoured trait. However, your later posts shows that you are not ready to back down from your weak case, and go so far as to say something like "Kei must not be Blue", why would you even care if Kei is blue or not? Even in the Townie PoV I suggested in my list, you are trying to say it is okay to lynch Kei, which is anti-town at best. We lynch people because he acted scummy and is possible scum, not because you think it is "okay" to lynch him. You also mentioned you never wanted to lynch Kei. That totally took out the "Townie PoV" I suggested, which means you are trying to hunt for blue roles, unless you can provide me with another reason why Townie would want to go "Player X is not a Blue". I personally thinks it is a scum slip on your part. TL;DR I think Mordanis is the best lynch candidate right now Also, I would like to call out MrMedic, Obvs and aRyuujin. While I am not saying these three people must be scum, I hope they contribute more so we can hear more from them. On July 28 2012 20:42 alan133 wrote: Goodkarma I disagree that we should focus on lynching lurkers at this point of time. We have better lynch targets out there, so I suggest we focus on them. The problem with lynching lurkers day 1 is that it is much harder to make the correct call this early on. Later into the game, townies get more information so we can make a better decision when it comes to low content poster. Also, when it comes to lurking, there are two types of them: 1) Those that post very little, and 2) those that post a lot of junk post. I suggest we drop the lynch lurker discussion and go on scumhunting. It is fine if you want to call out a lurker but with better evidence other than "he lurks". The first successful lynch we got in my last game was a lurker, and despite having very little post count they are all really scummy. The reason you voted aRyuujin also fits in a few other players, MrMedic, Keirathi and Zorkmid to name a few. You addressed one more point why you intend to lynch him instead of the others:
I don't think you should pursue a aRyuujin lynch as of now, a few players have argue that they are not in favor of a lurker lynch (That includes me). I skimmed through his post and the scummy thing I got off him is his poems, which he stopped doing. Current Situation That said, I am feeling very uncomfortable with how the game is progressing. Compare to my first game, the activity level is really poor, and the "active posts" were mostly about Mordanis, Golbat and Shady, based on what has been brought up since 24 hours ago. Also, I did not count, but the impression I got was that is set to be lynched. I feel discouraged because I read Golbat is the least scummy one, of all 3. So I did a re-read on all their filters. Shady I went through Shady's post. Skimming through his filter reminded me of this eerie feeling when I read about his policies and advices, which a few other players have highlighted, so I am not going to repeat after them. There are also one other post in his filter that I am not a big fan of: Like I said, our focus is to lynch a scum, not what happens if player x flips scum. This is the kind of post that got Scum killed in my first game. However, the severity aren't as bad as the one since it is not a list of "what if we kill this player". Also, although my last game has a successful day 1 lynch, I thought Shady just missed it since there are so many games out there. However, Mordanis' did a list of day 1 lynch and from there I saw day 1 scum lynch is not as uncommon as stated. I originally think Shady's willingness to do his research on other games is a townie trait, and I did not put my pressure on him because of this. However, with this new information, I believe Shady lied. TL:DR I am slightly inclined to believe he is Scum. Golbat After re-reading Golbat's filter, my stance on Golbat is townie remain unchanged. Here is my defence for him. Golbat reminds me of my first game. I basically was wishy-washy because I believe we shouldn't jump to conclusions and town is going after me because of that. I spent most of my entire day 1 defending myself. Someone mentioned Golbat spent most of his time explaining why he is town. I say this is a normal newbie townie reaction when people is after you. Golbat's pulling out of Mordanis' case is his biggest scum tell. However, follow this logic: Assuming scum Golbat. Why would he pull out? There are 3 more players after Mordanis if I am not wrong. Assuming Mordanis is town, he could have easily gotten a mislynch. Also, if Golbat is red, pulling out means he would not want to associate himself for pushing for a mislynch. Why would he blatantly say that? So that all of you would jump on him? Town sided Golbat would fit in this behaviour. However I maintain my position that our focus is to lynch a scum, nothing else. However, reading through this thread I found quite a few players doing it, and obviously they all can't be scum. I suggest focus on scum hunting with what information we have now, instead of thinking what information we could get if we