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On July 19 2012 16:05 Miltonkram wrote:
My understanding is that framers can make scum players look innocent or town players look guilty.
@ gonzaw
My initial impression is that Mattchew is town and you are scum. I feel like the cases made against you are much more concrete than the cases made against him. I'm currently cross-checking filters chronologically with the thread. This takes a lot of time and effort, so I'm not spewing shit all over the thread and drowning it with all my half-baked opinions, unlike someone I can think of...
Not good enough.
If you are actually doing the "cross-checking filters", then you should always post your findings in the thread if not we can't know if you are actually doing it as town or not doing it/half-assing it as scum.
This takes a lot of time and effort, so I'm not spewing shit all over the thread and drowning it with all my half-baked opinions, unlike someone I can think of...
Is it really shit? Are you sure?
Can someone tell me if everything I'm writing is shit?
I may be trying to overpost right now but it's the only way to show I'm transparent with my thoughts.
It's the only way to show I'm actually putting effort in this game and that when I say "I'm reading the thread/filters" I actually mean it
It's the only way to contribute to the thread, be active, instantly react, not hesitate, etc to show people that I'm town.
Apart from Bang Bang 2 I was never lynched, nor misslynched as town (I wouldn't really count that though >_> ), I don't plan on that happening today either, so I'm doing all I can to prove I'm town, specially now that Bureaucracy Mafia has slowed down a little bit giving me more time to put into this game.
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Sorry, don't have time to read Milton's filter.
I do start to get the feeling he's more likely scum than Dropbear, specially with his responses towards me and how easily he changed his vote to me without stating a SINGLE reason (other than "I'm sheeping Mattchew's case").
I already said his vote on Keirath seemed flimsy too....but hmm I'm trying to figure out if he could do that because he's "noob" and stuff or not.
I'd bet on him being scum, but hey I can be wrong so maybe we should go one step at a time.
Everybody please post your thoughts on these things I've posted. Risen+sciberbia please reconsider voting me today and vote Mattchew or even Milton if you want (or Dropbear if you can convince me he's scum).
I don't know what else to do to prove I'm town, I don't think the accusations against me hold any water since you guys are just using confirmation bias by saying "oh, if gonzaw is scum...then he acted weird about his scumbuddy talismania...therefore he's scum".
You guys never stopped to think why I could have acted like I did if I was town, or what actual motivation I would have to act like that as scum
I already said a scum me would not just stand idle while talis is getting lynched and actually convince people to NOT vote for other people, like when I tried to convince solstice NOT to vote S&B, and when I tried to convince S&B NOT to vote Dropbear.
If I was scum that would seem like a sure-way to get my scumbuddy talis lynched (I convince everybody to unvote anybody that isn't talis) while not reaping the benefits of a bus, meaning I'd get into a situation similar like this one, but being scum, when I could have either bussed talis and get here with "huge amounts of town cred bro!" or try and get a misslynch on D2 so I'd be 6v3 right now with high chances of winning.
I'm busting my ass here posting reads, rereading filters, posting opinions, reconsidering all possibilities, actively responding to people that address me, and interacting with anybody I can without thinking twice.
I seriously can't think of anything else to prove I'm town, I can't.
Hopefully someone on Obs QT can sympathize with me, or someone in Post-Game, since I don't think I'm doing anything wrong.
Hell I'm posting less than in MTG mafia and ONLY have 8 pages of filter (not 17 >_> )
I even tried to cut back the posting a little bit.
Anyways, that will be a discussion for Post-Game. I think I've said everything I needed to say, except I haven't read Milton's filter by now (and solstice....but thank god logic is there to save me from that chore >_> )
I'll do that tomorrow....and then do nothing I guess? :/
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It's because I derped about the setup like 1000 times isn't it? :/
Damn you setup!!! *clinches fist into air*
I'll have nightmares about Masons and TTTs and CCs >_>
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That really is a large part of the reason I'm thinking about voting for you - the aggressive refusal to read the thread despite being called out on it multiple times by multiple people over multiple days.
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On July 19 2012 12:28 gonzaw wrote:
Framers only frame townies to get a red check (never heard of framers being able to frame their own buddies to get them to check "town"...that's what Godfathers do).
This is egregious. Every time a framer has been mentioned in a thread since I've started playing TL mafia, someone has mentioned the possibility of framing their teammates; there's no reason to assume the opposite so blithely.
It's just, like, enough is enough - at a certain point we have to assume that this is malicious. I just can't decide what the odds are that Gonzaw would actually do as much work as he is claiming and posting without even reading the OP.
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so I'm back, and I don't like what I see.
I'm not letting this go, my case against Mattchew is here.
Read it.
sciberbia-- your suspicions of me are blinding you the the merit of my arguments here. The thing that should stand out the most is how different Mattchew has looked while trying to get Talis killed, and while trying to get gonzaw killed. With Talis, he built up this huge head of steam, asked us as individuals to get on his case...basically forced it through however he could. Compare that with gonzaw. He posts a case, then while it lingers and we aren't talking about it, he spends his time asking his #1 scum read to remake his case against him. He was barely trying to push this read when it REALLY needed to be pushed. This is really important, it's strong evidence that Talis was a bus.
s&b-- have you read my case? I want you to vote Mattchew. Go through his filter with a mind for both scum and town motivation. Remember he busses teammates a as scum. Look and tell me what he has done to help town win this game.
gonzaw-- are you on board here? I know you suspect Mattchew, I need to check but I think that is where your vote lies currently? I hope you stay on target here
Milton-- same deal. I want to know what you think of my case.
