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OK Jingle:
1. Calgar accepts my incorrect explanation the rules:
First, he thinks that vaillas do not receive roleblock notificaiton:
On July 19 2012 09:03 calgar wrote:
You were joking about defending me earlier. Asking people to claim? There's #12 on my list. "I do not want to disclose that right now." --> anti-town play. #13
Then, after he reads my post:
On July 19 2012 09:02 YourHarry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 08:59 drwiggl3s wrote:On July 19 2012 08:57 YourHarry wrote:
Also, it would be interesting for people who were roleblocked to claim roleblocked. Are you saying we should tell the mafia who our blues are already? Vanilla townies also get roleblocked. So do scums 
He accepts that vanillas also get notification and withdraws suspicion #12 from above:
On July 19 2012 09:05 calgar wrote:
EBWOP I see your point, I retract #12.
He later clarifies this further:
On July 19 2012 21:19 calgar wrote:
In response to YourHarry, I made point #12 very quickly at the end of my pre-typed post. I was confused about what you were suggesting by claiming that people should claim role-blocked but you guys clarified it by the time I posted so I withdrew the claim because I understood what you meant.
2. Calgar believes that Jingle is Jailekeeper, who claims he Jailed Calgar:
Jingle: You know this happened right? Do you want me to provide quotes for this?
3. Calgar did not receive roleblock notification:
On July 20 2012 09:07 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 09:00 YourHarry wrote:
calgar, if you don't answer this immediately, this is going to make you very suspicious. I didn't receive a notification. Under what conditions is someone notified if they are RBed/Jailed?
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On July 21 2012 00:31 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 00:25 YourHarry wrote:I do think that calgar clarified the rules with the mod via PM or QT which is why I asked: + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2012 09:14 YourHarry wrote:
If someone asks a question to mod in QT or via PM, would you answer them via QT or PM? I don't really know if this is outside the scope of the rules/game or not, but if it isn't then the mods will confirm that I received no mod PM regarding the issue in between my posts, which is what you are suggesting.
Even if mods confirm that you they didn't PM you regarding this issue, there is no way to know whether this has been answered in the QT.
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Calgar, why didn't you find it suspicious that you did not receive roleblocked notification?
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On July 21 2012 00:51 JingleHell wrote:Scumslip #3.6 trillion. Logical Fallacy. In no way contains the words "receive notification".
You are right, in that regard I should have made it clearer. But regardless, for calgar to retract his accusation for me role hunting, he must have understood that I meant vanilla townies get roleblocked. There is NO OTHER WAY.
Regardless, if you'll notice, he ASKED IN THE THREAD when a person gets notification once he understood you.
Yes, I did bring this point up in my previous post. But he asks this much later - only when I am interrogating him, when he should have wondered why he did not get the notification if you indeed jailed him.
Sometimes people "Understand" something, and then realize that they don't. Something can make some sort of sense the first time around to one part of your brain, and then later you realize "wait I don't get it".
Yes, there is a possibility that for some reason, this suspicion did not occur calgar's mind. But this is a generic defense that can be used against many accusations.
Also, you were trying to cast suspicion in a game of FORUM MAFIA by making a response time sensitive. You were pressuring a fast response and then you accuse him because everything you say has seven different meanings, usually mutually exclusive.
I as just asking him questions. Are you saying my questions were not clear enough? May be so, but the questions relevant to my accusation of calgar were pretty clear I thought. I don't know which questions of mine he could have misinterpreted.
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On July 21 2012 00:56 Fulla wrote:
YourHarry, in summary
- you saying that Jingle is pretending to be JailKeeper?
- Calgar wouldn't know whether he was roleblocked or not?
Jingle *might* be pretending to be the jail keeper. But let's focus on my case against calgar.
I am saying that: since Calgar thought that vanilla townies will receive "roleblocked" notifications, when he found out that Jingle jailed calgar, calgar should have expected "roleblocked" notification.
Calgar admits that he didn't receive roleblocked, yet he also didn't find the situation suspicious.
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Sorry I willl be back later.
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Perfection, that is also a valid point. Scum Harry would know that Jingle is jail keeper. There is no way that scum Harry (unless busing Jingle) would try to go against what he knows to be a confirmed Jail Keeper.
Town Harry, on the other hand, is being suspicious for many things Jingle had said, including the untimely breadcrumb. But either way, I am not proposing Jingle lynch today. There is some chance that I could be wrong, in which case we would be risking lynching a blue role.
What I am pushing for is Calgar lynch.
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I am already late for work and will try my best to make some time to post before the deadline. Assuming I am scum, think about this.
Scum Harry is so careless to not try to match the meta and voting style from XX game, even though Harry knows that many players from XX are also playing here.
Scum Harry is daring enough to attract attention by putting his votes all over the place - where his genuine reads are.