lynch the person TL:DR I am against lynching Golbat. Mordanis His post has improved after the ones that accuse Kei for being not blue. Also, he went so far as to check on other games just to find out if Shady is lying, suggested that he is willing to go through the trouble to scum hunt someone for what he said. There is also scum sided explanation: he could be a scum over-committed to twist every word to get a mislynch. However, I think the later is less plausible. With him being the first one to start the scum hunt game, I am willing to overlook the part where he "cares about who is not blue". TL:DR I am swayed to believe Mordanis is less of a scum, I am not a big fan of lynching him right now As the dead line is approaching, I suggest we narrow down the lynch targets. I believe we need at least 7 votes to lynch. I am strongly against no-lynch. That said, I would like to commit my vote to: ##vote: Shady_Sands based on the reasoning above. I will look at Promethelax's filter because it seems like he is set to be lynched. @Promethelax I don't have a deep impression on him. Back in my mind he posted a lot of fluffs but I didn't pay much attention to him since he seems to agree with my reads (at least about Shady) The people he has a scum read in two in-game days is Shady and Goodkarma. That's about 5-6 post spent in about He stays away from Mordanis and Golbat's cases dismissing them as "two player OMGUSing each other". I have to admit Golbat's play was not the best, what makes him so sure about their alignment? I find Promethelax a bit "too trusting". Ryu was posting in haik.. poems. I did not comment on it as he stopped pretty soon. I believe scums could easily twist town Ryu's words while scum Ryu can twist around his own words to cover his slips. Promethelax seems to be okay with it. Also, I couldn't help but notice his buddying up Keir. He claims he has an explanation for that and will post it before the end of night 2. I don't buy it. As far as I know he was the one who was after Goodkarma hiding his "mystery suspect". I know this is in different context, but I believe having a "mystery reason" to be "revealed" after the day lynch (so don't lynch me) is just as bad. I know other players has mentioned it, but the "town ring" thing he posted seemed very suggestive. He went so far as to dismiss it as a joke, which I strongly dislike. I believe making jokes are bad, it leaves up a lot of room for interpretation, and a scum player can always claim they were joking about something that said which is scummy. I deem Promethelax's passive lurking, non committal cases, friendly attitude and general bad play to be very scummy, in fact, reminds me a lot of the last scum that we never caught in my last game. ##vote: Promethelax The combination of becoming less active, posting soft defenses, and his reasoning for voting for Prom are all reason to be put under suspicion. Second, is Zork. I commented earlier that the case against him was pretty thin, but I hadn't looked at his play too closely. Let's start from the most recent. Zork said: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2012 11:21 Zorkmid wrote: Hey guys, just home from the golf course, 72. I'm going to start off by answering questions I've seen and will try and post some analysis either tonight or tomorrow morning. Gf having laser eye surgery tomorrow, playing in this on the weekend. I did forget about him, early on in the game I found it hard to differentiate among the players. Not sure what else I can say about it. About Golbat, I did find his play scummy, especially his on again-off again Mordanis suspicions. I didn't vote for him to avoid a no-lynch, I actually have no problem whatsoever with a no-lynch that early in the game. I believe that now we're getting to the point in the game where a no-lynch hurts more than it did earlier in the game, Scum is getting closer to a win. Barring a lucky save, we're going to lose 2 more townies in the next two nights. That said, another mis-lynch is even worse. About why the possibility of no-lynching appealed to me early game, was that it would give us more time to make a better informed lynch, reducing the chance of a mis-lynch of a town lurker on day 2. We all what happened there. However, at this critical juncture in the game, I think it more likely that a lurker would flip red than a lurker earlier in the game. On July 31 2012 23:53 Zorkmid wrote: The bolded section of this quote is the MOST flagrant example of saying "oooh me I'm green! I'm green!" that I can imagine. This comes after questioning GK's "relief claim" after the flavored night post (which I agree, is not something I'd do if I were green or blue) Darthpunk's attack on you doesn't hold any weight if your posting history is free from a green claim post like that. But it does now. Add to this that you're now doing the same thing and sounds like you're probably planning on claiming Mason, given your upcoming explanation. I hope that it's a good one. Let's see your "spreadsheet". If you're claiming Mason, there are