Keir-- You have been suspicious of Mattchew before. Does my case align with your thoughts on him? I want your vote.
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Solstice the problem with your case is it assumes "having played more games = better player". Essentially, I don't think your case makes sense because it assumes Matt isn't terrible.
To be more specific, Matt is terrible at posting cases and things that get people to do things. He's very good at not getting lynches as scum, and he's no worse than anyone else with finding scum when he's town. But your case relies on him having bussed talis and there being a difference between his day 1 and his day 2. You're ignoring his flailing during the first half of day 1, as well as the fact that his case against Talismania was terrible and it was sciberbia who actually persuaded people to kill Talismania.
Now, I don't have any really compelling reasons why Matt is town other than a semi-gut-read which says that he's putting a lot more effort into posting about other people than he usually does as scum, and that he's not a cancer on the town atmosphere like he usually is. So I don't expect that to persuade you; but I do not find your case at all persuasive.
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When he buses teammates as scum he doesn't actually try to kill them, he just calls them out and leaves it in the thread.
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i can has vote count plzzz?
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I'm not ignoring his flailing during day 1. I pointed out he did fuck all to help town day 1.
You say Matt is terrible at posting cases and getting people to follow them....what about in the case where a townie is directly working with him to forward his interests? If sciberbia hadn't said anything against Talis, would this fit your idea of him not getting lynches as scum? Would we have lynched Talis without sciberbia's effort?
Also, I'm going to correct you. It's the difference in his play between day 2 and day 3. Day 2- he's all over Talis, drives it ahead as best as he can....Day 3- after posting a case on gonzaw night 2, there is basically no push.
He doesn't seem to mind that we are trying to find scum outside of gonzaw, when his top read was gonzaw. In fact he labels is a positive.
On day 2, he told people they should be finding Talis scummier than their current read. He asked us as individuals to switch to his read.
And like I said, when he should be pushing his case, when it must must MUST be pushed, he's wanting to defend himsel from his top scum read.
I don't really know how else to spell this out.
Please reconsider s&b
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Also, go look at LVI. As time went on, it was very clear Matt was town. His logic was solid, his short comments were often helpful. Compare that to here.
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On July 19 2012 14:37 Miltonkram wrote:
@ Risen
I don't think DropBear is scum. He attacked talismania fairly early on D1. Talismania attacked him too. It's possible that they were bussing each other early, but I find it extremely unlikely. Because of that I'm giving DropBear the BOTD.
@ Gonzaw
I have a small filter because I've been busy. If you've looked through my filter you'd notice that I had to help my father move. The move happened rather suddenly so I wasn't able to budget time in for this game, hence me missing the vote D2. I'm doing my best to catch up and contribute today, but there is a lot of posts to wade through.
Wait a minute
I was just reading Milton's filter and I saw this
He makes a case on Talismania day 1, then jumps off him onto dropbear
Then at the start of day 2 he still says dropbear is his top scum read for a large number of reasons, none of which changed when Talismania flipped scum.
Note also that dropbear didn't actually vote Talismania despite "going after Talismania" being the main reason people think he's town.
I think either dropbear/Gonzaw or dropbear/Milton is the scum team.
##vote: dropbear
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At this point if it comes down to a Keirathi v gonzaw lynch I would definitely lynch Keirathi.
While both ummed and ahhed about voting for talismania yesterday, gonzaw put his money where his mouth is and voted for him. Keirathi didn't.
Keirathi also ran with talismania's terrible case on me day 1, a case which helped get talismania lynched.
Still think we should lynch Risen but if it comes to it I will switch to Keirathi.
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Dropbear, did you read my case on Mattchew?
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On July 19 2012 23:07 s0Lstice wrote:
Dropbear, did you read my case on Mattchew?
Not yet, I'm reading up.
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Wanna know how I know Gonzaw is scum. Cause he's not stupid. Posting all this shit about 2 scum members, is stupid. Guess what guys, WE CAN STILL ONLY LYNCH 1 PERSON, and if they flip scum town goes up 6 to 1 (and if that person isn't risen, we can get 3 confirmed townies real quick).
Gonzaw to answer your question I could not have a care in the world TODAY who your teammate is. You seem to forget something (that I know you are smart enough to know), and that is that scum (OMG SHOCKING INFO AHEAD) can talk to each other and fake relationships in the thread! This is why connection theories like the awful ones you are flooding the thread with lose so many games for town.
Guys, Gonzaw is scum.
s0l what did you think of my response to your case?
s&b what do you think of my case on gonzaw
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who said dropbear went after talis?
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Solstice I'm saying he doesn't get lynches as town or scum
The difference is when he's town he tries to when he's scum he doesn't.
I'll read lvi when I get home but he was town in lv with me and played way less logical and helpfully than he has this game. That's not a town tell.
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@matt Milton did and I think Gonzaw did too
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K solstice I read it. Some of it I like, some of it I don't. I hadn't even been looking at Mattchew since he was so strongly behind the gf lynch.
Matt's day 1 was atrocious, I agree.
I disagree that his pursuit of talismania was different to his pursuit of gonzaw. He seems hell-bent on killing gonzaw as he did with talismania.
Your WIFOM points I disagree with and are null to me. The buddying null.
The claiming of credit looks bad.
The fact that is still alive after the talis lynch is interesting. I am unaware of his reputation having not played with him before, but he did go hell-for-leather to kill the gf. They didn't shoot sciberbia either though and he was the first person to post a case as far as I can tell, so I'm not sure what to think about this just yet. The longer he stays alive the more likely he is scum.
You've managed to make me more suspicious of him but I still think there are better candidates for lynch.
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EPT