Scum Harry is stupid enough to go against claimed Jail Keeper in Jingle.
Scum Harry is getting quickly becoming next inevitable person to be lynched, which is usually an indication that townie is getting bandwagoned by some or all members of the scum team.
Scum Harry, despite knowing that he will be lynched, is so stupid to not claim Detective or Medic, which would allow his scum team to identify one of the blue roles.
Assuming I am scum, I did almost everything I can to draw attention to myself. I even gave up scum team's chance to find out the power role...
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On July 21 2012 02:08 JingleHell wrote:
Are you actually WIFOMing yourself?
All following quotes made by Jingle:
Says everything in mafia is WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +A lot of people seem to dislike this, but I think they're forgetting that evidence is either hearsay, circumstantial, or based in WIFOM, every single time
And again
+ Show Spoiler +Show me a mafia case that isn't based on WIFOM. I dare you. Every single mafia case can be turned into WIFOM, literally.
And I don't know how he does not keep track of things he says, because:
+ Show Spoiler +So your entire explanation for your play is based on WIFOM logic, applied by you, to you... right. Someone else want to do this guy? I'm going to bed. And I've seen enough filters for tonight.
But while EVERYTHING is WIFOM, I guess somethings are "Heavy" WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler + It's heavy WIFOM, but it was a mediocre effort, and too little too late. Certainly not enough to make him look clean to me.
or "Useless" WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +Like I said, you're taking us into useless WIFOM arguments here, but unless a situation is clutch, scum should be trying to avoid linking their fates like that.
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And he often dismisses things just by saying "It's just WIFOM" while he admits that everything is WIFOM. So if everything is WIFOM but one can dismiss an argument for being WIFOM, the logical conclusion is that everything can be dismissed in mafia.
But I digress. Please read my accusation on calgar. I do not understand that no one else thinks calgar is scum.
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On July 21 2012 02:26 JingleHell wrote:
Applying WIFOM to yourself is about as good of evidence as roleclaiming VT. Rock solid, that shit.
"Heavy" WIFOM is when there's so much of it that you need a fucking flowchart to keep track of the argument, like everything you say.
"Useless" WIFOM is when you're in a position where an argument involves both parties arguing circular WIFOM back and forth at each other.
And everything in Mafia being WIFOM merely refers to the fact that you can make a WIFOM case in any direction you want based off of literally everything said in a mafia game.
Not to mention that you're actually not even pretending to take either of those bits in context of themselves, let alone the thread as a whole at the time.
Wrong, because here is where you SIMPLY DISMISS AN ARGUMENT FOR BEING WIFOM:
JingleHell says:
Frankly, you can't trust WIFOM on it's own, and that's exactly why you're saying he's not scum.
But everything is WIFOM, there is nothing other than WIFOM. So there is nothing to trust?
And here is Jingle dismissing Hapha's accusation, simply saying it's WIFOM
JingleHell says:
Haven't I already commented on the pile of WIFOM you're trying to feed me?
Again, I should not spend more time into arguing regarding this, because I do think that townies are also capable of making this kind of contradiction. Thus, your incapacity to keep track of things you say is NOT the reason why I am suspicious of you, though maybe it should add to it.
Today, Calgar. But it's beginning to look very hopeless for me.
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All right Jingle. My emotions got the best of me. I do not have any beef with you, not today I take back personal accusations of you.
Despite you not liking the way I play, please try to see the points that I am making. I would not make sense to go after you, head on, if I am scum. I would not make sense for me to openly change my votes without reason.
If you do not like calgar lynch, who I am still quite sure about, we can talk about lynching hopeless1. I know we have not been talking about him, but he is the next person on the list.
Hopeless has been very quiet, actively hiding behind other people's read, passively lurking. In particular his last post makes me suspicious:
On July 21 2012 00:07 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 23:04 calgar wrote:
@hopeless
You said you wanted me to make a case. What is your read now that you have read my huge explanation? I've read through the responses you have and the biggest thing is you got Jingle to move his vote off you. At present, I am still reading into the case on YourHarry as I have yet to go through his filter. For who I'd want to lynch, coming after you is probably not going to happen until after iamperfection at this point in time since Hapah and Jingle seem to agree that you aren't the scummiest read right now. Your tone has drastically changed and you are significantly less argumentative. As usual, this can be spun to look like scummy behavior, as with anything else. I initially found the timing of your breadcrumb and then calling Jingle out for his own breadcrumb a little off - Why reveal we have a blue role? - But since the mod clarified that you never even received a roleblock PM, this looks much better in your favor as his actions could have looked suspicious from your end. I'm satisfied that you've maintained a stance that iamperfection is your strongest scumread. To be honest, I still have my suspicions that you're both scum and are bussing one another, but iamperfection has a more obvious scum feel to his filter, by which I mean he contributes very little to town. I need to complete reading up on the case on YourHarry before I decide if I want to try to defend him in order to get iamperfection lynched today. Calgar, you're off the hook for now in my book.