going to have to be some other claims to back this up. ##VOTE: Promethelax On July 30 2012 09:14 Zorkmid wrote: Since we've been told that: All that we really know is that we have a roleblocker(medic or otherwise), and that that roleblocker saved a kill. (I don't buy the idea that mafia didn't use a KP, especially not in a newbie game). From this I can infer that the same person viewed as most dangerous by mafia, was viewed as the most valuable townie by the roleblocker. I'm too tired to do any analysis. And frankly from the tone about my posting, I don't have much desire to. I'll answer some questions: It does seem to be a fairly arbitrary reason to vote for Golbat, I agree. I'll be honest that at the time of my vote, I hadn't been following the game very closely, and Golbat was just the player I thought most likely to be scum as of the time of (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15625737). When I said "town vibe" (refering to Mordanis' case) I just believed he was just trying to get a conversation going, and the reasons he gave for it being a weak case rang true to me. Just saw this question as I was working on my post: Because why risk killing a townie without a good reason. If we lynch MrMedic (as an example of a lurker) and he flips green, what was the point? About Golbat, my reasons for voting for him are re-iterated in this post. I feel a little funny defending my vote to lynch a guy to someone who voted the same guy. Why'd YOU vote for him? Oh right, he played scummy as fuck. Rantddendum: Not so much a fluff post, but I'm sick of being called out for inactivity on a fridaynight/saturday. I was busy, handle it. Same goes for this shit, stop it. You too Keir. I've heard it from several people already. I'm busy, SHUT THE (expunged) UP. On July 27 2012 22:11 Zorkmid wrote: Okie dokey. Just got finished reading the thread pages 10-14. First off on the advice of Promethelax, my schedule for this weekend is that I'll be following this thread throughout the day until about 4PM EDT, then I'm off to a Blue Jays game. Tomorrow is a bit of a milestone birthday for me (official old man), but I'll be back and active Sunday afternoon. Before I talk about the Mordanis-Keir thing, I want to answer Promethelax. The reason that my opinion from "lynch all liars and lynch all inactives" to not feeling as strongly about it is just because I was not aware that a non-lynch was possible. Mordanis's Case on Keirathi I actually got atown vibe from this post. We've all heard about how it is self contradictory and based on a false premise (Keir claiming RB), but I buy Mordanis' explanation that he rushed the case and that the lack of consistent logic and difficulty to follow the case is a result of this. On the same subject, I'm a little suspicious of those players who were so completely convinced that Mordanis is a scum based on this one post, as this was not a reaction I had. Among these people is Shady Sands: I see this as a GIANT leap of reasoning, and I still see Mordanis's case as an attempt (albeit a clumbsy one) to get the ball rolling in XXII. Another of these people is Golbat: So far, Golbat has, in this order: voted Mordanis unvoted Mordanis FoS Mordanis His unvote seems to coincide with Mordanis's making a case on him. He claims he backed off the vote because: + Show Spoiler + This reminds me of that futurama ambassador from the neutral planet. "All I know is that my guy says maybe." I'm not sure what this could mean, but I think that it's worth pointing out. It's one of the stranger seeming posts I've read in this game. Is the deadline today at 17:00 EDT? I am suspicious of both of these players right now, but there's lots of daylight left. | ||
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On August 02 2012 11:21 Zorkmid wrote: Hey guys, just home from the golf course, 72. I'm going to start off by answering questions I've seen and will try and post some analysis either tonight or tomorrow morning. Gf having laser eye surgery tomorrow, playing in this on the weekend. I did forget about him, early on in the game I found it hard to differentiate among the players. Not sure what else I can say about it. About Golbat, I did find his play scummy, especially his on again-off again Mordanis suspicions. I didn't vote for him to avoid a no-lynch, I actually have no problem whatsoever with a no-lynch that early in the game. I believe that now we're getting to the point in the game where a no-lynch hurts more than it did earlier in the game, Scum is getting closer to a win. Barring a lucky save, we're going to lose 2 more townies in the next two nights. That said, another mis-lynch is even worse. About why the possibility of no-lynching appealed to me early game, was that it would give us more time to make a better informed lynch, reducing the chance of a mis-lynch of a town lurker on day 2. We all what happened there. However, at this critical juncture in the game, I think it more likely that a lurker would flip red than a lurker earlier in the game. The slip that Ange is harping