Newbie Mini Mafia XX

On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie

On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here
1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true.
2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day.
While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.

I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy.

Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons.
1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2.
2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more.
3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still.
We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him.

Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post!

On July 05 2012 09:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm getting suspicious of Jingle.


1st post. Instead of commenting on my post he starts to ridicule it, effectivly killing discussion about it. Instead he is the first one to start shit up the thread with sex-toy w/e. Also, instead of posting his own reads he says I'd feel silly making a similar one which doesn't make any sense at all. I'd much rather have a post about your thought's on scum hunting rather than sex toys. At least when we are playing mafia...

The next couple of posts he is effectivly fills half the thread with his talk about Evul being a perv and what not.

If you would write this as a first time player I could be somewhat cool with it. But you are not. We want to lynch scum, not lurkers. And we absolutly don't want to roll the dice.

And I really don't see how you are very suspicious about the vote. There were ~50 hours untill deadline when he threw the vote. How is this even close to start a bandwagon? Like wtf?

But at this point you only had one minor post of substance as well.


I don't get this post. I may be missunderstanding this but if there is no substance to the case then why would that even be considered a case? And why on earth would someone ever get lynched by such a ''case''

Once again, there is no threat of a bandwagon at all. Why do you keep saying that?

What I find maybe most intresting is how you start the game by shitting up the thread and literally don't post a single usefull thing. When the first vote get thrown tho, You go ''WTF DUDE, VOTING IZ NOT COOL''. No, I agree that the reasoning behind the vote to begin with was verrrry vauge but I don't really see why you get so upset about it ESPICIALLY since it's not even on you.

##Vote JingleHell

On July 05 2012 13:46 Hapahauli wrote:


You've just posted a list of four names while saying nothing of value yourself. Rather scummy behavior.

On July 05 2012 16:37 Lazermonkey wrote:

No matter how bad a first post is, it is a discussion starter, no? And I don't even agree with it being bad because of reasons I've already staten at this point. And if my post is to get town to start talking about useless things, what is Jingle's post then? you can't possibly think that discussing policy or w/e is WORSE than discussing sex toys in a scum hunting perspective. And yes, I am using the fact that he and Evul to shit up the thread somewhat as a reason for my suspicion. Not only is he not scum hunting/discussing the game, he is also posting filler which makes it harder to read the thread.

Okay, this makes sense and I agree.

First off, I strongly disagree with that the part you are refering to is based upon OMGUS. Instead of actually quoting what in the post you dislike you simply say it sucks... Way to go! Also you are spamming your own OMGUS at me, Still you are using my so called ''OMGUS'' against Jingle as an argument against me. Nice contradiction here.

Also what is your stance on Jingle? You've been wish-washy like hell on that...




All in the same post -.-

On July 05 2012 23:08 JingleHell wrote:
I do wish we could stop looking at Lazer's first post as "contradictory". Actually, for that matter, I wish we would leave alone all the initial burst of posting, the entire purpose is to get people talking, which was accomplished. Frankly, I don't think Lazer's first post felt scummy, because while it was only very basic, it was an effort to do the same thing I accomplished by bringing up sex toys. I've just discovered that something meaningless works better.

Instead of cluttering things up, I'll just say that Bass and Lazer's analysis on TMG sounds good, and I'll be interested in seeing what he has to say.

On July 08 2012 13:05 BassInSpace wrote:
Regarding Release:

If anything made him look fishy to me, it's his willingness to jump on Lazer (again) based on what is obviously a typo (to put it in Release's own words against Lazer awhile ago, "grasping at straws"), and the vote switch to Jingle without much explanation at all. The post he made listing detective claims could also have been an attempt at making a useful post without actually being all that useful, but this could be stretching it too far.

On July 08 2012 15:10 BassInSpace wrote:



After having said you didn't feel that Jingle was scum:

On July 08 2012 15:17 Hapahauli wrote:


Release... this is just awful. No mafia in their right mind would ever claim blue int his situation (if they did, they're auto-dead next day). What's the point of even drawing suspicion at JieXian? There is none, and you've been doing nothing but pointing fingers the entire night cycle.

FOS: Release

On July 08 2012 16:35 Hapahauli wrote:
My FOS on Release

A quick case on Release - I find his current gameplay very different from his typical town-aligned gameplay, which is well established from three newbie mafia games:
Newbie Mafia XIV
Newbie Mafia XVI
Newbie Mafia XVIII

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I'll give a brief overview of his playstyle in each game. I also highly recommend skimming through his past games to get a feel for his posting - it doesn't take much reading to realize how different he is as a townie. (all underlined words are hyperlinks for referencing).