He does not say anything about my case on calgar, but is going to "read" the case against me to later come back on maybe vote for me if doing so would make a difference in mislynching me. Rest of the post is a fluff. I can try to find more scummy posts from Hopeless1. Give me some time. I really need to go to work.
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OMG this is a miracle, but I am OK for lynching anyone else but me of course. I think I still prefer Hopeless, but wiggles has been lurking and is trying to benefit from my lynch.
##Unvote
##Vote drwiggl3s
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Wow! Good job guys!!
On July 21 2012 08:57 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 09:45 YourHarry wrote:
If you are the jailkeeper (other than Jingle), please counter-claim. Harry - please explain this request for someone to claim. You were trying to make a case for jingle but why would it be beneficial to the town to reveal the blue?
Calgar, I was suspicious of Jingle at the time. Which means I didn't believe he was the Jail Keeper. So assuming there is no more than one Jail Keeper, a counter claim means either Jingle or the whoever else claimed Jail Keeper is scum.
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I was dead wrong about JingleHell. He is CONFIRMED TOWNIE.
But in my defense, even though I didn't buy his claim, I also did express my reservation on why JingleHell is not a good lynch, at least not yesterday. And my suspicion mostly came from not believing that he did not know vanilla townies get roleblocked. Of course, after what happened with drwiggle, I want to almost COMPLETELY withdraw any suspicion I had with Jingle.
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##Vote tube
Tube, come defend yourself.
My case on Tube coming soon.
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Tube's filter is not short. It is 4 pages long, but browsing through his filter, especially during the beginning of day 1, I cannot help but wonder how none of his posts contribute toward scum hunting. I know this had been touched on before, but here is a representative screen shot of his filter, beginning of day 1. As this is just a screen shot, I encourage you to go through his filter yourself:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8OQ8M.png)
His excuse is that he had no information. Which is fine. But in the midst of having "no information", he does accuse drwiggle in what I think is an attempt to bus his scum buddy. Here are some examples:
+ Show Spoiler +
drwiggl3s your first post is you jumping on the (completely pointless) JingleHell mini-bandwagon against me
and then going on to say that not posting content-heavily means im trying to "fit in" which i wouldnt otherwise try to do as town
if thats your first and only read so far the only person i have a read on is you
To drwiggl3s:
+ Show Spoiler +honestly mafia is laughing at you
And drwiggl3s's attempt to bus tube:
+ Show Spoiler +That isn't even all the one liners that you've posted so far. Majorly shitting up the thread with these useless posts with no decent discussion behind them is a noob-mafia play. You have over 30 posts. And before you changed your posting style they were mostly one liners like these.
Finally when enough people called you out on it you began to post better discussion and actually decent posts, but to me I still think your a scum that is skirting by right now. The only one contribution you had so far was calling out lurkers when the heat was on you and making a list of their names. The only reason you're not being lynched right now is because people have tunneled onto other people since then. But I still think your dramatic change in attitude, posting style, and content is evidence of coaching.
Basically, drwiggl3s and tube's interactions are very uncharacteristic of their typical interactions with other players. They talk about petty ideas and call each other out for being possibly scummy.
However, when the deadline nears tube opportunistically jumps on the Obvious.660 bandwagon and contributes to the mislynch. Of course, that mislynch bandwagon also included myself and confirmed townies Jingle and Evul. But if you subscribe to the idea that the mislynch badwagon probably included at least one scum, tube's jumping on Obvious.660 wagon should make him more scummy.
Finally, near the deadline of D2, when the attention shifts from lynching me to lynching drwiggl3s, tube makes the following post:
On July 21 2012 04:24 tube wrote:
sorry guys i havent been following much lately but I still think perfection is a good lynch
##Vote iamperfection
In this crucial moment, he does not contribute to to discussion against drwiggl3s and completely ignores Jingle's case against drwiggl3s. He provides:
1. excuse for his action, which is he hasn't been following much lately and
2. an attempt to distract town from drwiggl3s, hopefully in an attempt to save his scum buddy without directly defending his case.
In conclusion, tube's interaction with drwiggl3s is uncharacteristic and his distraction attempt when drwiggle3's scuminess was beginning to be realized makes him very scummy.
Finally, I want to dedicate this post to our late Jail Keeper JingleHell. Rest in Peace:
![[image loading]](http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/assets_c/2011/05/prison_guard-thumb-250x300-4550.jpg)
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"Where is my prune juice" - Jingle
It's past deadline, isn't it?
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Mod could you update the player list on page 1? Thanks!
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EPT