on is a little less damning. I admit I didn't notice it the first time, but it is interesting. On the one hand, as scum, your goal is only to defend yourself and not lynch your scumbuddies. For this reason, scum tend to post these "obvious slips" less than town in my experience, because town has much more complicated goals. Townies have to try to analyze what people say to find out who the scum are, try to figure out who is on their side, figure out what information is relevant, etc. Proof-reading for these "obvious slips" is less common for this reason. On the other hand, I did refer to it as an "obvious slip" for a reason. The hypothetical implying that he is not town is a strange way to write, but I don't see it as impossible for a townie to say something like this. It was good to bring it up, and it does make him look more suspicious, but I don't think it is grounds for insta-lynching. His recent case on GK is literally just a reiteration of what Prom, Keir, SS, have posted about GK. Also, by saying that he is looking into GK because 3 confirmed town, he has an excuse for a bad flip- he was just following in the footsteps of !!Townies!!. It is also an appeal to emotion, to view our slain brethren's cases as holy writ ... because ... !!Town!!. It's another attempt to defend himself by trying to associate himself with certain town characteristics, while not actually contributing to good discussion. Town wants/needs information to flow, scum wants/needs information to grow old and stale. Here Zork contributes a case based on others' reads but doesn't actually contribute new reads, facts, or thoughts. Trying to duck out of suspicion with emotion but not contributing anything new is exactly what scum would want. Also, his FoS on me and then case on GK who is being largely ignored seems like he's setting himself to jump on my bandwagon. Finally, I think his emotion post + Show Spoiler [link for !!Formatting!!] + is incredibly scummy. The way he had self-control for large parts of the post but lost it for others makes it seem contrived. Like he's trying to walk a thin line between coming off as a frustrated townie and coming off as an illogical jerk. I don't see any townie trying to contrive an emotional post to gain town cred. It doesn't contribute to the scum-hunt, it doesn't help gain information, it is just a defense that appeals to emotion. Scum who are trying to deny information gain incredible help from this, as it detracts from analytical discussion of motives and alters the way townies think about the player. So for 3 major things that jive with scum play plus a possible scum-slip, and little contribution (besides defending himself) ##Vote: Zorkmid Last thing: @ Ange, please refrain from connection based play until you know the flip. Your argument about JH falls apart completely if Zork flips green, so right now its entirely WIFOM. Connection based play is one of the best tools for hunting scum, but if you misuse it by trying to connect before you know how someone flipped, it is meaningless. | ||
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On August 03 2012 06:47 JingleHell wrote: Frankly, in newbie games, the guy who seems like he's been huffing a mixture of model glue, jet fuel, and plutonium, usually is huffing a mixture of model glue, jet fuel, and plutonium. Thus, Zork could be scum, just like anyone else, but frankly, he's not my first target. I don't consider you telling me you already suspected Shady to be explaining your motive. You wanted me to be after multiple people, but you were happy to just pile evidence on the guy I was already looking at. Saying you already had your eye on him is telling me an action. Not telling me what, from a townie perspective, could motivate that action (hence "motive"). This seems to have been posted at Ange, but I feel it needs to be addressed. Since you feel that posting things from other games is relevant, here is something from my first game: + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2012 16:00 Mordanis wrote: Yes, sir, mister Golden, sir First things first, I just realized that nreekay = Enrique... Yeah... Anyways Nreekay has only really posted three things which can be evaluated, and of course I can analyze his vote. I'll begin with his first analytical post. + Show Spoiler [first post] + + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2012 04:12 nreekay324 wrote: Hello again all, Lots to go through, I’ll try to make it neat; Why I voted for whysomuch so early + Show Spoiler + It was an impulse post. When I saw that yomi voted for him, it triggered me. I played with yomi in a previous game, and I had to endure the aftermath of an overly aggressive play he made (more on this later). My reason was obviously unsubstantiated, + Show Spoiler + (i just really dislike twilight) No-Lynch Stance + Show Spoiler + I’ve alluded to before, and I’d like to state explicitly that I think no-lynch is a generally bad policy, with little exception. Other people have (whysomuch, lazermonkey) have made some points about