I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 49

On July 13 2012 07:49 gonzaw wrote:

-------------------- snipped: a rather large post about s&b, scib, talis ----------------------------------------------------------

Why are you voting him Mattchew? What about all those guys I listed in my previous post? (Risen/Dropbear/Milkton/Kei/austin)

Do you think sciberbia is more likely scum than any of them?

What do you think of austin?

On July 13 2012 07:52 gonzaw wrote:
@marv+Mattchew: I'd like both of your opinions on austin+Keirath+those guys I posted about.

I can't see anybody other than those 6 being scum for the moment (Milkton's last post doesn't strike me as scummy, so he could be town perhaps), so I think we should focus our attention on them for today's lynch

Of course I won't "force" you to do anything (if you think someone else is scum), but at least pay some attention to those guys and if you trust my reads pay even MORE attention to them and post your thoughts

(this applies to everybody too).

On July 13 2012 07:54 talismania wrote:



loooool I love how you shit on my plan and then literally followed it to the T in that post. Three reads, one sentence explanation, at 24 hours into the game. :-)

In response to your blurb on me I think "backpeddling super fast" twists my words. I posted a half-assed plan expecting it to get shot down but knowing it would probably generate discussion. don't see how analyzing the reactions means I'm backpeddling. What's with your needling of me in general? I ignored the "are you just active lurker" post at first but maybe keirathi is onto something with you.

____________

I'd prefer austin or dropbear, leaning dropbear. I don't like milkton's last post either. There's a touch of omgus to my feelings there but I also think his argument he just made about me doesn't make much sense. Although come to think of it I dunno why he would come in out of the cold and start making a case on me does seem a bit random as scum.

austin's reply to my poke at his post was rather overwrought which fits with my model of him as nervous scum but I guess that could just be the way the guy is too. solstice you said you know him - what do you make of it?

On July 14 2012 02:16 s0Lstice wrote:
Marv, in regards to gonzaw, I've been reading through Liar game, and I wanted to share a few things I've noticed. You are first of all right about his activity level being alignment null. That was obvious. Others though I think are pretty telling
-he was very cautious about calling someone town
-he tunneled the shit out of Cephiro
-he cast suspicion on a handful of people for various reasons, often because of bad play, but it was never to the detriment of his focus on Cephiro.

In this game
-he very early on was making town-reads while he hunted scum, and was public about it
-he has not tunneled anyone, but rather cast a wide net to see what sticks. I'd even call it lack of focus, which is generally a town trait.
-he has been factoring in new information and adjusting his reads

On June 07 2012 15:42 gonzaw wrote:
The thing is that when policy lynches haven't been enforced yet in previous games, starting to enforce them in a specific game creates a shitstorm and would most likely murder that game.

Imagine that a certain game starts, and everybody decides to policy lynch lurkers.
So you lynch your 1st lurker on D1. He would be most likely town, but no worries, you think everybody else will stop lurking by now and we solve the problem right?
Wrong, players that lurked until then will keep lurking (or being inactive for stuff from real life), and you'll keep policy lynching them throughout the game, most likely earning scum a win and making the game boring as hell.

Yes, if many games enforced a "lurkers" policy lynch, then the more time goes on the larger the probability of there being fewer and fewer lurkers in games. However that comes with the cost of maybe making each game it's implemented a total chaos, and those (specially town) that play those games want to win them, and they know that by just policy lynching lurkers that isn't achieved so there's less incentive to enforce them.

That was the "Lynch lurkers" policy, if you do the "Lynch blue claims" policy you'll do the same thing since blue claims will still start showing up (hi VE!) and you'll still end up lynching them and them flipping blue, again making the games more boring and shittier for town (or for scum if they wanted to make an epic play or something).


It's like being fat and starting to diet and exercise. You know it's good in the long run, but as soon as you start it you hate it because it ruins everything to you in the present and makes things uncomfortable.


So, is TL Mafia willing to drop weight or not? Maybe someone can spare a liposuction so we avoid this altogether >_>.

On July 16 2012 06:42 gonzaw wrote:


Yes you were, don't lie:

On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:


Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum.
Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch.

On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:


Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out.

Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort.

I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something).
I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour.



That was marv

On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote:


Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well.
What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess

On July 16 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote:


I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew.
I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it).

I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones.

On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote:


If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it).



I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then



I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that.

Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck.

Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well.

---

(damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with)

On July 16 2012 11:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, I've been rereading some stuff and I drop my suspicion of austin, I just can't see him as scum at the moment.
Some of that stuff you guys (sciberbia && austin) said makes sense. Plus what I said last night (that S&B's actions did make sense with him being overly frustrated at me, plus his suspicion of solstice and shit) it's likely he's town.

Okay, 2 conundrums resolved, now onto talismania/Dropbear/solstice/Mattchew/Risen/Keirathi

Just by gut feeling without reading those cases (again, sorry really don't have the time, I'm putting lots of effort in that other mafia game....hey if you guys want you can check it out if I link it to you, you can learn one thing or two ) I get the feeling the scum are there and nowhere else.
I haven't checked Milton too much, but I get a feeling he's town, specially because of his stance on talis which he changed after people pointed out how "bad" it was (in the sense that he was only talking about meta).
His case on Dropbear seems legit, since I can't really see him heavily accusing someone that considers him almost confirmed town as scum.