Newbie Mafia XIV
On page 1 of his filter, you'll notice long posts that take clear stances on players early in the game. He never appears wishy-washy or unsure of himself. THIS POST sums up this game's town-alligned Release very well - forceful, looking to pick confrontations, and actively builds cases (even if this particular case was against the town doctor xD).

Newbie Mafia XVI
Release doesn't build any large cases in the early parts of this game, but is very forceful about his opinions. He locks on to one player (Grush) early on in the game and grills him relentlessly. However, he's very willing to change his vote multiple times at a whim. He's extremely reckless and not afraid to forcefully point fingers/generate discussion. Look at THIS POST for another example of forceful townie Release.

Newbie Mafia XVIII
Release gets killed by Mafia N1 here, so there's not much to go on. Do note that his tone is forceful throughout his filter, he never summaryposts, and never tries to out several people in a single post. His post count/activity here is much lower due to a busy schedule, something he mentions after death.

Release Townie Meta Summary
- Release always accuses 1 player at a time. He locks on to someone and grills them forcefully, actively seeking confrontation. He'll switch votes at whim if he sees other suspicious behavior.
- Release rarely, if ever, attacks cases on players he's not pursuing. Release really locks on to his cases and tries to build it.
- Release is always at the center of the controversy.
- Release is not afraid to defend himself against accusations.

---

Release Day 1 Lynch

Release in this current game has been very different. Just take a look at some of these quotes:
One thing that I really fucked up in my case against JingleHell was not looking for Mafia motive. I had evidence of scummy play, but did not have a story and mafia-motive behind actions and behaviors. I will be clearly identifying motives in this analysis

First, Release calls JingleHell's post suspicious after defending him against Lazer in his previous post. In addition, he doesn't take any forceful opinions. Note he doesn't accuse Jingle ("This is kind of interesting"), and takes a very unclear stance on TMG26. Townie Release would have been throwing around votes based on past meta. Release is trying to spread suspicion against multiple players while pushing a bad case against LazerMonkey. The push in itself isn't bad, but spreading suspicions is pro-mafia.

Next, Release acknowledges my case on hopeless as "fairly good," then continues his vote for LazerMonkey for unclear reasons. This is consistent with a Release who wants to put himself in good standing with the author of a case against fellow mafia, but instead tries to push a townie lynch. Release is keeping his options open and remaining unclear - a mafia trait.

Release's post just before the D1 lynch. Pre-lynch panic, combined with outing THREE players in one post for unclear reasons. This is wildly inconsistent with Townie Jingle, and it is in mafia's best interest to spread baseless suspicion.

When its clear that Hopeless is going to hang, Release covers his bases before the D1 mod post. Note that he acknowledges a legitimate suspicion against Hopeless, yet does not change his vote. He also outs 3 players in this post again.

---

Release: Night 1

You're going to see Release make a huge gear-switch after Hopeless1der gets lynched. He tries to further justify his suspicions against LazerMonkey for vague reasons (and ignores me the MULTIPLE TIMES I call him out for it). Instead, he tries to establish a friendly rapport with the town, while pointing fingers and generally not doing anything.

Release first addresses why he voted for Lazer. Look at the complete lack of reasoning. In my counter argument, I proved all of these false.

Despite still having HEAVY suspicions of Lazer, Release agrees with my case on Jingle then promptly outs YourHarry and Mackin for scummy behavior. His reasons are vague, unclear, and this is not the forceful Release in his townie meta. Release is trying to stirr up suspicions and create unrest.

Release outs two MORE players in his next post.

Release has a sudden change of heart against Lazer and jumps on the Jingle bandwagon (before Evul claimed DT and verified Jingle as townie). Release finds a better angle and jumps on the mislynch in an attempt to avoid suspicion

Summaryposting in an attempt to gain rapport with the town.

Sudden voteswitch to lazer for a single line after N1. This is an effort to create further confusion, knowing that JingleHell is on pace to be lynched.


Release spends the rest of the night (and the opening of D2) posting summary and one-liners.

In conclusion, Release's behavior this game is very different from his Town-alligned meta in a mafia-oriented way. Furthermore, clear and logical mafia motivations can be derived from all of his actions.

I highly suspect Release to be Mafia.

On July 08 2012 10:00 Release wrote:
I've caught up in this thread and have to say that i no longer believe Lazer to be scum.

so far, Hapa has been very good on fighting against scummy plays, making his analyses and i would hope that others follow suit. Especially jingle.