this. It is very unlikely that by the deadline that town won’t have high-scum read targets to vote for. Sure, a mis-lynch would suck, but it’s not like we’re voting randomly. If there really aren’t clear scum choices, than we should no-lynch. This leads me to the next point, which is why I really think no-lynch is important. Generating discussion + Show Spoiler + More discusion = more info = better for town. If the town’s general consensus flirts too much with no-lynch, then it will encourage lurking. On April 27 2012 22:48 The_Zen_Man wrote: If we vote for a nolynch there will still be people, like yourself, that would oppose that and vote for a person instead. We can use that information to decide everyone standings. The time before deadline will also give us information, as we can observe how people act then. The quality / quantity of information can vary drastically with a town that has a lot of votes and cases and from a town that has some votes, a few cases, and some no-lynches. It goes beyond who voted for who, it’s who voted for who and why they did so. People have to build cases to vote for people, and cases = more discussion. “Meta-game”? (yomi) + Show Spoiler + People have mentioned meta-game elements, specifically yomi’s quick-post. Specifically, Golden + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2012 13:33 O.Golden_ne wrote: I've seen yomi's play before and i understand he likes to be aggressive, and i like his aggression.. i just hope it isn't misplaced aggression and i want him to explain to me why he has picked WhySoMuch other than for his pro-first-day-lynch attitude and his contrary views on the percentages of lynching. i think you have to pick your battles and maybe lynching people with opposing views might not be the key, opposing views lead to discussion, which leads to correct eviction. On April 27 2012 16:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: Perhaps the small shred of logic yomi has shown in his lurking argument makes him less suspicious than Nreekay? Pure SC2 + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2012 23:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: @AcesAnoka - Yomi has a bit of a reputation from his last 2 newbie games and he tends to play the same way regardless of if he is scum or town. He's essentially trying to stir up discussion by posting "off the wall" (yomi feel free to correct me here if you'd explain it differently). Last game it got him lynched day 1 and he was town, so while it's good to pressure him like you are, bare in mind that this is essentially how he plays. Both Golden and Pure SC2 cite yomi’s previous game, in which he played blantantly aggressively and voted early off of little (no) evidence. I know this, because I was in the same game yomi was in. His play severely impacted that game, and it was still on my mind in the beginning of this game. What I find interesting however, is that both Golden and PureSC2 are making the beginnings of yomi’s town case FOR him, with the previous game serving as “meta-game evidence”. This is suspicious to me. They are beginning yomi’s defense case for him, why not let him make it? Further, if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play. If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better. However, I can’t make a claim against yomi because he really hasn’t said much. So, ##FOS: Golden, PureSC2. thezenman + Show Spoiler + Your filter consists of 1)lynch vs no lynch opinions, 2) defensive questioning, 3) a brief overview summary opinions on people. This shows me that although you been posting, you lack substance in your post. Your opinions on people are rather general, or they are merely in dull agreement with others. ##FOS @lurkers; post!!!!! get into town discussion @everyone else; keep posting!! there has been lots of discussion going on, and lots of things analyzing needs to be done. don't be afraid to keep it coming. @yomi; waiting on some concrete analysis ##FOS Golden, Pure SC2, thezenman for now, ## unvote This post occured fairly early in the game. He admits that he jumped on the bandwagon to vote for WhySoMuch because Yomi voted for WSM earlier. In literally the next sentence, Nreekay states that Yomi's overagressiveness is detrimental. Perhaps he was under the same misunderstanding as I was, and thought the day was already a good portion consumed. Whatever the reason, it seems more illogical than scummy to me. On to his second point (he should have used then instead of than, but anyways...), some suspicion has been cast on his saying that the no-lynch is important, despite being pro-lynch. To me it seems much more logical to assume that he was referring to his next point, which is that if we had decided to not lynch the first day, there wouldn't have been much discussion. I don't think anyone would think a first day where there is zero discussion and no lynch favors the town. After that, he simply casts some suspicion on 3 players (golden, pure, and Zen). I think this was actually really good, as it lead to discussion, and