So by process of elimination (sciberbia, S&B, austin, Milton), it leaves those 6, with 3-4 anti town factions (scum+SK), so I think this day will be a good one.

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About Keirathi:
I get the feeling Keirathi is town but I'm not that sure, I wouldn't mind leaving him for later.
Basically, some of what I said earlier applies, in the sense that he didn't really try to scumhunt until being called out (by marv), and those reads seemed pretty bad (specially the one on S&B). After that he spent most of his time defending himself and not really trying to scumhunt. Plus since N1 and D2 I didn't see him do anything constructive at all (hell did he even post in D2?).
His defense of Vivax could have given him town points...but I'm not sure (scum opposing a town misslynch on D1 isn't uncommon at all).

There are little things that make me think he's town (I've explained them already I think), and tiny bits of reaction he made that I don't really see him making as scum. However those reactions were basically the only thing in his filter at some points, and there was very little scumhunting in between.
Now that I look at the tone of his posts it seems townie too me though (gut feeling) so maybe he's likely town

I just noticed this:


So I guess that's the reason he wasn't active.

Hmm, I'm slightly leaning town but I'm not that sure. Just like Risen I need him to actually do something today to solidify my read on him

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I already discussed Risen (I'm waiting for him to come back), and I'll discuss Mattchew a little bit:

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About Mattchew:





I like these since they are concise and give good info. Talis plan was bad and he immediately pointed out without dragging it on. He pointed out the "root" of my accusation and basically agreed with it, even though he was one of the guys I accused (and I mentioned before I wouldn't really expect this from scum Matt, I thought he'd either ignore it or shit on it).

His next posts are good as well, I like how he's not shitting on me and reads me okay by that point (that might be a little biased though ).

He does make contributions that are indeed "concise" and improve town's atmosphere. He even goes to great length to defend Vivax from marv even before the Vivax wagon started. As well as his read on S&B.
So far (assuming S&B is town) that would be a VERY passive game for Mattchew to make as scum, in the sense that he doesn't start shitting and accusing townies left and right, but actually making sense and getting those townies to be recognized as such.

His later posts don't really seem the same way (trying to improve town), yet seem more like slightly irrelevant one-liners. Him defending Dropbear and me does seem townie though.

However, after that he makes his blunder, where he posts asking for the vote count, but doesn't do shit and keeps his vote on sciberbia.
I found this extremely scummy because he WAS active then and as a townie would have cared more about the lynch (and his vote), yet he didn't seem to care.
I find it odd as well how now Mattchew seems to avoid that issue and not give me an explanation at all (was he really busy and in a hurry or was he lurking the thread at that point?) that could completely remove my suspicion on him (well not "completely" but I would disregard it).

I don't like this drunk post at all:



Since I don't know wtf he's saying and why he thinks I'm scum.



Here he posts sober but fails to explain his behaviour last day, even though he should have read that me+marv+others found it suspicious as fuck.

From then he seemed less interested in improving town's atmosphere than early-D1. He didn't explain himself at all, and throughout all N1 didn't do shit.

I may agree with his case on talis (need to filter talis first), but after that he doesn't really do a good job of explaining himself (about his behaviour or why he thinks I'm scum).
I don't like how he's casting suspicion on me right now either, yet refuses to say anything about me or why he changed his town read on me.

However, I could see town Mattchew just not caring about his D1 fluke and thinking I'm shitting up the thread about it (thus making him a little bit more suspicious of me), but those reasons above don't make me confident in thinking he's town at all, specially since I know Mattchew is capable of doing that "fluke" as scum just to skate by D1, whether other people find it scummy or not (he wouldn't really care as scum).

This is why I'm torn on him, and why I wanted that explanation from him.
I would also like an explanation on what he thinks of sciberbia ever since early-D1 and why he changed his mind on me (him not responding these strike me as suspicious as well, since again I can easily see scum Mattchew just not caring about it at this point).

He had a good start that made me think he was town but some of his actions and behaviour made me doubt that (since scum Matthew could have just tried to appear pro-town on early-D1 like that)

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Holy shit that was long.

Anyways, I do feel solstice+talismania are scum, and well didn't really read on Dropbear yet (or these new cases) so I'll do it shortly.

I don't really know how to decipher the talis/Dropbear situation (if one is scum, or both are scum, etc), but I'll give it a try.

For now I wouldn't oppose a talismania lynch at all by what I've skimmed (plus talismania has basically been useless all late-D1, and all D2 as well).
I don't know if maybe I'd support a solstice lynch better, or if I change my mind and find Dropbear more scummy, but we'll see once I read the thread once and for all!

Stay tuned.

On July 16 2012 11:47 gonzaw wrote:
Fuck it I doubt I'll change my mind about talismania.

##Vote: talismania

Just wanted to get the vote out there for a more "official" standing of what I said before.