On July 08 2012 16:35 Hapahauli wrote:
My FOS on Release

A quick case on Release - I find his current gameplay very different from his typical town-aligned gameplay, which is well established from three newbie mafia games:
Newbie Mafia XIV
Newbie Mafia XVI
Newbie Mafia XVIII

---

I'll give a brief overview of his playstyle in each game. I also highly recommend skimming through his past games to get a feel for his posting - it doesn't take much reading to realize how different he is as a townie. (all underlined words are hyperlinks for referencing).

Newbie Mafia XIV
On page 1 of his filter, you'll notice long posts that take clear stances on players early in the game. He never appears wishy-washy or unsure of himself. THIS POST sums up this game's town-alligned Release very well - forceful, looking to pick confrontations, and actively builds cases (even if this particular case was against the town doctor xD). I had a ton of time in this game. Not nearly as much in this game

Newbie Mafia XVI
Release doesn't build any large cases in the early parts of this game, but is very forceful about his opinions. He locks on to one player (Grush) early on in the game and grills him relentlessly. However, he's very willing to change his vote multiple times at a whim. He's extremely reckless and not afraid to forcefully point fingers/generate discussion. Look at THIS POST for another example of forceful townie Release. again, a ton more time. So doesn't compare too well

Newbie Mafia XVIII
Release gets killed by Mafia N1 here, so there's not much to go on. Do note that his tone is forceful throughout his filter, he never summaryposts, and never tries to out several people in a single post. His post count/activity here is much lower due to a busy schedule, something he mentions after death. one, i mentioned that before the game, and two, i was sheeping BioSC a little before i turned on him (without posting unfortunately). three, that game was so inactive that reading hardly took my time and i had spare time to re-read and whatnot

Release Townie Meta Summary
- Release always accuses 1 player at a time. He locks on to someone and grills them forcefully, actively seeking confrontation. He'll switch votes at whim if he sees other suspicious behavior. sounds like bait to do something which you could later call wishy-washy. Lose-lose situation for me huh? Same thing you did to jingle. "does your wife know you're cheating on here?"
- Release rarely, if ever, attacks cases on players he's not pursuing. Release really locks on to his cases and tries to build it. it's called tunneling and it almost got someone (ha236) to give up when i actually thought he was town. I have been advised not to overdo this many times
- Release is always at the center of the controversy. when i have the time
- Release is not afraid to defend himself against accusations. when i have the time

---

Release Day 1 Lynch

Release in this current game has been very different. Just take a look at some of these quotes:
One thing that I really fucked up in my case against JingleHell was not looking for Mafia motive. I had evidence of scummy play, but did not have a story and mafia-motive behind actions and behaviors. I will be clearly identifying motives in this analysis

First, Release calls JingleHell's post suspicious after defending him against Lazer in his previous post. In addition, he doesn't take any forceful opinions. Note he doesn't accuse Jingle ("This is kind of interesting"), and takes a very unclear stance on TMG26. Townie Release would have been throwing around votes based on past meta. Release is trying to spread suspicion against multiple players while pushing a bad case against LazerMonkey. The push in itself isn't bad, but spreading suspicions is pro-mafia. i have never, ever, used meta as a means of supporting my votes. also, it's called fuck TMG, we have bigger problems to deal with. But saying it like that gives me the "fuck the town" attitude because people were seriously considering TMG. I didn't accuse Jingle because as you can clearly see in my second paragraph, i still think Lazer is the far more scummy player

Next, Release acknowledges my case on hopeless as "fairly good," then continues his vote for LazerMonkey for unclear reasons. This is consistent with a Release who wants to put himself in good standing with the author of a case against fellow mafia, but instead tries to push a townie lynch. Release is keeping his options open and remaining unclear - a mafia trait. unclear? Deceitful. Aka the first post and the bringing up of sex toys as a legitimate reason of scumminess. i repeated that quite a few times actually. And i acknolwedged your case. Your case against hope had nothing to do with my case against Lazer.

Release's post just before the D1 lynch. Pre-lynch panic, combined with outing THREE players in one post for unclear reasons. This is wildly inconsistent with Townie Jingle, and it is in mafia's best interest to spread baseless suspicion.
because everyone is going to take my post seriously. Lazer for obvious reasons. Jingle and Harry for their "OMGUS that was actually serious" and subsequent reconciliation. I thought this was too pretentious to be townie.