helped to establish Golden and Pure as pretty solid non-scum reads. In total, I think that parts of this post were ill-explained or just plain illogical, but I don't see any scumminess. + Show Spoiler [Second Post (O Lord,What have I begun?)] + + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2012 13:57 nreekay324 wrote: @yomi When I posted last night, I was thinking that Golden&PureSC2 were suspicious; They were brushing off suspicion towards you by acknowledging that this was your “playstyle “. But the reason I didn’t flat out say I was suspicious of you, yomi, was because I was waiting on your analysis/reads. Last game, you laid out some good stuff I would have went off of more (if i didn’t get shot). But I’m still waiting for that this game. Maybe you’re holding off until there’s more info, but the pace of this game is so much faster that there’s lots of stuff to go through already. So my point is, I think part of me had acknowledged your aggressive play of random voting, and had already seen you innocent. But I’ve been waiting for you to make a case, or add some analysis, or something.I realize now that my suspicion on golden&puresc2 are highly based on my suspicion of you, yomi. Its definitely possible they’re townies afraid of mis-lynching. (Golden stated he’s for d1 lynch, puresc2 finds no-lynch circumstantially acceptable) It seems puresc2, inparticular, is pretty against mis-lynches. If you don’t add anything, then you have the easiest job right now as mafia, because you’re pretty much getting a free pass atm. ##FOS yomi /remove suspicion from golden and puresc2 until I get a better read on yomi @thezenman I think what I said earlier still stands. But I think also, you have to realize that if you’re town, you should be playing to contribute to the discussion through analysis, interpretation, and taking stances based on these. First, to this ; I would agree with you if you had come out and said my reasoning for voting for whysomuch was shitty. But it was early on, I was impulsive, and that’s all I can really say about it. If you think that I deserve a vote for this, there’s that. But I didn’t make case against them just because they made one against me. There were plenty of people who had/have their suspicions against me. But I made a case against them because I thought I thought I thought I saw a connection between them. (As above, it was related to yomi). I absolutely do not think that people should get voted for no reason, if this were near the deadline it would have been ridiculous. When you say this; it just sounds like; hey, i’ve got to defend myself. you’re not contributing either, why don’t you contribute? You need to contribute more than I do. I want to make the point that your posts should have more concrete analysis. As you mentioned earlier, when you throw suspicion back to people who are pointing their fingers at you, you only look more suspicious. Your post of opinions on people was mainly just like/dislike of those people. I get that you’re being pressured, but take the time to develop more analysis that contributes to overall town discussion. If you’re only defending yourself the whole time, it adds very little. Again, I can't help but approve of the way that Nreekay was driving us forward. Yomi had been suspicious, voting for one person without evidence and then not posting any reasoning or evidence for what he did. Look at that in a vacuum, and it makes a lot of sense. It is just a mite hypocritical for Nreekay, simply because he also voted with basically no evidence. But he then told us why he voted the way he did. I find this odd (and again, illogical), but not consistent with the mindset of mafia. After this part though, he goes on a diatribe against Zen, and I honestly have no idea what it was meant to prove. I simply cannot wade through that portion, and if someone else were to comment on it I'd love to hear something about it. I just have no fucking clue what that was supposed to do, who it was supposed to convince, anything. Summary: Again, his play here seems more illogical than suspicious. Perhaps we have completely different mindsets... + Show Spoiler [The Dark Descent] + I really should have waited until morning for this. Anyways, here's his 3rd post that has real content in it. + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2012 01:52 nreekay324 wrote: Greetings again, D2, here we go; Veriat flipping red. + Show Spoiler + This is awesome for us, because not only did we already get one mafia, he was a roleblocker. I don’t know how many roles mafia get, but that was definitely a plus. Info from votes to who voted for him, there was; Veriat: (7): yomi, The_Zen_Man, WhySoMuch, Pure-SC2, Splinter[eP], Mordanis, O.Golden_ne. Important details include that veriat got the minimum 7/7 votes, and that the swing vote was a vote change golden made from aces to veriat. It seems unreasonable that golden was swing vote to knock veriat off just to gain town cred, as it’s not statistically favorable for mafia on a D1 lynch. For now, you have my town read Golden + Show Spoiler + I can’t see mafia offing one of their own for street cred on a minimum vote, but it’s notable it’s a possibility Looking at Veriat’s filter there’s not much to go off of. He has scum reads on thezenman, me, and jailbreaker. However, he makes no case against them, or (for zenman) a really weak case. In itself, there's so little posted it's hard to make anything of it. yomi flipping green. + Show Spoiler + Personally, I had him pegged as mafia, and I have re-evaluations to do. It’s confusing as to why the mafia chose yomi, he was a lurker, albeit with either good luck or gosu senses on veriat. However, it does give us something interesting, as one person did vote for him... Jailbreaker + Show Spoiler + 1) Only vote on yomi, and yomi was shot night cycle. 2) Posts don’t seem to have a lot of content, there’s a lot of summary and weak accusations/ questioning. 3) This quote in particular; On April 29 2012 04:09 Jailbreaker wrote: nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong. Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part. This was a decent amount of time before the lynch-veriat train really started rolling, jailbreaker tries to advocate against it. He doesn’t provide any case in favor of Veriat however, and just side-steps the issue. 4) And then this, On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline. It’s like jailbreaker wants to let other people make cases for him, so that he can choose the safest one to vote for and thus remain safe. 4) Was on Veriat’s “scum” list. I”ll defer to whysomuch for this; + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 09:12 WhySoMuch wrote: However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone. @Pure SC2- + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2012 06:46 Pure-SC2 wrote: nreekay324 - His filter reads suspicious to me. I see a vote for WhySoMuch, followed by an unbolded unvote. He then leaves it at that. He makes no comment against the most suspicious person in the game so far, who was proven to be mafia. So he votes for WhySoMuch, and has FoS against Golden, Me, Yomi and The_Zen_Man (incidently all of which voted for Veriat). Very suspicious. I should clarify, I hadn’t intended to neither leave it at whysomuch nor unvoted, but I was unable to return to the deadline. (I’ll look at whysomuch again later in this post). Apparently my unvote wasn’t registered so I didn’t get targeted by nova(looks like aces didnt get modkilled either, so I would have been okay anyway?) When I did find time to check up, it was in the night cycle and it seemed fruitless to post anything then. In regards to what you said, I’ll point out that in one of my posts I state that my FoS ; you and golden were related to yomi, as in if yomi was mafia then I would pursue you two. As he isn’t, the point is moot. Also, if you looked carefully, I made those FoS before yomi even voted for veriat. To this; On April 30 2012 17:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: Why was yomi killed? Mafia hit people for a reason. What was the reason behind yomi getting whacked? Well in the course of day 1, other than getting annoyed by WhySoMuch, he had genuine suspicions of two people, Veriat and nreekay324. We know one of them was scum, and nreekay324 is my strongest scum read (refer to my night post just before the deadline). If you were the two remaining mafia, and you had seem yomi lead the lynch on one of your scum buddies, and he had found you suspicious, wouldn't that make him a good target? Interesting points related to the hit on yomi: - After the first day post, nreekay324 states "looks like my suspicions about yomi may have been wrong though..." - this is interesting in that if nreekay324 knows yomi is about to die and flip town it's a good way to clear himself from his earlier stated suspicions of yomi. - People who found yomi suspicious: Jailbreaker, AcesAnoka, nreekay324 I said that because yomi voted for veriat in the very beginning. I thought it was unlikely yomi would have voted veriat in the beginning, because why choose a scum buddy when there were other lurkers to vote? Yomi was highly suspicious, and deserved this suspicion. He was lurking, HARD, and throwing out ##votes for other people to analyze. He could have easily been switching between townies, trying to confuse the town conversation. I’ve been thinking of why they would shoot yomi (I have an idea, as described later), but I don’t know what to say about it “clearing” me. I can deny it, saying that it’d be foolish because it doesn’t clear me, it really incriminates me (I have nothing original now that yomi is green), but then we’ll start throwing WIFOM around and we’ll get nowhere. If you think it’s enough to vote for me, well there’s that. @Golden- + Show Spoiler + Your first half analysis of whysomuch was rolling towards #FOSwhysomuch, but you conclude that he’s more likely an overly aggressive towny in your opinion. Is this because he voted for you/ is suspicious of you? It seems you’re trying to discredit him and