When its clear that Hopeless is going to hang, Release covers his bases before the D1 mod post. Note that he acknowledges a legitimate suspicion against Hopeless, yet does not change his vote. He also outs 3 players in this post again. Why should i change my vote? He is going to hang. In fact, leaving the opportunity for someone to jump of the Hope train means that we have caught 2 scum. It's something i did in another game too: i was in the majority, i jumped off and put a random vote, begging for someone to do a last minute switch. You didn't read that in your "meta analysis" did you? and i out 3 players. Just that it was 3 different players. I already outed 2 of them now didn't I

---

Release: Night 1

You're going to see Release make a huge gear-switch after Hopeless1der gets lynched. He tries to further justify his suspicions against LazerMonkey for vague reasons (and ignores me the MULTIPLE TIMES I call him out for it). Instead, he tries to establish a friendly rapport with the town, while pointing fingers and generally not doing anything.

Release first addresses why he voted for Lazer. Look at the complete lack of reasoning. In my counter argument, I proved all of these false. i read your counter arguement, didn't agree with it. simple.

Despite still having HEAVY suspicions of Lazer, Release agrees with my case on Jingle then promptly outs YourHarry and Mackin for scummy behavior. His reasons are vague, unclear, and this is not the forceful Release in his townie meta. Release is trying to stirr up suspicions and create unrest. he had a "fuck town attitude" everyone saw it. Already said your harry twice now. Your using this as reasoning against me is seriously shit. Mackin was lurker. Telling him to speak up. You make it sound like i have outed 9 people, when in reality, it's 5. Sounds bad but hardly as bad as 9.

Release outs two MORE players in his next post. unless i'm mistaken, that quote belongs to jingle. So ONE more player. you say 11, i say 6. this is fun

Release has a sudden change of heart against Lazer and jumps on the Jingle bandwagon (before Evul claimed DT and verified Jingle as townie). Release finds a better angle and jumps on the mislynch in an attempt to avoid suspicion and at this point, i suspected that you were the godfather trying to buss jingle. Imagine my surprise when khorrus got modkilled. Good on fighting? Hapa has been the GODFATHER

Summaryposting in an attempt to gain rapport with the town. I was getting clarification for who was actually being suspected.

Sudden voteswitch to lazer for a single line after N1. This is an effort to create further confusion, knowing that JingleHell is on pace to be lynched. i wanted to get clarification. a vote is the best way to do it


Release spends the rest of the night (and the opening of D2) posting summary and one-liners. yeah cause i'm bus. believe it if you want. Disregard it otherwise. And that "obvious" slip about jiexian, i just used your reasoning against you and poof, no more. And how about you: I'm sure you read my first game with mordanis no? YOu make this huge ass case on me, highlight mafi-orientated in red and refuse to vote me. In other words, testing the waters. You only voted me upon when prompted to. This is exactly how mordanis (scum) played against me in the other game.

In conclusion, Release's behavior this game is very different from his Town-alligned meta in a mafia-oriented way. Furthermore, clear and logical mafia motivations can be derived from all of his actions.
clear and logical mafia motivation can be derived from almost any actions. I've done that many times. People don't doubt you because you were so "good" in your analysis against hope, who helped you tons.

I highly suspect Release to be Mafia.

On July 09 2012 04:45 Hapahauli wrote:
For added emphasis to my post above (re: Release's
Breadcrumb (click!))

Release (who claims he's Town alligned) supported my case against JingleHell because the godfather(me) was pushing for the lynch. Wat.

On July 09 2012 05:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Of course I didn't pursue Jingle further - Jingle is a confirmed townie.

On July 09 2012 05:23 Lazermonkey wrote:
The only thing that makes me think that Hapa just MIGHT be scum is that they havn't conceded yet, which they probebly would have if they were among Zen/Release/Mackin. But everything else points towards him being scum, Release. Do you really think that a player who not only pushed a player that would hypothetically be his scum bro and even got him lynched and did this when his other bro was in serious danger of getting modkilled?

Release, do you not think it's more likely that the last scum is Zen_Man? Or prehaps Mackin?

On July 09 2012 06:07 YourHarry wrote:


Release, can you explain this? Hapahauli posted that minutes before your reply - well into Day 2 and after evul cleared Jingle.

On July 13 2012 13:22 JieXian wrote:


Good job evul ^^

Bass i supposed you killed me because of my mackin townie read? hahaha wrong choice man

and good play bass. your filter looks scummy now based on meta but thing is I never read it before while I was in game :D

Don't know what'll happen to my reads if I were still in game and went through your filter

and marv that jinglehell one was really funny hahahahaha

And Release, so what kind of hallucinogens have you been using this past week?