his earlier posts, and as such his suspicions of you. I have my own opinions, but I was wondering if this was the point you were making. In regards to my case against yomi, I don’t know what you mean by squirmy. But I would find it agreeable to say that when yomi flipped green, my case got shit on. There’s another post later, where I state that you and puresc2’s suspicions were really based on my suspicions of yomi being mafia, and since he wasn’t I no longer have suspicions against you two in regards to that. Re-evaluations @puresc2, golden -no more suspicions whysomuch + Show Spoiler + This jumps out at me. Why bring this up, right after the mafia lynch? This may be what golden was referring to as “the champion” of veriat’s lynch. + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 08:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Well this game just became a lot more simple. The_Zen_Man Splinter Pure_SC Mordanis Myself Look the best for their voting yesterday Also, he made a case against veriat and helped push his lynch. But quick-scum/town lists based on one or two ideas is messy. It’s more beneficial to take time looking at specifics and make cases (unless you’re mentioning something in a sort of passing way that you don’t want to forget), and then organize that info into lists of scum/town. It’s very confusing play,maybe just scummy town play. thezenman + Show Spoiler + I’m removing my suspicions from him now, for the case he made against Veriat. Its decent enough, and I don’t see any reason he would have, as mafia, to make such an extended case against Veriat, which contributed to the bandwagon to get veriat lynched. Acesanoka + Show Spoiler + A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up. @Blue role players + Show Spoiler + It’d be detrimental to name players, so to “all blue roles”. As I was reviewing yomi’s filter, something popped out to me; On April 29 2012 08:14 yomi wrote: Night time is generally not a great time to post. Let the blue players do what they want and don't give mafia any hints on who they should kill. This is only a thought, but the mafia may have been hoping for a lucky blue snipe. It makes sense, because yomi was semi-lurking (blue roles tend to play more cautiously to protect the blue role). It’s not concrete, but it’s a possibility. We’re already ahead of the mafia, so we don’t need blues to do anything reckless (i.e. claim) ##vote: AcesAnoka ##FOS: Jailbreaker I'll do my best to check this/ stay active more. I understand we need to push the lead we have on the mafia. This actually confuses the hell out of me. It makes sense. In a garbled, warped way, perhaps, but he manages to communicate ideas. This is a major step up for him. Some of the things he brings up I disagree with, but this post doesn't have the batshit crazyness his first two posts had. There are only two things I find suspicious with this post. First, why did he vote for Aces? Yeah, there were some decent arguments for lynching him, but there were some pretty major shake-ups with Veriat turning out to be mafia. The other suspicious thing to me is his little comment about the blue role players. Why would he be able to name names? Why would it be detrimental to to do so? This is the prime example of the illogical world that Nreekay has been posting from. Final read from this: This paragraph exudes illogic and dumb-townie. Almost too much so. It feels, somehow, contrived + Show Spoiler [Final Thoughts] + Okay, so to sum up my feelings on Nreekay, I'd have to say that right now I'm getting much more of an incompetent/illogical town read than a straight scum read. As I just wrote however, it does feel somewhat contrived, and so whether its simply a function of a less-than-superior mastery of the language/rhetoric, or whether he's trying to hide something, is beyond me to say. More than anything, his posting makes my head hurt. Prime example: several times he's told everyone to stop lurking, but he has published little content. WTF? Does he not realize that other people have posted much, much more than him? All said and done, I weakly support a lynch for him in the future if he doesn't change. He isn't adding anything to the discussion, but only distracting from it with senseless posts. The difference I see between him and Jailbreaker is that Jailbreaker seems much more active in his attempts to throw us off (if he indeed is). Where Nreekay seems to be simply bad at communicating (and lilely mafia in general), Jailbreaker seemed to be actively trying to steer us away from voting for Veriat. I'm getting a fairly weak town read for Nreekay, but I don't mind a lynch because I'd say there's probably a 30-35% probability he's mafia (just made that up completely off the top of my head), but either way he isn't helping. So for the final judgement: Unless Jailbreaker manages to completely exculpate himself, I'd favor a lynch for Jailbreaker. I would however vote for either one. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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